World Republic vs. The Imperium

Meh the reason for the war will be long lost memory - what matters is the outcome which is sadly also in the hands of our dear friend Kenzu, so far hes just proven that our reasons are justified.

Let me spell it out for you really clearly so there's no confusion at all-

Our beef is with Kenzu and a select few others in WR, we do not like the way he runs his alliance, we do not like the way he deals with people who arent in his alliance, we do not like the way he behaves on and off the forums and my personal nerve centre - we do not like his policies which involve hypocrisy

If his dealing with us from the onset had been more favourable than this wouldn't have occurred, as it did this is just the inevitable conclusion to a sequence of events that have taken place since the arrival of The Commonwealth and even longer before hand for The Company. Who started it is of little importance - its why its happening that of significance!

This is a war spawning from one man's inability to judge others character and deal with them accordingly. Kenzu made a mistake and instead of holding his hands up and biting the bullet at the time he fought himself into a corner. Now people can argue otherwise or support him or whatever, the fact is hes there and we are coming for him. My fellow High Council members are all too keen to offer Kenzu one last way in a bid to preserve a thread of mercy and relations between our two alliances.

His incessant denial of guilt and constant verbal attacks are just loosing him more and more sympathisers and eventually we will show no mercy. So either come to the negotiation table admitting your wrongs and give in to all our demands or fight with honour to what will most likely be the death of your alliance. But for goodness sake whatever you choose do it with dignity and like a man!

PS- In the entire history of The Commonwealth there has never been a case where we have fired the very first shot so Disco you could be wrong

Sandwalker wrote:So when do the admins warn themselves and everyone else that they're offtopic?

When some certain person comes home in the evening after leaving the house over 12.5 hours ago and noticing how much things went off topic after my post.

I wrote a paragraph about what I thought both sides did to make sure this war happens. But decided to delete it, so I'll just write this.

ian wrote:So - before the final decision is made by The Imperium collective regarding your and World Republic's fate - as a final act of sportsmanship i ll be happy to ask you - is there anything more you d like to say/ appeal to The Imperium Memberbase before they make their decision? Remember at the end of the day - the opinions of the rest of the server count for minimal currently, since honestly the rest of the server can't influence the current situation to any great extent at all - so its The Imperium Memberbase your going to have to seek to convince...

To me this post by ian was approximately equivalent to this:
"Lets continue this talk a bit more until we finish our preparations, then we'll strike you anyway"
To me there's not a hint of peace offering especially after the rounds of provocative statements made by said side before that post.
Being in kenzus position at that moment, I would have also attacked TIE (whether or not I would have gotten into the same situation at all is a matter of a different discussion)

Anyways, both sides screwed up thinking they are holding the moral high ground.
Nuff said, lets fight.
THIS IS SPARTAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!

and PS: actually hai shulud, once in dune you guys massed Mass brutality before we attacked any of you , so yes you did fire off the first shot at least once

Hmm yeah ur right admin, ok i take it back we have only done it once but they had it coming Also that was a good war, some hefty firepower on both sides which made it a lot of fun.

PS- Hold on a sec admin wasnt there some sort of issue with someone supported by you being too heavy with the farming? cant really remember why that one happened

@ Disco, pm sent

@ Kenzu, please, honestly, please. STOP with the R/L comparissons. Leave R/L politics in R/L. This is a game, I come here to get away from shitheads like you who spew that crap day in and day out.

@ Admin, a split would be nice, R/L politics have no place in here. Nice to see you defending your brother and his alliance again, tho you did throw in that one liner to save face, something about not ending up in this situation to begin with. Well that is the entire point isnt it?

Oh, and I never claimed to have a "Moral High Ground". That is where alot of misconception comes in. My stance was Kenzu picked a fight. We offered him several chances and he spat most of them back in our faces all the while telling flat out lies, twisting the truth, slandering, and just being an annoying prick. There is no Moral High Ground. We are just going to kick his ass. I have no concern for him or his account. My only concern is for the rest of WR.

Kenzu PUBLICLY went about stirring trouble. Why have NONE of his supporters addressed that? None of you would be the least bit upset if an alliance leader mass messaged 90% of your alliance looking for spies? Then OPENLY admits he was doing it to stir internal conflict and breed paranoia. Then he keeps talking out both sides of his mouth. On one hand he condems anyone who "Declares/starts a war without 48 hrs notice" yet he masses Ian with no warning. He claims you should nurture and care for smaller, newer players. Says you should show them a better way, YET he masses Tackless shadow into the ground WITHOUT EVER even attempting any diplomacy. When Tackless was a lone defender, teaching a mouthy attacker a lesson. A mouthy WR attacker at that. Why will no Kenzu supporter address that issue??? Shall we continue??? Lets see, Kenzu publicly post a "code of conduct" stating that no small or newer players should be assasinated, sabbed, or destroyed/massed without cause, YET HE HIMSELF gives a member of his HC permission to assassinate a standing recently rebuilt Defense for the purpose of profit. No Kenzu supporter addresses that point.

Plain and simple truth. Kenzu's mouth, and his attitude brought war on WR. Kenzu's mouth and attitude keeps WR in this war. If Kenzu doesn't do something about his mouth and attitude, the the whole of WR are going to end up suffering greatly, and for what??????

So Kenzu can be stupid? Can be mouthy when he himself admitted he was wrong? Can have an unneeded and unwanted attitude that's costing his alliance and its members dearly?

I would like to point out I agree with Hai-Shulud here with one exception.

Hai-Shulud wrote:Meh the reason for the war will be long lost memory - what matters is the outcome which is sadly also in the hands of our dear friend Kenzu, so far hes just proven that our reasons are justified.

Let me spell it out for you really clearly so there's no confusion at all-

Our beef is with Kenzu and a select few others in WR, we do not like the way he runs his alliance, we do not like the way he deals with people who arent in his alliance, we do not like the way he behaves on and off the forums and my personal nerve centre - we do not like his policies which involve hypocrisy

If his dealing with us from the onset had been more favourable than this wouldn't have occurred, as it did this is just the inevitable conclusion to a sequence of events that have taken place since the arrival of The Commonwealth and even longer before hand for The Company. Who started it is of little importance - its why its happening that of significance!

This is a war spawning from one man's inability to judge others character and deal with them accordingly. Kenzu made a mistake and instead of holding his hands up and biting the bullet at the time he fought himself into a corner. Now people can argue otherwise or support him or whatever, the fact is hes there and we are coming for him. My fellow High Council members are all too keen to offer Kenzu one last way in a bid to preserve a thread of mercy and relations between our two alliances.

His incessant denial of guilt and constant verbal attacks are just loosing him more and more sympathisers and eventually we will show no mercy. So either come to the negotiation table admitting your wrongs and give in to all our demands or fight with honour to what will most likely be the death of your alliance. But for goodness sake whatever you choose do it with dignity and like a man!

I would change the italicized part to read

So either be a man and admit your wrongs and, act to repair them. Send a representative in your stead if you feel it is a communications error or that its personal hatred or a grudge against you. Whatever you do, think about your alliance, its members, and its future. If you choose to fight then do so with honor and dignity. At the end of the day, you know same as I do that you and WR will be defeated. Its just how much punishment you want WR to take for your actions and transgressions.

On a side note, and while it is not meant as a threat, I'm sure it will be taken as one, the longer you wait, the larger the waves of attacks against WR will become. If you drag this out long enough then YES ever account in WR will be effected, no matter the size or time ingame. This is war, and war has casualties.

On another side note, I have asked for many days now for some form of a diplomatic contact other then the fence post known as Kenzu. As of yet it has been to no avail. I have terms for ending the war, or for protecting the weak, meager, new, small, and those who know not of Kenzu's short comings, or do not agree with the actions of their leader, but remain loyal to their family/alliance. Its hard to help people who will not help themselves. Heck, I wish Disco would step up to the plate and be given power and authority within WR. He can be talked to. He can be reasoned with. He is active ingame and inforums, and he has honor. It was displayed in his open thread in the War section of forums, and in his actions in the fight.

@SA47 - PM replied to. Though a WR member, I speak for myself. I do not speak for WR.

Special Agent 47 wrote:Well that is the entire point isnt it?

not really

well in the end when kenzu agreed with everything we actually wanted to let him get away with it and i'm not lying about it .

but then he decided to say some things we didn't like at all. he was in a weak position he knew that but still he decided to get us guys pissed off

souldog wrote:well in the end when kenzu agreed with everything we actually wanted to let him get away with it and i'm not lying about it .

but then he decided to say some things we didn't like at all. he was in a weak position he knew that but still he decided to get us guys pissed off

Let me remind you.
When it was clear that you will destroy WR if I dont admit that I have spies in TIE, Obviously I would admit everything if you let WR go.
In a post I wrote that I admit I have spies and that I would admit anything to save WR, TIE leaders have even told me to remove the second part of the sentence, which I have done. Later I have received a paragraph of text written by ian, which I should post to make my apology public. (His paragraph of text was the apology I was supposed to make).

Reminds me of show trials in dictatorships.
"I admit I am a spy of CIA and I was doing sabotage against my motherland"
=> He will be executed
(Bur if he didnt admit, his family would be executed too)

Before I was able to post the apology (ian wanted to rethink it), I have been told that the apology is useless, because people will know that I apologised because to save WR and it would show TIE in a bad light and WR in a good one (obviously).

They decided to use a different approach. (The other ultimatums)

Vesper wrote:is the fact that Kenzu attempted the attack on Ian first being ignored? Or how WR is claimed to be the largest alliance a few weeks ago?

We claimed to be the most populous alliance, in terms of membersize, not in terms of power.
https://aderanwars.forumotion.com/general-discussion-f1/world-republic-bigger-than-all-top-10-alliances-combined-t790.htm
Here my quote "World Republic has grown to a membersize of 100 members!"

Disco_Vader wrote:I don't think anyone believes we are at war *because* of Kenzu attacking TIE. I think it's pretty clear that TIE in general has taken issue with Kenzu (and by extension WR) -- and this friction has led directly to the war. I don't think anyone thinks the war could have been avoided if Kenzu waited. TIE has made it clear that they have been very anxious to get their hands on Kenzu.

You are right

1) Afterall it was not me who was threatening war all the time.

2) World Republic agreed to TIE demands 2 times and they were always asking for more

3) TIE made unreasonable demands, like for example asking WR to pay compensation to players who massed our members first, and/or breaking peace treaties and then mass our members

Korruption, was an agressor who massed 2 of our members, thus he was not eligible to be paid reparations, only eligible to be punished.
Robert, became an agressor 2 times breaking a peace treaty a massing our member. Not eligible for compensation
Tackless Shadow, was an agressor who massed 2 of our members, thus not eligible to be paid reparations, only eligible to be punished
Cicero (Compensation would amount to 82.5 million) The 200.000.000 kuwal I offered would have covered this.


4) TIE was making a constant buildup and bragging about how they will smash WR

5) I was always making attempts at peace. TIE would not accept peace with WR unless we gave in to demands which would enslave us.

6) Special Agent 47 said: "You have a war comming"
https://aderanwars.forumotion.com/alliance-wars-treaties-f4/for-lasting-peace-t925.htm#7929
I, Keinutnai have proposed to fight ian 1 on 1, to save World Republic and keep TIE not involved in this conflict. He didnt agree with it.

7) ian declared on World Republic on Oct 12, 2009 10:02 pm

War was inevitable, because even though World Republic made it clear that she wants peace, TIE made it clear that there will be war.

What souldog says is true, we actually had decided to not go to war with WR, any of WR.

Everyone was backing down, relaxing. Ian and Reaper had all but agreed on peace with WR the night before. Then Kenzu makes a thread.
https://aderanwars.forumotion.com/alliance-wars-treaties-f4/for-lasting-peace-t925.htm

That was the final straw. The go for war was never 100% given until you tried to mass Ian, but that thread made by Kenzu made it go from 0 to 90 in an instant.

We, here in TIE, know it's far easier to be destructive than constructive, that's why we held up for so long on our decision. And that's why some members of WR have defenses right now (profitably massable defenses).

well if he doesn't believe no problem for me i was disappointed when ian and reaper told me that we wouldn't go to war but it would save the game and wr.

but then you made that thread then ian and reaper turned around 180 degrees.

and you can't deny you did the first mass in this war if you deny that well then it's not realy worth talking to you. you probably will give a twist to your explanation like we are used too of you .

well kenzu i hope you van hit a 24/7 protection. or me smart try negotiating don't accept our terms ask a ceasefire of a few hours or days. discuss what you want and we want if you think some demands are foolish don't accept them just be smart stay calm and try to talk in a nice way will help alot

Kenzu, we can solve every bit of this if you really want to. We can dissect each piece of this one at a time and decide who was truly at fault for each instance, and we can see how your score card measures up against everyone else.

Just like it can be proven 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt if the MSN logs are real of fake, the ones from your spy.

The question is, is that really what you want?

and

Would you be man enough to finally man up and admit what you did wrong, where you did wrong, and actually change this time. Or continue to claim you are totally innocent and its always the other guys fault?

I personally hate the victim card, only weak people use it.

And before you even try it, Yeah I will do all of the above right beside you, and I have never claimed I did no wrong

I never met an alliance leader who didn't care for his members the way you do. This war isn't against WR, its against you and how you lead your alliance. Sadly seems all of WR are eventually going to get punished because of you, and your stubborn bullheaded pride and stupidity.

For a further note
Posted on Oct 27, which was 9 days ago

Special Agent 47 wrote:

Kenzu wrote:What do you want to tell them?

If I had wanted to talk to a fence post Kenzu, I would go out to the pasture behind the house.

I want to speak to the rest of the governing force in WR. About many things. I don't want to waste my time chasing ghosts. Either they will come forward in an act of diplomacy, or they will not. The choice is theirs.


And FTR, I would most definitely expect them to tell you exactly what is discussed. Its not that I have anything to hide, or some secret strategy, or seek to cause internal strife like you attempted. I just want to talk to someone who can speak clearly, and doesn't back up or change every few minutes. Someone who can remain rational and think about more then themselves. In other words, anyone but you.

An in game or in forum PM would be just fine. I just want to get a conversation started. If there is no cause for one, well that is acceptable too.

Not a single HC member has stepped forward, as a matter of fact no member has. I wonder if that will change if pressure is applied to more then just Kenzu and the few others.

still waiting on a person from WR that speaks for behalf of WR. I cant really consider Kenzu as a leader of anything at this point.

~ Kenzu got WR into a war. Safe to say that if Kenzu was not leader of WR there wouldnt be any conflict what so ever.
~ Kenzu has done lots of great counter attacks on TIE so far. o wait PSYCH!! Kenzu has been smashed to hell at start of war along with any potential threat and then TIE got so bored of the war already that we pretty much stopped hitting WR.
~ Any intelligent leader would have admitted by now that he got rocked in this war and admitted defeat. But we aren't talking about a "intelligent" leader we are talking about Kenzu who speaks more bs then politicians.

Okay Kenzu every1 that reads this forum knows you put alot into your ego and dignity. Wouldn't it make more sense for you to admit defeat before TIE masses all of WR?


I feel this quote fits Kenzu
“I really thought we'd win that”
Adolf Hitler quotes (German Chancellor, leader of the Nazi party, 1889-1945)

We all know how that ended. Seems kenzu is heading to a similar path.

Kenzu and sara answrer back tonite with the help of rflash and danuboy

superkingtsob wrote:Kenzu and sara answrer back tonite with the help of rflash and danuboy

What do you need an answer for?

Hm, I think he meant you already gave that answer, in the form of massing.

now it just doomed to infinity this war will never end lol

Can't we have a poll who is enjoying this war and who isn't and draw the boundaries along those lines? It looks like souldog is enjoying the war, even though he keeps bouncing up and down the ranking list.
But seriously, there seem to be people from TIE who are willing to talk peace. All of TIE is more open and honest about the who what and why's of the war than in the time running up to the war.
I don't understand why WR does not come forward to talk. It does not have to be public and may even better not be. And if everyone involved refrains from fingerpointing, accusations and threats you may even succeed.
If it's not about winning the argument with words or force of arms, but about finding a solution all can live with.
I think the "for lasting peace" thread started OK, but went wrong when accusations were fired.

after last night jiro peace is very far awy i keps bouncing because simply buying and selling attack weapons now it's not the case just lost some pop :p 1.8-1.9 mil :p

so of course i'm enjoying it i have nothing to loose now :p take your swords and axes and lets do some damage

I'll take my chain mail and a fast crossbow

Icewind Dale style im gonna go with a bastard sword +3 and boots of speed ill see you on the dancefloor

What? What what! Did someone say dance floor? Butterfly collars: UP!

[Disco_Vaderians are spontaneously kickin' it to Sly & the Family Stone's "Dance to the Music"]

My people change the track to - Sister Sledge "He's the Greatest Dancer"

Shove that in your hot pants Disco

Rollerblades - check
Flares - Check
Starting to spin Mirror Ball - Check

Aaaaaalright and now watch this

You want to talk about peace?

I know that World Republic members would like peace, but it has to be a lasting peace. It cannot be a peace where TIE will wait a month, make a new ultimatum and force WR to war again.

If we have peace, TIE shouldn't abuse its power. They should not make unreasonable demands and they shouldn't go to war with someone, just because they got farmed by that person.

World Republic wants a lasting peace.

Does TIE want a lasting peace too?

Puuuuuuuttt you blow the moment like 2 days ago

In the last 2 days, TIE members have been massed:

Blackeagle,
Mitola,
Souldog,
superkingstop,

TIE lost over 6.100.000 miners, workers and other military units

World Republic and our allies lost 75.000 - 125.000 units.

Total damage inflicted on TIE was:

yesterday: 608-640 billion kuwal
today: 130.5 billion kuwal
In total 750 billion kuwal (in the last 2 days)

TIE lost a value between 738 and 770 billion kuwal
WR spent in total a value between 45 and 60 billion kuwal
Our allies spent a value of 50 billion kuwal

The value refers to all repairs, untrained units, attack turns, training and other expenses related to massing.
1 AT valued at 800.000 kuwal
1 UU valued at 100.000 kuwal