World Republic vs. The Imperium

ian wrote:Incidentally - 2billion? I don't think anyone in the imperium's ever complained about your farming for 2billion with a 300million defence (i sure as hell have never done so). What we do complain about, though, is this sort of hits which you only get a relatively minor amount of profit from (100 - 150million), which cause significant damage to The Imperium (several hundred million repair costs and defence super's worth of losses) and which thus each hit in many cases amounted to more than 1billion's worth of resources wiped out from The Imperium per hit.

In peace time - where The Imperium could actively increase its defence forces without taking undue risk... i wouldn't have a problem generally provided your hits were reasonable. In war-time where increasing defences is a massive drain AND a massive risk - that sort of conduct is out of line.

Lol .... that's a good one.

You call 100-150 million net profit for an attack MINOR

If you take higher then average player .... which would mean 500 to 700k army ..... you will see that his income is between 15 and 25 mil / turn.

So if this player gets a couple of "minor" hits he will DOUBLE his income. Now if 2x your income is minor to you I would love to see what do you consider major.

Also .... get your math in order. "Several hundred million" losses from repair and super losses NEVER happened. Several would mean at least 3, but in general means at least 5. Me and danu were farming for most of the time with 200-300 mil strikes. So, 30k defense supers with no bonus to defense and with a modest 10% tech would be 30,000*8,000*1.1=264 mil ... about the maximum we would hit. Now for 30k weapons 1 point is 6.9 mil so 8*6.9=55 mil repair costs. Super losses would be maximum 50-60, so 60*270,000=16 mil. So you NEVER even had 100 mil losses in a normal attack .... so 'several' is quite a big fat lie.

rflash wrote:First of all increasing defense is NOT the only way to stop farming. You can use relaxed, you can use a higher realm alert level or you can log in more often.

Second, you know perfectly well that less then 25% of your members follow those guidelines.

Third, you broke your own doctrine .... after being massed you went to about 160% of your previous defense.

Forth, you came here with some ideas from dune that don't apply. Increasing your defense isn't stupid at all in this game and plenty of your members did it. Massing with a strike below the defense or very close is very costly and after you have massed someone this way if you do the math you will see that the defender lost just a bit more then the attacker or if there is a bigger difference between the defense and the strike the attacker will lose more then the defender. Furthermore the attacker has lost 3 to 5 days worth of STs. So if you don't have other easy kills on your account .... like 3.2 mil miners for example .... massing is much less effective then in other games.

Fifth, increasing the defense alliance wide is a good move because of the high unit losses when massing. So if someone started with 1 bil strike if your alliance has ~20% defense increase he will mass at least 1 less person until his strike drops quite low.

Your right reducing farming can be achieved by those purposes you highlighted out. However this merely reinforces my point - your farming of the imperium whether or not you intended it, was having a very real effect of aiding The Imperium's enemy.

If you farmed The Imperium - that kuwal is lost to The Imperium and can't be used against World Republic.
If you kill Imperium resources - those resources are lost and can't be utilised against World Republic.
If you force Imperium members to resort to realm alert levels or motivation levels.... that also represents lost resources which can't be used against World Republic.

Considering it was only you and danuboy farming The Imperium.... asking you guys to back off wasn't exactly out of line.

Regarding the guidelines - what guidelines are you referring to? My post merely highlighted the cost required in increasing and supporting a defence increase. I actually agree with your maths regarding massings - i ve done my own workings out and reached a conclusion pretty much the same as yours. What we differ in is our interpretation of the correct action based upon those results.

You advocate that the larger your defence, the more costly and hard it will be for the enemy to mass it. You are very much right in this regard - for The Imperium to mass your 1.7billion defence will be very costly, and undoubtedly difficult. I very much doubt we ll manage to achieve even a 1 : 2 (our : yours) kill ratio in terms of kuwal damage. Thus - a massing of your account couldn't be done by some half-baked alliance - your pretty much immune to low and medium level players/ alliances due to the costs in terms of kuwal repair costs and UU losses - which will only be larger the larger the difference between your defence and their strike(s). So i agree 100% with your conclusion here.

However, you, or rather I - also have to consider what will happen IF a large defence, such as yours, is brought down. This would only be probable by a large/ strong alliance. In this instance therefore - the costs to bring your defence down may be high, but your losses will also be far heavier. The best example will be you vs. The Imperium - it may cost The Imperium heavily to kill your defence - but how many weeks worth of resources will it set you back by as an individual? On the other hand - it will probably set The Imperium back by less than 5-6 hours in repair costs (our combined income is 1.6billion+) - no more than 10hours at maximum.

As alliance leader.... i have 3 main objectives when it comes to setting policy during peace time, to ensure we are ready for war time:

1.) To ensure minimal losses to Commonwealth members individually when war breaks out. Being set back by anything more than a week i consider to be a failure (i know not all TC members follow this... and to be honest i need to crack down on this sort of thing after this war is over)

2.) To ensure minimal losses to The Commonwealth as a whole when we go to war. This can be achieved by ensuring point 1.

3.) To ensure maximum losses to The Enemy when they conduct offensive operations against The Commonwealth.

Its a balancing act - and i prefer to assume the worst. In this instance - the worst is that one day The Commonwealth will end up at war with an enemy who does have the will and capability to remove Commonwealth defences regardless of how high we build them. I d rather The Commonwealth have it defences easily removed - setting us back by no more than 7 days overall - than for us to have many weeks invested in our defences and to then loose them - setting us back by several weeks overall, and for some members months on end.

rflash wrote:Lol ..... the old tactic of divide et impera .... c'mon you are quite obvious, I thought you were smarter then that.

And in case you don't know what goes on inside your own alliance TIE had very clear plans to mass me and danuboy for farming and for some assassinations we didn't do but you conveniently put them on our backs. What you also suggested which wasn't true, but served you to make us the bad guys was the idea that WR was funding us to farm you which if you do a cold analysis of it anyone can see that is stupid as we gained enough from farming and all our hits have been profitable ones.

When you leave over 2 bil out with less then a 300 mil defense you are asking to be farmed. This is a war game and farming is a natural part of it, as you can see admin is even modifying the system in order to increase the farming in the game ..... because of the high repair costs farming is much less used then in other games.

It's so typical of Ian to come with some assumptions, call them facts and based on these "facts" promote his agenda.

We can have peace, but if you (ian) go to war with people who farm you because you aren't clever enough to build a proper defense, we will join the war.

Until now I have seen no intention of TIE to even think about peace.

When war is profitable, peace becomes a sacrifice.

Kenzu wrote:

rflash wrote:Lol ..... the old tactic of divide et impera .... c'mon you are quite obvious, I thought you were smarter then that.

And in case you don't know what goes on inside your own alliance TIE had very clear plans to mass me and danuboy for farming and for some assassinations we didn't do but you conveniently put them on our backs. What you also suggested which wasn't true, but served you to make us the bad guys was the idea that WR was funding us to farm you which if you do a cold analysis of it anyone can see that is stupid as we gained enough from farming and all our hits have been profitable ones.

When you leave over 2 bil out with less then a 300 mil defense you are asking to be farmed. This is a war game and farming is a natural part of it, as you can see admin is even modifying the system in order to increase the farming in the game ..... because of the high repair costs farming is much less used then in other games.

It's so typical of Ian to come with some assumptions, call them facts and based on these "facts" promote his agenda.

We can have peace, but if you (ian) go to war with people who farm you because you aren't clever enough to build a proper defense, we will join the war.

Until now I have seen no intention of TIE to even think about peace.

Screw it kenzu - you still haven't learnt have you? This war only started due to idiotic statements like that one above - taking a perfectly fair and open statement, and twisting it into something to suit your agenda. Did it actually occur to you that The Imperium might actually want to hit back at Rflash and Danuboy before considering peace with them? Thats why i asked if they were in World Republic - because if they were in WR, obviously considering peace with World Republic before striking back would not be viable. If they weren't - considering peace with World Republic *before* striking back at Rflash and Danuboy would be possible. Hence the question... it had nothing to do with divide and conquer, and everything to do with using the thing called the "brain".

As it is, screw it. I ve changed my mind - i ll be vetoing any attempt at peace before 2010 now. You want to try and turn a perfectly fair and reasonable post into some way of fitting your purpose... thats your call - obviously you haven't learnt anything whatsoever. I have no desire for peace with World Republic.

Just incase anyone missed the reason why Rflash and danuboy were asked to stop farming The Imperium or be considered entering the war, here they are:

- If they farmed The Imperium - that kuwal is lost to The Imperium and can't be used against World Republic.

- If they kill Imperium resources while farming - those resources are lost and can't be utilised against World Republic.

- If they force Imperium members to resort to realm alert levels or motivation levels.... that also represents lost resources which can't be used against World Republic.

- If the Imperium did as Rflash recommends - increasing our defences... these resources used to increase the defence (and their supporting elements - assassination and covert forces) can't be used to fund offensive operations against World Republic.

- If the Imperium did as Rflash recommends - increasing our defences (and their supporting elements - assassination and covert forces) while in a state of war - would be to increase the resources we stand to loose should World Republic attack The Imperium.

Now to put that into a couple of examples:

- 1billion kuwal farmed from Imperium ranks is 1billion less which can be used against World Republic/ to fund The Imperium's war efforts. Result: World Republic gets indirectly aided (it doesn't matter if the farmer intended to aid them or not - thats the end result!)

- If 100million kuwal damage is inflicted to a defence as a result of farming conducted against an Imperium member, thats 100milion kuwal less which can be used against World Republic. Result: World Republic gets indirectly aided (it doesn't matter if the farmer intended to aid them or not - thats the end result!)

- If a Imperium member generates 300million income less overnight due to being on realm alert level - thats 300million less (vs. if they weren't forced to go on realm alert level due to being farmed) that they can utilise against World Republic. Result: World Republic gets indirectly aided (it doesn't matter if the farmer intended to aid them or not - thats the end result!)

- If a Imperium member spends 10billion kuwal of resources on upgrading his defence (and their supporting elements - covert and assassination in order to prevent being profitably sabbed/ assassinated) thats 10billion less of resources which can be used in offensive purposes against World Republic. Result: World Republic gets indirectly aided (it doesn't matter if the farmer intended to aid them or not - thats the end result!)

- If a Imperium member increases his defence/ killable resources by 10billion kuwal's worth of resources - thats 10billion more kuwal's worth of resources which he stands to loose should World Republic attack. Thats 10billion more damage The Imperium risks loosing as a result of the farmer. Result: The Imperium's position becomes more compromised/ risky (it doesn't matter if the farmer intended to aid them or not - thats the end result!)

The Imperium put up with Rflash and danuboys farming of our ranks for 3 weeks while in war. We then finally tired of it and warned them that they were indirectly aiding the enemy - they continued to do so anyway. From the moment they were warned they knowingly and therefore willingly chose to do conduct which very significantly aided World Republic. Even then we issued a final warning that should they continue... they ll be massed.

They then decided to take matters into their own hands and strike first. Personally - had i been in their shoes i d have done exactly the same thing - so for taking the initiative i would like to congratulate them. But... thats The Imperium's reason for taking a limited-farming stance.

We don't mind reasonable farming of our ranks... but when its ongoing farming of our ranks which starts to cause severe impacts on the function of the war... its gone too far.

Now... would anyone seriously like to argue with the points above that 1billion kuwal lost from imperium ranks, is 1billion less kuwal able to be used against World Republic? Its not politics... its simple maths You can have a different view/ opinion of how The Imperium should have conducted its policies when faced with the above mathematical facts... but you can't deny the cold numbered logic behind The Imperium's wish to put an end to significant farming of our ranks while in war.

Seriously Ian, if you think that I will stop farming when I can make up to 5b a day from farming it means you have a problem.

And I farmed both WR and TIE. No one was privileaged. So stop making these long posts in which you say the same thing for dozens of times: WR, danuboy and rflash are bad guys and TIE are the good guys .

rflash wrote:

ian wrote:Incidentally - 2billion? I don't think anyone in the imperium's ever complained about your farming for 2billion with a 300million defence (i sure as hell have never done so). What we do complain about, though, is this sort of hits which you only get a relatively minor amount of profit from (100 - 150million), which cause significant damage to The Imperium (several hundred million repair costs and defence super's worth of losses) and which thus each hit in many cases amounted to more than 1billion's worth of resources wiped out from The Imperium per hit.

In peace time - where The Imperium could actively increase its defence forces without taking undue risk... i wouldn't have a problem generally provided your hits were reasonable. In war-time where increasing defences is a massive drain AND a massive risk - that sort of conduct is out of line.

Lol .... that's a good one.

You call 100-150 million net profit for an attack MINOR

If you take higher then average player .... which would mean 500 to 700k army ..... you will see that his income is between 15 and 25 mil / turn.

So if this player gets a couple of "minor" hits he will DOUBLE his income. Now if 2x your income is minor to you I would love to see what do you consider major.

Also .... get your math in order. "Several hundred million" losses from repair and super losses NEVER happened. Several would mean at least 3, but in general means at least 5. Me and danu were farming for most of the time with 200-300 mil strikes. So, 30k defense supers with no bonus to defense and with a modest 10% tech would be 30,000*8,000*1.1=264 mil ... about the maximum we would hit. Now for 30k weapons 1 point is 6.9 mil so 8*6.9=55 mil repair costs. Super losses would be maximum 50-60, so 60*270,000=16 mil. So you NEVER even had 100 mil losses in a normal attack .... so 'several' is quite a big fat lie.

That is to say you only had 1 attack on TIE. I personally was farmed more then 6 times during your vulturing so just me alone paid over 100mil. I had 1 of the lower incomes at the time. You farmed others much more heavily so i agree that hundreds of millions is fairly accurate.

Kenzu wrote:

rflash wrote:Lol ..... the old tactic of divide et impera .... c'mon you are quite obvious, I thought you were smarter then that.

And in case you don't know what goes on inside your own alliance TIE had very clear plans to mass me and danuboy for farming and for some assassinations we didn't do but you conveniently put them on our backs. What you also suggested which wasn't true, but served you to make us the bad guys was the idea that WR was funding us to farm you which if you do a cold analysis of it anyone can see that is stupid as we gained enough from farming and all our hits have been profitable ones.

When you leave over 2 bil out with less then a 300 mil defense you are asking to be farmed. This is a war game and farming is a natural part of it, as you can see admin is even modifying the system in order to increase the farming in the game ..... because of the high repair costs farming is much less used then in other games.

It's so typical of Ian to come with some assumptions, call them facts and based on these "facts" promote his agenda.

We can have peace, but if you (ian) go to war with people who farm you because you aren't clever enough to build a proper defense, we will join the war.

Until now I have seen no intention of TIE to even think about peace.

read the page 11.

danuboy wrote:Seriously Ian, if you think that I will stop farming when I can make up to 5b a day from farming it means you have a problem.

And I farmed both WR and TIE. No one was privileaged. So stop making these long posts in which you say the same thing for dozens of times: WR, danuboy and rflash are bad guys and TIE are the good guys .

Actually if anything my prior message kinda disproves your point about me suppossedly saying "danuboy and rflash are the bad guys" - unless i m mistaken i said i d have done the exact same thing as you 2 - if our roles were reversed

In other words, If i was only responsible for myself as an individual and was presented with the opportunity to farm lots from an alliance/ 2 alliances at war i d probably do so - and if someone threatened me i d *definately* farm them and probably resort to a preemptive strike when threatened (as i ve done in the past lol). So basically i d have done the exact same thing you 2 have done.

As an alliance leader, however, my responsibilities are not just to myself but my alliance. The Imperium is in a war... your farming was impacting that war. Something had to be done - in this case attempted diplomacy before resorting to force....

Don't for a minute think i m trying to make yourself and Rflash out as the bad guys - i m not. I m merely explaining the Imperium's position with regard to your farming, and our asking you to stop it.

You made your decision knowing the consequences it would yield - The Imperium made our decision regarding warning you guys - knowing the consequences/ risks that would yield. Now... can we just get along with the war? I have no wish to end up arguiing about who did this, why this was done etc... anymore to be honest - hence why i ve been quiet on the forum for the past several weeks mainly

As for World Republic being the bad guys.... lets not even reopen that discussion up again. I told Kenzu as far as i was concerned this war will wipe the slate clean once the war's resolved... so what is done is done, and need not be argued any further

Vesper wrote:

rflash wrote:

ian wrote:Incidentally - 2billion? I don't think anyone in the imperium's ever complained about your farming for 2billion with a 300million defence (i sure as hell have never done so). What we do complain about, though, is this sort of hits which you only get a relatively minor amount of profit from (100 - 150million), which cause significant damage to The Imperium (several hundred million repair costs and defence super's worth of losses) and which thus each hit in many cases amounted to more than 1billion's worth of resources wiped out from The Imperium per hit.

In peace time - where The Imperium could actively increase its defence forces without taking undue risk... i wouldn't have a problem generally provided your hits were reasonable. In war-time where increasing defences is a massive drain AND a massive risk - that sort of conduct is out of line.

Lol .... that's a good one.

You call 100-150 million net profit for an attack MINOR

If you take higher then average player .... which would mean 500 to 700k army ..... you will see that his income is between 15 and 25 mil / turn.

So if this player gets a couple of "minor" hits he will DOUBLE his income. Now if 2x your income is minor to you I would love to see what do you consider major.

Also .... get your math in order. "Several hundred million" losses from repair and super losses NEVER happened. Several would mean at least 3, but in general means at least 5. Me and danu were farming for most of the time with 200-300 mil strikes. So, 30k defense supers with no bonus to defense and with a modest 10% tech would be 30,000*8,000*1.1=264 mil ... about the maximum we would hit. Now for 30k weapons 1 point is 6.9 mil so 8*6.9=55 mil repair costs. Super losses would be maximum 50-60, so 60*270,000=16 mil. So you NEVER even had 100 mil losses in a normal attack .... so 'several' is quite a big fat lie.

That is to say you only had 1 attack on TIE. 16mil in repairs. I personally was farmed more then 6 times during your vulturing so just me alone paid over 100mil. I had 1 of the lower incomes at the time. You farmed others much more heavily so i agree that hundreds of millions is fairly accurate.

I think you need to read again what ian said.

Just to help you out : "you only get a relatively minor amount of profit from (100 - 150million), which cause significant damage to The Imperium (several hundred million repair costs and defence super's worth of losses) and which thus each hit in many cases amounted to more than 1billion's worth of resources wiped out from The Imperium per hit."

So try to understand if you can that ian was talking about 1 hit, not 2, not 3, not 10 and like he usually does he twisted the facts to present what he wants.

And as danuboy said it .... we both farmed everyone .... TIE members, WR members, other players ... as long as we got a decent profit out of it. So the entire 2 pages so called "justification" has no grounds ..... both TIE and WR lost resources due to farming. Furthermore, TIE is in a better position, from an economical point of view, you have higher total income and higher total UP, so the losses represented a smaller % for you then for WR. However, Kenzu didn't come to us with threaths and ultimatums .... you did who were less affected by all this .... I wonder what that makes you in the eye of the neutrals.

ian wrote:
You made your decision knowing the consequences it would yield - The Imperium made our decision regarding warning you guys - knowing the consequences/ risks that would yield. Now... can we just get along with the war? I have no wish to end up arguiing about who did this, why this was done etc... anymore to be honest - hence why i ve been quiet on the forum for the past several weeks mainly

That's what I'm saying . Let's have fun As you have seen I like to act not to talk

rflash wrote:

Vesper wrote:

rflash wrote:

ian wrote:Incidentally - 2billion? I don't think anyone in the imperium's ever complained about your farming for 2billion with a 300million defence (i sure as hell have never done so). What we do complain about, though, is this sort of hits which you only get a relatively minor amount of profit from (100 - 150million), which cause significant damage to The Imperium (several hundred million repair costs and defence super's worth of losses) and which thus each hit in many cases amounted to more than 1billion's worth of resources wiped out from The Imperium per hit.

In peace time - where The Imperium could actively increase its defence forces without taking undue risk... i wouldn't have a problem generally provided your hits were reasonable. In war-time where increasing defences is a massive drain AND a massive risk - that sort of conduct is out of line.

Lol .... that's a good one.

You call 100-150 million net profit for an attack MINOR

If you take higher then average player .... which would mean 500 to 700k army ..... you will see that his income is between 15 and 25 mil / turn.

So if this player gets a couple of "minor" hits he will DOUBLE his income. Now if 2x your income is minor to you I would love to see what do you consider major.

Also .... get your math in order. "Several hundred million" losses from repair and super losses NEVER happened. Several would mean at least 3, but in general means at least 5. Me and danu were farming for most of the time with 200-300 mil strikes. So, 30k defense supers with no bonus to defense and with a modest 10% tech would be 30,000*8,000*1.1=264 mil ... about the maximum we would hit. Now for 30k weapons 1 point is 6.9 mil so 8*6.9=55 mil repair costs. Super losses would be maximum 50-60, so 60*270,000=16 mil. So you NEVER even had 100 mil losses in a normal attack .... so 'several' is quite a big fat lie.

That is to say you only had 1 attack on TIE. 16mil in repairs. I personally was farmed more then 6 times during your vulturing so just me alone paid over 100mil. I had 1 of the lower incomes at the time. You farmed others much more heavily so i agree that hundreds of millions is fairly accurate.

I think you need to read again what ian said.

Just to help you out : "you only get a relatively minor amount of profit from (100 - 150million), which cause significant damage to The Imperium (several hundred million repair costs and defence super's worth of losses) and which thus each hit in many cases amounted to more than 1billion's worth of resources wiped out from The Imperium per hit."

So try to understand if you can that ian was talking about 1 hit, not 2, not 3, not 10 and like he usually does he twisted the facts to present what he wants.

And as danuboy said it .... we both farmed everyone .... TIE members, WR members, other players ... as long as we got a decent profit out of it. So the entire 2 pages so called "justification" has no grounds ..... both TIE and WR lost resources due to farming. Furthermore, TIE is in a better position, from an economical point of view, you have higher total income and higher total UP, so the losses represented a smaller % for you then for WR. However, Kenzu didn't come to us with threaths and ultimatums .... you did who were less affected by all this .... I wonder what that makes you in the eye of the neutrals.

Tell me Rflash - how does your farming of World Republic in any way effect what i just said concerning The Imperium's reasons for asking you to stop? Lets just just recap what those reasons were:

ian wrote:- If they farmed The Imperium - that kuwal is lost to The Imperium and can't be used against World Republic.

- If they kill Imperium resources while farming - those resources are lost and can't be utilised against World Republic.

- If they force Imperium members to resort to realm alert levels or motivation levels.... that also represents lost resources which can't be used against World Republic.

- If the Imperium did as Rflash recommends - increasing our defences... these resources used to increase the defence (and their supporting elements - assassination and covert forces) can't be used to fund offensive operations against World Republic.

- If the Imperium did as Rflash recommends - increasing our defences (and their supporting elements - assassination and covert forces) while in a state of war - would be to increase the resources we stand to loose should World Republic attack The Imperium.

Now to put that into a couple of examples:

- 1billion kuwal farmed from Imperium ranks is 1billion less which can be used against World Republic/ to fund The Imperium's war efforts. Result: World Republic gets indirectly aided (it doesn't matter if the farmer intended to aid them or not - thats the end result!)

- If 100million kuwal damage is inflicted to a defence as a result of farming conducted against an Imperium member, thats 100milion kuwal less which can be used against World Republic. Result: World Republic gets indirectly aided (it doesn't matter if the farmer intended to aid them or not - thats the end result!)

- If a Imperium member generates 300million income less overnight due to being on realm alert level - thats 300million less (vs. if they weren't forced to go on realm alert level due to being farmed) that they can utilise against World Republic. Result: World Republic gets indirectly aided (it doesn't matter if the farmer intended to aid them or not - thats the end result!)

- If a Imperium member spends 10billion kuwal of resources on upgrading his defence (and their supporting elements - covert and assassination in order to prevent being profitably sabbed/ assassinated) thats 10billion less of resources which can be used in offensive purposes against World Republic. Result: World Republic gets indirectly aided (it doesn't matter if the farmer intended to aid them or not - thats the end result!)

- If a Imperium member increases his defence/ killable resources by 10billion kuwal's worth of resources - thats 10billion more kuwal's worth of resources which he stands to loose should World Republic attack. Thats 10billion more damage The Imperium risks loosing as a result of the farmer. Result: The Imperium's position becomes more compromised/ risky (it doesn't matter if the farmer intended to aid them or not - thats the end result!)

How does your farming of World Republic in anyway effect the above? It doesn't. Yes the above also potentially applies to World Republic to a greater or lesser extent than The Imperium.... but that still doesn't effect the validity of the above - what happens between you and World Republic... is between you and World Republic.

Now... regarding my 1billion damage comment - i think you ve entirely missed the point (again). There have been hits by you in the past on defences around about the 350million power mark for 600millionish kuwal. Some for 800million+. Only you and danuboy are capable of breaching those defences (or at the very least bother to farm Imperium players) - so to say 800million+ kuwal out is too much for a defence that size is completely irrelevant if the defence protects against all but 2 players on the game. Whats the point in having a far larger defence when a much smaller one prevents farming other than by a tiny tiny tiny tiny tiny fringe element of Aderan Wars?

Anyway, back to the point in hand:

600million kuwal stolen = 600million damage to The Imperium.

If we say the player has a defence of 40,000 IFV's - 9,200,000 kuwal repair per point lost. 9 Points lost - sometimes more per hit. 9 x 9,200,000 = 82,800,000 repair costs.

Thats 682,800,000 kuwal's worth. Lets then say 70 defence supers killed shall we? 1 UU = 110,000 kuwal value (minimum) 70 x 110,000 = 7,700,000 kuwal's worth + 70 x 150,000 (cost to retrain super) = 10,500,000 kuwal's worth. Hey presto - what do you know? We ve made it to 701,000,000 damage inflicted to a Imperium member for one hit in this example. Perhaps i was a bit off with my 1billion figure - haven't really bothered to look in too much depth to be honest. Point is though - there were hits in many cases (something you failed to highlight in your quote btw - since i suspect it won't fit the view your trying to push of me saying ALL your hits inflicted 1billion+ damage - something i m most certainly not claiming) of hits conducted by you and danuboy where in excess of 600million kuwal's worth of resources were destroyed/ taken/ stolen by yourselves per hit. Hits inflicting in excess of 1billiion damage were also on a reasonable basis spread across the 3 odd weeks we ve been at war with World Republic.

Again long post trying to prove what ?

danuboy wrote:Again long post trying to prove what ?

Short post adding what?

ian wrote:

danuboy wrote:Again long post trying to prove what ?

Short post adding what?

No answer ...

Ian, don't want to spoil your party, but if you are including the amount stolen in the damage done, than the damage done is always greater than the amount stolen.
The point about hitting both WR and TIE was that they are helping neither (or helping both to the same extent). But you knew that already.

Jiro wrote:Ian, don't want to spoil your party, but if you are including the amount stolen in the damage done, than the damage done is always greater than the amount stolen.
The point about hitting both WR and TIE was that they are helping neither (or helping both to the same extent). But you knew that already.

Jiro, Rflash and Danuboy both were involved in massing members of TIE. They could mass members of WR to even it up but lets be honest. No1 is really left worth massing in WR. We had a bit of fun tonight. Now WR willl need to rely on their allies in GD if they want any hope of dealing damage to TIE. But they have been doing that from the start havent they? WR would be nothing without GD as they proved to accomplish nothing until they received help from them.

Ironic how every1 points fingers as to who the "bullies" are and what not. Just for the sake of having yet another pointless argument to pass time. I think it is safe to call Rflash and Danuboy "bullies" since they massed members of TIE for no reason at all. No actions against either of them were done what so ever and then they massed at least 3 members of the company. Now WR is allied with "bullies" what does that say about WR?

Hi Vesper, I did not say anything about bullies. I pointed out flaws in Ian's calculations and arguments. That's all.

Vesper wrote:

Jiro wrote:Ian, don't want to spoil your party, but if you are including the amount stolen in the damage done, than the damage done is always greater than the amount stolen.
The point about hitting both WR and TIE was that they are helping neither (or helping both to the same extent). But you knew that already.

Jiro, Rflash and Danuboy both were involved in massing members of TIE. They could mass members of WR to even it up but lets be honest. No1 is really left worth massing in WR. We had a bit of fun tonight. Now WR willl need to rely on their allies in GD if they want any hope of dealing damage to TIE. But they have been doing that from the start havent they? WR would be nothing without GD as they proved to accomplish nothing until they received help from them.

Ironic how every1 points fingers as to who the "bullies" are and what not. Just for the sake of having yet another pointless argument to pass time. I think it is safe to call Rflash and Danuboy "bullies" since they massed members of TIE for no reason at all. No actions against either of them were done what so ever and then they massed at least 3 members of the company. Now WR is allied with "bullies" what does that say about WR?

So Vesper because we strike first we're the bullies ? My opinion is that you are angry because you didn't do that. You really think I'd let you guys mass me 1st after I was threatened several times ?

i think the main question now should be can danuboy and rflash balance protection long enough to let the anger towards them pass and can they take on all of TIE by themselves since nearly every strike in WR has been removed

Vesper wrote:

Jiro wrote:Ian, don't want to spoil your party, but if you are including the amount stolen in the damage done, than the damage done is always greater than the amount stolen.
The point about hitting both WR and TIE was that they are helping neither (or helping both to the same extent). But you knew that already.

Jiro, Rflash and Danuboy both were involved in massing members of TIE. They could mass members of WR to even it up but lets be honest. No1 is really left worth massing in WR. We had a bit of fun tonight. Now WR willl need to rely on their allies in GD if they want any hope of dealing damage to TIE. But they have been doing that from the start havent they? WR would be nothing without GD as they proved to accomplish nothing until they received help from them.

Ironic how every1 points fingers as to who the "bullies" are and what not. Just for the sake of having yet another pointless argument to pass time. I think it is safe to call Rflash and Danuboy "bullies" since they massed members of TIE for no reason at all. No actions against either of them were done what so ever and then they massed at least 3 members of the company. Now WR is allied with "bullies" what does that say about WR?

"buhuuuu, everyone is against us, buhuuuu, everyone hates us.
rflash is a bad boy, buhuuuu
I want to go to my mommy"

Whining is all I see in your post

Besides, how was Jiro involved in the massing?
Did he farm you guys?

Why dont you declare war on everyone in the server, because that's what people do when you have small defense.
They farm you!

ian wrote:

vei07 wrote:WR and its members will stand beside Ken.

I admire your committment to your alliance. I do however question whether you can speak for the free-will of *all* of World Republic's memberbase.

He can speak for himself.
The will of WR members is clear, isn't it?

No surrender to the opressor!

lol we declared war on, everyone on this sever kenzu if WR is everyone ok your right ! but you twisting again every little thing . and your feeling well now that you did some massing didn't you let's see how long you can keep this up

As member of the SHC (not sure if that's still the case, considering the restructuring) I will support and lobby the enforcement of a comm blackout or "Silenzio Stampa" for The Imperium members.

I would also like to see our leadership and members of the SHC adhere to the same thing or at least drastically shorten the frequency and verboseness of their replies.