World Republic vs. The Imperium

Why would it have been better to post that 2 days ago?

then you didn't massed us with rflash and danuboy

no need to create new topics

who did ?

kenzu with his operation zerohour, merged the post with this thread

World Republic is at war with TIE since 12 the October 2009

Here is the list of battles during the war, where WR fought TIE back.

First battle

In the first offensive, WR massed ian and Korruption (korruption's miners have been killed) dealing 40 billion damage.
WR spent a value of 10 billion in the attack

(TIE responded by massing some of our members)

Operation "Zerohour"
2 days ago, WR and our allies massed 4 TIE members. TIE responded with massing one of our smaller players. WR and our allies responded with massing another TIE member.

Following TIE members have been massed:

Blackeagle, (lost over 0.5 million miners)
Mitola, (lost 3 million miners)
Souldog, (lost over 1.5 million miners)
superkingstob,
AS23 (lost over 1 million miners)

TIE lost over 6.100.000 miners, workers and other military units
(and of course hundreds of tousands IFVs)

World Republic and our allies lost 75.000 - 125.000 units.

Total damage inflicted on TIE was:

yesterday: 608-640 billion kuwal
today: 130.5 billion kuwal
In total 750 billion kuwal (in the last 2 days)

TIE lost a value between 738 and 770 billion kuwal
WR spent in total a value between 45 and 60 billion kuwal
Our allies spent a value of 50 billion kuwal






The value refers to all repairs, untrained units, attack turns, training and other expenses related to massing.
1 AT valued at 800.000 kuwal
1 UU valued at 100.000 kuwal

Admin wrote:no need to create new topics

I dont want to post in TIE spam ridden thread.
Furthermore TIE changes facts and WR has the right to have a thread on their own.

Congratulations to Kenzu/ World Republic - i was wondering when you guys would finally hit back!

I m glad to see you ve got over your "we ll concentrate on The Commonwealth since they are the "weakest" of the Imperium strategy" - since that strategy honestly defied logic (considering you could mass other players with lots more miners than what The Commonwealth has, thus cause far more damage!) - so i ll extend my warm congratulations to World Republic for a job well done

Now... we can finally get down to fighting this war properly The honey moon period is over guys - The Imperium left you alone for weeks on end after we retaliated to your *attempted* massing of myself (in the hopes you d come to the negotiating table) - now we can fight it out properly at last

On the bright side - at least you ve illustrated in a very visible way to some of The Imperium who were complacent/ foolish enough to have all miners (against the advice of myself and The Commonwealth) just what a catastrophic mistake that was.... Oh well, the lesson was going to have to be learnt sooner or later anyway

rofl, right WR deserves their own thread to talk about the war

not really, i wont set the standard that opposing sides may have several threads

my comment was sarcasm. Its war, if kenzu wants his own thread he can use his own forum and hope that TIE doesn't go there again

It is a complete waste to create multiple threads. I agree with admin. If people create a new thread everytime they get into a debate it would be impossible for any1 to get the full story.

Just by Kenzu creating the past few threads all about the exact same topic most ppl are struggling to get the facts. If we stayed on the original thread a person can simply scroll back a few pages and read exactly what was being discussed instead of needing to search through 10 different threads that Kenzu has created in an attempt to confuse and manipulate the truth

vesper I can't agree with that scrolling back a few pages, judging from experience. With topics people will rarely read beyond the first and last few posts, hence I look at this first page, most of it is ian's posts, well you get what I mean.

As to who is confusing and manipulating the truth, imo if both sides keep accusing each other of that all the time, well dunno
(I dont have an issue with people presenting their "facts" and opinions. What I mean is saying the actual sentence "[insert name] keeps twisting the facts and confuses people" is what really ticks me off with everyone around here, it's like with little kids for crying out loud).

Personally I'd like to take out the banhammer, but some people might tell me that it's actually mature if both sides accuse each other of doing the same thing, and then keep repeating it over and over again.

Special Agent 47 wrote:@ Admin, a split would be nice, R/L politics have no place in here. Nice to see you defending your brother and his alliance again, tho you did throw in that one liner to save face, something about not ending up in this situation to begin with. Well that is the entire point isnt it?

Did the effort of splitting the RL stuff away. Other than that, you're wrong about saving face. I'm not interested in that, this is a forum, I have an account, I have an opinion. I will definitely share it if it's on topic. About defending, well ok, if you want to call stating my opinion as that, no problem, that's your opinion

The one liner is there so that certain people dont get funny ideas trying to interpret more into the post than there actually is. I admit sometimes people might misinterpret the level of authority associated with a post, hence why I will add some note each time there is a risk of ambiguity.

ian wrote:Congratulations to Kenzu/ World Republic - i was wondering when you guys would finally hit back!

I m glad to see you ve got over your "we ll concentrate on The Commonwealth since they are the "weakest" of the Imperium strategy" - since that strategy honestly defied logic (considering you could mass other players with lots more miners than what The Commonwealth has, thus cause far more damage!) - so i ll extend my warm congratulations to World Republic for a job well done

Now... we can finally get down to fighting this war properly The honey moon period is over guys - The Imperium left you alone for weeks on end after we retaliated to your *attempted* massing of myself (in the hopes you d come to the negotiating table) - now we can fight it out properly at last

On the bright side - at least you ve illustrated in a very visible way to some of The Imperium who were complacent/ foolish enough to have all miners (against the advice of myself and The Commonwealth) just what a catastrophic mistake that was.... Oh well, the lesson was going to have to be learnt sooner or later anyway

Weeks and weeks of built up Kuwal and Supply turns!! Lets get this rolling Perhaps people will finally see why The Commonwealth shifted all of their miners to workers when admin introduced the new invasion method saving us billions of untraining and training costs

The only reason people are inserting the name "Kenzu" is because he is the entire face of WR. Not a single other member of WR is stepping forward on behalf of the entire alliance.

I am mainly sick of BOTH sides accusing each other of starting the war. BOTH sides are at fault. "it takes two to tango"

Here is all the evidence and the facts that i know of to this point. These are the points i feel led to where we are today.
~Kenzu sends messages literally asking for spies in The Commonwealth, The Company, and The Others. possibly more.

~In response to this The Commonwealth leaps at the opportunity to mislead Kenzu and give him any information we feel fit. Triple agent so to say and yes he has been from day 1. I am 1 of the few people that was informed of the person and knew what information was being provided.

Ian looks out for his friends and those under his command in every game. Im sure many of you know that from dune if you were to mass 1 member of The Commonwealth you sentenced your entire alliance to war. Still stands that way to this day on dune.

~ So when an attack from 3cats4me went to sabotage Space2050 for a profitable farming act it pretty much just pissed off a bunch of people. Not because a person tried and failed to assassinate a member of our alliance but because it was a member of WR who have massed defensless players for a while. TIE has sat on the sidelines for a while just watching and observing since it didnt really involve us and we didnt have any true evidence that WR was being the aggressors other then what was being said on the forums. Then by 3cats4me attempting to sabatoge Space2050 it PROVED that members of WR would use hostile attacks for no reason other then being farmed.

~ Then we get to the ultimatum.

ian wrote:35hours 25minutes untill the ultimatum expires, and WR's failure to comply with the ultimatum/ demands are deemed a declaration of war by World Republic against The Commonwealth, The Company and The Others.

To clarify exactly what we want:

1.) we want a code of conduct (to give you a idea - The Commonwealth's own one is here: https://aderanwars.forumotion.com/alliance-recruitment-f19/the-commonwealth-t451-30.htm#6878) which sets out World Republic's views/ principles regarding its members and outside members conduct - and what shall and shan't be accepted, and consequences of breach of the conduct.

Purpose of this was so that WR will not randomly mass people just for the hell of it. As a group this was asked to be put into the ultimatum so that the smaller members such as 3cats4me will know that is is unacceptable to sabotage other players for no reason. And if he did he would be punished by the High COuncil of WR rather then having an entire war declared on WR.

If World Republic's code of conduct satisfies the main alliances of Aderan Wars (in terms of justice, fairness and general morals) then we shall expect World Republic to abide by it (failure to do so would result in us enforcing it against WR).

2.) We want World Republic to cease immediately any attempts at infiltration with spies of any other alliance, and to cease attempting to set up a surveillance network of the other alliances on Aderan Wars.

Well this should be obvious. No1 wants spies in their alliance

3.) We want the names of ALL World Republic operatives in other alliances - coupled with evidence that they are actually operatives (if we don't get any names + evidence of their being operations ... this term will be deemed not being satisfied, and the ultimatum breached) - you may want to consider that between The Commonwealth, The Company and The Others we have a considerable list/ knowledge of World Republic spies operating in our ranks, and other alliances - so if you try to double cross us on this i.e. miss out a operatives name - we ll know, and deem it a breach of the ultimatum, and thus a declaration of war.

Same reason as above. We didnt want spies as that is clearly an act of war to infiltrate a potential enemy.

4.) We demand World Republic drop all its inactive members - the definition of active being logging in, in the last 36hours.

This was asked so that people can tell the difference between members of WR that we should not touch and those that are inactive. This was literally to protect the larger members of WR from being farms. If WR had a core group of people that TIE could address as WR instead of a bunch of inactives.


5.) WR accept that any member of WR who has more resources out in the open than 36 hours worth will be considered no longer protected by WR and so will be open to sabbing and massing to reduce defences and so farming costs - by any outside party/ alliance.

I would think 36 hours is a bit short but in general this was decided to be added to the ultimatum so that WR would not be able to protect inactives.

6.) World Republic pay The Commonwealth 1,000,000,000 kuwal for its troubles, and The Company 750,000,000 for their troubles - this 1,750,000,000 thus acting as a compensation to World Republic victims, and acting as a fine on World Republic for previous crimes committed, thereby restoring some justice for their crimes.

Okay honestly. 1.75bil is nothing compared to all the crap that has happened. This was later decided to be pointless and was removed entirely

Failure to comply with any of the above by the time of the dead-line (2.13 a.m GMT, tuesday the 22nd 2009), will be deemed a declaration of war by World Republic against The Commonwealth, The Company and The Others, and as such a state of hostilities shall exist.

technically after this ultimatum WR should have been massed. But no Ian, reaper, and Dark Arrow decided to fight in WR's defense and issued a new ultimatum instead of going straight to war

Thats about it i think... did i miss anything out, anyone?

Now TIE played around a bit with WR knowing that they had a spy in The Commonwealth. The best way to end ALL hostility from TIE would have been for Kenzu to openly TELL THE TRUTH about Vance. Only thing that had to be done to have everything forgiven. Kenzu finally agreed to saying he had a spy in TIE and was about to post and every1 have peace. But no, he says he has a spy because TIE "forced" him to say he had 1. If any1 can argue that saying sorry because your forced to means the same as honestly apologizing i would love to hear some1 argue that Kenzu's post was honest and he was not trying to twist the truth, Deflecting that he might actually not have a spy.

~Then at some point in the middle of all of this, Sara a HC member of WR breaks their own Code of Conduct. Better yet, she was told to break it by the alliance leader himself, who wrote the code of conduct.

After kenzu's post post about admitting to having a spy only because we forced him to admit it i feel was the ultimate slap to the face and war will happen it was just a matter of who felt like actually starting it. (Kenzu and Lord Pegasus took lead on this)

So now lets be completely honest.

1)Do members of both alliances want to stay at war? Do members of both alliances want peace?

2)Does TIE have alot more resources then WR and will ultimately "win" not based on skill but based on shear amount of income over WR?

3)Is this war going to prove anything?
Im sure most of the server knows that The Commonwealth has made its point and through math and strategy it is near impossible for WR to launch a full scale attack against us and have it be profitable.
WR proved that they can gain allies despite being near defeated and can launch a successful counter attack if offered breathing room.

4)Is every person not involved in the war going to outgrow WR and TIE while we spend billions of kuwal just smashing each other?



Before this war Kenzu and Ian were both roughly 2mil army size. Not so much the case anymore.
kilo ~~~~~~2,520,630
Keinutnai ~~ 1,721,300

Both sides are suffering from unwarranted self-importance and should cut out all this pointless sabre-rattling rubbish, since its basically resulted in a standoff than is so similar to the playground 'BUT HE SAID IT FIRST/ NO HE SAID IT FIRST' crap that is pathetic to the extreme.

I pretty much agree with Farle Shadow.


The question we should ask ourselves:

Is TIE willing to go to peace and end the war?

What date and time should TIE and WR have peace?

What is the earliest it is possible for TIE to have peace?

Because I think it is clear that WR would go to peace if TIE agreed to it.
Afterall we wanted peace in the first place.

Kenzu wrote:I pretty much agree with Farle Shadow.


The question we should ask ourselves:

Is TIE willing to go to peace and end the war?

What date and time should TIE and WR have peace?

What is the earliest it is possible for TIE to have peace?

Because I think it is clear that WR would go to peace if TIE agreed to it.
Afterall we wanted peace in the first place.

i think we should continue fighting at least till thanksgiving . , I fought and did some damage to TIE and i haven't got massed yet . it wouldn't be fair to go to peace before i get beat up a little or a lot in my eyes .

Kenzu wrote:I pretty much agree with Farle Shadow.


The question we should ask ourselves:

Is TIE willing to go to peace and end the war?

What date and time should TIE and WR have peace?

What is the earliest it is possible for TIE to have peace?

Because I think it is clear that WR would go to peace if TIE agreed to it.
Afterall we wanted peace in the first place.

Hmm, whether we ll agree to peace or not depends upon a couple of questions:

1.) Is rflash and Danuboy in World Republic? As personally (and this is just my opinion btw) - i d be quite happy to have peace with World Republic now and concentrate on ensuring Rflash and Danuboy get whats coming to them for their vulturing and now joining in in this war. Thats not an official Imperium stance - but my stance which i d convey to The Imperium HC and see whats decided.

Of course, if World Republic include Danuboy and Rflash, this war will wage on for a fair bit longer yet

Lol ..... the old tactic of divide et impera .... c'mon you are quite obvious, I thought you were smarter then that.

And in case you don't know what goes on inside your own alliance TIE had very clear plans to mass me and danuboy for farming and for some assassinations we didn't do but you conveniently put them on our backs. What you also suggested which wasn't true, but served you to make us the bad guys was the idea that WR was funding us to farm you which if you do a cold analysis of it anyone can see that is stupid as we gained enough from farming and all our hits have been profitable ones.

When you leave over 2 bil out with less then a 300 mil defense you are asking to be farmed. This is a war game and farming is a natural part of it, as you can see admin is even modifying the system in order to increase the farming in the game ..... because of the high repair costs farming is much less used then in other games.

rflash wrote:Lol ..... the old tactic of divide et impera .... c'mon you are quite obvious, I thought you were smarter then that.

And in case you don't know what goes on inside your own alliance TIE had very clear plans to mass me and danuboy for farming and for some assassinations we didn't do but you conveniently put them on our backs. What you also suggested which wasn't true, but served you to make us the bad guys was the idea that WR was funding us to farm you which if you do a cold analysis of it anyone can see that is stupid as we gained enough from farming and all our hits have been profitable ones.

When you leave over 2 bil out with less then a 300 mil defense you are asking to be farmed. This is a war game and farming is a natural part of it, as you can see admin is even modifying the system in order to increase the farming in the game ..... because of the high repair costs farming is much less used then in other games.

Your right - we did have very clear plans to mass you if you continued farming of our members. I even told you that myself:

"Next time i see you in a commonwealth or Company members logs, the next thing you ll hear from us will be the removal of your account. Your actions are helping World Republic - cease farming or join the war. Its thats simple.

I couldn't give a damn if your strike can farm Imperium members or not - we won't be increasing our defence sizes while in a state of war due to the idiocy of doing such a thing. Increasing defences only means we stand to loose a hell of a lot more when WR eventually mass us.

This is your last warning. If you farm another Commonwealth or Company member, you ll be declaring war on The Imperium and siding with World Republic"

So, lets recap then shall we?

- The Imperium's in a state of war - any extra increases to defence = extra targets for the inevitable World Republic counter-attack to target. I even did some very nice maths to work out exactly the implications of increasing our defences like you seemed to think was acceptable:

10 level 10 weapons (IFV)'s: 184,000 kuwal per weapon - 1,840,000 kuwal.
10 Defence Supers: 150,000 kuwal per super - 1,500,000 kuwal.
8 spies: 45,000 kuwal per spy - 360,000 kuwal.
8 assassins: 45,000 kuwal per assassin - 360,000 kuwal.

Thats a total training/ arming cost of 4,060,000 kuwal to arm, train and support a defence increase of 10 defence supers.

On top of this you need to factor in the UU value of the UU trained as these various forces - since that is the value of UU we d have exposed to being massed/ assassinated should we be assaulted by World Republic/ someone else.

Thats 26 UU in total - UU rates are about 120,000 i believe? 26 x 120,000 = 3,120,000 kuwal's worth.

Thats means an increase of 10 defence supers - including arming and supporting (spies/ assassins) will expose a total of 7,180,000 kuwal's worth of resources to being lost should the enemy attack you.

100 defence supers = 71,800,000 kuwal's worth.
1000 defence supers = 718,000,000 kuwal's worth.
10,000 defence supers = 7,180,000,000 kuwal's worth.
20,000 defence supers = 14,360,000,000 kuwal's worth.
30,000 defence supers = 21,540,000,000 kuwal's worth.

Now.... i m sorry but thats WAY unacceptable given we were in a state of war. To increase our defence forces to stop your farming of us while in war would have been little short of suicide - not to mention a MASSIVE diversion of resources taken away from potentially being saved/ used against World Republic, to being reassigned into defences/ support infrastructure which could be killed.

You ignored our warnings about farming - you ve now gone to war because you knew we would take action for your farming (which we ve put up with for over 3 weeks). You could have stopped and walked away from farming at any point - along with all the profit you d gained from farming while in this conflict - and been none the worse for it. We weren't asking you to stop farming us indefinately - merely to stop farming us while in this conflict i.e. while we were unable to realistically increase our defences (any increase in defence = suicidal/ giving WR more targets, increasing potential Imperium losses). Instead... you ve insisted on farming knowing it would result in war. You ll pay the price. That 1.7billion power defence is gonna be a bitch to rebuild when its brought down

Incidentally - 2billion? I don't think anyone in the imperium's ever complained about your farming for 2billion with a 300million defence (i sure as hell have never done so). What we do complain about, though, is this sort of hits which you only get a relatively minor amount of profit from (100 - 150million), which cause significant damage to The Imperium (several hundred million repair costs and defence super's worth of losses) and which thus each hit in many cases amounted to more than 1billion's worth of resources wiped out from The Imperium per hit.

In peace time - where The Imperium could actively increase its defence forces without taking undue risk... i wouldn't have a problem generally provided your hits were reasonable. In war-time where increasing defences is a massive drain AND a massive risk - that sort of conduct is out of line.

WR and its members will stand beside Ken.

Ken, me and WR fights for what we believe is true. We will stand.

vei07 wrote:WR and its members will stand beside Ken.

I admire your committment to your alliance. I do however question whether you can speak for the free-will of *all* of World Republic's memberbase.

First of all increasing defense is NOT the only way to stop farming. You can use relaxed, you can use a higher realm alert level or you can log in more often.

Second, you know perfectly well that less then 25% of your members follow those guidelines.

Third, you broke your own doctrine .... after being massed you went to about 160% of your previous defense.

Forth, you came here with some ideas from dune that don't apply. Increasing your defense isn't stupid at all in this game and plenty of your members did it. Massing with a strike below the defense or very close is very costly and after you have massed someone this way if you do the math you will see that the defender lost just a bit more then the attacker or if there is a bigger difference between the defense and the strike the attacker will lose more then the defender. Furthermore the attacker has lost 3 to 5 days worth of STs. So if you don't have other easy kills on your account .... like 3.2 mil miners for example .... massing is much less effective then in other games.

Fifth, increasing the defense alliance wide is a good move because of the high unit losses when massing. So if someone started with 1 bil strike if your alliance has ~20% defense increase he will mass at least 1 less person until his strike drops quite low.

We all have the free-will, but we are also bound with the justified rules of WR