For Lasting Peace

NO shame u did not think of peace when u sent out all them PMs asking for spies in all alliances also bragging about 2 spies u have in our ranks to start with that is no act of peace u dug this hole now u are trying to get your self out of it as we are filling it in around u

Kenzu wrote:
Have you even read what I have written?
I am offering you peaceful talks without threats and war.

Didn't I explain it well, why you shouldn't threaten someone to apologise to you and why you shouldn't ask someone to betray his friends?

Please read the post again.

Forget what has been said, let us start a new page!

I have NO reason to want peace from you. I DO have reason to want WAR with you.

Read what I wrote.

I am NOT offering peaceful talks with you.

I have not YET nor EVER asked you to betray your friends. I have told you how to end this peacefully.

Atone for your sins, correct what wrongs you have done, until then do not speak to me again because I have no tolerance for fools, nor those to feeble to see through the one leading them.

We have YET to do ANYTHING to you, but YOU have done MANY things to us.

How many more times will you ask for peace and betray it in the same week? same day? same breath?


Be careful your word Kenzu, because even an alliance leader will be held responsible for his words. And you have given me a clear path, one legitamate in your eyes, to destroy you and your alliance. I have always been a strong believer in the fact it is easier to ask forgiveness then permission. I'm willing to bet The Company will allow me back in their ranks when our war is finished. The cost will be great for me, in resources, in the lives of men, and probably my seat on The Company's High Council, BUT I promise you one thing, your losses will far exceed mine. Not only in resources, Not only in the lives of your men, Not only in the accounts of your alliance, but it may very well cost you that which you hold most dear. It may cost you WR itself.


Edit after Reapers post and Kenzu's reply
Now you beg? while satisfying it turns my stomach. At least the offering up of your account in the fashion of a duel was honorable. You would be wiser to stick with that. This brings shame on all of WR. Like Reaper said, you should have thought about what you were doing when you did it.

Be a man, and reap what you have sown.

You Ask for my honest opinion. here I go .

1. this post was a Bad idea , you made an impulsive choice with the TIE has Spies In WR , with out thinking how will they react to that post.
now your clutching at straws finding a way out of your bad post .

2. whether TIE has spies in WR or not , something of this importance should have been between you, Kilo , and Reaper, Or you should of narrowed down members who you suspected of being a spy and trapped them and kicked them out .

3. Its clearly obvious that you and the Leaders of TIE can never come to a compromise and your guys' personalities clash , maybe try sending the Second in Command of WR to handle all matters between TIE and WR , and you make the final decision For WR .

4. telling your enemy your afraid of him is NEVER a good idea. Even if you are afraid of your enemy you never show it.


Ambition Of Chaos

Kenzu wrote:

reaper wrote:NO shame u did not think of peace when u sent out all them PMs asking for spies in all alliances also bragging about 2 spies u have in our ranks to start with that is no act of peace u dug this hole now u are trying to get your self out of it as we are filling it in around u

I am very sorry for that and I think I have apologised before already.

Please let us do this diplomatically, without threats.

You know that World Republic is powerless against The Company anyway.
We are no threat to you, so please don't fight us.

u ask for diplomatically and no threats all we asked was a name of spies u openly said u have and we are still waiting for so wot makes u think we will do wot u ask of us

i'm pretty new to this game yet and to this forum,
but i feel like posting so here's my 2 cents worth lol
don't tell people private stuff for one thing, like don't go around saying i have spies in your alliance etc. thats not to bright, second of all if somebodys member of their alliance attacks a member to another alliance you offer to pay for what was lost, if not accepted then hey, their loss,
3rd you offer peace, if it's not accepted then again, their loss, move on.
4th, never ever give in to threats, i don't care how small or how big they are, never give in to it, after all its a war game not a social club.
WOW i feel so much better hehe
G/L to everyone involved in what ever this all is.

This is all extremely tedious and tiresome from my perspective. Yes, I think it is clear to most if not all that Kenzu has made some communications/diplomatic blunders -- he certainly continues to clash with several key players.

With that said, he is an individual. Separate from that he is the leader of an Alliance. I can say that since I have been a member of WR, Kenzu has cooperated with other Alliances on the forums in ways that have improved the Alliance. I think that the "spirited discussions" on the forums have inspired him in other ways to do things that are good for the Alliance.

Clearly we as an Alliance have been going through "interesting times". Policies, organization, and leadership style have all been evolving. I think Kenzu has been evolving as an Alliance leader as well. The game dynamic has been dramatically shifting and Kenzu has been adjusting to the changes. He hasn't been doing a perfect job, but I wouldn't expect him to. During major changes like these, we need leaders that are willing to stick with it and change themselves. Whatever anyone may say about how well Kenzu has handled all of this, I think he has shown that he is willing to push through this evolution, however challenging it may be. I also think he has unambiguously demonstrated (at least some) good character and (at least some) humility with his responses to the never-ending series of ultimatums.

I do not expect anyone to not ever make mistakes, and I do not even expect a leader to be perceived as good all the time. I certainly don't expect other Alliances or other Alliance leaders to perceive this Alliance leader to be great. I don't necessarily perceive other Alliance leaders as being great either.

Clearly there is a lot of hostility that has built up against Kenzu from some players (however many). Justified or not, I don't think this hostility warrants a WR genocide.

Meanwhile, this is a game, and I have made some attempt to keep up with politics on the forums, but I have to be honest. These politics are very boring. To me, the big issues going on are posturing and obsess over semantics and minutae (there are exceptions). In sum, I can see why some WR individuals could arguably be targeted -- though I think 1:1 much more appropriate and interesting. I think the aftermath of 1:1 versus multi-Alliance massing of 1+ players would be much more engaging and interesting -- and better for the game.

I haven't read anything that makes me motivated to get into any kind of war at the scale of Alliances. I do think that Alliances openly and honorably declaring war on each other would be fun and I'm up for that in concept. But, I'd like to see that happen for reasons that are fun. I'd hate to have it for reasons that bore me.

I'm guessing that many/most/all of the folks itching to war with Kenzu are plenty motivated and would find it fun -- at least at the time. As a WR member, if I got sucked into an obviously unbalanced war for really tedious personal reasons that in my opinion clearly do not involve the WR at large, I am not motivated. I'd say let's come up with a good reason, then do it. Something we can get behind.

Dr. Seuss wrote an awesome book called The Butter Battle Book. Without going into details, the opposing factions are against each other because one keeps the butter side up; the other keeps the butter side down. Yes, bread. Anyhow, that would be a much better reason for a war in my opinion. It gives me a battle cry and everything. I can get behind defending my right to keep the butter side down. Getting behind "several folks have a major beef with my leader and so I need to try to take them out or just be destroyed" is just lame.

My real suggestion for stirring up a real war is music. Just try to take away my right to play disco. And just try to play country on my territory -- you'd be asking for it!

Anyhow, I'm just interested in the game being fun. I have had several interactions with players individually and have enjoyed these interactions with folks in my Alliance and not in my Alliance. For the most part I believe I found mutual respect with everyone I have interacted with (including shadow_Phoenix from our recent 1:1).

I think Kenzu has offered a solution to this current escalation that has the potential to shift things to an honorable plane -- instead of the tedium that has been ongoing. I suggest we go that direction and stick with it. Yes this is a game, but I also think it should be fun.

Caveat -- all the above is strictly my opinion. I do not speak for the WR. I do not expect anyone to agree with any of my "observations". I am taking things "seriously" only on the scale of "I play this game to have fun".

Apologies to anyone I may have offended -- I'm just looking after my fancy polyester pants.

And to finish my post: Sly & The Family Stone: Everybody Is a Star

Edit: just for the record I wrote this before seeing ian's response. I'll leave the substantive edits that I might have made had I been sufficiently motivated to make them as an exercise for the reader.

Special Agent 47 wrote:NO

When you atone for what you have done, maybe then.

You still to this day have NOT

1. revieled your spy
2. apologized for stabbing us in the back
3. apologized for slandering and lieing about us
4. the attacks on reyno PROVE beyond a shadow of a doubt that YOU still actively batter those smaller and weaker then yourselves and DO NOT follow your own "code of conduct"


We have not laid a finger on you, yet your here screaming like a little girl about how Wrong and Cruel and Abusive WE ARE??????

You want peace, then do what was asked of you from the beginning.

And Know what I said in the other thread still stands, With or without Reaper, With or without Ian, With or without any other player from TIE,,,,


You have a war coming.

I hate to tell you, but you HAVE attacked our members. The whole "we have not laid a finger on you, yet your here screaming like a little girl, etc..." (it's you're, not your btw).

Mitola, ranked #10, attacked a much lower ranked member in WR.
cmarius, has attacked at least 1 member of WR more than once.

So where is "The Company's" "Code of Conduct"???

Those are the ones I know about.... from only one member of WR.

Those are YOUR alliance members. Members of "The Company"

Are you in on this whole bully thing? No matter what happens, you're just threatening WR with WAR. That's all you want is war. WAR WAR WAR! Doesn't matter if we capitulate to your 3rd ultimatum or 4th or 5th. Every time we capitulate, we get threatened again for something else. It doesn't stop. You're always going to find something else to complain about. Did we breathe correctly today? THREATEN WAR OVER THAT! WR DIDN'T BREATHE RIGHT... THEY DIDN'T BREATHE THE WAY WE WANT THEM TO!

Special Agent 47 wrote:"And Know what I said in the other thread still stands, With or without Reaper, With or without Ian, With or without any other player from TIE,,,,


You have a war coming."

Know what happens to bullies in the end?



Edit after Vader's post:

I agree with this. Some people have their panties in a wad over things that have happened but have stopped. Then the Company has been attacking attacking members ranked 180+ and really wondering WHY The Company is complaining about any of this. It's politics that are beyond belief. Kenzu has tried and made the post to try some reconciliation between the alliances. Most WR members support this because they think war at this stage is stupid; over stupid things that most of them have nothing to do with. Most WR members don't read these forums because guess what... they are boring. My post is boring. Every post concerning these ultimatums and every attempt at diplomacy & posturing is boring. Only part of these forums that I bother with normally are the suggestions and bugs forums. NO politics there. Thankfully.

No.

You repeat the same things Kenzu, always the same things. You always come with demands, you always accuse and point fingers, even here, in your would-be "on your knees for peace" thread.

You're just stalling, it is clear you don't want this war, but war can only be avoided through a change of attitude and I'm not sure if you're willing or even capable of doing that. You need to understand something: You don't get to make demands.
You act in your diplomacy like the USSR might act when confronted by someone like, dunno, the other half of Germany. That's not the power scale you're dealing with here so it would be best if you tone it down with the "holier than thou" attitude and keep quiet.

@kismet: WR haven't fully satisfied any of the ultimatums. And let me tell you, saying "I apologize because you want me to." is not a god-damn apology.

As a WR member I'd like to see those spies get outed... I mean seriously, hasn't that issue been played all the way into the ground?