suggestion

kingkongfan1 wrote:all I do know for sure is the price of AT's has gotten so high that farming/raiding is no longer possible profitably...

This is the kind of logic I cannot agree with though.
Even if everyone would start asking 500 units per AT right now then everyone else will raid again once their farms hit 700 uu per hit or they can get 1 bil kuwal

Admin wrote:

kingkongfan1 wrote:all I do know for sure is the price of AT's has gotten so high that farming/raiding is no longer possible profitably...

This is the kind of logic I cannot agree with though.
Even if everyone would start asking 500 units per AT right now then everyone else will raid again once their farms hit 700 uu per hit or they can get 1 bil kuwal

which at this point in time WILL NOT HAPPEN!!!


so we just sit and wait for the weeks or months that it takes to happen. kinna like we are doing now LOL

Admin wrote:

kingkongfan1 wrote:all I do know for sure is the price of AT's has gotten so high that farming/raiding is no longer possible profitably...

This is the kind of logic I cannot agree with though.
Even if everyone would start asking 500 units per AT right now then everyone else will raid again once their farms hit 700 uu per hit or they can get 1 bil kuwal

Then let me try to explain it this way...

the last AT's I purchased from the GM were 39,000,000 per, now using farming as the example, (I have not done the raid value yet). that means that to "break even" on any farm I do I have to make 390,000,000 on the hit. (39,000,000 X 10 = AT cost). so to actually make a profit I need more than 390,000,000 per hit to make a profit, & finding a 400,000,000 farm is like finding a needle in a haystack...

also if I did my math correctly, there is no way in hell I will pay 90,000,000 per AT, which is what your above example has AT's priced at,,, that would mean a farm hit of 900,000,000 to break even, which is over twice as much as I have to hit now to "break even", I would need to hit for 1,000,000,000 for a "profit"...

Whether you agree with my thinking or not, there are more players that think like I do than I think you realize...

Kenzu wrote:That's only because someone bought the last ones of the market and no one added fresh ones. If you see that happening you should place some of yours for a price you would like to have. There will be always someone who will pay more than what you can make when using it yourself

I would like to put some on at a price I want. The market won't allow me to put them on over the price of 49m each.
I would like to point out the fact that I can nab more then I sell ATs for.

kingkongfan1 wrote:so to actually make a profit I need more than 390,000,000 per hit to make a profit, & finding a 400,000,000 farm is like finding a needle in a haystack...

So you want to tell me that after prices would quadruple, people would still attack for 250 mil kuwal and make a loss instead of letting the farms accumulate more kuwal which means the 400 mil farms would become as regular as the current 250 mil ones?
Fyi, the latter's the option that has been going on forever on these games.
By your logic you shouldn't have farms with more than 300-400k kuwal out.

kingkongfan1 wrote: Whether you agree with my thinking or not, there are more players that think like I do than I think you realize...

I am fully aware that many players still believe this weird logic of "higher AT price = less profit" and believe me, it saddens me extremely.
So far, the only cure I found was time so the people to realize the truth on their own one by one. If you find a better way let me know.

kingkongfan1 wrote:

Kenzu wrote: bring doom to the game by leading to a hyperinflation,

read below...

13 Nov 09:53:58...

Buy Turns with your Kuwal
Displaying up to 4 best Offers
You receive You pay Rate
900 Turns 1,800,000,000,000 Kuwal [1:2,000,000,000]
Pay Kuwal
to receive 900 Turns.

don't know about anyone else, but the above is what I call HYPERINFLATION, don't know if someone actually paid 2,000,000,000 per for AT's, or if the offer was pulled cause nobody would touch it... all I do know for sure is the price of AT's has gotten so high that farming/raiding is no longer possible profitably...

This hyperinflation occured because players are growing extremely fast.
Without AE, people would pay 10 times more by now.

Anything which increases growth speed of players increases the inflation.

Increasing the number of AT active players get will not fight inflation, it will increase the inflation further.

You can imagine that kuwal is cash, and AT is gold.
Increasing the production of AT twentyfold (which is going to happen if we can farm inactive players AT) will lower AT prices almost twentyfold.
This doesn't stop inflation, but it will destroy the value of all AT that people already have AND destroy the value of AT that people produce themselves.

If a country has 10 tons of gold
and some technology is researched which allows gold to be syntetically produced for 1 tenth of a price easily, markets will become flooded with gold and the countries 10 tons of gold will lose value extremely fast.

kingkongfan1 wrote:

Admin wrote:

kingkongfan1 wrote:all I do know for sure is the price of AT's has gotten so high that farming/raiding is no longer possible profitably...

This is the kind of logic I cannot agree with though.
Even if everyone would start asking 500 units per AT right now then everyone else will raid again once their farms hit 700 uu per hit or they can get 1 bil kuwal

Then let me try to explain it this way...

the last AT's I purchased from the GM were 39,000,000 per, now using farming as the example, (I have not done the raid value yet). that means that to "break even" on any farm I do I have to make 390,000,000 on the hit. (39,000,000 X 10 = AT cost). so to actually make a profit I need more than 390,000,000 per hit to make a profit, & finding a 400,000,000 farm is like finding a needle in a haystack...

also if I did my math correctly, there is no way in hell I will pay 90,000,000 per AT, which is what your above example has AT's priced at,,, that would mean a farm hit of 900,000,000 to break even, which is over twice as much as I have to hit now to "break even", I would need to hit for 1,000,000,000 for a "profit"...

Whether you agree with my thinking or not, there are more players that think like I do than I think you realize...

Just because you can't make the profit doesn't mean someone else can't.

It might be hard to find a 400 million kuwal 0 def farm, but it is quite easy to find a 2500 uu per hit raid (value 437 million per hit).
And farming an active with a profit over 400 million is also very easy, since farming actives usually yields profits of a couple billion per hit.

Since you can't make the profit, you should also be selling your AT for 39 million per piece.
Everyone who can make profit with that will buy your turns.

I myself am also selling turns for 39 million per piece, and I sold half a thousand within 12 hours after placing them on the market. I guess people do want them if they buy them that fast.

seaborgium wrote:

Kenzu wrote:That's only because someone bought the last ones of the market and no one added fresh ones. If you see that happening you should place some of yours for a price you would like to have. There will be always someone who will pay more than what you can make when using it yourself

I would like to put some on at a price I want. The market won't allow me to put them on over the price of 49m each.
I would like to point out the fact that I can nab more then I sell ATs for.

Then both you and kingkongfan will benefit a lot if he sells his AT for 39 million which he considers very expensive to you, and you buy them, since you can make profit with it.

Admin wrote:

kingkongfan1 wrote:
Whether you agree with my thinking or not, there are more players that think like I do than I think you realize...

I am fully aware that many players still believe this weird logic of "higher AT price = less profit" and believe me, it saddens me extremely.
So far, the only cure I found was time so the people to realize the truth on their own one by one. If you find a better way let me know.

I will try to explain.

Simplified example:
On Aderan Wars, the average kuwal production of inactives is increasing, because while players who quit playing one year ago had much lower incomes than players who quit playing recently.
That's one of the reasons, why farmers can steal more kuwal per hit.
Since they can steal much more per hit, they are willing to pay much more per AT.
If before they stole 30 million per hit, and paid 20 million for 10 AT, and now they can steal 300 million per hit, then it means that if 10 AT cost 20 million, their profit increases from 10 million to 280 million, which convinces more people to farm. Since there is only limited number of attack turns, people who still want to farm, will have to pay more for the AT than competition. And so they will pay more and more per AT until the profits they make will be so low, that enough players decide not to farm anymore, and simply save time and sell their turns instead. This will lead to AT prices increase from maybe 20 million per 10 AT to 250 million per 10 AT.

The AT prices only increase, because people are willing to pay more for them
and they are willing to pay more for them, because they can steal more kuwal in a hit than before.

Admin wrote:

kingkongfan1 wrote:so to actually make a profit I need more than 390,000,000 per hit to make a profit, & finding a 400,000,000 farm is like finding a needle in a haystack...

So you want to tell me that after prices would quadruple, people would still attack for 250 mil kuwal and make a loss instead of letting the farms accumulate more kuwal which means the 400 mil farms would become as regular as the current 250 mil ones?
Fyi, the latter's the option that has been going on forever on these games.
By your logic you shouldn't have farms with more than 300-400k kuwal out.

kingkongfan1 wrote: Whether you agree with my thinking or not, there are more players that think like I do than I think you realize...

I am fully aware that many players still believe this weird logic of "higher AT price = less profit" and believe me, it saddens me extremely.
So far, the only cure I found was time so the people to realize the truth on their own one by one. If you find a better way let me know.

I agree with you to a point, I know a lot of people grabbed smarter if an alliance leader pointed out things or gave some directions. I can look at 4 alliances and see some very bad/poor accounts. I mean the levels they have vs the tech they have. The amount of units trained due to poor levels and techs.

Kenzu use spoliers, I didn't bother reading it too much crap to sort.

Spoiler:

@ Kenzu - selling AT's is not something I plan on doing anytime soon, as they are too hard to come by... Also I cannot ever see me paying 2,000,000,000 or more per AT...

kingkongfan1 wrote:@ Kenzu - selling AT's is not something I plan on doing anytime soon, as they are too hard to come by... Also I cannot ever see me paying 2,000,000,000 or more per AT...

Well given enough time you will. In SGW I never thought I would see the day 1K AT went for 1 trill naq, but that is a going price now. Of course making 50 to 100 bill per turn in income is nothing there either, so given enough time and growth you can pay that for AT.


What Kenzu can't understand is people actually wanting to play this game instead of logging in 1 or 2 times a day to bank, trade, and train. Actually playing by expending time and preforming actions is something foreign or alien to his strategy when it comes to these types of games. I mean we all play differently and want different things from a game, so naturally we will never agree on certain points.

seaborgium wrote:

Kenzu use spoliers, I didn't bother reading it too much crap to sort.

I don't like spoilers and I don't recommend anyone to use spoilers who want others to read what's inside and reply to them.

kingkongfan1 wrote:

Spoiler:

@ Kenzu - selling AT's is not something I plan on doing anytime soon, as they are too hard to come by... Also I cannot ever see me paying 2,000,000,000 or more per AT...

Just delete the part you don't want others to see. There is no need to waste your time putting it into a spoiler.

Nomad wrote:

kingkongfan1 wrote:@ Kenzu - selling AT's is not something I plan on doing anytime soon, as they are too hard to come by... Also I cannot ever see me paying 2,000,000,000 or more per AT...

Well given enough time you will. In SGW I never thought I would see the day 1K AT went for 1 trill naq, but that is a going price now. Of course making 50 to 100 bill per turn in income is nothing there either, so given enough time and growth you can pay that for AT.

What Kenzu can't understand is people actually wanting to play this game instead of logging in 1 or 2 times a day to bank, trade, and train. Actually playing by expending time and preforming actions is something foreign or alien to his strategy when it comes to these types of games. I mean we all play differently and want different things from a game, so naturally we will never agree on certain points.

Aparently you can't understand that doing repetitive actions like a robot for hours isn't playing. I have nothing against making this game more interesting by adding features that allow people to spend more time by doing interesting things. By interesting I mean things that require a brain. Be it trading, strategic thinking, chatting, researching, organising an alliance, but it's definitely not zombie-like clicking without thinking.

Territories which can be captured and troops that can be deployed there and moved strategically would be an interesting thing to be added for example.

A game that increases play time per day simply by forcing people to do repetitive things much more than before is a failed game. An update which forces players to spend more time on the game without giving a benefit to the server as a whole and without adding proper new features is not worth doing.

An update which destroys the game economy, like the steal-AT update is not only not worth doing, but should be sent there where it belongs. To a rubbish bin.
Or, you could of course make the update thus forcing Aderan Wars to join the group of games known as EPIC FAILURES.

1. please make sure to quote the right person..
2. I agree stealable ATs is useless as the idea admin has won't do anything for people, as you only created 48 a day, and even playing your form of play there won't be any to steal.
3. I agree that just mashing buttons is wrong, and with the current losses, you have to save up and war smartly or else end up losing.
Please don't bring in trade as yours and admins PTR update took that away.
I have many times on SGW just spied then messaged people offering them a value for the ATs they have just going to waste. However I picked my choices carefully. I offered them something aroudn 40-60% of the market as if they couldn't find the time to do it then I not paying them more for me doing the work and looking for trade partners.

Galactic market is a great way to trade.

And even though private market has an impact on trade ratio, I still use it a lot.

the idea with talking to people to trade with them is a good one. Do you use it here too?

nope, my trade ratio is jacked. and the way I get ATs from the players in SGW would jack up my trade ratio here as it gives me an advantage over another player and god forbid we allow that to happen.

Then tell them to sell their AT on the galactic market and you buy there.

This will allow sellers to earn more, and at the same time be more fair to buyers as the highers bidder will get the goods.

Why in the hell would I tell someone to do that, why would I do that kinda work?
Let them figure it out. did you not read what I wrote?

yes I have

You can do it to help these players become more successful.
Also, if they place 6000 AT at once, it's unlikely someone will buy all of them at once, and you might end up buying a lot of them.
It will also help you lower the AT prices which will give you a temporary boost in profits per hit.

I don't help anyone unless it is to help me. So the only players I help are those in my alliance or my friends.
I don't buy AT from the GM, cost to much.
I just wait for ATs to make, or buy them from admin.

Give it up Seaborgium, Kenzu has no grasp on the strategies most alliances use. Refusing to sell resources to an enemy who will use them against you is just beyond his grasp.


@ Kenzu,,,

if they place 6000 AT at once, it's unlikely someone will buy all of them at once

Let do a test, you put 6K AT on the GM at a decent rate, and I'll show you what someone can and can not do.

Here is a hint

Spoiler:

@ Admin, I give you permission to verify if there is any doubt to the validity of that spoiler.

Special Agent 47 wrote:@ Admin, I give you permission to verify if there is any doubt to the validity of that spoiler.

Not that I would go and confirm or deny anything like that even if people wanted me to do so.

Well since he standing so close to you, I'm sure you can tell him its true, if he should ask you


If he just takes my word, and tries the test I'm sure he won't need to ask.

holy jingle balls i want that much in my bank

um guys, if ur gonna just argue and not contribute/argue against my suggestion, please do take it to PM.

PS: Can I have 6k AT, it will be really useful

goku1719 wrote:Can I have 6k AT, it will be really useful

sorry, only 3,161 on the market, cost you 120,870,997,825 kuwal, it definately would be useful, but who can afford them?

i can but i do buy them not worth it.

I always find Kenzu's responses interesting especially the contradictions.

Kenzu has stated elsewhere that non SS players are not at a disadvantage but I note that whenever we see any discussions of this type all of his suggestions centre around features of the game that are not available to non SS plasyers.

Admin has stated else where when asked that the ratio between non SS players and SS players is 2.5 to 1.

Since the GM and brokering is unavailable to non SS players how about making the buying and selling of resources in the Trade Centre only available to non SS players. This would then prevent SS players from purchasing cheaply from a limited pool only to sell again on an unrestricted market. It would also mean that the rates in the Trade Centre will more accurately reflect the usage of the resources because non SS players have to use the resources.

I've also seen comments that as AT prices increase then the profit from farming should increase as well and balance things out. This is only partially true. Increased profit from farming inactives will also mean a decrease in farming as more time will need to elapse between farming actions so that the inactive accounts can build up sufficient income.