Re: TMI against World Republic

by curumo Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:19 pm

What I think is funny that I still didn't get a reply to what I said... Oh and I will be repeating those questions for as long as I get an adequate response Wink

Also agree with everything Sea and Kong said Wink

by Gamniac Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:56 pm

curumo wrote:What I think is funny that I still didn't get a reply to what I said... Oh and I will be repeating those questions for as long as I get an adequate response

Don't see you repeating much. Neutral

If you were talking about this:

curumo wrote:
[03 Jun] 11:51 XXXXX 49939 46486 35,167,427,100 73,473,839,640

The attacker had 1/2 HALF of the defenders strike and their losses are the same ... mind someone explaining to me how the heck this works?

Maybe you could try dropping it in a bug thread?
Sounds like a goof in the programming or whatever, maybe admin's been re-double-checking his codes and put a comma wrong or something, I don't know.

BTW, what kind of mission is that log from? Destruction, Assault?

by curumo Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:06 pm

Assault. Gam, it may be a goof but it was used in an attack and successful massing of one of our members ... Still. I'd like an answer from either Martin those who coded it in - as to why they did it like this ...

by Manleva Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:06 am

Keinutnai wrote:Read this and you will know how it works:

In assaults for the kill:death ratio it is irrelevant who has what strike/defense action. What matters are techs and weapons employed.

If you have same tech and weapons as your enemy, then you will lose 20% more units if you assault him.
If your technology is 2 times higher than his, instead of having 20% more losses than him, you will have 40% less losses than him. (120%/2 = 60%)

Guys, forget what you saw in other browser games. Sending more guys will not improve your kill ratio. Better technology and better weapons will.

A very interesting concept however it does not work this way in reality because if it did my better Techs, Weapons and quantity of soldiers should have seen me loose less soldiers than you

by Gamniac Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:11 am

curumo wrote:Assault. Gam, it may be a goof but it was used in an attack and successful massing of one of our members ... Still. I'd like an answer from either Martin those who coded it in - as to why they did it like this ...

So drop it in a bug thread, better odds of admin actually seeing it.
Sure looks buggy/glitchy to me.

by Keinutnai Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:50 pm

It's time to post some battle results:

Yesterday we massed Paladius.

His 100+ billion defense is gone
and his population dropped by 6,446,066 military units including 2,700,000 million defense units with mobile artilleries.
from 48.7 to 42.3 million population.

His population dropped by 1,125,066 the day before yesterday, and then by another 5,321,000 yesterday.

His population dropped from 47,613,500
to 42,292,500 yesterday alone.

Our ratio was somewhere between 1.5:1 and 2.5:1

-----------------------------------------------
Reaper, the former leader of Company, which united with Commonwealth in 2009 to form the Imperium has been massed about 10 days ago.
His 124 billion defense did not stop us!
He lost roughly 5,000,000 units including 2,500,000 soldiers with MLRS.
(I will check and give more accurate numbers soon, because my data is elsewhere, but what I do know exactly is that he lost 2,500,000 soldiers with MLRS plus or minus 10,000.)

Following our massing he went on vacation.

TMI power fell from 5.6 to 4.6 trillion while WR power grew from 0.9 to 1.2 trillion power.

Current power is as follows:
Rank Name Leader Power War Experience Size
1 Red_Solo_Cup KingKongFan1 4,668,187,971,364 67,527,973,569 21
2 World_Republic_(TOC) Keinutnai 1,244,689,089,352 68,365,835,772 58

Manleva wrote:
Keinutnai wrote:Read this and you will know how it works:

In assaults for the kill:death ratio it is irrelevant who has what strike/defense action. What matters are techs and weapons employed.

If you have same tech and weapons as your enemy, then you will lose 20% more units if you assault him.
If your technology is 2 times higher than his, instead of having 20% more losses than him, you will have 40% less losses than him. (120%/2 = 60%)

Guys, forget what you saw in other browser games. Sending more guys will not improve your kill ratio. Better technology and better weapons will.

A very interesting concept however it does not work this way in reality because if it did my better Techs, Weapons and quantity of soldiers should have seen me loose less soldiers than you

It works, you simply neglected that I have personal bonus points in defense.
Imagine a guy with 300% tech and 30 points in def.
300% +30x1.35%= 345%
To have less losses than the 345% tech guy, you must attack with a tech 25% higher than 345% tech because of the 4%:5% ratio at assaults.
This means you need to 432% strike tech including personal bonus on attack to have less losses (if my calculation is correct).
It is possible it's only 345+25%, so only 370%.

Do you have 300% strike tech with all your personal bonus points in attack? If your answer is no, then this is also the answer to the question if you should kill more of my units when assaulting me.
The formula works, but it's important not to neglect personal bonus points.

--------------
And now back to battle results I believe 31 May missions haven't been reported:

Here some failed missions by TMI:
[13 Jun] 22:07 KingKongFan1 Defense Mission Failed 200,000 details
[31 May] 21:48 KingKongFan1 Defense Mission Failed 450,000 details
[31 May] 21:43 KingKongFan1 Sabotage Mission Failed 1,000,000 details

Here the first mission we did on reaper (following missions were obviously with slowly decreasing efficiency):

Assassination Mission Report

Under the cover of night, your 250,000 assassins sneak into reaper's realm with a malicious intent.
Your assassins engage their mission in the enemy realm, they attempt to locate their targets and assess the enemy assassin networks. After a brief analysis they engage their enemy and even though the mission is an success, some of your troops fall prey to the defending realms assassination squads. Those who return are able to present you the following report:

Enemy Agents Killed: 80,002

WR losses in this mission:18,750
TMI losses in this mission: 80,002
4.3:1 kill:death ratio

He lost millions of spies on that day. Somewhere between 2 and 3 million spies.

by Paladius Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:33 am

Good job Keinutnai, it's about time you massed me.

by kingkongfan1 Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:59 am

As of 6/15/2012 I have ordered the end of all hostile actions on world republic by any T.M.I/R.S.C. members. we are finished with this. as a side note it could take up to 72hrs. for every member to get the order. as such restitution will be paid for any act of hostility perpetrated on or after 6/18/2012*.

This is of course with the understanding that world republic shall end any further hostile actions. If world republic should so choose to continue, then we will be more than happy to resume our current activities.

(*) All reports should be made to me, with a copy of the "Battle Report".

by Gamniac Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:18 am

Until Kenzu makes any official statements, I have advised World Republic (I do not hold enough power to command them) to cease hostilities at 15 June 01:57 Game Time, in response to Kingkongfan1's statement.

(Twice the word statement in one sentence, not my finest writing, there.)

For now, I've got some account building to do. Maybe I'll be able to put up (more of) a fight next time.

by navblue Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:35 pm

This will be the last major war in this game. Until the end of time we will collect, grow, sit on defense and watch active player after active player leave the game until there is nothing but a server full of inactives and Keinutnai

by Keinutnai Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:06 pm

kingkongfan1 wrote:As of 6/15/2012 I have ordered the end of all hostile actions on world republic by any T.M.I/R.S.C. members. we are finished with this. as a side note it could take up to 72hrs. for every member to get the order. as such restitution will be paid for any act of hostility perpetrated on or after 6/18/2012*.

This is of course with the understanding that world republic shall end any further hostile actions. If world republic should so choose to continue, then we will be more than happy to resume our current activities.

(*) All reports should be made to me, with a copy of the "Battle Report".

Now that was unexpected. After the failed negotiations at the start of the month, I though the war would last another 1-2 months.

I have also ordered to seize all hostilities against TMI with an alliance wide message.

Does it mean that TMI is ready to sign a fair peace treaty now?

navblue wrote:This will be the last major war in this game. Until the end of time we will collect, grow, sit on defense and watch active player after active player leave the game until there is nothing but a server full of inactives and Keinutnai

You are painting a very bleak future. A similar future that I read already in 2009 or 2010. And look how many things happened since then. And back then the number of actives was similar to what it is now.

by navblue Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:14 pm

Keinutnai wrote:Does it mean that TMI is ready to sign a fair peace treaty now?

Whats the point in that? If you want us to sign a peace treaty it won't be a fair one.

by Gamniac Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:13 pm

navblue wrote:
Keinutnai wrote:Does it mean that TMI is ready to sign a fair peace treaty now?

Whats the point in that? If you want us to sign a peace treaty it won't be a fair one.

Okay, I'll bite.
What's your idea of a fair peace, aside of having WR remove its trash from its own front porch and take it to the dump, where it (the trash) belongs?

by kingkongfan1 Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:37 pm

Keinutnai wrote:
Does it mean that TMI is ready to sign a fair peace treaty now?

I'm sorry, did I not make myself clear in my previous post? then I will say it again. I have ordered the end of all "hostile acts of war" against world republic by any member of T.M.I. as long as there are no further attacks from world republic on any of our members, then this is over.

**EDIT**

it's like this, I do not really care whether you get rid of your vacated or not. what we needed was something that keinutnai would not budge on so we could stretch this out for as long as we wanted. which is exactly what we did. for a "peace treaty" to be warranted, world republic needs to possess something T.M.I. wants/needs, you don't. We started this, We are ending this. If world republic wants to continue then that is on them. any questions?

by Keinutnai Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:12 pm

kingkongfan1 wrote:
Keinutnai wrote:
Does it mean that TMI is ready to sign a fair peace treaty now?

I'm sorry, did I not make myself clear in my previous post? then I will say it again. I have ordered the end of all "hostile acts of war" against world republic by any member of T.M.I. as long as there are no further attacks from world republic on any of our members, then this is over.

**EDIT**

it's like this, I do not really care whether you get rid of your vacated or not. what we needed was something that keinutnai would not budge on so we could stretch this out for as long as we wanted. which is exactly what we did. for a "peace treaty" to be warranted, world republic needs to possess something T.M.I. wants/needs, you don't. We started this, We are ending this. If world republic wants to continue then that is on them. any questions?

Yes, I do. Since both sides are not interested at continuing the war I assume the war is over.
So is the war over or not?

If two sides agree that the war ends, this agreement is by definition a peace treaty. That's at least how I and wikipedia understand it.

by kingkongfan1 Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:09 am

Keinutnai wrote:
kingkongfan1 wrote:
Keinutnai wrote:
Does it mean that TMI is ready to sign a fair peace treaty now?

I'm sorry, did I not make myself clear in my previous post? then I will say it again. I have ordered the end of all "hostile acts of war" against world republic by any member of T.M.I. as long as there are no further attacks from world republic on any of our members, then this is over.

**EDIT**

it's like this, I do not really care whether you get rid of your vacated or not. what we needed was something that keinutnai would not budge on so we could stretch this out for as long as we wanted. which is exactly what we did. for a "peace treaty" to be warranted, world republic needs to possess something T.M.I. wants/needs, you don't. We started this, We are ending this. If world republic wants to continue then that is on them. any questions?

Yes, I do. Since both sides are not interested at continuing the war(*) I assume the war is over.
So is the war over or not?
(*) I never said We were not interested in continuing the war. what I said was...
kingkongfan1 wrote:
I have ordered the end of all "hostile acts of war" against world republic by any member of T.M.I. as long as there are no further attacks from world republic on any of our members, then this is over.

If two sides agree that the war ends, this agreement is by definition a peace treaty.(*)
(*) In response to this statement... If you want to refer to my statement above as a "peace treaty" then so be it, that is your choice. as long as I lead T.M.I. there will be no more "hostile acts of war" sanctioned against any member of world republic without provocation.

by Keinutnai Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:12 am

kingkongfan1 wrote:
Keinutnai wrote:
kingkongfan1 wrote:
Keinutnai wrote:
Does it mean that TMI is ready to sign a fair peace treaty now?

I'm sorry, did I not make myself clear in my previous post? then I will say it again. I have ordered the end of all "hostile acts of war" against world republic by any member of T.M.I. as long as there are no further attacks from world republic on any of our members, then this is over.

**EDIT**

it's like this, I do not really care whether you get rid of your vacated or not. what we needed was something that keinutnai would not budge on so we could stretch this out for as long as we wanted. which is exactly what we did. for a "peace treaty" to be warranted, world republic needs to possess something T.M.I. wants/needs, you don't. We started this, We are ending this. If world republic wants to continue then that is on them. any questions?

Yes, I do. Since both sides are not interested at continuing the war(*) I assume the war is over.
So is the war over or not?
(*) I never said We were not interested in continuing the war. what I said was...
kingkongfan1 wrote:
I have ordered the end of all "hostile acts of war" against world republic by any member of T.M.I. as long as there are no further attacks from world republic on any of our members, then this is over.

If two sides agree that the war ends, this agreement is by definition a peace treaty.(*)
(*) In response to this statement... If you want to refer to my statement above as a "peace treaty" then so be it, that is your choice. as long as I lead T.M.I. there will be no more "hostile acts of war" sanctioned against any member of world republic without provocation.

This opens 2 questions:
Will it still be over even when you hand over the leadership to someone else, say seaborgium? And how long are you planning to lead TMI?

by kingkongfan1 Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:17 am

Keinutnai wrote:
This opens 2 questions:
Will it still be over even when you hand over the leadership to someone else, say seaborgium? And how long are you planning to lead TMI?

Answer to question 1- can you tell me what will happen with world republic when you no longer lead it? no, I do not think so. I am not able to see into the future so I cannot say what will happen when I am no longer the leader of T.M.I. that is the best answer I can give you. as for seaborgium I have not heard from him in weeks, for all I know he has left AW.

Answer to question 2 - honestly not for much longer. as soon as the members decide who is quitting AW, & who is staying, then we will see who is interested in taking over leadership, have a vote, & sometime in the near future an announcement will be made stating who the new leader is.

the facts are this plain & simple. take what I offer for what it is, & deal with what comes later when it gets here, or say the word & I'll order the guys to go back to attacking. I really do not care which.

by Manleva Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:43 am

Keinutnai wrote:
kingkongfan1 wrote:As of 6/15/2012 I have ordered the end of all hostile actions on world republic by any T.M.I/R.S.C. members. we are finished with this. as a side note it could take up to 72hrs. for every member to get the order. as such restitution will be paid for any act of hostility perpetrated on or after 6/18/2012*.

This is of course with the understanding that world republic shall end any further hostile actions. If world republic should so choose to continue, then we will be more than happy to resume our current activities.

(*) All reports should be made to me, with a copy of the "Battle Report".

Now that was unexpected. After the failed negotiations at the start of the month, I though the war would last another 1-2 months.

>>> I have also ordered to seize all hostilities against TMI with an alliance wide message. <<<

Does it mean that TMI is ready to sign a fair peace treaty now?

navblue wrote:This will be the last major war in this game. Until the end of time we will collect, grow, sit on defense and watch active player after active player leave the game until there is nothing but a server full of inactives and Keinutnai

You are painting a very bleak future. A similar future that I read already in 2009 or 2010. And look how many things happened since then. And back then the number of actives was similar to what it is now.

I have highlighted the only bit of the above post that is relevant to the following.

Well, All I can say is that it appears from the following that some your alliance members apparently take no notice of your messages.

[15 Jun] 21:22 There was an attack mission against you
[15 Jun] 21:22 There was an attack mission against you
[15 Jun] 21:22 There was an attack mission against you
[15 Jun] 21:22 There was an attack mission against you

[15 Jun] 21:22 SA48 452,307,769 Kuwal Stolen 10 10036 0 5,170,342,852 66,257,617,854
[15 Jun] 21:22 SA48 502,627,755 Kuwal Stolen 10 10506 0 5,235,750,113 65,614,340,011
[15 Jun] 21:22 SA48 636,378,836 Kuwal Stolen 10 10998 0 5,902,675,852 64,327,784,325
[15 Jun] 21:22 SA48 767,926,518 Kuwal Stolen 10 11512 0 6,156,256,427 61,754,672,952

It looks very much like you need to teach some of your members how to Farm as SA48 could have quite easily made over 8 Bill for no losses.

At least it was nice to know someone from WR was at least interested in paying me a visit even if it's late.

by Gamniac Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:51 am

Manleva wrote:
[15 Jun] 21:22 There was an attack mission against you
[15 Jun] 21:22 There was an attack mission against you
[15 Jun] 21:22 There was an attack mission against you
[15 Jun] 21:22 There was an attack mission against you

[15 Jun] 21:22 SA48 452,307,769 Kuwal Stolen 10 10036 0 5,170,342,852 66,257,617,854
[15 Jun] 21:22 SA48 502,627,755 Kuwal Stolen 10 10506 0 5,235,750,113 65,614,340,011
[15 Jun] 21:22 SA48 636,378,836 Kuwal Stolen 10 10998 0 5,902,675,852 64,327,784,325
[15 Jun] 21:22 SA48 767,926,518 Kuwal Stolen 10 11512 0 6,156,256,427 61,754,672,952

It looks very much like you need to teach some of your members how to Farm as SA48 could have quite easily made over 8 Bill for no losses.

At least it was nice to know someone from WR was at least interested in paying me a visit even if it's late.

Urgh, that imbecile...
He, and the rest of WR, got messaged twice (one of which a standing order from Kenzu) to cease all hostile actions, then I get asked by him who TMI is (apparently, he didn't notice the name change) and now he does this. Either he got hacked or there's a bad case of extended brain-fart right there.

That's the danger of a large Alliance...

by Keinutnai Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:28 am

Gamniac wrote:
Manleva wrote:
[15 Jun] 21:22 There was an attack mission against you
[15 Jun] 21:22 There was an attack mission against you
[15 Jun] 21:22 There was an attack mission against you
[15 Jun] 21:22 There was an attack mission against you

[15 Jun] 21:22 SA48 452,307,769 Kuwal Stolen 10 10036 0 5,170,342,852 66,257,617,854
[15 Jun] 21:22 SA48 502,627,755 Kuwal Stolen 10 10506 0 5,235,750,113 65,614,340,011
[15 Jun] 21:22 SA48 636,378,836 Kuwal Stolen 10 10998 0 5,902,675,852 64,327,784,325
[15 Jun] 21:22 SA48 767,926,518 Kuwal Stolen 10 11512 0 6,156,256,427 61,754,672,952

It looks very much like you need to teach some of your members how to Farm as SA48 could have quite easily made over 8 Bill for no losses.

At least it was nice to know someone from WR was at least interested in paying me a visit even if it's late.

Urgh, that imbecile...
He, and the rest of WR, got messaged twice (one of which a standing order from Kenzu) to cease all hostile actions, then I get asked by him who TMI is (apparently, he didn't notice the name change) and now he does this. Either he got hacked or there's a bad case of extended brain-fart right there.

That's the danger of a large Alliance...

Please dont insult others.

Well, on Aderan wars we use the terms hostile actions and hostile missions to refer to all missions except spying, farming and raiding. So farming is ok per se. However it still doesn't make sense to waste ones units like that. I will talk to SA48 about it. He will have to compensate Manleva for the losses he did, no matter how small they are.

I assume kingkongfan1 also meant that farming is ok (as long as it's in line with farming policy. If not in line, a compensation has to be paid.) Obviously SA48 didn't know what he was doing. But he will have to pay the compensation anyway.

kingkongfan1 wrote:

The reason why I was asking was to be clear if this is merely an indefinite ceasefire, or an end of war. That's all. Now it is clear you meant an end of war.

by Manleva Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:46 am

@ Keinutnai

Please do not send any compensation as it will be rejected. Note that I have not made any contact directly with any of the WR leadership regarding this breach of either TMI or WR Farming Policies

I can make an educated guess as to the reason behind SA48's actions.
I mealy made the post because it this action was undertaken after you had advised you alliance to cease any hostile actions. From my point of view a bad farming attack at this time would definitely be classed as hostile especially when WR's farming policy would mean that a minimum profit required would have been over 4 Bill

Oh, by the way I happen to like Gamniac's post and to be honest I do not see anything Insulting in it rather I find it to be lighthearted and amusing.

by kingkongfan1 Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:47 pm

Keinutnai wrote:
I assume kingkongfan1 also meant that farming is ok (as long as it's in line with farming policy. If not in line, a compensation has to be paid.) Obviously SA48 didn't know what he was doing. But he will have to pay the compensation anyway.
I do not advocate farming active players, but there are plenty who insist upon doing it. as long as it is within our policy, farming is allowed.

by Keinutnai Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:18 pm

Manleva wrote:@ Keinutnai

Please do not send any compensation as it will be rejected. Note that I have not made any contact directly with any of the WR leadership regarding this breach of either TMI or WR Farming Policies

I can make an educated guess as to the reason behind SA48's actions.
I mealy made the post because it this action was undertaken after you had advised you alliance to cease any hostile actions. From my point of view a bad farming attack at this time would definitely be classed as hostile especially when WR's farming policy would mean that a minimum profit required would have been over 4 Bill

Oh, by the way I happen to like Gamniac's post and to be honest I do not see anything Insulting in it rather I find it to be lighthearted and amusing.

In any case thank you for informing me about this. I took the appropriate measures.

kingkongfan1 wrote:
Keinutnai wrote:
I assume kingkongfan1 also meant that farming is ok (as long as it's in line with farming policy. If not in line, a compensation has to be paid.) Obviously SA48 didn't know what he was doing. But he will have to pay the compensation anyway.
I do not advocate farming active players, but there are plenty who insist upon doing it. as long as it is within our policy, farming is allowed.

ok

by Keinutnai Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:32 pm

I would like to congratulate all participants of this war. Well done everyone! It was a lot of fun. Very Happy

Since the war is over, I calculated all losses and kills of World Republic from April 1 (4 hours after breakout of war) until today (17 June).

UU price = 375.000 kuwal
Taking into account all soldiers, mercs, spies, assassins, workers and miners killed and lost and all weapons destroyed and lost. Farming and raiding is ignored.

Unit losses and weapon losses:

WR lost: 157,149,464 units + 72.9 trillion kuwal in weapons
TMI lost: 171,132,578 units + 108.5 trillion kuwal in weapons

Losses in kuwal value:

WR losses: 146,912,576,455,100
TMI losses: 189,701,032,418,800

1.29 : 1 ratio in WR favor.

Exact kills and losses:

TMI losses:
Attack Soldiers Killed 79,125,318
Attack Mercs Killed 452,368
Defense Soldiers Killed 11,530,039
Defense Mercs Killed 31,944
Spies Killed 20,296,831
Assassins Killed 53,729,021
Workers Killed 1,940,145
Miners Killed 4,026,912
Fighters Destroyed 0
Fighter Value Destroyed 0
Space Stations Destroyed 0
Weapons Destroyed 108,469,381,771,300

WR losses:
Items Lost
Attack Soldiers Lost 29,246,425
Attack Mercs Lost 3,905
Defense Soldiers Lost 50,315,712
Defense Mercs Lost 22,778
Spies Lost 17,742,485
Assassins Lost 51,031,876
Workers Lost 2,330,058
Miners Lost 6,456,225
Fighters Lost 0
Fighter Value Lost 0
Space Stations Lost 0
Weapons Lost 72,866,320,525,100

Interesting fact: This was the first war where WR was not the alliance which killed the most miners and workers. In this war actually TMI killed more miners and workers than us. I didnt expect that! Well done TMI!

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