Peace Treaty between World Republic and Imperium

:p i like the war no rules it's easier

Kenzu wrote:

seaborgium wrote:i don't see the need to for the treaty to be so complex...

how hard is it to say,

only kuwal and raids are fine, as long as profitable. No harm operations.
Can only hit each other if coming to aid of ally.
Since you all seem to have it posted on the forums who allied to who.
wow less then 5 lines go ME

and what if someone does 2 assaults on someone from the other alliance?
What if one member of one alliance masses another member of the other alliance?

ok, then my list would be a little longer, mind you mine is only 3 so far

repay 90% of the total losses.

ok its up to 4 lines now. What other gay crap does it need?
no offense but ever heard of the KISS method?

seaborgium wrote:

Kenzu wrote:

seaborgium wrote:i don't see the need to for the treaty to be so complex...

how hard is it to say,

only kuwal and raids are fine, as long as profitable. No harm operations.
Can only hit each other if coming to aid of ally.
Since you all seem to have it posted on the forums who allied to who.
wow less then 5 lines go ME

and what if someone does 2 assaults on someone from the other alliance?
What if one member of one alliance masses another member of the other alliance?

ok, then my list would be a little longer, mind you mine is only 3 so far

repay 90% of the total losses.

ok its up to 4 lines now. What other gay crap does it need?
no offense but ever heard of the KISS method?

Let me give Kiss a shot
Peace Treaty between (O) GD F.I.P & TI

1. only profitable farms & Raids no War Missions .

2.Use War Missions at your own Risk As your allies may not back you up .

3 .If a war mission is used try to keep the issue to a one one one fight , or a fight between the DIRECT VICTIMS
and THE AGGRESSOR . If settled through Diplomacy negotiate Damage Compensation .

4. Only get Alliance Leadership involved as a LAST RESORT .

5. If no peace can be maintained or if this Treaty is broken too many times than , The Leader Ship of each Alliance Involved in this Treaty Will work Hard too maintain Peace , And will only go to War as a last Resort .

I think thats sums everything up , plus how to deal with problems that Might Happen .

you all are making it much more complex then even i would go. how about dont use hostile attacks on ANYONE and then no1 should use hostile attacks on you. If you remember 1 of the reasons we are in this war is because a member of WR used a hostile attack on a member of TIE.

If you sab, assn, destruct, assault, whether it is successful or a fail expect to have the same done to you. If you dont want a war with any1 from TIE dont use hostile attacks. thats the easy way i can put it

I support a peace treaty, period.

ian wrote:I m personally for peace Kenzu - but i suspect if i try and sell a peace deal to The Imperium memberbase - before they ve had chance to exact a meaningful revenge - that i ll be strung up and impaled on pikes.

Besides - rflash and danuboy need to be dealt with first, as do about 20+ other members of World Republic who are worth massing - before a peace treaty can be considered.

Meaningful revenge? I attacked one member of TIE... and how is being massed 4 times meaningful revenge for that? If we go on meaningful revenge, I'd still be out for blood. Among others, SpiderX and Blackeagle would never have rest.

"members of WR who are worth massing" pray tell, which members are worth massing that you haven't already massed at least once?

Nice to see you finally show your face Kismet, hope your feeling better then when we were waiting for you to stand up for WR as a diplomat.

As for your "which members are worth massing that haven't been" well I would have to say all of WR. Seems WR is full of some very good and very honorable people. Sad their leader isn't either. For those to blind to read between the lines, that is a complement paid to all of WR that I have interacted with save the fence post known as Kenzu.

Now on the Kenzu and this foolishness. Do you have any idea what the outcome of this mockery of a peace treaty will be? Let me show you some major flaws, inconsistencies, and moronic ideals behind it.

First, WHY in the world would the whole of The Imperium, WR, and GD all want peace? If we all have peace the game dies. What do you think will happen to the few left outside this agreement? The effect on the game could potentially be catastrophic. These 3 groups represent more then 90% of the active player base I am willing to bet.

As for the treaty itself, you seem to have failed to even understand why the war occurred to begin with since you have completely failed to address any of the reasons the war happened. YOU have still not made amends for the sins of your past, your underhanded actions, your lies, your slander, none of it. You want peace, you best address those issues, and not with the same blind attitude you have carried so far.

Now, there is no section explaining vendettas, so if I want to fight you in a 1 vs 1 there is no provision covering that and it will be a necessity. You have many "fans".

C8 is a complete and total joke. If any limitation should be put in place it should be a %. Your just trying to play to WR's weak and feeble economies. Every alliance should decide it policy on it. If someone wants to have 100% miners that is their call. If you decide to mass for no other reason then that then it should be complete and total war. Anything less is unacceptable.

Your plans for farming are completely bogus as well. The way you have it written up no one needs a defense. All they need is a massive strike. Let me use myself as an example. Signing this means I could build a rank 1 strike and hit every member of WR every turn for kewal and UU. There would be nothing for WR to do in retaliation. Same for Rflash. If they are involved in the treaty. He could build a massive strike to farm anyone he wanted. The way to stop farming is to destroy the strike, and/or the account doing the farming. So this completely nulls the treaty from the start.

Additionally the part about raiding is stupid as well. Any account can be massed using the raiding feature and would be legal by this treaty. Remember it doesn't have to be profitable to be legal.

If you want peace you will revisit the reasons the war started. It amuses me greatly to see you talk of how "slow" the peace talks are going, yet you won't do what is necessary to put an end to all this. We waited for 3 weeks. I personally asked for weeks for a diplomat to step forward to work with, then you sweep in behind Rflash and others to do as much damage as you could. Now you want to hurry up with "Peace". Not only that but it appears that your willing to leave Rflash and his boys out to dry as long as you get your precious peace treaty.


One thing I will say, I have come to appreciate WR as an alliance. Its membership has some class and honor. I still can not see what they see in you, but obviously they see something you don't display on these forums.

Ok, I have to say this....
I know this maybe out of line considering i am TI. But why is the 3week response coming into play?

talking with Lord Ishurue, we figured it takes avg 4 days worth of STs to just mass an account, so that leaves how much other stuff to do? so it would take 3-4 accounts to clean just 1 account OR 1 account to clean an account with a month worth of STs.

I think this war would be over if it wasn't for STs. I love the Idea of STs, i think it adds more thought then 'pressing a button' as SGW is. But it SLOWS the game to a craw. This war has been over a month and theres been 2(3 maybe) strikes total. Due to lack of funds, STs.

As smashing someone for crossing me is fun and great, this game just doesn't allow it.

Vesper wrote:you all are making it much more complex then even i would go. how about dont use hostile attacks on ANYONE and then no1 should use hostile attacks on you. If you remember 1 of the reasons we are in this war is because a member of WR used a hostile attack on a member of TIE.

If you sab, assn, destruct, assault, whether it is successful or a fail expect to have the same done to you. If you dont want a war with any1 from TIE dont use hostile attacks. thats the easy way i can put it

Because there will be a hostile action sooner or later. Especially if some newbies make one.

I still remember TIE being pissed at WR for failed assassin missions some of our newbies made.
Ridiculous if you ask me.

Special Agent 47 wrote:Nice to see you finally show your face Kismet, hope your feeling better then when we were waiting for you to stand up for WR as a diplomat.

As for your "which members are worth massing that haven't been" well I would have to say all of WR. Seems WR is full of some very good and very honorable people. Sad their leader isn't either. For those to blind to read between the lines, that is a complement paid to all of WR that I have interacted with save the fence post known as Kenzu.

Now on the Kenzu and this foolishness. Do you have any idea what the outcome of this mockery of a peace treaty will be? Let me show you some major flaws, inconsistencies, and moronic ideals behind it.

First, WHY in the world would the whole of The Imperium, WR, and GD all want peace? If we all have peace the game dies. What do you think will happen to the few left outside this agreement? The effect on the game could potentially be catastrophic. These 3 groups represent more then 90% of the active player base I am willing to bet.

As for the treaty itself, you seem to have failed to even understand why the war occurred to begin with since you have completely failed to address any of the reasons the war happened. YOU have still not made amends for the sins of your past, your underhanded actions, your lies, your slander, none of it. You want peace, you best address those issues, and not with the same blind attitude you have carried so far.

Now, there is no section explaining vendettas, so if I want to fight you in a 1 vs 1 there is no provision covering that and it will be a necessity. You have many "fans".

C8 is a complete and total joke. If any limitation should be put in place it should be a %. Your just trying to play to WR's weak and feeble economies. Every alliance should decide it policy on it. If someone wants to have 100% miners that is their call. If you decide to mass for no other reason then that then it should be complete and total war. Anything less is unacceptable.

Your plans for farming are completely bogus as well. The way you have it written up no one needs a defense. All they need is a massive strike. Let me use myself as an example. Signing this means I could build a rank 1 strike and hit every member of WR every turn for kewal and UU. There would be nothing for WR to do in retaliation. Same for Rflash. If they are involved in the treaty. He could build a massive strike to farm anyone he wanted. The way to stop farming is to destroy the strike, and/or the account doing the farming. So this completely nulls the treaty from the start.

Additionally the part about raiding is stupid as well. Any account can be massed using the raiding feature and would be legal by this treaty. Remember it doesn't have to be profitable to be legal.

If you want peace you will revisit the reasons the war started. It amuses me greatly to see you talk of how "slow" the peace talks are going, yet you won't do what is necessary to put an end to all this. We waited for 3 weeks. I personally asked for weeks for a diplomat to step forward to work with, then you sweep in behind Rflash and others to do as much damage as you could. Now you want to hurry up with "Peace". Not only that but it appears that your willing to leave Rflash and his boys out to dry as long as you get your precious peace treaty.


One thing I will say, I have come to appreciate WR as an alliance. Its membership has some class and honor. I still can not see what they see in you, but obviously they see something you don't display on these forums.

The longer the war continues the more players will leave the game, because war on Aderan Wars is much more devastating to the economy than wars in other games. As far as I know more than 3 TIE members left since the start of the war. Continue the war for half a year and half the players will leave. I don't want Aderan Wars to end like that! Especially not in the first 3 years of playing.

It doesnt matter why war happened. If you will always bring up old things, there will never be peace. The French and Brtitish were at war for centuries, if they didnt throw that behind them, they would never have peace.

Obviously it would be a dumb move in this game to have miners. If 2 alliances all had members training 100% miners, alliance A would be peaceful and focusing on growth and alliance B would fill up their banks to deal a crippling blow on alliance A, one day alliance B would strike alliance A dead, even though they had a peace treaty over some little issue. It would happen, because the temptation to destroy a competitor once and for all would be too much of a temptation. We can all prevent that by the kill-the-miner policy.

If you build up rank 1 strike, say 1.5 billion strike and all big players build 1 billion defense, you cannot hit them for kuwal each turn, because they would produce 50 million kuwal and your repair costs would be 900 million kuwal. You would have to wait for 10 hours at least for a 50 million kuwal profit. If they built 1.5 billion defense, you would have to wait 15 hours for a profit of 50 million kuwal. In other words, that's when you really need a defense.

You have to brush on your diplomatic skills, because I never saw you talk in your posts that you propose a peace treaty we can accept and have peace, but I often see personal attacks in your posts and war like behaviour among other things.

You wrote on Nov 2 (that's more than 2 weeks after we have struck ian):
You can expect the next wave to be more severe, and effect more account. If you wish it, then the whole of WR can be involved though many of us had hoped to avoid such as that.

seaborgium wrote:Ok, I have to say this....
I know this maybe out of line considering i am TI. But why is the 3week response coming into play?

talking with Lord Ishurue, we figured it takes avg 4 days worth of STs to just mass an account, so that leaves how much other stuff to do? so it would take 3-4 accounts to clean just 1 account OR 1 account to clean an account with a month worth of STs.

I think this war would be over if it wasn't for STs. I love the Idea of STs, i think it adds more thought then 'pressing a button' as SGW is. But it SLOWS the game to a craw. This war has been over a month and theres been 2(3 maybe) strikes total. Due to lack of funds, STs.

As smashing someone for crossing me is fun and great, this game just doesn't allow it.

i believe SA47 is refering to TIE stopped hitting WR entirely. We launched our initial attack in response to WR attacking Ian. Other then that we didnt do anything hostile to them in 3 weeks, then WR did this counter attack. In the 3 week period of time that SA is refering to he requesed multiple times for some member of WR to step forward to he can discuss peace. No1 came forward and then WR launched another offensive while TIE was clearly trying to reach out to some other form of leadership in WR.

STs arent really the issue. both alliances have enough members to keep this war going indefinately. Reason this war is going on still is mainly because of the insane amount of kuwal required and that no1 from WR came forward in 3 entire weeks. Now WR is reaching out for peace and TIE is responding mixed. Some want peace and some dont.

Personally i dont really care. i am a bit annoyed by spending most of my income to prepare to mass people but this war has forced me to get some much needed upgrades and showed me a few flaws in my build. I usually concentrate on having a crazy military and a low income but on aderan i been working on growth lately to catch every1 since i started even later then most of The Commonwealth. With this war every1 is being brought down to my size while i increase my military to match or exceed theirs. Sorta gives me the added edge i needed to close the gap on every1 even more

Blah blah blah you kidding me? You want peace??? Lets cut all the crap and ill give you my personal reason for why im not interested remotely in a peace/cease-fire/world peace/all the little kids from all the countries running around holding hands together, because war is fun. So take your peace and shove it in your pipe and smoke it

We are having too much fun today to ever think about tommorow

Vesper wrote:STs arent really the issue. both alliances have enough members to keep this war going indefinately. Reason this war is going on still is mainly because of the insane amount of kuwal required and that no1 from WR came forward in 3 entire weeks. Now WR is reaching out for peace and TIE is responding mixed. Some want peace and some dont.

I would agree if everyone on both sides par took in the actions...

Vesper wrote:Personally i dont really care. i am a bit annoyed by spending most of my income to prepare to mass people but this war has forced me to get some much needed upgrades and showed me a few flaws in my build. I usually concentrate on having a crazy military and a low income but on aderan i been working on growth lately to catch every1 since i started even later then most of The Commonwealth. With this war every1 is being brought down to my size while i increase my military to match or exceed theirs. Sorta gives me the added edge i needed to close the gap on every1 even more

pfft, i know how you grew like you did
I been playing much less then you my friend and so far I am doing rather well. STs are an issue. with the way everyone is playing or not even playing.
let me toss some #s out.
# of STs per day = 96
# of STs needed for kuwal = 2, 48 hits a day
# of STs needed to raid = 3, 33 hits a day
# of STs to Assault = 35, 2.7 hits a day
# of STs to Hunt Assassins = 25, 3.8 hits a day
# of STs to do Invasion = 15, 6.4 hits a day
# of STs to do Destruction = 30, 3.2 hits a day

so lets take WR, 73 players total.
73*96 = 7008 STs
# of Kuwal hits = 3504
# of raid hits = 2336
# of Assaults = 200.2
# of Hunt Assassins = 280.3
# of invasions = 467.2
# of Destructions = 233.6

You can do any of these as long as your Strike is higher then there def, which we all know most people wouldn't do that so they would have strike teams take the def then smaller strikes take out other stuff

so on avg 11 hits distorys a def
so 11*35=385
7008 - 385 = 6623STs
Avg 15 hits to take out someone strike
15*30=450
6623-450 = 6173 STs
Next you would take out Assassins/coverts, now i haven't been told what it takes so i will use ingame math
avg account has 25k assassins, some much more some much less. the damage is 3.5-4.5% we will go with the avg again
4%
25,000*4% = 1k per hit
so 25 hits min to take out the assassins but mind you its 4% of the current not 4% of what they started with. Noone will clean out someones assassins so we will go wtih the 25 for simplex sake
25*25= 625
6173-625=5548

So now invasion
you get 1.1 for miners, .04 for works or .75 for both, AND .3 for each hit, i will go with the .75 for both. So we have someone 100k miners 150k workers
now i not sure if it is miners+works*.75 so that is what i am going with since it says both
250000*.75= 33,333 per hit
so we will go with 6 hits
15*6=90
5548-90=5458

So for 1 account you have used 1550 or 22% of your STs of 1 day. Which means at most 5 people per day. Which means to take on TI, 55 players total = 11 days thats if TI just sat there with there hands tied.

So consider this, Everything I just posted is based on the WHOLE alliance. and take out WHOLE accounts. 11 days to me in way to long. I understand what STs are for, and I like the idea. but I think some parts are a bit over costly.

As Kenuz said in another post(i think) the longer this war goes the more people will leave. The cost of war should be max 7 days worth of STs, but to be the other side of the coin, thats looking at a 73 person alliance taking on a 55 man alliance. If i did the math the other way, i say it would be closer to 24 days to take out WR. So the time is relative to the size of the alliance. So I would offer a suggestion to Admin, make the cost of war = to 7 days for size of alliance. Meaning if a 10 man alliance is warring a 10 day alliance, all the STs for 7 days on 1 side is enough to take out the other alliance in 7 days. I did have some of the math figured out but being at work kinda disrupts my train of thoughts a lot.

I await some others input in this.

no one is forcing you to divert STs to kill miners.
Additionally you dont need to fully mass a strike to cause significant damage.

I m sure if all you wanted to do is to mass enemy defs then you can certainly have them all down within a few days.
So ill obviously not make it possible to destroy accounts any faster than its possible now, that'd be silly. There would be no incentive for weaker accounts to surrender.

Admin, I was just pointing out what it takes to 'take' care of an account, it was only ment a little towards you but more over to the people on both sides bent on distinction.

I not sure how the 'There would be no incentive for weaker accounts to surrender.' fits. bc with the current setup, weaker accounts would almost never grow. cept to become better farms.

But its your game, I can only make observations, and comments.

seaborgium wrote:Admin, I was just pointing out what it takes to 'take' care of an account, it was only ment a little towards you but more over to the people on both sides bent on distinction.

I not sure how the 'There would be no incentive for weaker accounts to surrender.' fits. bc with the current setup, weaker accounts would almost never grow. cept to become better farms.

But its your game, I can only make observations, and comments.

Sure as hell better than the sgw/dune system of war. Mass everything on day 1, and for the weeks to follow, it's just a farm fest, since strikes are untouchable

oh yea, i like the system, to me its just a bit to far the other way. to be a fair balance would be the ability to destroy 80-90% of an account in 5 days.

But as I pointed out this was mainly to the people in the current war.

It looks like some people are just aching to fight and this war gives them the opportunity.

First, WHY in the world would the whole of The Imperium, WR, and GD all want peace? If we all have peace the game dies. What do you think will happen to the few left outside this agreement? The effect on the game could potentially be catastrophic. These 3 groups represent more then 90% of the active player base I am willing to bet.

So it boils down to either 90% of the active players at war with eachother or 10% having a very hard time with a much larger group. Is one of the reasons for the (continuation of the) war then that there are not enough active alliances of approximately equal size and power?
Would it help if ingame empire support enabled splitting up the larger alliances in order for at least some of the 90% to have peace, without forcing peace on everyone on the server? (I know TIE has just merged and thus gone into another direction, but the idea is not new and not mine.) Would the empires/alliances now at war be open for such a thing?

so an empire having 2 parts, 1 at war and 1 at peace?
You realize that the side at peace could fun the war and not have to worrya bout getting smashed, to me that's just a bad idea

You have no assurance whatsoever that someone is not funding a war, with or without empires.
If you read a post Ian made, in another game, The Commonwealth funded a war against another alliance causing the other alliance to think somebody else was funding the party waging the war, then waging war on the innocent party. Nothing is stopping the alliances in question to make it a full server battle by attacking anyone they suspect of (verbally) supporting their adversary, but it is not automatically an all or nothing war.

Regarding the suggestion that for the sake of the game, The Imperium and World Republic split up into smaller seperate alliances to better balance the game - i can tell you now thats not going to happen

The Commonwealth joined Aderan Wars 4months later than the other major alliances... within 3months of playing we had caught up and overtook all except The Company economically, and practically - militarily.

There is absolutely nothing stopping the smaller alliances with significant member bases (i.e. 8 - 10 players) from implementing common sense guidelines - and with a bit of activity - from also achieving the same feat and becoming a MAJOR power capable of inflicting serious damage on any of the main empires (The Imperium and World Republic).

Its not that The Imperium or World Republic are too powerful - its that the other alliances are too weak and incompetent. Thats simply how it is. If you want the game better balanced... i d recommend thinking up some idea's to encourage smaller alliances to work together more, and grow faster.

One idea i can think of in support of this is an ingame monetary fund system - where a % of each players income automatically goes into the IMF (note: Players shouldn't actually experience a drop of income ingame - so if a player makes 10million income a turn, and 1% of players income each turn goes to the IMF, that means 10,000,000 x 0.01 = 100,000 Kuwal... the player should still get 10,000,000 income... but the IMF get 100,000 kuwal - so it won't actually impact players ingame AT ALL).

You then implement a addittional ranking system, which records the economic strength (Unit Production and turn income) of a player on a certain point each week. Each week, the IMF (the game) automatically dishes out supplementary rewards to both individuals, and alliance's as a whole based on who has experienced the most economic growth - in terms of %.

Basing it upon % means the larger a player is... the much harder it is to achieve a high % growth I.e. the larger players now would struggle to experience a 2% economic growth a day - while a new player starting out (with a 100k income and 1 U.) within hours of playing could realistically achieve probably at least a 5000% growth.

You have various rewards for individuals... and also rewards for alliances. The nature of the rewards (and what has to be done to "win" the reward) will then hopefully help influence individual players and alliance's growth policies in order to win the rewards... - and the overall benefit will be that the IMF will hopefully result in individuals and alliances adopting policies which should ensure they become relatively successfull... thus better balancing the game.

Couple of potential rewards:

- Highest % economic increases for individuals per week
- Highest % economic increases for alliances per week (the prize would be divided between the members of the winning alliance equally - in the form of an broker from AW to the player)
- Highest increases in % of individual's army size invested into income units (thus an economic growth friendly policy)
- Highest increases in % of individual's income units invested in farmers
- Highest increases in % of Unit Production increases etc....

I m sure people can think of a lot more and hopefully get what i m trying to say. The game can basically use the IMF, and the resulting rewards - to influence players and alliance's approaches to the game to ensure they become successfull... simply in that a lot of players would work towards achieving the above rewards (and even if they fail to win them.. they would still be going in the right direction).

Anyway... back on topic:

Kenzu - i ll post in more detail later on... but since there is an apparent difference of opinion in The Imperium ranks on what we should do with regards to ending the war, i ll create a poll to test out where the majority of people's opinion lies.

yeah, thats not how i ment it lol sorry at work. The Company before WR got a hold of them had some of the highest income in the game.

Ian, I was trying to cater for the needs of those who want this war to never end as well as those who do want an end. If you want to wait for decent competition, it does take some time for new players to catch up and grow, so the war will take a while.

Jiro wrote:If you want to wait for decent competition, it does take some time for new players to catch up and grow, so the war will take a while.

Ian's point was that most people are too incompetent to ever grasp how to grow. They think growth is equal to building an ever bigger defense and covert.

Jiro wrote:Ian, I was trying to cater for the needs of those who want this war to never end as well as those who do want an end. If you want to wait for decent competition, it does take some time for new players to catch up and grow, so the war will take a while.

The solution to the problem your trying to sort out is a simple one

I ask the Imperium memberbase what they d like to happen, we then take their opinions into account, discuss things with the HC - and reach a decision based upon strategic implications, objectives we ve achieved/ failed to achieve thus far, Imperium memberbase opinion etc...

Those who disagree with whatever that decision may be (whether for or against continuiing war) have 2 very simple choices then:

- Respect it.
- Leave The Imperium.

No need to split the alliance into 2 halves with distinctly different foreign policies... as they then cease being a united force, and become disunited... in which case, whats the point in their even being called a empire if they can't agree upon something so fundamentally important such as war? There is no point.... lol

well i also shoud point out the most members of TIE have not slowed in growth a ton. TIE is still growing faster then most people despite being at war. The longer we are at war the better it is for us.

Prime example of this is Ian vs. Kenzu

kilo 17 2,797,370
Keinutnai 32 1,850,020

both started roughly the same size i believe

Admin lock this topic please - it is no longer of any use.

Kenzu/ World Republic. What can i say? I stated pretty damn clearly:

ian wrote:Though i should stress - if this is a ploy to get The Imperium to drop its guard and to relax a bit, while WR and its allies regroups for another offensive - it would be a very significant and catastrophic mistake since such conduct would mean we would (obviously) never trustWorld Republic again... and thus would not be prepared to consider a diplomatic solution in such an event. So i do hope this is a very real and honest effort at peace....

We gave you the courtesy of not touching World Republic while we began to proceed towards negotiations - despite obviously being able to eliminate World Republic's rebuilt accounts AGAIN.

Instead, you pay this courtesy back by launching yet another offensive against The Imperium while discussions were underway.

There will be absolutely no peace with World Republic. You speak of peace.... yet you do something completely differently and to the contary. You ve got your war now permanently untill World Republic disbands. You ve left The Imperium no choice in the matter since you ve proved you can't be trusted.