World Republic farming policy

by Kenzu Sun May 23, 2010 1:48 pm

From now on anyone who attacks a World Republic member must follow FIRE farming policy:
(Thus WR farming policy and FIRE farming policy are identical)

Defenders Defense ___ Minimum profit required

0 defense action ___ No minimum profit needed
1 to 200 million defense action ___ Minimum of 100million profit needed
200 million to 500 million defense action ___ Minimum of 200million profit needed
500 million to 1 billion defense action ___ Minimum of 350million profit needed
1 billion to 2 billion defense action ___ Minimum of 600million profit needed
over 2 billion defense action ___ Minimum of 1billion profit needed.

Losses are calculated as follows:

units lost * (uu value + training value + weapon lost) + attack turns value

If you loose 1000 defense supers armed with tanks, your loses ammount to:

1000*(175.000+150.000+308.000) +40.000.000
=673.000.000

These losses + minimum profit required must be higher than the ammount of kuwal you have stolen

------------------------------------------------------------------------

This farming policy is the same as FIRE farming policy and has identical rules.

WR protects members of FIRE (Mujengan and New Federation) against those who brake farming rules and don't repay damages caused.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the breach procedure, which World Republic has signed on Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:02 am.
This is the procedure to be used in solving breaches in the farming policy

Kenzu wrote:
ian wrote:Below is the proposed procedure for dealing with breaches by player's of any of the signatories farming policy:

The below will apply over a 30 period after any player in breach of a policy is last contacted concerning the breach. Another breach after that 30 day period expires will be treated as a first breach.

1st breach of alliance policy = education & warning PM sent to the player committing the breach, which educates the person on the farm policy and warns to wait for the target to have more kuwal out the next time.The player's leader is also contacted.

2nd breach of alliance policy = Another warning is issued, as well as another message to the alliance leader of the player in question - and compensation demanded. Compensation includes the full amount of kuwal stolen , Weapon cost , retraining cost, since TIE & FIRE & WR uses a different UU rate the UUs the victim lost will be sent directly plus 1% ( the 1% covers the direct send fee of 1% of goods sent )

3rd Breach of alliance policy, or a failure to provide compensation within 72hours of the 2nd warning being sent = Military force is allowed, and the player in question is not permitted to farm the alliance of the victim for a 14 day period after they are massed.

In the event of multiple breaches by a player before that player has been contacted by the alliance in question, that player shall be asked to refrain from farming those he committed his breaches on for a 10 day period, and officially warned. Further breaches after this within a 30 day period will be treated as a 2nd breach - with another warning and a demand for compensation issued, failure to compensate or more breaches will result in military action being used.

Note: The Multiple Breach Clause is not to be exploited. If the player who does multiple breaches is well aware of the alliance's policy, these breaches will be treated as seperate breaches - the clause only applies to those who are unaware of the policy and commit multiple breaches before being made aware.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Signed on behalf of The Imperium Empire

Ian - Senatorum Imperialis

Signed by World Republic

by Lord Ishurue Sun May 23, 2010 1:55 pm

Kenzu wrote:From now on anyone who attacks a World Republic member must follow FIRE farming policy:
(Thus WR farming policy and FIRE farming policy are identical)

Defenders Defense ___ Minimum profit required

0 defense action ___ No minimum profit needed
1 to 200 million defense action ___ Minimum of 100million profit needed
200 million to 500 million defense action ___ Minimum of 200million profit needed
500 million to 1 billion defense action ___ Minimum of 350million profit needed
1 billion to 2 billion defense action ___ Minimum of 600million profit needed
over 2 billion defense action ___ Minimum of 1billion profit needed.

Losses are calculated as follows:

units lost * (uu value + training value + weapon lost) + attack turns value

If you loose 1000 defense supers armed with tanks, your loses ammount to:

1000*(175.000+150.000+308.000) +40.000.000
=673.000.000

These losses + minimum profit required must be higher than the ammount of kuwal you have stolen

------------------------------------------------------------------------

This farming policy is the same as FIRE farming policy and has identical rules.

WR protects members of FIRE (Mujengan and New Federation) against those who brake farming rules and don't repay damages caused.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the breach procedure, which World Republic has signed on Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:02 am.
This is the procedure to be used in solving breaches in the farming policy

Kenzu wrote:
ian wrote:Below is the proposed procedure for dealing with breaches by player's of any of the signatories farming policy:

The below will apply over a 30 period after any player in breach of a policy is last contacted concerning the breach. Another breach after that 30 day period expires will be treated as a first breach.

1st breach of alliance policy = education & warning PM sent to the player committing the breach, which educates the person on the farm policy and warns to wait for the target to have more kuwal out the next time.The player's leader is also contacted.

2nd breach of alliance policy = Another warning is issued, as well as another message to the alliance leader of the player in question - and compensation demanded. Compensation includes the full amount of kuwal stolen , Weapon cost , retraining cost, since TIE & FIRE & WR uses a different UU rate the UUs the victim lost will be sent directly plus 1% ( the 1% covers the direct send fee of 1% of goods sent )

3rd Breach of alliance policy, or a failure to provide compensation within 72hours of the 2nd warning being sent = Military force is allowed, and the player in question is not permitted to farm the alliance of the victim for a 14 day period after they are massed.

In the event of multiple breaches by a player before that player has been contacted by the alliance in question, that player shall be asked to refrain from farming those he committed his breaches on for a 10 day period, and officially warned. Further breaches after this within a 30 day period will be treated as a 2nd breach - with another warning and a demand for compensation issued, failure to compensate or more breaches will result in military action being used.

Note: The Multiple Breach Clause is not to be exploited. If the player who does multiple breaches is well aware of the alliance's policy, these breaches will be treated as seperate breaches - the clause only applies to those who are unaware of the policy and commit multiple breaches before being made aware.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Signed on behalf of The Imperium Empire

Ian - Senatorum Imperialis

Signed by World Republic

FIRE will defend World Republic on this farming policy , under the farming breech procedure we have signed

Signed on behalf of FIRE . Lord Ishruue .

by Kenzu Sun May 23, 2010 1:57 pm

WR will obviously also defend FIRE on their farming policy , under the farming breech procedure which we have signed.

by ian Sun May 23, 2010 2:06 pm

And thus, the cycle is complete Rolling Eyes

In the word's of Master Yoda: "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering."

by seaborgium Sun May 23, 2010 2:56 pm

I been looking over this and thinking.
Fire can't defend WR nor can WR defend Fire. Each alliance is to defend themselves unless there you all are taking that 'friendship' treay you all signed to be set to 1 hit.

I think it would be better for all parties also less drama if you guys would just form 1 empire and stop being each others .......

by kingkongfan1 Sun May 23, 2010 4:01 pm

seaborgium wrote:I been looking over this and thinking.
Fire can't defend WR nor can WR defend Fire. Each alliance is to defend themselves unless there you all are taking that 'friendship' treay you all signed to be set to 1 hit.

I think it would be better for all parties also less drama if you guys would just form 1 empire and stop being each others .......

Kong is definately entertained now... I smell WAR, & it smells good... king

by Nomad Sun May 23, 2010 5:02 pm

1000*(175.000+150.000+308.000) +40.000.000
=673.000.000

whats the "+40,000" for?
175,000 = cost of UU(this rate changes)
150,000 = cost to train to Super
308,000 = cost of main battle tank

but whats the 40,000 for?

why does everyone come up with different policies LOL

by Kenzu Sun May 23, 2010 5:05 pm

Nomad wrote:1000*(175.000+150.000+308.000) +40.000.000
=673.000.000

whats the "+40,000" for?
175,000 = cost of UU(this rate changes)
150,000 = cost to train to Super
308,000 = cost of main battle tank

but whats the 40,000 for?

why does everyone come up with different policies LOL

40.000.000 = cost of 10 attack turns.
Obviously attack turns are not for free.

As you can see WR is not making a new policy, but is using the one that FIRE uses.

by ian Sun May 23, 2010 5:13 pm

kingkongfan1 wrote:
seaborgium wrote:I been looking over this and thinking.
Fire can't defend WR nor can WR defend Fire. Each alliance is to defend themselves unless there you all are taking that 'friendship' treay you all signed to be set to 1 hit.

I think it would be better for all parties also less drama if you guys would just form 1 empire and stop being each others .......

Kong is definately entertained now... I smell WAR, & it smells good...

I wouldn't say war is coming.

By and large myself and other's fully intend to comply with WR's farming policy. The only real issue is that there are a small portion of World Republic player's who we won't be following this policy regarding - namely those who meet both of the below criteria:

1.) They have a very large defence vs. their income size
2.) They haven't logged in for over 12hours or so.

In such an event - people like doxakk who consistently have 5billion+ kuwal out, despite having less than 2.5million income units (i.e. about 100million income - so well over a day's income out) and who only have such high amounts of kuwal out due to having very large defences vs. their income i.e. 7billion in Doxakk's case - then i think its fair to say if they get farmed they deserve it. Its these sort of people where abiding by WR's farming policy won't be happening.

Now... in such a scenario its going to be down to FIRE and World Republic whether they want to go to war (which is what will happen if a TIE member's massed) over farming hits on people who ve gone probably 16+ hours without logging in... and in most cases over 24hours.

Simply put: War will only happen if FIRE and World Republic decide they want to start protecting player's from profitable farming hits when those player's go extended periods of time without logging in.

If they elect to follow common-sense and actually don't have a issue when people like doxakk (24+hours without logging in to bank) get farmed - normally for profits of only about 400million instead of the 1billion required - then there is absolutely no reason for there to even be a crisis... let alone a war.

Its basically down to FIRE/ WR and whether common-sense is allowed to prevail.

by Lord Ishurue Sun May 23, 2010 5:35 pm

for FIRE farm policy , i didnt bother with the attack turns , the tiers sorta have it covered .

its very easy to do this . UU cost 175k + wep cost 308k for MBT + 150k ASs training = 633k

then multiply your loses by 633k to find cost for the farm .

by ian Sun May 23, 2010 5:36 pm

ian wrote:
kingkongfan1 wrote:
seaborgium wrote:I been looking over this and thinking.
Fire can't defend WR nor can WR defend Fire. Each alliance is to defend themselves unless there you all are taking that 'friendship' treay you all signed to be set to 1 hit.

I think it would be better for all parties also less drama if you guys would just form 1 empire and stop being each others .......

Kong is definately entertained now... I smell WAR, & it smells good...

I wouldn't say war is coming.

By and large myself and other's fully intend to comply with WR's farming policy. The only real issue is that there are a small portion of World Republic player's who we won't be following this policy regarding - namely those who meet both of the below criteria:

1.) They have a very large defence vs. their income size
2.) They haven't logged in for over 12hours or so.

In such an event - people like doxakk who consistently have 5billion+ kuwal out, despite having less than 2.5million income units (i.e. about 100million income - so well over a day's income out) and who only have such high amounts of kuwal out due to having very large defences vs. their income i.e. 7billion in Doxakk's case - then i think its fair to say if they get farmed they deserve it. Its these sort of people where abiding by WR's farming policy won't be happening.

Now... in such a scenario its going to be down to FIRE and World Republic whether they want to go to war (which is what will happen if a TIE member's massed) over farming hits on people who ve gone probably 16+ hours without logging in... and in most cases over 24hours.

Simply put: War will only happen if FIRE and World Republic decide they want to start protecting player's from profitable farming hits when those player's go extended periods of time without logging in.

If they elect to follow common-sense and actually don't have a issue when people like doxakk (24+hours without logging in to bank) get farmed - normally for profits of only about 400million instead of the 1billion required - then there is absolutely no reason for there to even be a crisis... let alone a war.

Its basically down to FIRE/ WR and whether common-sense is allowed to prevail.

I d also like to add to this:

Its completely ironic that The Imperium, FIRE and World Republic have reversed roles.

In the discussions for the peace treaty of the first World Republic-Imperium war people like Lord Ishurue, Rflash and Kenzu refused any form of farming policy which would allow Imperium members to go extended (i.e. normally more than 16hours) income out without being farmed.... and remember this was with the old-farming system where if you couldn't beat the defence, you wouldn't get anything.

Now? Some of those same people who consistently shot down proposed farming-policies on the grounds it would make people unfarmable - have now implemented a policy which has a similar affect as that which they refused when it came to TIE,
on the alliance (WR) which generally has the worst income to defence ratio's on the game - where the defences are massively large when compared to their counter-parts in FIRE, The Imperium and other alliances.

Oh well... don't worry though - The Imperium will carry on Lord Ishurue's, Kenzus and Rflash's efforts from the first-war in stopping farming-policies being implemented which render unacceptably large chunks of the alliances in question unfarmable - even if they themselves have long since turned away from their origins.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gotto love how The Imperium's reformed view of farming (namely that we accept farming of our members and have a relatively relaxed policy considering how much income most of our players generate vs. other players in other alliances) - a reform forced in large part on us by World Republic and members which would one day become parts of FIRE - is now meaning we won't be accepting World Republic's blantant attempts to make unacceptably large portions of their alliance unfarmable.

Karma's fun wouldn't you all agree?

by Nomad Sun May 23, 2010 5:47 pm

Ishurue wrote:for FIRE farm policy , i didnt bother with the attack turns , the tiers sorta have it covered .

its very easy to do this . UU cost 175k + wep cost 308k for MBT + 150k ASs training = 633k

then multiply your loses by 633k to find cost for the farm .

@ Kenzu
Well actually yes AT are free, you create them naturally every day. No one other then you has added that cost in and as Lord Ishurue has stated above you ARE NOT using the existing FIRE policy because they, same as TIE, have never counted the cost of AT since they are in fact "Free" since you produce them daily. Now I do agree with your point that not ALL AT are free and many are bought, but how can you regulate when someone uses purchased or naturally occuring AT? simple, you can't.

That said, someone has pointed out a flaw in every one of the farming policies I know of, and all might consider changing their policies to solve the issue, its a minor one, but still an issue. I'll use the above listed policy as an example

0 defense action ___ No minimum profit needed
1 to 200 million defense action ___ Minimum of 100million profit needed
200 million to 500 million defense action ___ Minimum of 200million profit needed
500 million to 1 billion defense action ___ Minimum of 350million profit needed
1 billion to 2 billion defense action ___ Minimum of 600million profit needed
over 2 billion defense action ___ Minimum of 1billion profit needed.

should read

0 defense action ___ No minimum profit needed
1 to 199,999,999 defense action ___ Minimum of 100million profit needed
200 million to 499,999,999 defense action ___ Minimum of 200million profit needed
500 million to 999,999,999 defense action ___ Minimum of 350million profit needed
1 billion to 1,999,999,999 defense action ___ Minimum of 600million profit needed
2 billion defense action and over ___ Minimum of 1billion profit needed.

using this
1 to 200 million defense action ___ Minimum of 100million profit needed
200 million to 500 million defense action ___ Minimum of 200million profit needed

someone with a 200 mill defense will fall into 2 teirs. The attacker will claim only 100 mill profit is needed and the defender will claim 200 mill profit was needed. Hence the minor issue.

by Kenzu Sun May 23, 2010 5:52 pm

ian wrote:
kingkongfan1 wrote:
seaborgium wrote:I been looking over this and thinking.
Fire can't defend WR nor can WR defend Fire. Each alliance is to defend themselves unless there you all are taking that 'friendship' treay you all signed to be set to 1 hit.

I think it would be better for all parties also less drama if you guys would just form 1 empire and stop being each others .......

Kong is definately entertained now... I smell WAR, & it smells good...

I wouldn't say war is coming.

By and large myself and other's fully intend to comply with WR's farming policy. The only real issue is that there are a small portion of World Republic player's who we won't be following this policy regarding - namely those who meet both of the below criteria:

1.) They have a very large defence vs. their income size
2.) They haven't logged in for over 12hours or so.

In such an event - people like doxakk who consistently have 5billion+ kuwal out, despite having less than 2.5million income units (i.e. about 100million income - so well over a day's income out) and who only have such high amounts of kuwal out due to having very large defences vs. their income i.e. 7billion in Doxakk's case - then i think its fair to say if they get farmed they deserve it. Its these sort of people where abiding by WR's farming policy won't be happening.

Now... in such a scenario its going to be down to FIRE and World Republic whether they want to go to war (which is what will happen if a TIE member's massed) over farming hits on people who ve gone probably 16+ hours without logging in... and in most cases over 24hours.

Simply put: War will only happen if FIRE and World Republic decide they want to start protecting player's from profitable farming hits when those player's go extended periods of time without logging in.

If they elect to follow common-sense and actually don't have a issue when people like doxakk (24+hours without logging in to bank) get farmed - normally for profits of only about 400million instead of the 1billion required - then there is absolutely no reason for there to even be a crisis... let alone a war.

Its basically down to FIRE/ WR and whether common-sense is allowed to prevail.

Nothing gives you the right to decide if 12 hours is too long for someone not to log in. Some people have a life, important work, or are simply sick, and can't log in 2 times a day.

If someone builds 5 billion defense, and you steal 3 billion kuwal only to have 250 million profit, then this is a sick.

Most important is that people will be treated equally.
Is it so hard for you to understand that?

Forcing your own policies on others and ignoring the same rules being used against you is not only a sign of hypocrisy, but also immoral.

Examples, where you, ian have farmed WR members for as little as 94.000.00 profit causing over 2.100.000.000 damage, and your policy requiring a minimum 600.000.000 profit in this case when you attacked Kompur. Another case, where you attacked Jookaremo, you made only 241.000.000 profit, but your own policy requiring you to make 1.200.000.000 kuwal profit are only few examples of your regular breaches of the TIE farming policy.

There are only rare instances that there were breaches by other TIE members, and these have been solved without problems. Ian, you are responsible for much more breaches in the farming policy against WR than all other players combined!

Why do you think that others should follow TIE policy, if you are not following your own policy yourself?

How about being fair, and treating others the way you want to be treated yourself, for a change?

by Lord Ishurue Sun May 23, 2010 6:03 pm

Kenzu wrote:
ian wrote:
kingkongfan1 wrote:
seaborgium wrote:I been looking over this and thinking.
Fire can't defend WR nor can WR defend Fire. Each alliance is to defend themselves unless there you all are taking that 'friendship' treay you all signed to be set to 1 hit.

I think it would be better for all parties also less drama if you guys would just form 1 empire and stop being each others .......

Kong is definately entertained now... I smell WAR, & it smells good...

I wouldn't say war is coming.

By and large myself and other's fully intend to comply with WR's farming policy. The only real issue is that there are a small portion of World Republic player's who we won't be following this policy regarding - namely those who meet both of the below criteria:

1.) They have a very large defence vs. their income size
2.) They haven't logged in for over 12hours or so.

In such an event - people like doxakk who consistently have 5billion+ kuwal out, despite having less than 2.5million income units (i.e. about 100million income - so well over a day's income out) and who only have such high amounts of kuwal out due to having very large defences vs. their income i.e. 7billion in Doxakk's case - then i think its fair to say if they get farmed they deserve it. Its these sort of people where abiding by WR's farming policy won't be happening.

Now... in such a scenario its going to be down to FIRE and World Republic whether they want to go to war (which is what will happen if a TIE member's massed) over farming hits on people who ve gone probably 16+ hours without logging in... and in most cases over 24hours.

Simply put: War will only happen if FIRE and World Republic decide they want to start protecting player's from profitable farming hits when those player's go extended periods of time without logging in.

If they elect to follow common-sense and actually don't have a issue when people like doxakk (24+hours without logging in to bank) get farmed - normally for profits of only about 400million instead of the 1billion required - then there is absolutely no reason for there to even be a crisis... let alone a war.

Its basically down to FIRE/ WR and whether common-sense is allowed to prevail.

Nothing gives you the right to decide if 12 hours is too long for someone not to log in. Some people have a life, important work, or are simply sick, and can't log in 2 times a day.

If someone builds 5 billion defense, and you steal 3 billion kuwal only to have 250 million profit, then this is a sick.

Most important is that people will be treated equally.
Is it so hard for you to understand that?

Forcing your own policies on others and ignoring the same rules being used against you is not only a sign of hypocrisy, but also immoral.

Examples, where you, ian have farmed WR members for as little as 94.000.00 profit causing over 2.100.000.000 damage, and your policy requiring a minimum 600.000.000 profit in this case when you attacked Kompur. Another case, where you attacked Jookaremo, you made only 241.000.000 profit, but your own policy requiring you to make 1.200.000.000 kuwal profit are only few examples of your regular breaches of the TIE farming policy.

There are only rare instances that there were breaches by other TIE members, and these have been solved without problems. Ian, you are responsible for much more breaches in the farming policy against WR than all other players combined!

Why do you think that others should follow TIE policy, if you are not following your own policy yourself?

How about being fair, and treating others the way you want to be treated yourself, for a change?

u may have the damage mixed up a bit . this new system is cheaper for the defender

[22 May] 16:11 ian ?????????? Kuwal Stolen 5288 823 this is a hit ian made on candyman86

823 were candyman's loses

823 x 633k Candyman only took , ~521mil damage to his defense .

This was a hit i made on SA47 .

[17 May] 15:30 SA47 ?????? Kuwal Stolen 736 6308
736 was his Loses .

lets assume SA47 has MBT

736 X 633k = ~466mil damage he took on his defense

like i mentioned on MSN .

find some sort of balance point .

by Kenzu Sun May 23, 2010 6:08 pm

I checked the logs, it's exactly as I say it is:

against Jookaremo
[18 May] 05:30 ian 1,825,018,717 Kuwal Stolen 2503 300 1,642,410,000 2,571,129,000

ians losses: 1.584.399.000 +30 million
Victims defense: 2,571,129,000
You made a profit of: 241.000.000
TIE policy states you need a profit of: 1.2 billion
The damage you caused: 2.014.000.000

against Kompur
[22 May] 14:53 ian 1,813,339,409 Kuwal Stolen 2716 520 3,584,179,991 1,761,302,083

ians losses: 1.719.000.000
Victims defense: 1,761,302,083
You made a profit of: 94.000.000
TIE policy states you need a profit of: 600 million
The damage you caused: 2.142.000.000

Defenders losses: kuwal stolen + units lost + weapons lost
If you steal 1.000.000.000 and the defender has 100.000.000 value lost in def supers and weapons, then total damage caused to the defender ammount to 1.100.000.000.

by Lord Ishurue Sun May 23, 2010 6:12 pm

Kenzu wrote:

Defenders losses: kuwal stolen + units lost + weapons lost
If you steal 1.000.000.000 and the defender has 100.000.000 value lost in def supers and weapons, then total damage caused to the defender ammount to 1.100.000.000.

Ah i see . Cool

by Lord Ishurue Sun May 23, 2010 6:17 pm

[quote="ian"]

ian wrote:
kingkongfan1 wrote:
seaborgium wrote:I been looking over this and thinking.
Fire can't defend WR nor can WR defend Fire. Each alliance is to defend themselves unless there you all are taking that 'friendship' treay you all signed to be set to 1 hit.

I think it would be better for all parties also less drama if you guys would just form 1 empire and stop being each others .......

Kong is definately entertained now... I smell WAR, & it smells good...

Oh well... don't worry though - The Imperium will carry on Lord Ishurue's, Kenzus and Rflash's efforts from the first-war in stopping farming-policies being implemented which render unacceptably large chunks of the alliances in question unfarmable - even if they themselves have long since turned away from their origins.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gotto love how The Imperium's reformed view of farming (namely that we accept farming of our members and have a relatively relaxed policy considering how much income most of our players generate vs. other players in other alliances) - a reform forced in large part on us by World Republic and members which would one day become parts of FIRE - is now meaning we won't be accepting World Republic's blantant attempts to make unacceptably large portions of their alliance unfarmable.

Karma's fun wouldn't you all agree?

im pretty sure some sort of balance point was discussed .

by ian Sun May 23, 2010 7:00 pm

Kenzu wrote:I checked the logs, it's exactly as I say it is:

against Jookaremo
[18 May] 05:30 ian 1,825,018,717 Kuwal Stolen 2503 300 1,642,410,000 2,571,129,000

ians losses: 1.584.399.000 +30 million
Victims defense: 2,571,129,000
You made a profit of: 241.000.000
TIE policy states you need a profit of: 1.2 billion
The damage you caused: 2.014.000.000

against Kompur
[22 May] 14:53 ian 1,813,339,409 Kuwal Stolen 2716 520 3,584,179,991 1,761,302,083

ians losses: 1.719.000.000
Victims defense: 1,761,302,083
You made a profit of: 94.000.000
TIE policy states you need a profit of: 600 million
The damage you caused: 2.142.000.000

Defenders losses: kuwal stolen + units lost + weapons lost
If you steal 1.000.000.000 and the defender has 100.000.000 value lost in def supers and weapons, then total damage caused to the defender ammount to 1.100.000.000.

To be frank i couldn't give a damn about any definition of "fairness" you supposedly have Kenzu. You lost that right in my eyes a long time ago having seen your definition of "fairness" - there's a whole collection of threads in the alliance war's and personal war's threads where you & World Republic have demonstrated your "fairness" - namely in dealing with new player's or small defenceless players. Then of course lets not even go into your "fair" attempts to infiltrate other alliances and "fairly" cause internal problems, pressures and distrust in the hopes they "fairly" collapse or your "fair" breaches of established peace treaties and then "fair" attempts at propaganda. No... i think i ve had enough of your definition and examples of "fairness" if you don't mind.

You also neglected to mention the below details:

Jookaremo - 2.6million farmers, 100k miners, 100k workers - a pre AE income of 143million kuwal - and an AE of about 77% - thats about 110million kuwal income not including weapon upkeeps costs or other factors... so say about 105million income. Thats 17 turns income out he had i farmed him for - 8 and a half hours income out.

Kompur - 100k farmers, 125k workers, 575k miners - a 47.75million turn income. Not including upkeep costs for weapons. Thats 37 turns worth of income out- 18 and a half hours worth.

You dare sit there on your high-horse and winge about farming of your alliance by TIE before you even had a alliance-policy when your allies consistently conduct hits against TIE often for amounts below 17turns worth of their targets... and in some cases as little as 10 turns worth.

If you think your alliance members are going to get to sit behind big defences and not log in for hours on end while Imperium members get farmed by your allies for not banking for far less time - then you are dellusional.

World Republic's average army size is 1,457,650. Your not even 1/3 of The Imperium's average army size - meaning your income is something like 1/ 2.5 of our income on average per member.

The Imperium's profit margins reflect this - they reflect the fact that if WR & TIE have the same policies on average it will take your members roughly 2.5times longer than an Imperium member to build up the *profit* needed to be gained by an attacker to be legitimate within the policy.

Under what your proposing that means a World Republic member with the same defence as a TIE member can afford to log in only half of what a TIE member does (even less infact) - and a TIE member will get farmed while your beloved WR member won't be farmed. Why should a more active player get farmed while your members get to sit safe? How is THAT fair?

And don't for a second tell me "they should build more defences" - what right do you have to decide what an acceptable defence is? You may advocate to your players that they invest months into their defence - but that doesn't mean I m going to tell the Imperium to do that... especially when we know all about some of the manoveuring World Republic and FIRE are doing behind the scenes & just what you have planned for TIE.

So no - The Imperium and World Republic are very different. Our farming policy reflects this. When WR's average income is the same as The Imperium's - expect us to abide by the same profit-policies for WR and TIE has... untill then expect us to abide by smaller profit margins to reflect WR's far smaller income per member on average.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And - for the record - if you really want to start being awkward... then The Imperium could apply a policy of dividing all of our profit margins by 2.5 (i.e. 1.2billion requirement for 2billion+ defence/ 2.5 = 480million profit requirement) and then applying that to World Republic to guide our farming of your members.

I would suggest you consider some solution and modification to your policy to take into account the huge-defences vs. your incomes... or thats precisely what we ll do... and if you then want to try forcing The Imperium to abide by your policy.. then thats precisely what you ll have to do - use force. But i think we all know what TIE's response will be to that.

by ian Sun May 23, 2010 8:38 pm

Official Imperium Announcement Regarding The New World Republic Policy:

After a emergency meeting with those of The Supreme High Command of The Imperium online, it has been decided that in the name and support of diplomacy we will conceed our demands that World Republic adopt a new farming policy.

Consequently as of the 24th of May 0.00 a.m ingame time The Imperium will start to follow the new World Republic policy as stated below:

0 defense action ___ No minimum profit needed
1 to 200 million defense action ___ Minimum of 100million profit needed
200 million to 500 million defense action ___ Minimum of 200million profit needed
500 million to 1 billion defense action ___ Minimum of 350million profit needed
1 billion to 2 billion defense action ___ Minimum of 600million profit needed
over 2 billion defense action ___ Minimum of 1billion profit needed.

As far as we are concerned all previous attacks on WR do not fall under this policy due to there being insufficient warning given about the new scheme. Consequently from the 24th of May 0.00 ingame time all Imperium members will be instructed to respect World Republic's farming policy.

We in The Imperium would like to extend our warmest and best wishes to World Republic and FIRE in the enforcement of this fundamentally significant policy - we hope the benefits and prosperity it brings to the members of World Republic are many. We look forward to friendly and diplomatic relations and cooperation in ensuring a effective and workable diplomatic relationship with the FIRE and World Republic alliances.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In addittion, since now seems as good a time as any while we are all discussing alliance policies and consequently have them on the mind - i would like to announce a addittion to The Imperium farming policy:

As of the 24th of May 0.00 ingame time The Imperium Empire will hereby be adopting a maximum-number of attacks or raids which may be carried out against The Imperium Empire within a week and against a individual Imperium Member. All attacks will be expected to follow the existing 5-tier farming system the Imperium is currently following - meeting the minimal profit requirements - as well as the excessive strike clause.

The maximum number of attacks or Raid's which may be conducted against The Imperium as a whole, as well as the maximum number of raids and farms which may be conducted against individual Imperium members will be reviewed roughly every month to reflect the ingame situation.

Consequently starting at 24th of May 0.00 ingame time the maximum number of attacks/ raids which a single player can do on the entire Imperium Empire is to be restricted to 8 a week. No more than 2 a week are to be conducted on a individual Imperium member.

This means if someone does say... 8 farming hits in total on TIE, spread across 8 members, and then does 2 raid hits on TIE spread across another 2 Imperium members - then this would amount to 10 hits within that week and would be a breach. Each of the 2 extra hits would be classed as a individual breach.

Likewise - if someone farms a individual TIE member 3 times a week then this would be in breach of the maximum of 2 hits per individual TIE member - consequently the extra 1 hit would be classed as a breach.

For ease of purpose - all previous hits conducted before the 24th of May 0.00 ingame time will not count towards the weekly-limit or individual limit.

The Imperium Empire looks forward to the full diplomatic cooperation of the FIRE and World Republic alliances.

Regards

Ian - Senatorum Imperialis

by kingkongfan1 Sun May 23, 2010 11:44 pm

ian wrote:
kingkongfan1 wrote:
seaborgium wrote:I been looking over this and thinking.
Fire can't defend WR nor can WR defend Fire. Each alliance is to defend themselves unless there you all are taking that 'friendship' treay you all signed to be set to 1 hit.

I think it would be better for all parties also less drama if you guys would just form 1 empire and stop being each others .......

Kong is definately entertained now... I smell WAR, & it smells good...

I wouldn't say war is coming.

By and large myself and other's fully intend to comply with WR's farming policy. The only real issue is that there are a small portion of World Republic player's who we won't be following this policy regarding - namely those who meet both of the below criteria:

1.) They have a very large defence vs. their income size
2.) They haven't logged in for over 12hours or so.

In such an event - people like doxakk who consistently have 5billion+ kuwal out, despite having less than 2.5million income units (i.e. about 100million income - so well over a day's income out) and who only have such high amounts of kuwal out due to having very large defences vs. their income i.e. 7billion in Doxakk's case - then i think its fair to say if they get farmed they deserve it. Its these sort of people where abiding by WR's farming policy won't be happening.

Now... in such a scenario its going to be down to FIRE and World Republic whether they want to go to war (which is what will happen if a TIE member's massed) over farming hits on people who ve gone probably 16+ hours without logging in... and in most cases over 24hours.

Simply put: War will only happen if FIRE and World Republic decide they want to start protecting player's from profitable farming hits when those player's go extended periods of time without logging in.

If they elect to follow common-sense and actually don't have a issue when people like doxakk (24+hours without logging in to bank) get farmed - normally for profits of only about 400million instead of the 1billion required - then there is absolutely no reason for there to even be a crisis... let alone a war.

Its basically down to FIRE/ WR and whether common-sense is allowed to prevail.

no offense intended toward anyone; but the war has already begun... lol... it may only be with words now, but it has begun... lol... king

by seaborgium Mon May 24, 2010 12:36 am

the 'war' of words was started long ago lol

by ian Mon May 24, 2010 1:17 am

kingkongfan1 wrote:
ian wrote:
kingkongfan1 wrote:
seaborgium wrote:I been looking over this and thinking.
Fire can't defend WR nor can WR defend Fire. Each alliance is to defend themselves unless there you all are taking that 'friendship' treay you all signed to be set to 1 hit.

I think it would be better for all parties also less drama if you guys would just form 1 empire and stop being each others .......

Kong is definately entertained now... I smell WAR, & it smells good...

I wouldn't say war is coming.

By and large myself and other's fully intend to comply with WR's farming policy. The only real issue is that there are a small portion of World Republic player's who we won't be following this policy regarding - namely those who meet both of the below criteria:

1.) They have a very large defence vs. their income size
2.) They haven't logged in for over 12hours or so.

In such an event - people like doxakk who consistently have 5billion+ kuwal out, despite having less than 2.5million income units (i.e. about 100million income - so well over a day's income out) and who only have such high amounts of kuwal out due to having very large defences vs. their income i.e. 7billion in Doxakk's case - then i think its fair to say if they get farmed they deserve it. Its these sort of people where abiding by WR's farming policy won't be happening.

Now... in such a scenario its going to be down to FIRE and World Republic whether they want to go to war (which is what will happen if a TIE member's massed) over farming hits on people who ve gone probably 16+ hours without logging in... and in most cases over 24hours.

Simply put: War will only happen if FIRE and World Republic decide they want to start protecting player's from profitable farming hits when those player's go extended periods of time without logging in.

If they elect to follow common-sense and actually don't have a issue when people like doxakk (24+hours without logging in to bank) get farmed - normally for profits of only about 400million instead of the 1billion required - then there is absolutely no reason for there to even be a crisis... let alone a war.

Its basically down to FIRE/ WR and whether common-sense is allowed to prevail.

no offense intended toward anyone; but the war has already begun... lol... it may only be with words now, but it has begun... lol...

Lol, you may be right - but hopefully are wrong.

The Imperium means what it says above - we are happy to fully cooperate with WR's farming policy provided that TIE's farming policy is respected also. I ve explained to Lord Ishurue the reasons for those changes in depth - but i ll also summarise them here for everyone else to see:

- The Imperium generally makes more wealth per player than other alliances (by a significant portion). This means inevitably farming hits on our player's are also generally for far more kuwal, and possibly more frequent as well - which coupled with the existing attack system (i.e. getting kuwal when your attack fails) basically means the impacts of farming on The Imperium is pretty extensive (i.e. your talking minimum of 20billion kuwal damage a *day*). Most farming of The Imperium is done by FIRE.

- The Imperium simply due to our player's generally being slightly wealthier in income generation, coupled with there being slightly more of us anyway - is thus slowly loosing more kuwal to farming from FIRE than we can gain each day from farming FIRE. Its not really to do with lack of activity (generally i d say FIRE & TIE's members are among the most active on the game and are at similar levels to one another) - simply due to the larger you are, the richer you and thus the more you have to loose.

- The Imperium has to an extent been able to combat this damage to our economy from FIRE's farming via our farming of World Republic. It actually hasn't been enough to fully-plug the gap.. which over a extended period of time has resulted in substantial damage - but its been enough to allow The Imperium to tolerate/ cope with the farming by FIRE.

The recent farming policy change by World Republic, however, effectively makes many of them unfarmable generally. In short - the WR policy change has basically kicked out TIE's legs from under it while FIRE hits us over the head with a big-rock. Its little short of an act of economic warfare - albeit unintentional... but the effects are still the same - namely that TIE's ability to farm WR shrinks massively... thus our growth from this will be destroyed, while at the same time FIRE's farming of us would continue - so the damage from this would continue.

Consequently - the limitation to 8 hits a week on all of TIE will likely have a significant impact upon the farming of TIE by FIRE - reducing the damage done to TIE by FIRE - compensating for the damage done to our growth abilities which we would previously have gained from farming of WR. It will inevitably mean FIRE's own growth abilities will be damaged/ reduced by the reduction in their abilities to farm TIE, but at the same time it also means WR's own growth abilities will improve due to less farming by TIE.

Basically - diplomacy is all about giving and taking. TIE's toleration of the farming of us was drawing to an end anyway... it just means the changes have to be a bit more significant than originally planned to compensate for the damage done to our growth abilities via WR's policy being adopted.

Of course.. this will be reviewed reguarly. Should it prove less effective than hoped, other options and choices are on the table.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now... hopefully there won't be any war - as in all honesty the above's fair to both parties (WR/ FIRE & TIE).

However... should war be considered, i m sure all leaders and High-Command staff are more than aware that while FIRE & World Republic may outnumber The Imperium's 51 members by well over 2 to 1 - 127 members in total - and while they may posses overall the larger army size, larger economy and larger military power... The Imperium does have its full firepower & economy far more focused among a much smaller group of players, along with possessing the military-edge overall when it comes to technology & covert/ assassin levels.

Plus when you cut through the figures and start to include those which can be of *significant* use in combat thing's start to look a little more even - with FIRE & WR having 72 members above 1million army size to The Imperium's 44 - which is still a pretty large advantage... though when you look at 2million+ army size members FIRE/ WR have 45 members to The Imperium's 40 - and after that the higher up you go it generally goes in TIE's favour (i.e. TIE has 16 members above 5million army size vs. FIRE/ WR's 13 members).

So... overall FIRE/ WR have a huge advantage in economy (U.P & Income), Army Size, attack turn and supply turn generation - coupled with the advantage (& disadvantages) of this being spread across 127 account's which will make it harder for The Imperium to intercept/sit on. They also can field a massive amount of small to medium strikers and generally arm up a lot of accounts.

On the negative side they are going to be relying on a lot of smaller account's to distribute their losses between - as if they rely on just their large account's they will be at a significant disadvantage -as well as needing to concentrate the resources and military power of a larger group of player's to achieve similar levels of The Imperium's. Coordinating large groups of player's can be a nightmare when it comes to trying to get them online for a strike, or to group together resources from them etc... - which may impeed FIRE/ WR's flexibility when it comes to war.

The Imperium has the advantage of literally every single one of its members being prepared to fight to the death, along with a overall very significant advantage in basic tech levels per player as well as covert/ assassin levels which will help ratio's. We ve also got a far more focused economy and military in terms of its distribution between player's - meaning we will have to coordinate smaller groups and bring less player's to bare to achieve similar levels as FIRE/ WR - something which can be a blessing sometimes. Finally a HUGE advantage is that generally TIE player's will find it easier to rebuild and replace their losses than their WR and to a lesser extent FIRE counter-parts.

On the negative side we simply lack the number of player's which FIRE/ WR have. Supply Turns in the medium to long term will be a massive problem, as will possibly attack turns. We ll also start to struggle to find "fresh" players to form strike teams with once the regulars have fought several battles. FIRE & WR will also probably find it easier to disrupt supply-lines since our economy is focused on a much smaller group of players.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So... overall its unlikely war's gonna start - as neither myself or The Imperium is crazy enough to willingly go into a war massively outnumbered (127 members for FIRE & WR alone, possibly as many as 143 for the rest), and fight basically what *may* be as many as 6 different alliances - World Republic (O), Mujengan_(FIRE), New Federation (FIRE), NPO(O), Everdark and Geto-dacii (possibly).

On the other-hand... i think both FIRE/ WR and everyone else knows that if The Imperium's going down, its going to take as many of its enemies with it - and that any war against TIE will see months of unending warfare and dozens of account's repeatedly massed during that period. Not to mention there's a good chance due to the techs/ higher-combat readiness/ overall larger accounts that The Imperium would come out of it having inflicted disproportionate loses on our enemies, as well as the impossibility that The Imperium could be beaten into surrender or submission (its just not going to happen as long as one of us can afford to arm a strike and hit back) - meaning a war would continue untill a neutral ceasefire (best case scenario) or the complete defeat of FIRE/ WR (worst case scenario) - regardless of how long that takes to achieve, or of the damage inflicted on The Imperium in the process.

So... overall i m going to put my faith in estimating that Lord Ishurue and Kenzu will opt to keep diplomatic channels open, rather than opt for mutually assured destruction - which is what a war will be.

No Mercy. No Remorse. No retreat.
Remember the fallen. Purge the faithless. Burn the heretic.
Long Live The Imperium!

by Kingofshinobis1 Mon May 24, 2010 3:08 am

ian wrote:Official Imperium Announcement Regarding The New World Republic Policy:

In addittion, since now seems as good a time as any while we are all discussing alliance policies and consequently have them on the mind - i would like to announce a addittion to The Imperium farming policy:

As of the 24th of May 0.00 ingame time The Imperium Empire will hereby be adopting a maximum-number of attacks or raids which may be carried out against The Imperium Empire within a week and against a individual Imperium Member. All attacks will be expected to follow the existing 5-tier farming system the Imperium is currently following - meeting the minimal profit requirements - as well as the excessive strike clause.

The maximum number of attacks or Raid's which may be conducted against The Imperium as a whole, as well as the maximum number of raids and farms which may be conducted against individual Imperium members will be reviewed roughly every month to reflect the ingame situation.

Consequently starting at 24th of May 0.00 ingame time the maximum number of attacks/ raids which a single player can do on the entire Imperium Empire is to be restricted to 8 a week. No more than 2 a week are to be conducted on a individual Imperium member.

Ian - Senatorum Imperialis

Looks like I came in very late into this topic lol. (been busy :S) Anyways, I assume this goes for everyone in AND out of TIE in the above update of the policy, correct? Just making sure I get my facts straight Smile

by ian Mon May 24, 2010 11:24 am

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:
ian wrote:Official Imperium Announcement Regarding The New World Republic Policy:

In addittion, since now seems as good a time as any while we are all discussing alliance policies and consequently have them on the mind - i would like to announce a addittion to The Imperium farming policy:

As of the 24th of May 0.00 ingame time The Imperium Empire will hereby be adopting a maximum-number of attacks or raids which may be carried out against The Imperium Empire within a week and against a individual Imperium Member. All attacks will be expected to follow the existing 5-tier farming system the Imperium is currently following - meeting the minimal profit requirements - as well as the excessive strike clause.

The maximum number of attacks or Raid's which may be conducted against The Imperium as a whole, as well as the maximum number of raids and farms which may be conducted against individual Imperium members will be reviewed roughly every month to reflect the ingame situation.

Consequently starting at 24th of May 0.00 ingame time the maximum number of attacks/ raids which a single player can do on the entire Imperium Empire is to be restricted to 8 a week. No more than 2 a week are to be conducted on a individual Imperium member.

Ian - Senatorum Imperialis

Looks like I came in very late into this topic lol. (been busy :S) Anyways, I assume this goes for everyone in AND out of TIE in the above update of the policy, correct? Just making sure I get my facts straight

The policy applies to those farming The Imperium Empire.

by ian Mon May 24, 2010 3:50 pm

lol, I m actually kinda suprised that neither Kenzu or Lord Ishurue has posted in response to the talk/ view that war has already begun, or to support the view put forward by myself that war is very unlikely.

Thats actually somewhat concerning since its out of character for both of them.... - and the only reason i can think of why neither would post is they wouldn't want to make a public statement about war being unlikely and then launch a assault against The Imperium in several days time/ tonight.

The Imperium's made its position clear on the likelyhood of war in a very public way... i request Kenzu/ Lord Ishurue to do the same. If everyone makes it known they all think war is unlikely to start in a public-way (i.e. this post) it stands to reason that the chances of war starting is at least reduced a bit....

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