Peace Treaty between World Republic and Imperium

FarleShadow wrote:

Sandwalker wrote:
Allow me to amplify it for you.

RPG = role playing game. This as much stat building as it is politics. If you don't agree ... well then, at least you have your health.

Point. But I figured most people would want to get away from boring figure fucking, but I guess there are those wierd few who think fractions and mindless rules are fun.

I get off on fractions. And I so do enjoy a little rule on the side.

Seriously though, if it makes you feel any better, I was always against having any kind of treaty with WR so really, we're on the same page here.

I have nothing to say regarding the peace treaty/ negotiations... and i suspect the majority of TIE's members (and therefore TIE itself) also have nothing to say or discuss when it comes to diplomacy with World Republic.

TIE's stance is unchanged: We are neutral towards World Republic - neither at peace or at war.

For those WR members winging about TIE holding all of World Republic to account over Kenzu's action, that we should just deal with individuals - you forget, this is EXACTLY what is happening. TIE has not yet acted against World Republic.

TIE is refusing to control its individuals, and is leaving those individuals to decide their policies and what they do and don't want to do themselves. Its their individual choice whether or not they ll mass a WR player, and just which WR player they ll mass. You say we should respect the individuality of the members in an alliance... well here is the result - some of TIE's individual members have taken it upon themselves to punish individuals in WR for their connection to World Republic and/or Kenzu.

To me it seems World Republic wants to be treated individually - for each individual to distance themselves from the ignorance and stupidity of Kenzu's actions - and thus to have an excuse as to why they shouldn't be massed - because they weren't responsible for it, and are individuals - .... yet when it comes to The Imperium Empire, you want us to act as a collective and restrict and take responsibility for our members actions, thereby stopping those individuals who want to see an end to WR, from following their own free will?

So... which is it? To me the current stance being advocated by many of WR is confused at best, and more likely applying one set of rules to themselves, and another set of rules to everyone else (double standards).

So you posted to say you have nothing to say?

So are you going to mass Kenzu, kill WR, perhaps smoke a pipe while recanting tales of the good old days?

Arctic Warfare!

FarleShadow wrote:So you posted to say you have nothing to say?

So are you going to mass Kenzu, kill WR, perhaps smoke a pipe while recanting tales of the good old days?

Correct on the first part - though i edited my post to have a little bit more to say and to clarify.

As for smoking... no. Drink? Maybe. Recanting Tales of the good old TC days? Probably

FarleShadow wrote:So you posted to say you have nothing to say?

So are you going to mass Kenzu, kill WR, perhaps smoke a pipe while recanting tales of the good old days?

Pip pip and all that. Who said he was going to kill WR? Why would they, TIE, want to harm WR?

ian wrote:
Correct on the first part - though i edited my post to have a little bit more to say and to clarify.

As for smoking... no. Drink? Maybe. Recanting Tales of the good old TC days? Probably

See? That post made tons more sense.

Although I am curious, what if a WR member decides to mass a TIE player?

Ian, you do realise that if you attack an individual of an alliance, you may be retaliated against by all of the alliance and allies?
In normal circumstances, such as when ShadowPhoenix attacked DiscoVader, the attacker's alliance will stand aside. For clarity's sake, will you say whether or not that will be the case here?
Or do you expect one-on-one's to be declared.

GeIveI2aL wrote:Just because one is the leader, doesnt mean he ALWAYS speaks for GROUP.

A little thing called mis-communication actually exists, who would of thought it!

woah I think you need a lesson here.

Leaders DO speak for the group, if not then the group needs to get a new leader.

Look into real life for the proof.

Jiro wrote:Ian, you do realise that if you attack an individual of an alliance, you may be retaliated against by all of the alliance and allies?
In normal circumstances, such as when ShadowPhoenix attacked DiscoVader, the attacker's alliance will stand aside. For clarity's sake, will you say whether or not that will be the case here?
Or do you expect one-on-one's to be declared.

Lol, i ll do my best to clarify then:

- If individual TIE members start targetting WR (which they have done so), WR by all means is welcome to retaliate against those individual TIE members involved in hostilities - TIE itself won't get involved (though obviously i can't garantee other individuals of TIE won't get involved due to whatever personal motivations).

- If individual WR members start hitting innocent TIE members (innocent = not involved in hostile attacks against WR), then TIE will hold WR as a whole to account for such conduct, and consequently TIE will ensure ALL of WR suffers any consequences.

Whether or not WR wants to hold all of TIE for account of individual TIE members actions is their decision, and their's alone - so i can't clarify that situation since it is not mine to clarify. All i know is that should they then held TIE as a whole to account - the moment an innocent TIE member is touched... it would fall into the above second point.

wow, this topic got spammed a ridiculous amount.

I do not intend to get involved in hits on WR or any1 else. Reason this is all happening is because Kenzu attempts to make himself appear as the victim. WR only receives half of the information if they even receive any at all.

I am going to go out on a limb and say most of WR had no clue they were even at war the first time other then some PMs. No change happened to their account what so ever in the war times. Now for TIE during the war we had our entire alliance working during the war to pull funds and donate towards the war fund.

Basically this is the very last resort decided by TIE. We did not wish to come to this but we really were left with no option.

We tried diplomacy for months. Literally months of talking BS with Kenzu
We tried only dealing with kenzu and a strike team from WR. We left WR ALONE for weeks.
We tried a peace treaty. Of course that goes up in smoke over a god damn farming policy.
Now the final option that came to use a very last resort is to cut the hounds loose. If people want war let them have it. If not you have the option to not be involved.

I am going to recommend Kenzu makes WR go *poof* again so that people in WR cant be targeted so easily. TIE is secret so that only the people that attack will be attacked back. WR should try a similar tactic because right now the name of World Republic is pretty close to a death sentence thanks of Kenzu

I dont understand why this is such a difficult concept for WR and everyone else to understand -

We hold Kenzu 100% responsible - however just massing him will achieve nothing apart from satisfy some itchy trigger fingers. Instead we are holding ALL of WR responsible for keeping Kenzu as their leader. But instead of declaring war on WR and killing countless units and accounts we are letting go of the reigns on our members to react in anyway they want.

There is no simple diplomatic solution here - Your not dealing with the Imperium empire, your dealing with an angry bunch of people who just really dont like Kenzu.... we are simply voicing our opinions through actions now.

This is a GAME i dont have to be nice or polite or decent or humane - World Republic WILL suffer as a collective as long as Kenzu is your leader and doesnt keep his mouth shut

For the record a 12th time or something like that:

The Imperium Empire is NOT at war with World Republic. We are neither coordinating any efforts as a empire, nor pooling resources, nor is the command chain of The Imperium Empire in any way involved in what each individual member who hits World Republic decides to do.

This isn't a TIE vs. World Republic situation.

Its a World Republic vs. whoever attacks them situation - and right now that includes both TIE AND Non TIE members.

The Imperium Empire's only diplomatic move here is to inform World Republic due to hostile intentions and overall nastiness that The Imperium Empire has deemed their conduct a breach of the peace treaty, and consequently hereby dissolves it - as well as notifying World Republic we no longer see any point in continuing diplomacy given the level if distrust, frustration and bias present.

Consequently... since we no longer have a peace treaty with WR, if a few TIE members wish to gain some long-sort after payback on WR... there is now nothing stopping them doing so.

It is NOT The Imperium Empire's concern if a couple of individuals want to go do a 1vs 1, 5 vs 10, 10 vs. 30 etc.... or whatever which involves World Republic.

TIE's position on the peace treaty is clear - we ve had enough of being lied to, slandered to and sufferring outright aggression and hostility - we have no wish in negotiating any future deals with World Republic. TIE's position to World Republic is unchanged - we are neutral.

So... can we please just end the debate? This isn't TIE vs. WR - its individuals who are pissed off vs. WR - none of TIE's concern

Figured i d post this here:

Kenzu wrote:

ian wrote:

Kenzu wrote:What agreement would you like to make to have peace?

Any expectations or suggestions?

I propose I will not talk bad about Imperium and its members to players outside WR, but you should agree not to talk bad about WR and its members to non members of Imperium.

Agree?

TIE and WR are not at war, we are still neutral to one another, and provided you don't do anything rash - will likely remain that way.

If World Republic is coming under attack by individuals, i would suggest you contact them and ask them the above question, and try and arrange a settlement with them.

WR doctrine remains same.
No first strike on anyone.

If attacked by "individuals", we will decide depending on the extent of attack.

Organised attacks by groups of people, however, will be regarded as organised offensives.

I d like to highlight that the statement "Organised attacks by groups of people, however, will be regarded as organised offensives" is a complete load of bollocks.

On AW - given the costs and nature of massing - any successfull offensive launched requires group participating. Therefore if a couple of individuals/ friends decide to start taking out World Republic - why exactly should it be regarded as a organises offensive by TIE?

To me it seems that again - on one hand World Republic members are arguiing they shouldn't be touched or held responsible for other WR members actions, due to their being individuals and thus should be treated as such - even though every single offence ever committed against TIE (i.e. recruting spies in our ranks, sending that recruitment message to new players, massing our members etc...) was done in the name of World Republic.... yet when other individuals then go and do something equally as hostile to WR off their own initiative... all of a sudden its claimed as TIE being responsible, and is tried to force down our throats.

One rule for themselves, another for everyone else. Double standards.

well no issues are order by any HC member in TIE. Its basically people that have similar issues work together to solve them.

Some members are having a bonding experience right now

Buyakaaaaa!!! Bukkake!!!! HulaHulaHula and other aggressive shouts.

You guys spam too much.

Kenzu Meat... mmm... Meh Hungry!

The last point I can be bothered to make is that while it appears that Kenzu really fucked the boat with regards to the alliance shit, its not like WR members can actually vote him out of his position due to the way the game is structured.

Actually, that might be a good suggestion for Admin. If it doesn't exist already.

Instead of droning on and on.

Can we get the FACTS out please!

TIE - Bring forth EVIDENCE of Kenzus actions, anything else which may b provided as evidence.

WR - Gather evidence on TIE's pursuit to break down any treaties and/or other actions.

Lets deal with facts and untill the cases have been brought forward, I suggest no offensive actions be taken by EITHER side please.
(This being said I have been massed AND raided but still trying to remain neutral)

GeIveI2aL wrote:Instead of droning on and on.

Can we get the FACTS out please!

TIE - Bring forth EVIDENCE of Kenzus actions, anything else which may b provided as evidence.

WR - Gather evidence on TIE's pursuit to break down any treaties and/or other actions.

Lets deal with facts and untill the cases have been brought forward, I suggest no offensive actions be taken by EITHER side please.
(This being said I have been massed AND raided but still trying to remain neutral)

Umm look at the last 27 pages for any proof that might exist for both of those. Though I can see why you wouldn't want to wade through all that.

-Alex

GeIveI2aL wrote:Instead of droning on and on.

Can we get the FACTS out please!

TIE - Bring forth EVIDENCE of Kenzus actions, anything else which may b provided as evidence.

WR - Gather evidence on TIE's pursuit to break down any treaties and/or other actions.

Lets deal with facts and untill the cases have been brought forward, I suggest no offensive actions be taken by EITHER side please.
(This being said I have been massed AND raided but still trying to remain neutral)

This isn't a trial - and if it is, aderan wars community as a whole sure as hell isn't the jury. The Imperium Empire has absolutely no need to explain ourselves to eithier World Republic, or the community at large - the fact we ve done so, so far, should be considered a gift, and nothing more.

This, and the fact the evidence is already presented, and has been for some time now.

TIE - i m issuing an executive order that ALL communications on this forum relating to TIE affairs end.

I think we ve all had enough of this kangaroo court - otherwise known as a forum. We ve said all we needed to say (the official notification to WR of the disbandment of the peace treaty, and clarification of where we stand should any individual TIE or WR members be massed, by individuals from eithier party).

ian wrote:

GeIveI2aL wrote:Instead of droning on and on.

Can we get the FACTS out please!

TIE - Bring forth EVIDENCE of Kenzus actions, anything else which may b provided as evidence.

WR - Gather evidence on TIE's pursuit to break down any treaties and/or other actions.

Lets deal with facts and untill the cases have been brought forward, I suggest no offensive actions be taken by EITHER side please.
(This being said I have been massed AND raided but still trying to remain neutral)

This isn't a trial - and if it is, aderan wars community as a whole sure as hell isn't the jury. The Imperium Empire has absolutely no need to explain ourselves to eithier World Republic, or the community at large - the fact we ve done so, so far, should be considered a gift, and nothing more.

This, and the fact the evidence is already presented, and has been for some time now.

TIE - i m issuing an executive order that ALL communications on this forum relating to TIE affairs end.

I think we ve all had enough of this kangaroo court - otherwise known as a forum. Communications blackout it is

So you consider YOURSELF above everyone else here?

I just saw this message, but let me show you exactly what we mean about Kenzu.

IAN is my alliance leader. I KNOW full well what he does. IAN, my LEADER gives an order so I follow it.

If I did not agree with it I would contest it and say it wrong or I would leave the alliance. I do not contest it and will obey it.

This means I support him.

That is How I and many other view WR. If you don't know what your leader is doing its your fault. If you don't agree with what your leader is doing and don't contest it or leave then its your fault. If you do agree with your leader, feel he is not at fault, Then support him will all you have.

Until the Black out is lifted I am done with these forums.

I am open to any communications with any member of WR via ingame or inforum PM all except Kenzu. For 2 reason. 1. He is a fence post and months of negotiations and attempt at diplomacy have yielded nothing. 2. I have a grave dislike for him and it brings out the darker side of me. I will no longer communicate with him for these reasons. Anyone else I will.

I also have some suggestions for WR members should they be interested.

Dark in here.

Im scared

Oh wow......... WTH happens in 2 days?

Before I start with specific messages, I will state this.

I have messaged Kenzu and asked him to do a few things that should help to resolve some of these issues. One is changing the recruitment message. There's nothing against recruiting new people, just things should be handled a little more tactfully and without mentioning TIE or anyone WR doesn't see as an ally. On that note as well, IF the new person comes back and ASKS questions about alliances, we will do our best to keep it neutral and friendly. We expect much the same. However, we also expect that we won't be "set-up" as in getting friends to join AW just to see what kind of recruitment message is sent out from WR/Kenzu.

Ian, starting with you since I have your quotes handy......

ian wrote:I m gonna clarify some things here:

The Imperium Empire's official stance is we are currently neutral with World Republic, as in... neither at war nor at peace with them.

Any hostile actions conducted against WR are by TIE individuals only -likely prevoked by Kenzu's pig-ignorant attitude and hostility towards TIE.

While TIE is actively discouraging attacks against WR (i.e. we are advising against them), given the general hostility towards us from WR, we will no longer be actively or officially ordering them to stop.

Should things escalate however (such as indiscriminate attacks upon TIE members by *any* World Republic members), World Republic can expect a swift and brutal OFFICIAL Imperium Empire response - and in so doing an response which will have the full resource and military backing off the empire as a whole - compared to just angered individuals as may possibly be the case in the forseeable future.

For WR - there was a time i was prepared to reign in our members to stop them retaliating against your unwarranted, unfair and obvious aggression and hostility towards us. I m no longer prepared to do so.

Right now i m still prepared to hold back on an official TIE declaration of war however (which would mean ALL of TIE working together against you)... but your next couple of moves/ decisions/ responses will influence me heavily. If you value your accounts - you ll think very hard and very carefully as to what these will be.

ian wrote:The second choice means any thoroughly pissed of TIE INDIVIDUALS are now free (since TIE leadership won't be stopping them) to start targetting World Republic at their *own* initiative with their *own* resources - along with any non TIE members who feel like joining in. How they organise themselves, fight and fund their little war is not TIE's concern - they are a group of friends and individuals annoyed enough to take matters into their own hands.

First, since TIE is secret, any attack or massing that WR receives at this point would point towards TIE since we don't know (I don't know) who is in TIE and who isn't. People can say on the forums that they're no longer in TIE, but with the alliance being secret, there's no proof of that. ALSO, "indiscriminate attacks upon TIE members" - again, you're set to "Secret" and there are a number of people already not in an alliance or part of another "secret" alliance - so how would any WR or (O) member really know? Sorry, but I don't have a list of who is in TIE and who has "left" or been "removed." Right now, WR would still be following the "Farming Rules" and not massing anyone.

Secondly, are you saying long-term loyal members of TIE who have recently "left" just so they can attack WR/Kenzu/(O) won't be welcomed back into the fold AFTER they've massed WR/Kenzu/(O) and then compensated or "assisted" in rebuilding what they lost?

Thirdly, since you're so big on spies, are you also stating that you have absolutely ZERO spies in WR or (O)? Just curious at this point, since you've stated that WR had a spy during all of this, but I don't remember you say you don't at all. You've seemed to completely step around that actually, so I'm rather curious as you've made such a deal out of this.


**

I really do want a peace from this. I would like to negotiate a peace treaty with you Ian. A whole lot less complicated than the previous one.

Vesper & SA47, I've messaged you back in-game but have heard nothing from Ian. I know there are a lot of issues. I'm hoping I can get them in a way that I can work with and get some resolution. I have sent Ian a message in-game. Hopefully, this will get us somewhere

Positive thinking!

Special Agent 47 wrote:I just saw this message, but let me show you exactly what we mean about Kenzu.

IAN is my alliance leader. I KNOW full well what he does. IAN, my LEADER gives an order so I follow it.

If I did not agree with it I would contest it and say it wrong or I would leave the alliance. I do not contest it and will obey it.

This means I support him.

That is How I and many other view WR. If you don't know what your leader is doing its your fault. If you don't agree with what your leader is doing and don't contest it or leave then its your fault. If you do agree with your leader, feel he is not at fault, Then support him will all you have.

Until the Black out is lifted I am done with these forums.

I am open to any communications with any member of WR via ingame or inforum PM all except Kenzu. For 2 reason. 1. He is a fence post and months of negotiations and attempt at diplomacy have yielded nothing. 2. I have a grave dislike for him and it brings out the darker side of me. I will no longer communicate with him for these reasons. Anyone else I will.

I also have some suggestions for WR members should they be interested.

I hope you're not asking for defectors or spies



EDIT: 29 pages of this???? Gotta be kidding, really. 6 pages in less than 2 days is