Re: Free Turns

by Nomad Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:13 am

I was thinking more Omega LOL

Wink

by seaborgium Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:24 am

but they are push overs
but that style of play isn't something i want to see coming to AW.

by Admin Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:04 am

seaborgium wrote:but they are push overs
but that style of play isn't something i want to see coming to AW.

that style of play isn't something that would be possible in AW

while I do admit, and I think many others would also have to, it would spur activity and make the server more lively.
Though, there would be 1 possible solution:
Assault mission, both sides lose 4% units. So when you mass, you can already have a profitable mass just by going for the defense. compared to wiping out the rest of the account, you'll deal already massive damage while only requiring a fraction of the turns. (massing a def, 20-30 hits tops, 150 AT/ST; hunting assassins easily 40-60 attacks, 200+ AT's/1k ST's+)

by Manleva Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:03 am

Admin wrote:reducing losses wouldn't help anything since all it would result in is that people would raise their defenses

now you can hold 3-5 bil kuwal with a 5 bil def, reducing losses to half means people will just double the defs, and we'll be right where we started

there would have to be some added benefit for the attacker which doesn't necessarily cause the defender to lose something. (i.e. attacking active players with farm missions will create a reputation of your realm that "no one messes with us" sligthly boosting recruits into your realm [total up] for some time for each attack you make)

I think that you are missing my point somewhat, I am not suggesting that it is just the losses that need to be reduced because that alone is not the answer. Perhaps some questions will help to clarify.

Lets take the example of 2 players. Player A has a 1 Bil Strike and Player B has a 1 Bil Defense. Both players have the same approx income.

1. What will be the break even point for player A to Farm Player B in Kuwal or How much Kuwal will Player B have to have out for Player A to cover their losses?
2. How many Turns will it take before the above break even point is reached?

What I am trying to suggest is that at some reasonable point in time everyone should be able reach this break even point. This is a hypothetical point only but it should be what the mechanics are based on. More active players who log in more often and bank will always be under it and nothing can be done for that. Less active players will build larger defenses to counter or extend the break even point which should be an available option. To discourage excessive Strikes and Defenses Alter AE somewhat and add an upkeep cost for military units.

As it is AE is calculated on Total Population and reduces income. Weapons Upkeep adds a cost based on the weapons that a player has. So why not add an Upkeep Cost based on Unit Make up meaning that those players who want to build accounts that are Excessively Skewed in a particular direction can do so but it will cost them to do it.

by Kenzu Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:14 am

Not sure how about you, but I think no matter what game rules, a lot of people will simply make enough defenses that they dont get farmed (or more activity), and in games where defenses are useless, they simply mass the crap out of other people

Don't think there is a magical potion for this problem.

by Special Agent 47 Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:57 pm

Admin wrote:
seaborgium wrote:but they are push overs
but that style of play isn't something i want to see coming to AW.
that style of play isn't something that would be possible in AWwhile I do admit, and I think many others would also have to, it would spur activity and make the server more lively.
Though, there would be 1 possible solution:
Assault mission, both sides lose 4% units. So when you mass, you can already have a profitable mass just by going for the defense. compared to wiping out the rest of the account, you'll deal already massive damage while only requiring a fraction of the turns. (massing a def, 20-30 hits tops, 150 AT/ST; hunting assassins easily 40-60 attacks, 200+ AT's/1k ST's+)

I have to disagree with that statement.

Look at Lord Ishurue and his actions presently. If TIE or TM joined TOC in the present state that style of play would be very possible. Its possible for Ishurue to do it now on small scale, so inturn it would be possible to do large scale if it were not for the present balance of power.

As it stands now Lord Ishurue has the appearance of 3 alliance and well over 100 accounts backing his actions. (I'm not saying all of TOC backs him, just saying since there is no public rebuttle, and there is public backing that is how it looks). He picks accounts that are easy kills for his account set up, and ones he knows can not and will not fight back unless by chance they intend on totally destroying their already crippled accounts. His alliance, and the Empire he calls home seem to have no issue with his actions nor intend to pressure him to stop them. Therefore he has no limitations on his actions other then his own self imposed restrictions.

Let the full bulk of the active playerbase fall into the same focus and that style of play can be just as possible in AW as it is in any other game.

by kingkongfan1 Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:38 pm

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

as a matter of observation, it has been 7 days & AW has not imploded as was feared, I have been monitering prices on the GM, & there has been very little fluxuation in the prices of any of the resources after the change...

19 November 2010: NEW FEATURES:

The market now allows to receive 100 Attack Turns in exchange for 1 Market Reserve
The market now allows to receive 50 Supply Turns in exchange for 1 Market Reserve
Balancing:

Weapon Upkeep reduced by 25%
Attack Turn Production raised to 2 per turn

since the above in red is no longer in effect,( well I assume everyone else is back to getting 1 AT per turn), can it be removed from the update?

by Nomad Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:56 pm

kingkongfan1 wrote:
Attack Turn Production raised to 2 per turn

since the above in red is no longer in effect,( well I assume everyone else is back to getting 1 AT per turn), can it be removed from the update?

Bug maybe?

Why was no notification given if it was changed?

by Admin Fri Nov 26, 2010 5:18 pm

bug, but how it happened i got no clue.
I mean I know what the cause was, but how the cause came to exist is a mystery

by kingkongfan1 Fri Nov 26, 2010 5:38 pm

Admin wrote:bug, but how it happened i got no clue.
I mean I know what the cause was, but how the cause came to exist is a mystery

oh, my mistake, I thought it had been removed, I apologize for my assumption...

by Kenzu Sat Dec 04, 2010 9:55 am

Kenzu wrote:
Admin wrote:ian 2 things

kenzu got called the same combination of words by someone, nomad i think though dont crucify me if i'm wrong, and while he demanded a punishment, I deemed it not to be offensive enough to warrant a ban. I will not deem it anything else now just because someone directs it at me.

Yes I should consider this a different case if one would adopt a stance of "dont argue with mods", but then again, I have no need for that, people like nimras would most likely I bet.

spineless weasel also comes close, but I decided against a ban for you because of the age of the people involved. Had I not known for a fact that both of you are "mature" adults but that there's a chance a small kid might be the target of this, I might have looked into it.

anyways thanks for the idea of cummulative voting over time i might look into that.

It was 125 for a while, then dropped it to 100 so instead of a 20.5% profit per kuwal spent to buy at's on the trade center you only need to hit a 17% profit to earn more than the AT's you get for free would get you.
Considering the usual profit I aim for when hitting 0 def's is around 40-50% then I think either way it'd be far away from the minimum profit margin required.

But what you didnt consider is that with this update less people will sell their AT on the trade center. In fact, everyone who has SS and wants to sell AT, should simply get all free AT he can and sell them on galactic market, and people who could make some money selling AT, now can make much money easier by simply getting free AT and then farming without much care.

AT price will fall on trade center ONLY IF, more AT get sold to trade center, than bought. You ignored looking at the perspective of the AT seller:
AT seller sells 150 AT and gets 3,547,103,680 kuwal.
instead, he could use the 1 MT to buy 1/4 MR and get 31.25 AT

If he farms/raids randomly, he must steal at least:
3,547,103,680/181.25*10= 195.702.272 kuwal
to make more money by getting free AT than by selling them on the market.

I tell you, go raid randomly and you will raid units worth much more than 196 million.

now that it has been changed to +100 AT, you have to steal at least 202,7 million kuwal (1160 UU).

You only need to steal 203 million or 1160 UU per hit to earn more by getting free AT than selling AT in the trade center

I can raid 2000 UU with closed eyes.
There is no reason why anyone should be selling AT to trade center, and that's why there is no reason that trade center AT prices will fall because of this.

AT prices will fall however because of some other reason, namely that there are too many of them, and once farms pay out much less kuwal, people will be willing to sell them for a much lower price.

I was right.

Look at this:
AT prices fell as I expected.
You can buy 10 AT in the trade center for only

186.2 million

and you sell 10 AT for:

174 million

Current rates:
Kuwal Untrained Units Turns
[ 2,700,450,000 / 2,610,435,000 ] [ 17,550 / 16,965 ] [ 150 / 145 ]

Comparison to 20 Nov prices:

AT seller sold 150 AT in the trade center got 3,547,103,680 kuwal.
236.5 million per AT

now he gets only 174 million per AT

What does it mean?

AT price in the trade center has collapsed, and fell by 26.4% within 2 weeks in absolute terms.
Considering that without a change AT usually rises by a couple percent each week, AT price is now in reality 30-35% lower than what it should be without a change.

I rest my case

by Admin Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:25 pm

trade center prices changed but for a different reason.
Trade of ST for resources do not take out resources out of the market anymore, they did before.

since it meant that there'd less and less resources in total on the market eventually it'd drain the market completely, and also one of the reasons why it got to the 3.7 bil price which had nothing to do with reality.

But according to your logic, in 2 weeks it should drop to around 2.2 bil kuwal.

by Nomad Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:01 pm

See Kenzu, isn't it nice when things get changed and not communicated?

You say things you believe is correct and its not and often make yourself look foolish. Its why ALL changes should be communicated, not just a few Wink

by kingkongfan1 Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:48 pm

Spoiler:

1) I still do not see the harm in this...

2) I have SS & do not use the Trade Center, so I have noticed a slight drop in the cost of AT's on the GM, & still do not see the harm...

3) for the record, I still do not understand exactly what the fuss is here, prices fluxuate all the time on the market, & the game is still working just fine AFAIK,

by austin5650 Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:47 pm

kuwal...AT...UU

rock...paper...scissors?

( not that there should be some dice roll, or chance, but the value of the 3)

put checks and balances on the 3. There you have it.

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