Re: Trade Balance System

by Nomad Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:59 pm

Admin wrote:
Admin wrote:
Nomad wrote:OK. I am confused a bit here and hopefully I can explain why and you can help me understand.

1. How exactly does the personal trade ratio % progression/regression work?

is it
100,,,80,,,50,,,20,,,10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1-1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,,,20,,,50,,,80,,,100
exactly as you suggested
If you're in the negative then you sent away more than received (your account is smaller than it should be)
If you're in the positive then you received more than you sent away (your account is bigger than it should be)
Ok clarification because I misunderstood the color marking, thought you marked negative values with red color, but you wanted to know what PTR will show up as green or red on the base page.

Progression is as follows
...,-100,,,-80,,,-50,,,-20,,,-10,-9,-8,-7,-6,-5,-4,-3,-2,-1,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,,,20,,,50,,,80,,,100,...

Positive and negative is meant in a purely mathematical sense.
Positive > 0
Negative < 0

TY admin, yes that clears up alot of misunderstanding for me.

by damgood Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:21 pm

Admin wrote:ok, all those who were below -80% have had their ratios adjusted accordingly.

I had ~70% Transfer Ratio a while ago. Now when I've logged in: Transfer Ratio -93.82 %

by Admin Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:25 pm

oh yeh i know why, will fix it

by damgood Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:36 pm

Admin wrote:oh yeh i know why, will fix it

fixed, thank you

I have read on the updates page:
"You can reduce the ratio by either simply growing and increasing your account value, or send resources to friends if you have already received too much or having friends send you resources if you have already sent away too much.
Any trades you make on the Galactic Market selling your own and buying other people's offers will not have any effect on your Transfer Ratio"

When you are buying resources from market you growing therefore the PTR will change. Where am I mistaken ?

by Nomad Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:59 pm

I see it the way you do as well.

by Admin Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:32 pm

damgood wrote:fixed, thank you

I have read on the updates page:
"You can reduce the ratio by either simply growing and increasing your account value, or send resources to friends if you have already received too much or having friends send you resources if you have already sent away too much.
Any trades you make on the Galactic Market selling your own and buying other people's offers will not have any effect on your Transfer Ratio"

When you are buying resources from market you growing therefore the PTR will change. Where am I mistaken ?

GM trades will not affect your Net Transfers, unlilke brokers

by Nomad Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:44 pm

Admin wrote:
GM trades will not affect your Net Transfers, unlilke brokers

Yes, but it WILL increase your account value therefore reducing your PTR down slowly over time. Well that is if your trading for a profit, I guess if you trade for a loss it will drag it down.

by Vesper Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:11 am

So at what point are we in the screwed range? I was 80.23% and am at 78.53% now. As long as it doesn't start to sky rocket I will be fine right?

Also, do resources I have on the Galactic market count towards my account value? If I was to post like 100bil kuwal on the market to buy UU would that 100bil count towards my overall account value at all?

by seaborgium Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:20 am

ok I was down to 74.26% and that was down from the day before. Now it went up 74.52% and I haven't done any brokering, or sending/receiving in the last few days.

After looking at it, my grand totals didn't change.
so whats going on?
*edit*
After looking I did find it
[9/05/10-19:02.15] <~Seaborgium> Account Value 1,706,729 Turns
[9/05/10-19:02.15] <~Seaborgium> Transfer Ratio 74.28 %

The account value changed...
So not only are we fighting the Ratio, but we are fighting the change in, I assume Turn value, WEEE for triple sided swords

by seaborgium Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:45 am

Can you please update the /officerdetails.php with the new officer %

by Admin Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:51 am

seaborgium wrote:Can you please update the /officerdetails.php with the new officer %

the new limits are already up

by seaborgium Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:16 am

Admin wrote:
seaborgium wrote:Can you please update the /officerdetails.php with the new officer %
the new limits are already up

While I am sure you put in the % into the system, I was refurring to this

Everything above 100% or below 62.5% will be treated the same like sending resources to other players.

What about the item I posted about my ratio?

by Admin Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:33 am

Stuff you own on the gm doesn't count towards account value, for now. I might change that in the future. For now it was a bit too much bother having the code look for all trades that are yours and resources you haven't withdrawn.

seaborgium wrote:
Everything above 100% or below 62.5% will be treated the same like sending resources to other players.

This part of the update isn't active yet
People can know this update hasn't been activated yet since no one has received a single personal message reminding them that they should fix their ratio asap

seaborgium wrote:What about the item I posted about my ratio?

If units lose value in terms of turns, then your armysize which are units will also lose value. Hence your account value will drop

The reason why the ratio has dropped is because how the account value is calculated.
The kuwal you invest and units you lose gets valued at the time when you spend it and then the value gets "frozen" since you can't take this value anywhere anymore.
100 turns of units lost will always remain 100 turns of units.

This is where the a "problem" shows up. The units as your army size and kuwal in the bank have a certain value. But if the units lose value (i.e. instead of 60 units per turn, you now need to pay 65 units per turn) then your whole armysize has also lost in value.
If I didn't do this but used the "freezing" mechanism, one might end up with having 100 units which are worth 100 turns if they stay in their account, but sending these units away would only reduce their account value by 50. They have nothing in their account but it's worth 50 turns.
On the other hand one might also end up with having 100 units which are worth 50 turns, but sending these units away would reduce their account value by 100. (extreme examples but i'm trying to show the problem in a simple way)

by seaborgium Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:10 pm

Admin wrote:Stuff you own on the gm doesn't count towards account value, for now. I might change that in the future. For now it was a bit too much bother having the code look for all trades that are yours and resources you haven't withdrawn.

seaborgium wrote:
Everything above 100% or below 62.5% will be treated the same like sending resources to other players.
This part of the update isn't active yet
People can know this update hasn't been activated yet since no one has received a single personal message reminding them that they should fix their ratio asap

seaborgium wrote:What about the item I posted about my ratio?
If units lose value in terms of turns, then your armysize which are units will also lose value. Hence your account value will drop

The reason why the ratio has dropped is because how the account value is calculated.
The kuwal you invest and units you lose gets valued at the time when you spend it and then the value gets "frozen" since you can't take this value anywhere anymore.
100 turns of units lost will always remain 100 turns of units.

This is where the a "problem" shows up. The units as your army size and kuwal in the bank have a certain value. But if the units lose value (i.e. instead of 60 units per turn, you now need to pay 65 units per turn) then your whole armysize has also lost in value.
If I didn't do this but used the "freezing" mechanism, one might end up with having 100 units which are worth 100 turns if they stay in their account, but sending these units away would only reduce their account value by 50. They have nothing in their account but it's worth 50 turns.
On the other hand one might also end up with having 100 units which are worth 50 turns, but sending these units away would reduce their account value by 100. (extreme examples but i'm trying to show the problem in a simple way)

The 100-62.5 is the wording, you changed the rates, that is all I was pointing out. I not sure why you went off on that tangent.

As for the 2nd part.

What your saying is if we know someone is close to the ratio such as myself, then others during war could mass the tar our of me and get me into trouble...
So I guess that its good you still do manual bannings and such.

by Admin Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:12 pm

Didn't know what exactly you meant, your message wasn't really easy to interpret

massing you won't change your account value in the slightest

by seaborgium Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:34 pm

Nevermind, this system is too convoluted to even try to figure out.
I have to agree with nomad. If we got full details instead of having to pray them out 1 question at a time, maybe less issues/rash words would be said.

by Nimras Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:41 pm

Admin when do you open up for cross trading again?

As I would like to do that both ways as i do sell resources here for stuff in the other game and the same back i get resources here for stuff i sold in the other game.

by seaborgium Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:07 pm

He didn't stop it..
You just have to be mindful of your redline.

As for me, I not sure I like to deal with the ratio crap, so I will just be like the other lazy people and just not trade, I figure in about 3-4 months everyone else will catch up to me. Then we can have a tea party. We don't want a group to get stronger then *some* other alliance and be able to kick its rear with only a handful of players. Anyone have some tea? Oh Nomad I did finally get my kenny the commie doll. STUPID snail mail.

by Admin Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:20 pm

Sea I thought you'd cut the crap about kenzu having forced this through by now.

And yes, sorry not to have known that people would think that sending 5% of their account growth away will eventually get them past 20% ratio. It was a serious issue during most of the discussion

by Nimras Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:49 pm

Admin wrote:Sea I thought you'd cut the crap about kenzu having forced this through by now.

And yes, sorry not to have known that people would think that sending 5% of their account growth away will eventually get them past 20% ratio. It was a serious issue during most of the discussion

Admin Kenzu issue lol yes we all know about you and Kenzu so its ok.

But you still have stopped trading almost 100% with your bull to stop feeders and cheaters.

You have managed to stop everything but the feeders and cheaters.

Anyway i will start trading cross server again and I make it clear here and now I will do it and if my ratio goese because of it then to bad as i will not care about the ratio as i am not cheating or feeding or being feeded go hunt the real feeders and cheaters instead of us who play correctly.

This update should never have happen it should either been here from start not 2 years in because of a Admins paranoiya and Conspiracy Theoriese as he has jesus are there terrorists as well every where around you Admin?

by seaborgium Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:32 pm

Sorry to say admin, but with the things kenzu has posted here, no I don't have any direct post, due to being at work.
Having gotten message from players in WR.
Having seen things come out after things happened.
The fact that Kenzu got his rear handed to him on a few occasions at lot of the updates that you have made only show him and other ppl that don't have the same grasp of how to get ahead or how to make deals or spend a little time planning your moves are the ones who really run the game. I know 3 prominent players, top 20 accounts that are ready to pack it up and leave due to some of the updates.

I had an open mind about it at first. After a little posting/talks I started not to like it. After speaking to you and getting more info I was on the fence again.

After it has come out, I not happy with it.

I can't argue the high ratio I have. I know what I did to get it. I do feel kinda jaded that its coming back to haunt me.

by Admin Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:50 pm

seaborgium wrote:I can't argue the high ratio I have. I know what I did to get it. I do feel kinda jaded that its coming back to haunt me.

nothing's set in stone yet

by ian Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:58 pm

Admin, can you clarify this for me:

Will "normal" account growth result in the transfer ratio dropping over-time?

I.e. I thought it was meant to be based on the account's value... as thats how you described it before you implemented it. As at the moment my transfer ratio has barely dropped (by just over 1%) since it was implemented - and both my officer & commander bits are green...

So i d just like you to clarify - as if it *is* only affected by trade (and not normal basic growth) obviously I ll only get it to drop via dumping all my excessive resources elsewhere.... lol

by seaborgium Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:29 pm

mine dropped .74 then it went back up .3 so I not sure how to get it to drop very fast.

by Nimras Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:39 pm

Hmm it seems Admin your update is getting more and more people to leave and hate it.

Why you ruining your own game without listning making a Jason on us?

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