Re: Trade Balance System

by seaborgium Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:17 pm

Now for the next part of that same idea.....
In our talks admin you have said that not everything in your account is in the account value.
So...
What items are in the account value equation?

by Kenzu Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:32 pm

seaborgium wrote:Your kinda right kenzu.

PTR is a % of trades/account value

if your trades are 1% of your account value and you sell off UU your trades value doesn't change but your account value does.
So in affect it does change your PTR.

I was looking at selling off UU for Kuwal, so I could increase some stats, so currently I wouldn't be increasing my UU size.

As long as you trade on the GM and buy resources cheaper than market price or sell them more expensive than market price, your account value will be increasing and thus PTR improving.

Admin wrote:
Nomad wrote:Now I find myself asking how and why the GM does not effect PTR?
Found the mistake, sorry guys.

Apparently stuff you are trading on GM didn't get included in your account value (so your PTR kinda worsened until you traded and got your resources back).
Coding and uploading a fix now

Either way: Nomad you're right with your explanation. GM shouldn't affect your PTR since you gain stuff in return for other. Now depending on what kind of rates you do, it might move around. If you sell off cheaply only then in effect you're reducing your account value. However if you trade regularly and make profits, then your PTR will keep improving.

Obviously if you have a PTR of 1%, the differences will be far less noticeable than if your PTR is 20%

I'd like to add that it's like a leverage.
If you have a PTR of 1% then might fluctuate by 0.01% each day, but if your PTR is massive, then it will jump by much more.

by Nomad Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:35 pm

Kenzu wrote:
seaborgium wrote:Your kinda right kenzu.

PTR is a % of trades/account value

if your trades are 1% of your account value and you sell off UU your trades value doesn't change but your account value does.
So in affect it does change your PTR.

I was looking at selling off UU for Kuwal, so I could increase some stats, so currently I wouldn't be increasing my UU size.

As long as you trade on the GM and buy resources cheaper than market price or sell them more expensive than market price, your account value will be increasing and thus PTR improving.

But if this is true then why is it said trading on the GM does not effect your PTR?

*edit*
I got it, I see what your saying now. I think.

When you say your buying resources cheaper, or selling for more expensive, are you refering to doing so on the GM? or away from the GM?

by Admin Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:37 pm

seaborgium wrote:Now for the next part of that same idea.....
In our talks admin you have said that not everything in your account is in the account value.
So...
What items are in the account value equation?

weapon levels, spy and assassin skills
att/def/cov/ass techs
unit production
everything you lost that's part of war experience (not included in this are uu's stolen, kuwal lost and AT's used in farm/raid missions)
weapons in armory
kuwal on hand and bank
attack turns on hand
army size and respective training investments
everything on galactic market

by Kenzu Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:41 pm

Nomad wrote:
Kenzu wrote:
seaborgium wrote:Your kinda right kenzu.

PTR is a % of trades/account value

if your trades are 1% of your account value and you sell off UU your trades value doesn't change but your account value does.
So in affect it does change your PTR.

I was looking at selling off UU for Kuwal, so I could increase some stats, so currently I wouldn't be increasing my UU size.

As long as you trade on the GM and buy resources cheaper than market price or sell them more expensive than market price, your account value will be increasing and thus PTR improving.

But if this is true then why is it said trading on the GM does not effect your PTR?

Because it doesnt influence the "total received" "total sent" part of the formula.
Obviously trading on GM influences account value, just like anything you do in the game influences account value. And account value is a variable in the PTR calculation.

by Nomad Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:58 pm

Kenzu wrote:
Nomad wrote:
Kenzu wrote:
seaborgium wrote:Your kinda right kenzu.

PTR is a % of trades/account value

if your trades are 1% of your account value and you sell off UU your trades value doesn't change but your account value does.
So in affect it does change your PTR.

I was looking at selling off UU for Kuwal, so I could increase some stats, so currently I wouldn't be increasing my UU size.

As long as you trade on the GM and buy resources cheaper than market price or sell them more expensive than market price, your account value will be increasing and thus PTR improving.

But if this is true then why is it said trading on the GM does not effect your PTR?

Because it doesnt influence the "total received" "total sent" part of the formula.
Obviously trading on GM influences account value, just like anything you do in the game influences account value. And account value is a variable in the PTR calculation.

ok, I think I am getting it now. I see how GM can allow trading without effecting PTR now.

Thanks

by seaborgium Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:52 pm

So if I would happen to sell off my 25m and buy say weapon level 13 and 14.
my account is screwed due to you just listed everything that is in account value.

by Nomad Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:29 pm

seaborgium wrote:So if I would happen to sell off my 25m and buy say weapon level 13 and 14.
my account is screwed due to you just listed everything that is in account value.

Why? He has them listed in the account value?

I assume 25 m UU is roughly the same value as levels 13 and 14 combined? If so then your account overall value has not changed much?

Or did I miss something again?

by Admin Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:55 pm

Nomad wrote:
seaborgium wrote:So if I would happen to sell off my 25m and buy say weapon level 13 and 14.
my account is screwed due to you just listed everything that is in account value.

Why? He has them listed in the account value?

I assume 25 m UU is roughly the same value as levels 13 and 14 combined? If so then your account overall value has not changed much?

Or did I miss something again?

well if he sold the uu's for like 100k a piece and then bought weapon levels with them then it would probably be screwed.
selling them at regular price and your PTR shouldn't move a bit

by Mystake Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:20 pm

isn't the whole point of a market to have competitive and fluctuating prices?

what if I want to sell off 2m uu quickly, so I put them 10% below market price?

how am i supposed to create an incentive for ppl to buy?

by Nomad Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:52 pm

Not trying to be argumenative here Admin, but I was under the impression that the GM market allowed a certain % of variance, and that was all. No deal could be set outside of this veriance.

I was also under the impression that any deal done on GM would not effect someones PTR

(Directly anyway, the change in account value may effect it if big enough tho)

by kingkongfan1 Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:09 pm

Nomad wrote:Not trying to be argumenative here Admin, but I was under the impression that the GM market allowed a certain % of variance, and that was all. No deal could be set outside of this veriance.

I was also under the impression that any deal done on GM would not effect someones PTR

(Directly anyway, the change in account value may effect it if big enough tho)

Just wanted to say that I too was under the same impression as above, & wanted it clarified, is the above correct or not? thank you...

by Admin Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:03 pm

kingkongfan1 wrote:
Nomad wrote:Not trying to be argumenative here Admin, but I was under the impression that the GM market allowed a certain % of variance, and that was all. No deal could be set outside of this veriance.

I was also under the impression that any deal done on GM would not effect someones PTR

(Directly anyway, the change in account value may effect it if big enough tho)

Just wanted to say that I too was under the same impression as above, & wanted it clarified, is the above correct or not? thank you...

GM does not affect the amount of resources you send or receive in any way

If you decide to give away your account using the GM then that will get considered in the PTR since that's what it is, a ratio.
A ratio means it's affected by TWO numbers, not one.
If you are distributing apples then you can increase the amount of apples someone gets by getting more apples. You can also reduce the amount of people you give apples to
Obviously if you make profits on the GM then your PTR will improve favorably too

by Kenzu Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:36 pm

Mystake wrote:isn't the whole point of a market to have competitive and fluctuating prices?

what if I want to sell off 2m uu quickly, so I put them 10% below market price?

how am i supposed to create an incentive for ppl to buy?

If you do that, everyone will want to buy them for 2 reasons:

1) They buy things cheap from you
2) Their account value increases (they will end up with a little bit better PTR)

by kingkongfan1 Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:59 am

Admin wrote:
kingkongfan1 wrote:
Nomad wrote:Not trying to be argumenative here Admin, but I was under the impression that the GM market allowed a certain % of variance, and that was all. No deal could be set outside of this veriance.

I was also under the impression that any deal done on GM would not effect someones PTR

(Directly anyway, the change in account value may effect it if big enough tho)

Just wanted to say that I too was under the same impression as above, & wanted it clarified, is the above correct or not? thank you...
GM does not affect the amount of resources you send or receive in any way

If you decide to give away your account using the GM then that will get considered in the PTR since that's what it is, a ratio.
A ratio means it's affected by TWO numbers, not one.
If you are distributing apples then you can increase the amount of apples someone gets by getting more apples. You can also reduce the amount of people you give apples to
Obviously if you make profits on the GM then your PTR will improve favorably too

thank you for the explaination...

by Nomad Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:46 am

Kenzu wrote:
Mystake wrote:isn't the whole point of a market to have competitive and fluctuating prices?

what if I want to sell off 2m uu quickly, so I put them 10% below market price?

how am i supposed to create an incentive for ppl to buy?

If you do that, everyone will want to buy them for 2 reasons:

1) They buy things cheap from you
2) Their account value increases (they will end up with a little bit better PTR)

isnt that the point? you buy when these 2 conditions exist?

I mean you normally buy for 2 basic reasons
1) You NEED the resources, and you tend to pay more in this situation
2) You see a deal to good to pass up, or one you can profit from (impulse buying)

by Kingofshinobis1 Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:44 pm

Nomad wrote:
Kenzu wrote:
Mystake wrote:isn't the whole point of a market to have competitive and fluctuating prices?

what if I want to sell off 2m uu quickly, so I put them 10% below market price?

how am i supposed to create an incentive for ppl to buy?

If you do that, everyone will want to buy them for 2 reasons:

1) They buy things cheap from you
2) Their account value increases (they will end up with a little bit better PTR)

isnt that the point? you buy when these 2 conditions exist?

I mean you normally buy for 2 basic reasons
1) You NEED the resources, and you tend to pay more in this situation
2) You see a deal to good to pass up, or one you can profit from (impulse buying)

1 Untrained = 261,687 Kuwal

You sell your uu for this price and you will lose nothing. Plus people will buy those up because they are currently cheap. You could more than likely sell 5mil uu in 2 days at that price. I recently sold off some uu and my acc value increase dramatically. (12tril-14.5tril). PTR was not effected much though

by kingkongfan1 Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:51 am

11/22/12...
As I am currently actively attempting to bring my PTR down into the "acceptable" range, I am placing this here so I can come back from time to time to compare my progress...

Total sent
Kuwal 22,356,454,041,993
Untrained 129,723,634
Turns 303,513
Cumulative Value 3,268,209 Turns

Total received
Kuwal 20,635,803,662,447
Untrained 120,589,951
Turns 300,363
Cumulative Value 4,254,489 Turns

Grand Total
Kuwal -1,720,650,379,546
Untrained -9,133,683
Turns -3,150
Cumulative Value 986,280 Turns
Account Value 2,497,449 Turns
Transfer Ratio 39.49 %

It has become painfully obvious to me over the last few weeks that to get my PTR back to the acceptable "green" zone that I will need to give away 986,280 Turns, or 528,646,080 UU, or 203,994,454,325,760 kuwal or a combination thereof. my current army size is 120,059,000.

I want all to understand that I am not crying about this as it is what it is, I just needed something/somewhere so I could manage my progress

by castravete Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:57 pm

Hey, Kingkong...I'm here to help you if you want to lower your PTR...I could help you and hold those 986,280 AT's or 528646,080 or 203 tril for...lets say...a couple of years:P

by kingkongfan1 Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:27 pm

castravete wrote:Hey, Kingkong...I'm here to help you if you want to lower your PTR...I could help you and hold those 986,280 AT's or 528646,080 or 203 tril for...lets say...a couple of years:P

as soon as I can get the resources together I'll pm you, by my calc's it could take a year or more.

by Steveanaya Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:01 pm

If you can make TMI force AT to be worth much much less, and then you give away some, it should help speed along the process. If you make AT=UU for 1 day, you *could* only have to give away 1m UU and you'd be at 0%.

How difficult that would be, is unpredictable.

by seaborgium Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:38 pm

steve you lost me on that.
TMI doesn't have a set AT price

by Gamniac Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:31 pm

I think he's talking about the market price.
Have TMI start manipulating the market to make AT be worth hardly any UU, or something along those lines.

Which, by my calculations, would be a bit of a hassle.

by Steveanaya Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:20 pm

Eh. How many turns actually get traded nowadays? Like 2k a day? sure there would be ppl sweeping in trying to get profit out of this, but then again how many turns could they possibly trade?

Another issue would be:what account would you dump it all on? I doubt anybody would take 1m UU for a ruined Ptr for life.

I, on the other hand, could fix my Ptr by receiving 100m UU. Kingkongfan1, if you ever are looking for someone to fix your Ptr with, I'll be around for a while.

Heck I'd take 500m UU for a ruined Ptr anyway Smile

by Steveanaya Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:54 pm

Okay so I just noticed we have trade limits with private trading.

What do they mean? Will they force me to stop cash trades? What happened to just not going too far into the red with PTR?

"You can send up to 6,889 Turns without receiving anything in return
You can receive up to 69,070 Turns without sending anything in return

Based on your production, you can send/receive a value of 37,224/28,735 Turns
Your transfers equal to 30,335 Turns sent to others in total
Your remaining reserve for receiving extra resources is 10,000 Turns"

So I can only send 3.5m UU to others without receiving anything in return I.e.=a $$ trade? WOW. I sure hope I'm missing something here.

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