Aderan Raiding Policy

Yes, you would have to consult every one on the server, and ask them to post here saying that it can be changed to be properly thought out.

seaborgium wrote:you are changing the name of the thread and only Fire and WR have signed it.

Spoiler:

Seems Mujengan has abandoned this and returned to past ways.

using the wise words of baron Vladimir Harkonnen from Emperor Battle for Dune:

LET IT BE WAR THEN!
We WILL control Arrakis

Special Agent 47 wrote:

seaborgium wrote:you are changing the name of the thread and only Fire and WR have signed it.

Spoiler:

Seems Mujengan has abandoned this and returned to past ways.

And what do you suggest to do?

laugh

Kenzu wrote:
And what do you suggest to do?

Change the name of the thread... Maybe discuss this privately between yourselves so it doesn't look like the top T.o.C. officials cannot agree on policies?...

Yeah changing the name is a good place to start.
Might I suggest, "Yet another Failed Item by the Largest laugh, TOC"

DALETE

I would like to report that I Seaborgium have assassinated and sab the following players in order to get to there UU

Spoiler:

seaborgium wrote:I would like to report that I Seaborgium have assassinated and sab the following players in order to get to there UU

Spoiler:

Damn, Seaborgium, I saw some very interesting targets, but I figured that doing exactly this was totally out of the question as everyone hated it. Is the whole thing about not assassinating / sabbing people to get to their UU off then?
Might I suggest we stick to just assassinating as that leaves intact their weapons if they ever become active again?

I will be honest Jiro, this policy has nothing to do with TM, as we will not be bound by anything of this type.

LOL. The only alliances which are supposed to be bound to this (given they signed it) are World Republic & Mujengen.

I don't see any other alliances signature in this thread

Incidentally... Kenzu who did Seaborgium sabb/assassinate out of interest... ?

@ Seaborgium I d be interested in knowing your victims and whether or not they are in T.O.C

Thanks

1. haven't been asked
2. none are toc

I have come close to doing it to players in both TOC and TIE

just thought about this. Since it was WR and Muj that signed it and Muj unsigned it. If WR went to war over it would Muj help?

So Kenzu, since at one point WR and Muj signed this, and then Muj backed out not by posting a proper message, yet just by editing there post. I can only guess either to scared to make a stand or hoped noone would notice.

Does WR still plan to stand up for those who step forward?
If WR does, will they call on the rest of TOC, which from my understanding is just Muj.

I know in another post roughly 1-2 months after this was first posted you said that both Muj and WR defend/help each other.

Now would WR strike Muj if a player came to them about Muj doing it to them?

Would you call on TOC to help when you started a fight and then couldn't finish it?

I know 1 person I can get to post right now that can say that Muj took out his account over 700k uu.

I am looking forward to your answer.


Ish since you gave me this line over msn..

"Lord Ishurue says (9:04 PM):
idk . not fiber focused at this time. TNA wrestling is on . speak to kenzu that raid thing prolly slipped his mind."

Would Muj come to help WR as there alliance are in an empire and have a full pact with each other?

boo, I am sad.
Neither side said anything.
I figured Kenzu would have, he seems very out spoken.

Ish doesn't really surprise me. He was never one to post something that he couldn't change later to cover his lack of thought on something.

Kenzu wrote:

Special Agent 47 wrote:

seaborgium wrote:you are changing the name of the thread and only Fire and WR have signed it.

Spoiler:

Seems Mujengan has abandoned this and returned to past ways.

And what do you suggest to do?

I think you already have made your stance clear on what WR will do if someone ignores this policy....

Kenzu wrote:World Republic Stance

I, Keinutnai, leader of World Republic sign Aderan Raiding Policy on behalf of World Republic.
If anyone masses a player with the intention to steal untrained, he will have to pay a compensation to the victim, equal to 100% of all lost resources (military units lost, weapons lost, untrained). World Republic will help victims get their resources back. If the attacker doesn't want to pay back, his action are an equivalent to a declaration of war, and thus World Republic will fight back.

If you became victim of a massing raid, please contact WR leadership. We will help you!

My suggestion would be you honour what you yourself pledged to do - help get compensation for those victims who have suffered a mass-raid... and should the aggressors refuse to "pay back", that refusal would, in your own words, be a declaration of war on World Republic which you would fight back against.

@ Seaborgium. If you know someone who's a victim of a mass-raid, have him contact WR's leadership so Kenzu & WR get the opportunity to honor their pledge... & since Mujengen is probably the aggressors, that means:

1.) If WR turn a blind eye to it their pledge becomes meaningless....... and with it their honour & word. Couple that with the "covert" withdrawal by Mujengen from this policy without saying anything (just editing the post which they d originally signed this policy with) then the implications will basically be *both* T.O.C alliances will have dishonored their pledges & shown their word cannot be trusted.

2.) If WR honour it.... then it ll likely be at the expense of their fellow T.O.C alliance Mujengen.... and if Mujengen refuse compensation, based on Kenzu's own words... that would be a declaration of war by Mujengen on World Republic to which WR would "fight back".

All we need now is some victims of Mujengen mass-raiding to make the actions done against them known, and for them to report it to the WR-Leadership... and we can then get this ball rolling - at stake, the honour & integrity of World Republic & the unity of T.O.C... and with it, the wider ramifications & risks - that should *both* T.O.C alliances be shown to dishonour this previous pledge, it will cast all remaining/existing agreement's/pledges by T.O.C into doubt... such as peace treaty's & agreed farming policies - and whether or not T.O.C will just choose to ignore/dishonour those when they become inconvenient.

One could even argue that should both T.O.C alliances be shown to not honour such a fundamentally important pledge such as this - regarding the massing of innocent non-hostile accounts by their members & their (WR's) pledge to defend (by war if necessary) those accounts against such massings - then any other alliance or empire with any other existing agreements with T.O.C would be well within its rights to simply terminate those agreements out of disgust/protest that T.O.C would show such a lack of resolution, poor faith or even be unable to be trusted to the most basic of levels in their ability or willingness to uphold important agreements & pledges they have made....

So Kenzu... by all means DO respond to Seaborgium - as leader of The Marauders alliance - question. I - as leader of The Imperium - am personally also *very* interested in your answer... and I m fairly confident I can say I represent a large chunk of members who also will be interested in your answer (and who WILL be notified of this thread shortly).

Ignoring a problem does not make it go away.... and when it comes to a pledge such as what you ve personally made on behalf of WR - and then ignoring it when its inconvenient... silence really is proof of guilt - the guilt in question in this case being the breach & dishonoring of a pledge made by both Mujengen and (depending on your response) World Republic.

Think carefully about how your going to handle this.

ian wrote:

Kenzu wrote:

Special Agent 47 wrote:

seaborgium wrote:you are changing the name of the thread and only Fire and WR have signed it.

Spoiler:

Seems Mujengan has abandoned this and returned to past ways.

And what do you suggest to do?

I think you already have made your stance clear on what WR will do if someone ignores this policy....

Kenzu wrote:World Republic Stance

I, Keinutnai, leader of World Republic sign Aderan Raiding Policy on behalf of World Republic.
If anyone masses a player with the intention to steal untrained, he will have to pay a compensation to the victim, equal to 100% of all lost resources (military units lost, weapons lost, untrained). World Republic will help victims get their resources back. If the attacker doesn't want to pay back, his action are an equivalent to a declaration of war, and thus World Republic will fight back.

If you became victim of a massing raid, please contact WR leadership. We will help you!

My suggestion would be you honour what you yourself pledged to do - help get compensation for those victims who have suffered a mass-raid... and should the aggressors refuse to "pay back", that refusal would, in your own words, be a declaration of war on World Republic which you would fight back against.

@ Seaborgium. If you know someone who's a victim of a mass-raid, have him contact WR's leadership so Kenzu & WR get the opportunity to honor their pledge... & since Mujengen is probably the aggressors, that means:

1.) If WR turn a blind eye to it their pledge becomes meaningless....... and with it their honour & word. Couple that with the "covert" withdrawal by Mujengen from this policy without saying anything (just editing the post which they d originally signed this policy with) then the implications will basically be *both* T.O.C alliances will have dishonored their pledges & shown their word cannot be trusted.

2.) If WR honour it.... then it ll likely be at the expense of their fellow T.O.C alliance Mujengen.... and if Mujengen refuse compensation, based on Kenzu's own words... that would be a declaration of war by Mujengen on World Republic to which WR would "fight back".

All we need now is some victims of Mujengen mass-raiding to make the actions done against them known, and for them to report it to the WR-Leadership... and we can then get this ball rolling - at stake, the honour & integrity of World Republic & the unity of T.O.C... and with it, the wider ramifications & risks - that should *both* T.O.C alliances be shown to dishonour this previous pledge, it will cast all remaining/existing agreement's/pledges by T.O.C into doubt... such as peace treaty's & agreed farming policies - and whether or not T.O.C will just choose to ignore/dishonour those when they become inconvenient.

One could even argue that should both T.O.C alliances be shown to not honour such a fundamentally important pledge such as this - regarding the massing of innocent non-hostile accounts by their members & their (WR's) pledge to defend (by war if necessary) those accounts against such massings - then any other alliance or empire with any other existing agreements with T.O.C would be well within its rights to simply terminate those agreements out of disgust/protest that T.O.C would show such a lack of resolution, poor faith or even be unable to be trusted to the most basic of levels in their ability or willingness to uphold important agreements & pledges they have made....

So Kenzu... by all means DO respond to Seaborgium - as leader of The Marauders alliance - question. I - as leader of The Imperium - am personally also *very* interested in your answer... and I m fairly confident I can say I represent a large chunk of members who also will be interested in your answer (and who WILL be notified of this thread shortly).

Ignoring a problem does not make it go away.... and when it comes to a pledge such as what you ve personally made on behalf of WR - and then ignoring it when its inconvenient... silence really is proof of guilt - the guilt in question in this case being the breach & dishonoring of a pledge made by both Mujengen and (depending on your response) World Republic.

Think carefully about how your going to handle this.

@seaborgium...
@Ian...
@SA47...
... Well Said...

Lol, well to be honest it needed to be said... and since Seaborgium/SA47 have highlighted the issues with this policy, I figured its time The Imperium finally makes known our stance... & unfortunately, our stance is not limited to just the dishonouring of this pledge by T.O.C, or the ignoring of views & requests made by members of AW in just this thread.

As such, the below was sent to Kenzu - and forwarded to Lord Ishurue. I m putting it here so there is no doubt or dispute over any resulting future events.



Subject: Diplomatic Notification.

Hey.

As leader of The Marauders, Seaborgium recently brought to light a serious issue regarding a previous pledge/agreement made by Mujengen & T.O.C potentially being dishonoured by both of your alliances:

https://aderanwars.forumotion.com/empire-wars-treaties-f3/aderan-raiding-policy-t1522.htm

As leader of The Imperium, I hereby request confirmation (on that thread) from World Republic regarding the issues Seaborgium has raised - and regarding the issues/ view point I also have pointed out.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In addition, as leader of The Imperium, I must - once again - make known The Imperium's protests at the compensation policy adopted by Mujengen......:

https://aderanwars.forumotion.com/alliance-wars-treaties-f4/mujengan-trial-compensation-policy-t1871.htm

We believe that it represents a unilateral decision made by Mujengen without the rightful consultation of ourselves - The Imperium, which fundamentally alters the agreed policy TIE & T.O.C had.

In addition, I must protest in the strongest possible terms at the stance taken by Mujengen in basically ignoring our previous protests initially... and more recently, the lack of response or willingness by Mujengen to make a final decision regarding a settlement/compromise over the issues addressed in the above thread.

The proposed solution by both WR & The Imperium still remains unanswered - over 10 days after the initial proposal was made - giving a strong indication that it is now intentionally being ignored.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

As is required under the agreed upon Imperium-T.O.C peace agreement - specifically the bit with regard to honesty & trying to ensure peaceful relations continue - I must inform you that a failure by T.O.C/ Yourself to respond in a timely & adequate fashion to all points raised in the above topics - will result in The Imperium giving serious & real consideration to disbanding the TIE-T.O.C farming policy and unilaterally adopting our own regardless of T.O.C's views, thoughts or own policies.

I must also inform you, that as a precaution - orders have been issued to The Imperium requesting the stockpiling of kuwal & Untrained Units for emergency use in the event that The Imperium should make the decision to terminate the TIE-TOC farming policy, and T.O.C should respond in a "unfriendly" manner to that termination.

I would reiterate, however, that IF The Imperium is forced to give serious thought to terminating the TIE-TOC farming policy, and that IF we do decide to terminate the TIE-TOC farming policy... we have NO intention of terminating the peace-treaty itself... specifically the bit regarding the prohibition of hostile actions & the agreement we had regarding being honest with one another & trying to maintain peaceful relations.

I await your response with anticipation.

Regards.

Ian - Senatorum Imperialis.

So........... now we wait & see what the response is to The Imperium's perfectly friendly & diplomatic, official diplomatic notification of our intent.

Unless I m mistaken.... no-one can remotely try and accuse The Imperium of not abiding by the agreed TOC-TIE peace treaty, or of being deceitful or anything else given we ve been completely honest with TOC & have made known our views giving them chance to find a response/offer a agreeable solution *before* TIE ,proceedes ahead with "reviewing" the previously agreed TIE-TOC farming policy and whether or not to terminate it on the grounds of an official protest at T.O.C's lack of faith & resolution in enforcing or upholding a pledge (Raid Policy) both T.O.C alliances previously made regarding the massing of (innocent) accounts in order to raid them, coupled with protesting at the unilateral changes adopted by Mujengen with regard to compensation, *without* prior-consultation of The Imperium and then further (initially) refusal to even discuss amending those changes.

The only reason the TIE-TOC policy even continues to exist is because LI in fairness to him did discuss a possible solution with myself about the breaches.... however we have yet to find a final solution.... all the while in which Mujengen's current breach policy continues to be enforced despite The Imperium's protests/thoughts.

Everyday in which a solution is not found and that policy is enforced is a slap in the face to The Imperium (given we ve protested) and a punch in the gut to the intended reasons (peaceful co-existence) behind TIE & TOC having a policy.

TIE doesn't like being ignored or side-lined when it comes to policies we are signatories to.... and given a final solution could be a long-way off.... it really does mean we can essentially be delayed by "continued negotiations" during which the policy continues to be enforced.

As such... TIE's following Mujengens example and placing its own time-limit on proceedings... except not on breach-proceedings.. but on actual diplomatic proceedings.

T.O.C has untill TIE gets fed up of waiting to deal appropriately with the numerous issues raised, before we decide for ourselves what to do with the TIE-TOC farming policy....

OI
I wasn't going that far lol.
I just was pointing it out here.
I wanted it to be shown that not all alliances are good with what they do or handle.
While I can say that TIE aren't the cleanest.

I will sat that The Marauders are, as an alliance. We don't hide what we do. We don't have a pretext of who we are. This is a war game.
We treat it as such. While we agree to some things in the game. We don't agree with everyones stance/ideals.

seaborgium wrote:OI
I wasn't going that far lol.
I just was pointing it out here.
I wanted it to be shown that not all alliances are good with what they do or handle.
While I can say that TIE aren't the cleanest.

I will sat that The Marauders are, as an alliance. We don't hide what we do. We don't have a pretext of who we are. This is a war game.
We treat it as such. While we agree to some things in the game. We don't agree with everyones stance/ideals.

Lol, you asked a question/raised a point.. and are "sad" that "Neither side has said anything.".

I merely pointed out to them you raised a question/issue.... and then told them TIE requests confirmation on the points you raised - as they were good points.

We could have raised those points ourselves... but whats the point? We d have just been essentially repeating what you said... and it would have looked like we copied your point... which we would have.

Hence.. much easier to refer to what we want confirmation on (your points) than to rewrite your points and then add them to our points....

Think of it like a local-community meeting regarding something (say internet due to be cut of by a service provider). One local may ask the company a question... and get a response. Another local can then refer to that local's question and ask for further confirmation from the company regarding the local's question/issue if they feel, for themselves, it to be unsatisfactory.

Given there has yet to be a response to your question... The "Company" (TOC)'s response is unsatisfactory for TIE.

As for TIE not being the cleanest.. I think everyone knows that. I ve actually lost count of the amount of times I personally said that (in much more detail) in the TIE-TOC war as well - listing all our guilty actions/responsibilities etc... etc.... lol.

Noone's under any illusion about that point... at least they shouldn't be, given its written in plain-black & white by TIE itself lol.

OI...
Just as long as everyone understands that TIE and TM aren't working together on this. I have no interest in TOC and TIE relations.

seaborgium wrote:OI...
Just as long as everyone understands that TIE and TM aren't working together on this. I have no interest in TOC and TIE relations.

We aren't. Our relations have never been very good right from the beginning ever since you & SA abandoned us.......

Well I can't help it... You refused to get a shower.

I was asked about something I posted but yet still no official statement.

@ian
I recommend you will stop trying to make World Republic look bad. Also, World Republic is not responsible for actions of players who aren't members of World Republic. There is no reason why World Republic should pay for people who aren't in World Republic.
Btw, Your way of talking is getting on my nerves again. How about you talk in a way that doesn't piss people off?

@seaborgium

seaborgium wrote:So Kenzu, since at one point WR and Muj signed this, and then Muj backed out not by posting a proper message, yet just by editing there post. I can only guess either to scared to make a stand or hoped noone would notice.

Does WR still plan to stand up for those who step forward?

Depends on what you mean by "standing up for those who step forward"

If WR does, will they call on the rest of TOC, which from my understanding is just Muj.

I know in another post roughly 1-2 months after this was first posted you said that both Muj and WR defend/help each other.

Now would WR strike Muj if a player came to them about Muj doing it to them?

There is no reason why an alliance should be made responsible for an action of 1 person.
World Republic would ask the person or people involved in the mass-raid to pay a compensation to cover all damage caused.

Would you call on TOC to help when you started a fight and then couldn't finish it?

What do you mean by that?

I know 1 person I can get to post right now that can say that Muj took out his account over 700k uu.

I am looking forward to your answer.

Tell that person to message me, tell him to join WR, and if I see that he has really mass raided,
I will do my best to get Mujengan to cover the damage caused.


Ish since you gave me this line over msn..

"Lord Ishurue says (9:04 PM):
idk . not fiber focused at this time. TNA wrestling is on . speak to kenzu that raid thing prolly slipped his mind."

Would Muj come to help WR as there alliance are in an empire and have a full pact with each other?

If anyone masses members of TOC, all TOC alliances and allies will obviously come to aid to take out the agressor.
I hope this answers your questions