World Republic & Commonwealth

by Kenzu Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:47 pm

Let me reply to ian's funny post
My reply is marked in green:

ian wrote:
Kenzu wrote:World Republic has never bullied smaller alliances, which makes your whole post worthless.

Except you ve bullied smaller players, and pretty frequently if your forum is anything to go by (i did enjoy looking around it, and especially enjoyed your battle group things where WR members volunteer for, with the frequent updates of the "brave actions" fought against enemies of the world republic)

I haven't looked in your forum, so expected that you will have enough honor not to look either. This again proves how deceitful you are. No wonder so many people don't like you.

Anyway... this is irrelevant i m afraid. You see kenzu - you ve made a significant mistake - that is that you ve concentrated on convincing the rest of aderan wars that world republic isn't an hostile alliance - at the expense of discrediting and insulting The Commonwealth, The Company and The Imperium empire as a whole.

I didnt insult anyone. All the things I have said are based on facts and you cannot deny that! Just look how you behave on the forums. Are you trying to be the World Police or what?

You had evil intensions with World Republic already before we went into contact. Just have a look at the first posts you made in regard to WR.

In so doing, your just digging yourself a ever deeper hole - one which is almost down to a depth of 6 foot i m afraid - and it is only a matter of time if you carry on like you are, before The Imperium helps you "fill" that hole back in, minus yourself being on the surface.

By all means continue to manipulate others, and by inspiring and spreading fear of The Imperium, gather a ever larger crowd of completely irrelevant smaller players who won't make even a slight difference when The Imperium comes for World Republic - but know that everytime you do this - it just makes it ever more probable that The Imperium's patience will expire, and with it World Republic's life expectancy.

If World Republic ever falls, the game will fall with it, because there cannot be success for a game where two allied alliances dominate all.

By the way - we know EXACTLY who World Republic's operative is in The Commonwealth's ranks - i ll give you a clue - his ingame i.d is between 950 and 1200. That means we know for a FACT that you ve breached the ultimatum and intentionally attempted to mislead myself and The Imperium. You ll undoubtedly deny this publically on this forum... but given we know for a FACT the identity of your operative along with the sort of info you ve been recieving (mainly in that we ve been misleading him for the last several weeks with false info ), anything you say won't make the slightest difference to what and when The Imperium's military response will be for this treachery.

You have 6 people in that ID range. Tell us the name of the person? Do you want World Republic to mass that person and you will promise that you will not revenge him/her?

There are only a handful of ways you and World Republic will now avoid the impending consequences - lieing outright to us, trying to rally others against us and insulting us isn't one of them. I m giving you one last chance to come clean with what you have been doing, and to withdraw your operative from our ranks. The fact you lied to me outright on the ultimatum, and continue to outright lie to me even now is what assures Imperium hostility towards World Republic - since by its very definition, lieing, manpipulating, attempting to mislead and keeping an operative in another alliance is an act of war. This is your last chance for a clean slate, i won't offer World Republic it again.

It seems like you are trying to provoke a war. you are braking the conduct, which you have set yourself for your alliance.
I have never lied to you.

But - to clarify once and for all just which of The Commonwealth and the World Republic are the real aggressors, perhaps you could fill the rest of the server in by answering the below questions honestly?

1.) How many players has The Commonwealth ever massed, assassinated, sabbed, invaded - or generally performed any form of hostile action (other than farming/ raiding) against since our time on Aderan Wars?
I don't keep track of what your alliance is doing. You are responsible for your actions. I am sure you have massed, assassinated, or sabbed a couple of people

2.) How many players has World Republic ever massed, assassinated, sabbed, invaded - or generally performed any form of hostile action (other than farming/ raiding) against since your time on Aderan Wars?
Most likely more than your alliance, since our alliance has more members than all top 18 alliances combined (excluding WR of course.)
3.) How many players has The Commonwealth ever contacted requesting them to sell information on their alliance, to betray their alliance - or to become Commonwealth operatives?
You have actively looked for spies in our alliance, which I find unhonest from you, since you were the one who wanted that there will be no spies.
4.) How many players has World Republic ever contacted requesting them to sell information on their alliance, to betray their alliance - or to become World Republic operatives?
None since the time we have agreed to the ultimatum.
5.) How many wars on the server has The Commonwealth had any direct or indirect participation/ influence in?
No idea, and I don't care. But what I know is that you like threatening people that you will go to war with them and you have sent messages to everyone in the World Republic to leave the alliance promising that there will be a war which will erradicate WR.
6.) How many wars on the server has World Republic ever had any direct or indirect participation/ influence in?
More than your alliance, since the number of players of WR is as much as top 18 alliances!

For the rest of the server, whether friend, foe or neutral - i challenge ANY of you to answer the above 6 questions honestly and truthfully.

The Commonwealth is many things - but we are not what Kenzu makes us out to be - that of an aggressive, bullying, manipulative alliance. I challenge ANYONE with evidence to support Kenzu's claims and slanders against The Commonwealth to make it known on this thread.

If you are not aggressive, not bullying and not manipulative, why do you give us ultimatums and try to bully WR every time you can and why do you lie to us all the time?

You don't bully anyone?
If you don't bully anyone, why are you bullying World Republic and asking for 68.000.000.000 kuwal and threatening that you will go to war with us if we don't pay?

The only alliance currently who has anything to fear from The Commonwealth and The Imperium as a whole, is World Republic and anyone who aligns with them - and that is because they do harm to our reputation, our influence and our future prosperous perspectives on the server by spreading such slander, and by the webs of deceit which they wieve.

Those of the smaller alliances tempted to seek a mutual defence pact with World Republic - except those who already have a Defence pact (thus are deemed to consent and support World Republic conduct and foreign policy) - i give you FULL and a public garantee that you will not be harmed by The Imperium, now or in the future - without a justified reason (such as your conducting hostile actions such as sabbing, assassinations, assault or invasion missions against Imperium members - or threatening Imperium members, or over-farming/ raiding Imperium members etc...).

Of course you will not harm them. Afterall they are too small to be a threat to you. But if any of the alliances would grow strong enough to do you harm, you would be afraid of them, because you would know that they wouldn't forget your arrogance and what you have done in the past. You would take down each of those who would be strong enough to be a threat to you. One by one.

But you will not be successful, because World Republic will not let that happen!

For those of you with a defence pact - or those considering it, what World Republic is doing is to seek to save itself. They know the crimes they ve committed against The Imperium, and they know the continued lies and hostility they wield against The Imperium even now - and they know that an Imperium military response is inevitable. Thus they seek a defence pact, with the terms that only those who *aren't* the aggressors should be aided. Thus when the day comes that The Imperium responds to World Republic's numerous acts of war and hostility against us, they will call for aid - and they will tell you they have done nothing to The Imperium, and are the victims.

World Republic has a military, powerful enough to defend itself and others. Nevertheless we are interested in friendly relations with all alliances, which want Order.

When that day comes - which unless Kenzu confesses to the crimes committed by World Republic - will come, you will be bound to enter this war - for who of you knows or can prove that World Republic is the aggressor? The answer is none of you - World Republic have kept you and most of its memberbase in the dark regarding their conduct - thus they will call for aid, and you will have a choice - join in a futile war against The Imperium due to having no proof of World Republic aggression/ provocation of the attack - or to refuse to enter, in which case you will be branded traitors and oath breakers by World Republic, and for ever more have their vengeance and hatred directed at you.

What hatred are you talking about? Is it common for your alliance members to hate your alliance?

Believe me or ignore my advice - its your call - but to all small alliances with relations with World Republic, or considering relations with World Republic - if you seek and agree to a mutual defence pact with world republic, you will be placing yourselves in an impossible position where you will eithier have to fight beside World Republic, or not come ot their aid, and thus be accussed of treason and betrayal by them - and consequently suffer the results.

You make things sound very bad. Probably have a lot of experience with how your empire treats its members.

Act now and avoid the snares and webs of Kenzu and World Republic - act and renounce any agreements you may have, and if you have no agreements, act to keep it that way. The board is set, and the pieces are moving.... i don't think any of you want to become porns in a fight not of your making.

Finally... unless i m mistaken The Commonwealth is now rank 2 on the alliance rankings - having just replaced World Republic, knocking them down to rank 3

Congratulations kilo!
Doest it mean that your alliance is declaring war on World Republic?

Tell us the names of the spies in our alliance and tell us the usernames on the forum, which are spies.

Afterall you have made a promise to everyone in the forum that your alliance will not attack us, if we fulfil your demands.
We have fulfilled them and you have agreed not to attack us.

If your alliance goes to war with World Republic, you will brake your word and no one can ever trust you!

ian wrote:
Kenzu wrote:Most of the deceit and treachery comes from Commonwealth, but you know it, Ian.
You are spying on WR and hunting nonexistent spies in your own alliance with radical zeal.
You say you will reward spies who will cooperate with you, but actually you want to punish them for not being loyal to you.
Why aren't they loyal? Is it because you don't respect your members and think only about yourself?

Do you think such a chaotic way of governing an alliance will lead to success?

Please be specific about this "deciet and treachery" conducted by The Commonwealth Kenzu.... serously, you have a great chance to smash The Commonwealth'd credibility sideways - so throw everything you have at us which can harm us. If you can't back up that claim though... i suspect it ll show it for the lie which it is.

You want that we don't have any spies, but you are spying on us yourself.

As for hunting nonexistence spies in our ranks. Did it ever occur to you that your asking some of our members to be spies for you - when at the time we only had 2 - 3 members who weren't from The Commonwealth from Dune (as in, members who i trust without question due to years of service), kinda limited the number of candidates who could be spies for you - and that your asking members to be spies, pretty much assurred i was alerted straight away to your attempts, and thus took actions to ensure that of those not from TC on dune, we were able to test their loyalty?

If you follow a small diversion army into a dark forest, not knowing the wherabouts of the forest, you are not an able leader.
You catch yourself in each possible trap which is set up. I don't think someone who led an alliance for so long would make such mistakes.

There is no spy hunt i m afraid - the hunt never even began due to the precautions always taken in the Commonwealth - and we ve known who your agent is long bbefore i even issued that ultimatum. Your spy an ingame I.D between 900 > 1,200... i know who he is, you know who he is. Do you really still think i don't know who it is, and haven't known all this time? Do you really still think that i wouldn't take precautions to mislead and falsify information knowing you would recieve it? Do you really still think i don't know for a fact that your lieing to me - and thus will act to put an permament end to World Republic's ability to lie to me. That agent's prosperity lives only so long as he (unintentionally) serves The Commonwealth by enabling us to lead World Republic in completely the wrong direction. He ll suffer for his treason soon.... unless your prepared to publically admit your lies and deceit to The Commonwealth, compensate us for your hostility (i think a 68,000,000,000 compensation - 2billion per TC member - would be fair given you ve done nothing but lie to us, lie about us and spreading fear and resentment towards anyone marching under the banner of The Commonwealth - which inevitably impacts how players deal and interact with Commonwealth members, hurting them ingame and in terms of being part of the community), and withdraw him out of The Commonwealth to wherever you want to put him next.

Before you said the spy is between 950 and 1200, now you say he is between 900 and 1200. Does it mean the spy is between 900 and 950, or it means that you are loosing your certainness?

Ever heard of Provocateurs? It might be possible that someone employ a person in your alliance to serve as a provocateur, who shall make you believe that WR has spies in your alliance, when in fact we don't. Someone might benefit a lot from a war between Commonwealth and World Republic.

With a leader like you, Ian, The Comonwealth needs no spies. You are very predictable. Your intension to destroy WR is long known and no secret to us.

As for The Commonwealth surviving - we survived EVERYTHING our enemies threw at us on Dune, and we ve lasted for over 3 years now. I can assure you the ENTIRE memberbase of The Commonwealth is loyal (with the exception of your agent) and any way of governing i may have... is by its very definition a successfull way since we ve never yet failed to become a major/ superpower on any game we ve played, coupled with lasting a very very long time.

Tread very carefully Kenzu, you ve awoken a sleeping dragon - one which won't hesitate to turn you into a spicy char grilled rib (though ribs might well have more intelligeance when it comes to foreign policy than WR combined).

Nice Winston Churchill quote.
Let me rephrase to the original:
"Beware the sleeping dragon. For when she awakes the Earth will shake."
(China)

I think asking us to pay 68.000.000.000 kuwal and threatening that you will go to war if we dont pay is a proof enough that Ian/kilo and his alliance are agressive bullies.

Afterall this is not the first time you try to bully and threaten.

by ian Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:56 pm

LOL, i ll deal with your points when i get back from the pub - in the mean time i ll take it that by your telling me you have no spies in our alliance, after i offerred you a last chance to come clean - as a outright rejection of the last chance i offerred you for peace.

From here on in, no diplomacy will be offerred to World Republic in order to avoid war. You just blew your last chance. I will be debating with The Imperium high command, and you can expect a official diplomatic response delivered to this rejection inside of the next 24hours.

Now i m going to go drop a PM to a certain player, I think aderan wars will much enjoy the revelations he will reveal - suffice it to say though Kenzu - you ve been played like a fiddle right from day 1 Very Happy

Incidentally - this title should be World Republic and The Imperium - everything i do The Imperium HC knows about, and supports. We are now one - so please modify the title (or admin if you could do so?)

by Kenzu Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:11 pm

ian wrote:LOL, i ll deal with your points when i get back from the pub - in the mean time i ll take it that by your telling me you have no spies in our alliance, after i offerred you a last chance to come clean - as a outright rejection of the last chance i offerred you for peace.

From here on in, no diplomacy will be offerred to World Republic in order to avoid war. You just blew your last chance. I will be debating with The Imperium high command, and you can expect a official diplomatic response delivered to this rejection inside of the next 24hours.

Now i m going to go drop a PM to a certain player, I think aderan wars will much enjoy the revelations he will reveal - suffice it to say though Kenzu - you ve been played like a fiddle right from day 1

Incidentally - this title should be World Republic and The Imperium - everything i do The Imperium HC knows about, and supports. We are now one - so please modify the title (or admin if you could do so?)

If you don't tell me, who your spies in our alliance are, you will have no right to ask us not to have spies in your alliance and we will respond by starting to place our spies into your alliance.

Is it possible you have multiple accounts (how else could you see the forum yourself, only members are allowed to have a username, which means that you have registered with a second account and joined WR).

by Nomad Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:23 pm

Why dont you two go get a room? Smile

by darkshield Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:09 pm

darn it Kenzu, Ian's posts are long enough with out you adding to them Smile

by Kenzu Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:23 pm

darkshield wrote:darn it Kenzu, Ian's posts are long enough with out you adding to them

I guess you haven't read it.

by . Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:14 pm

the empire is one indeed the commonwealth will never be alone in any case we fully back each other.

if ian isn't right he would be alone then even the commonwealth members wouldn't be behind him. but he acts fair in every way.

and spies how sure are you that the commonwealth has a spy as far as i know none ...

by darkshield Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:22 pm

haven't read what?!? do you even realise that what you write most of the time has no context to what it is you are replying to.
u added to Ians post (therefore making it longer, a 2 year old could work that out) so what is it that you mean by i haven't read it?

by Sandwalker Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:28 pm

darkshield wrote:haven't read what?!? do you even realise that what you write most of the time has no context to what it is you are replying to.
u added to Ians post (therefore making it longer, a 2 year old could work that out) so what is it that you mean by i haven't read it?

I guess you didn't see that sign yesterday.

by darkshield Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:22 pm

what sign?

by Vesper Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:39 pm

Kenzu wrote:Let me reply to ian's funny post
My reply is marked in green:

ian wrote:
Kenzu wrote:World Republic has never bullied smaller alliances, which makes your whole post worthless.

Except you ve bullied smaller players, and pretty frequently if your forum is anything to go by (i did enjoy looking around it, and especially enjoyed your battle group things where WR members volunteer for, with the frequent updates of the "brave actions" fought against enemies of the world republic)

I haven't looked in your forum, so expected that you will have enough honor not to look either. This again proves how deceitful you are. No wonder so many people don't like you.

So many players dont like Ian? or Members of WR dont like Ian? Ian is used to having enemies due to him being brutally honest and exploiting others flaws

Anyway... this is irrelevant i m afraid. You see kenzu - you ve made a significant mistake - that is that you ve concentrated on convincing the rest of aderan wars that world republic isn't an hostile alliance - at the expense of discrediting and insulting The Commonwealth, The Company and The Imperium empire as a whole.

I didnt insult anyone. All the things I have said are based on facts and you cannot deny that! Just look how you behave on the forums. Are you trying to be the World Police or what?

I wouldnt mind being world police if your taking applications. If you ask me it seems WR was the alliance that massed smaller players just starting in the game where they have near no chance to fight back in order to "police" them

You had evil intensions with World Republic already before we went into contact. Just have a look at the first posts you made in regard to WR.

In so doing, your just digging yourself a ever deeper hole - one which is almost down to a depth of 6 foot i m afraid - and it is only a matter of time if you carry on like you are, before The Imperium helps you "fill" that hole back in, minus yourself being on the surface.

By all means continue to manipulate others, and by inspiring and spreading fear of The Imperium, gather a ever larger crowd of completely irrelevant smaller players who won't make even a slight difference when The Imperium comes for World Republic - but know that everytime you do this - it just makes it ever more probable that The Imperium's patience will expire, and with it World Republic's life expectancy.

If World Republic ever falls, the game will fall with it, because there cannot be success for a game where two allied alliances dominate all.

Big statement there. You make it sound as thought WR controls the game. When an empire falls a new one will arise. I actually feel that WR getting decimated will help the game grow as many of the smaller accounts will not be lured by their lies and then form their own alliances and create a larger base for AW

By the way - we know EXACTLY who World Republic's operative is in The Commonwealth's ranks - i ll give you a clue - his ingame i.d is between 950 and 1200. That means we know for a FACT that you ve breached the ultimatum and intentionally attempted to mislead myself and The Imperium. You ll undoubtedly deny this publically on this forum... but given we know for a FACT the identity of your operative along with the sort of info you ve been recieving (mainly in that we ve been misleading him for the last several weeks with false info ), anything you say won't make the slightest difference to what and when The Imperium's military response will be for this treachery.

You have 6 people in that ID range. Tell us the name of the person? Do you want World Republic to mass that person and you will promise that you will not revenge him/her?

Okay i will address this comment a bit later

There are only a handful of ways you and World Republic will now avoid the impending consequences - lieing outright to us, trying to rally others against us and insulting us isn't one of them. I m giving you one last chance to come clean with what you have been doing, and to withdraw your operative from our ranks. The fact you lied to me outright on the ultimatum, and continue to outright lie to me even now is what assures Imperium hostility towards World Republic - since by its very definition, lieing, manpipulating, attempting to mislead and keeping an operative in another alliance is an act of war. This is your last chance for a clean slate, i won't offer World Republic it again.

It seems like you are trying to provoke a war. you are braking the conduct, which you have set yourself for your alliance.
I have never lied to you.

You told every1 that you have no spies in TC or any other alliance. The statement directly above this you point out states that you will mass the spy if we told you the name of the suspect. How can you claim to be truthful if you say there is no spy but you are willing to mass him/her?

But - to clarify once and for all just which of The Commonwealth and the World Republic are the real aggressors, perhaps you could fill the rest of the server in by answering the below questions honestly?

1.) How many players has The Commonwealth ever massed, assassinated, sabbed, invaded - or generally performed any form of hostile action (other than farming/ raiding) against since our time on Aderan Wars?
I don't keep track of what your alliance is doing. You are responsible for your actions. I am sure you have massed, assassinated, or sabbed a couple of people
I will answer this for you. The Commonwealth has massed, assassinated, or sabbed or sat on absolutely no1 to the best of my knowledge unless had hostility had been presented to them first. I am sure Ian can confirm this.

2.) How many players has World Republic ever massed, assassinated, sabbed, invaded - or generally performed any form of hostile action (other than farming/ raiding) against since your time on Aderan Wars?
Most likely more than your alliance, since our alliance has more members than all top 18 alliances combined (excluding WR of course.)
Okay dont even try to pull out the size card. Most of WR is inactive or semi active. So lets rephrase this question. How many active people WR have shown hostilities to other players. I personally was assassinated by a member of WR a few weeks ago before The Commonwealth became visable

3.) How many players has The Commonwealth ever contacted requesting them to sell information on their alliance, to betray their alliance - or to become Commonwealth operatives?
You have actively looked for spies in our alliance, which I find unhonest from you, since you were the one who wanted that there will be no spies.
No comment.
4.) How many players has World Republic ever contacted requesting them to sell information on their alliance, to betray their alliance - or to become World Republic operatives?
None since the time we have agreed to the ultimatum.
None since you agreed to the ultimatum. Well no duh. The fact is that you attempted to in the first place
5.) How many wars on the server has The Commonwealth had any direct or indirect participation/ influence in?
No idea, and I don't care. But what I know is that you like threatening people that you will go to war with them and you have sent messages to everyone in the World Republic to leave the alliance promising that there will be a war which will erradicate WR.
Possible 1 war is the right answer
6.) How many wars on the server has World Republic ever had any direct or indirect participation/ influence in?
More than your alliance, since the number of players of WR is as much as top 18 alliances!
Well from what i see nearly all of the wars on the server involved WR in someway.

For the rest of the server, whether friend, foe or neutral - i challenge ANY of you to answer the above 6 questions honestly and truthfully.

The Commonwealth is many things - but we are not what Kenzu makes us out to be - that of an aggressive, bullying, manipulative alliance. I challenge ANYONE with evidence to support Kenzu's claims and slanders against The Commonwealth to make it known on this thread.

If you are not aggressive, not bullying and not manipulative, why do you give us ultimatums and try to bully WR every time you can and why do you lie to us all the time?

You don't bully anyone?
If you don't bully anyone, why are you bullying World Republic and asking for 68.000.000.000 kuwal and threatening that you will go to war with us if we don't pay?

We are not bullying WR. We are defending ourselves and getting back at WR for the way they treat the players in general and how they treated us when we were still a secret alliance. We have been trying to do this peaceful but it seems every other word out of Kenzu's mouth is an attempt to instigate a war.

The only alliance currently who has anything to fear from The Commonwealth and The Imperium as a whole, is World Republic and anyone who aligns with them - and that is because they do harm to our reputation, our influence and our future prosperous perspectives on the server by spreading such slander, and by the webs of deceit which they wieve.

Those of the smaller alliances tempted to seek a mutual defence pact with World Republic - except those who already have a Defence pact (thus are deemed to consent and support World Republic conduct and foreign policy) - i give you FULL and a public garantee that you will not be harmed by The Imperium, now or in the future - without a justified reason (such as your conducting hostile actions such as sabbing, assassinations, assault or invasion missions against Imperium members - or threatening Imperium members, or over-farming/ raiding Imperium members etc...).

Of course you will not harm them. Afterall they are too small to be a threat to you. But if any of the alliances would grow strong enough to do you harm, you would be afraid of them, because you would know that they wouldn't forget your arrogance and what you have done in the past. You would take down each of those who would be strong enough to be a threat to you. One by one.

But you will not be successful, because World Republic will not let that happen!

Yeah yeah i dont really think WR is in much of a position to say what will and will not happen at this point

For those of you with a defence pact - or those considering it, what World Republic is doing is to seek to save itself. They know the crimes they ve committed against The Imperium, and they know the continued lies and hostility they wield against The Imperium even now - and they know that an Imperium military response is inevitable. Thus they seek a defence pact, with the terms that only those who *aren't* the aggressors should be aided. Thus when the day comes that The Imperium responds to World Republic's numerous acts of war and hostility against us, they will call for aid - and they will tell you they have done nothing to The Imperium, and are the victims.

World Republic has a military, powerful enough to defend itself and others. Nevertheless we are interested in friendly relations with all alliances, which want Order.

Your interested in friend relations with ALL alliances? Go check the war section and tell me how many of those WR was involved in

When that day comes - which unless Kenzu confesses to the crimes committed by World Republic - will come, you will be bound to enter this war - for who of you knows or can prove that World Republic is the aggressor? The answer is none of you - World Republic have kept you and most of its memberbase in the dark regarding their conduct - thus they will call for aid, and you will have a choice - join in a futile war against The Imperium due to having no proof of World Republic aggression/ provocation of the attack - or to refuse to enter, in which case you will be branded traitors and oath breakers by World Republic, and for ever more have their vengeance and hatred directed at you.

What hatred are you talking about? Is it common for your alliance members to hate your alliance?

Im not really sure this makes much sense. No members of TIE hate the empire or they wouldnt choose to be in the empire. I am sure you realized that no member of TC hated being in the alliance when you tried to gather spies server wide. We had a blast making up sarcastic comments for you. We had a few members offering prizes for the best response. Plenty of laughs at your expense

Believe me or ignore my advice - its your call - but to all small alliances with relations with World Republic, or considering relations with World Republic - if you seek and agree to a mutual defence pact with world republic, you will be placing yourselves in an impossible position where you will eithier have to fight beside World Republic, or not come ot their aid, and thus be accussed of treason and betrayal by them - and consequently suffer the results.

You make things sound very bad. Probably have a lot of experience with how your empire treats its members.

Again not making much sense. You have no idea what is happening in the empire. Seems since the joining our powers together and forming TIE both alliances are getting along great and our forum is taking to a whole new level of activity of jokes and games.

Act now and avoid the snares and webs of Kenzu and World Republic - act and renounce any agreements you may have, and if you have no agreements, act to keep it that way. The board is set, and the pieces are moving.... i don't think any of you want to become porns in a fight not of your making.

Finally... unless i m mistaken The Commonwealth is now rank 2 on the alliance rankings - having just replaced World Republic, knocking them down to rank 3

Congratulations kilo!
Doest it mean that your alliance is declaring war on World Republic?

Tell us the names of the spies in our alliance and tell us the usernames on the forum, which are spies.

Afterall you have made a promise to everyone in the forum that your alliance will not attack us, if we fulfil your demands.
We have fulfilled them and you have agreed not to attack us.

If your alliance goes to war with World Republic, you will brake your word and no one can ever trust you!

You didnt fulfill the demands... So pretty much Ian isnt restricted from hitting you. Only reason you have not been attacked is because ian wanted to give you as many chances as possible to come clean out of the kindness of his heart and love for WR

ian wrote:
Kenzu wrote:Most of the deceit and treachery comes from Commonwealth, but you know it, Ian.
You are spying on WR and hunting nonexistent spies in your own alliance with radical zeal.
You say you will reward spies who will cooperate with you, but actually you want to punish them for not being loyal to you.
Why aren't they loyal? Is it because you don't respect your members and think only about yourself?

Do you think such a chaotic way of governing an alliance will lead to success?

Please be specific about this "deciet and treachery" conducted by The Commonwealth Kenzu.... serously, you have a great chance to smash The Commonwealth'd credibility sideways - so throw everything you have at us which can harm us. If you can't back up that claim though... i suspect it ll show it for the lie which it is.

You want that we don't have any spies, but you are spying on us yourself.

Who ever said that TIE had spies in WR?

As for hunting nonexistence spies in our ranks. Did it ever occur to you that your asking some of our members to be spies for you - when at the time we only had 2 - 3 members who weren't from The Commonwealth from Dune (as in, members who i trust without question due to years of service), kinda limited the number of candidates who could be spies for you - and that your asking members to be spies, pretty much assurred i was alerted straight away to your attempts, and thus took actions to ensure that of those not from TC on dune, we were able to test their loyalty?

If you follow a small diversion army into a dark forest, not knowing the wherabouts of the forest, you are not an able leader.
You catch yourself in each possible trap which is set up. I don't think someone who led an alliance for so long would make such mistakes.

Dont even get started on saying Ian is a bad leader. He knows exactly where he is going with every word he says. Most people plan ahead slightly but Ian plans ahead days or weeks sometimes even months ahead.

There is no spy hunt i m afraid - the hunt never even began due to the precautions always taken in the Commonwealth - and we ve known who your agent is long bbefore i even issued that ultimatum. Your spy an ingame I.D between 900 > 1,200... i know who he is, you know who he is. Do you really still think i don't know who it is, and haven't known all this time? Do you really still think that i wouldn't take precautions to mislead and falsify information knowing you would recieve it? Do you really still think i don't know for a fact that your lieing to me - and thus will act to put an permament end to World Republic's ability to lie to me. That agent's prosperity lives only so long as he (unintentionally) serves The Commonwealth by enabling us to lead World Republic in completely the wrong direction. He ll suffer for his treason soon.... unless your prepared to publically admit your lies and deceit to The Commonwealth, compensate us for your hostility (i think a 68,000,000,000 compensation - 2billion per TC member - would be fair given you ve done nothing but lie to us, lie about us and spreading fear and resentment towards anyone marching under the banner of The Commonwealth - which inevitably impacts how players deal and interact with Commonwealth members, hurting them ingame and in terms of being part of the community), and withdraw him out of The Commonwealth to wherever you want to put him next.

Before you said the spy is between 950 and 1200, now you say he is between 900 and 1200. Does it mean the spy is between 900 and 950, or it means that you are loosing your certainness?

Ever heard of Provocateurs? It might be possible that someone employ a person in your alliance to serve as a provocateur, who shall make you believe that WR has spies in your alliance, when in fact we don't. Someone might benefit a lot from a war between Commonwealth and World Republic.

With a leader like you, Ian, The Comonwealth needs no spies. You are very predictable. Your intension to destroy WR is long known and no secret to us.

Yes i am sure that Ian extenteding his range to include 1 more person proves his uncertainty. Again a pointless statement made by Kenzu.

As for The Commonwealth surviving - we survived EVERYTHING our enemies threw at us on Dune, and we ve lasted for over 3 years now. I can assure you the ENTIRE memberbase of The Commonwealth is loyal (with the exception of your agent) and any way of governing i may have... is by its very definition a successfull way since we ve never yet failed to become a major/ superpower on any game we ve played, coupled with lasting a very very long time.

Tread very carefully Kenzu, you ve awoken a sleeping dragon - one which won't hesitate to turn you into a spicy char grilled rib (though ribs might well have more intelligeance when it comes to foreign policy than WR combined).

Nice Winston Churchill quote.
Let me rephrase to the original:
"Beware the sleeping dragon. For when she awakes the Earth will shake."
(China)

I think asking us to pay 68.000.000.000 kuwal and threatening that you will go to war if we dont pay is a proof enough that Ian/kilo and his alliance are agressive bullies.

Afterall this is not the first time you try to bully and threaten.

by ian Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:02 pm

LOL - fun convo with Kenzu... he wants to make it public, so happy reading peeps Smile

ian says (22:55):
the spy you have in the commonwealth is vance - we knew when you messaged several other company members at the time that you would have likely contacted the commonwealth - thus those who did not report in your contacting them immediately were added to our suspicion list, coupled with his being one of 3 players not from the commonwealth on other games
so, you have a choice now
ian says (22:56):
you can pay compensation for attempting to mislead us and slandering us - or you can enjoy the peace which exists still, knowing sooner or later, when you least expect it - it will end when the commonwealth seeks vengeance for the breach of ultimatums
kenzu says (22:57):
hi
ian says (22:58):
hello
i don't like being played for a fool to be honest - because we ve been able to mislead vance for a long time, and gathered more than enough info on him being your agent to know he is your agent
ian says (22:59):
he has no idea we know... but he ll find out soon enough Very Happy

kenzu says (22:59):
wait, talking to mz wife
ian says (22:59):
ok
kenzu says (23:03):
back
let me read what you wrote first
kenzu says (23:04):
the spy you have in the commonwealth is vance - we knew when you messaged several other company members at the time that you would have likely contacted the commonwealth - thus
what do you mean by this?
what day are we talking about?
kenzu says (23:05):
oh I see
ian says (23:05):
lol
kenzu says (23:05):
if you have only 3 players who didnt play dune, you better get rid of them
and then you can (maybe) have only loyal people in your alliance
kenzu says (23:06):
unless some are fed up with you
ian says (23:06):
lol, i assure you i have no intention of kicking any players who are loyal to TC out on suspicion they may not be loyal
we merely were able to work out who your spy is
and have since had enough evidence
to prove it
ian says (23:07):
do you still insist on saying you have no spy in the commonwealth?
kenzu says (23:07):
if you think you have spies, dont give them info which you dont want them to know
or feed them false info
i dont care what techniques you use to find spies
vance isnt our spy
kenzu says (23:08):
as I said before, we dont have spies in your alliance
oh btw
seems I was right that you are making a witchhunt
ian says (23:08):
LOL
you really don't have a clue with what your dealing with do you?
ian says (23:09):
oh well, i m sad you think that way, and rather than telling the truth just once - you prefer to keep your spy in the commonwealth for the benefits of the "information" it gives you
at the expense of yourself and the rest of the alliance
kenzu says (23:09):
?
ian says (23:09):
i ve asked you time and time to withdraw your spy - and time and time again you refuse
so be it
ian says (23:10):
just don't complain when the full picture is finally revealed on the AW forum
kenzu says (23:10):
i told you I dont have a spy
ian says (23:10):
your a convincing liar Smile

kenzu says (23:10):
you want to go to war over something which doesnt exist?
I am no liar, but you are
ian says (23:10):
lol, oh i m not going to war over having a spy in our ranks
kenzu says (23:11):
one can expect anything from you
ian says (23:11):
i m going to war over the fact you insist on misleading us time and time again and have numerous times outright lied to us - and lieing about us
kenzu says (23:11):
seems you will remain restless as long as WR exists
ian says (23:11):
i will remain restless as long as WR insists on misleading other alliances and in particular the commonwealth
kenzu says (23:12):
even if you have spies in your alliance, why do you think it is WR spy and why do you think I know about it?
ian says (23:13):
because we happen to be allies with the company
and because we happen to have long kept track of your operations against other alliances before we became visible
i know about your double dealings between rflash and reaper
ian says (23:14):
i know how you throw support from side to side as and when it suits yoyu
you may not have known about me when i first started on AW - and may not have realised what TC would become... to you we were but a shadow, a name
but all through that time i took my time to get to know those who can be trusted, and those who present a potential threat to the commonwealth
kenzu says (23:15):
you know that paranoia makes people see things which dont exist?
I have sent messages to everyone in your alliance and you already get all crazy about it
ian says (23:15):
very true - but when you have someone close to the person doing all these acts
kenzu says (23:15):
just proves how insecure you feel
ian says (23:15):
it makes things a lot easier to see Smile

i told you who was the commonwealth's contact in world republic
kenzu says (23:15):
i know about your double dealings between rflash and reaper
=> you mean what?
ian says (23:16):
how else do i know about your switching sides from first beign allies of the company
to being enemies?
seriously... think about who you share such information with
kenzu says (23:16):
first I perceived The Company as a threat, because they were so strong
ian says (23:16):
then think about how many of those people have been in the picture dating back from when some of your operations have been conducted
kenzu says (23:16):
but then I realised that the real threat is you, who is too agressive
kenzu says (23:17):
at least I can trust the company and know that they are a proper alliance
ian says (23:18):
oh really?
how exaclty is the commonwealth not a "proper alliance"?
did we or didn't we completely catch up and overtake world republic's army size and economic strength
have we not moved from nothing to now displacing world republic as being rank 2?
kenzu says (23:18):
you always want to bully everyone who you think could be a threat
ian says (23:19):
and did we, or didn't we join AW 4months after world republic
lol, bully?
kenzu says (23:19):
we could have massed you when you were small, but it wouldn't be good for the game
ian says (23:19):
the commonwealth hasn't targetted a single player
oh.. yes i know that
you ve got plenty of practise when it comes to killing small players
and now, you can't mass us because we are far stronger and larger than you
anything you do will be a laugh Very Happy

kenzu says (23:19):
your players have not been bullied by bigger players
ours have
ian says (23:19):
LOL
ian says (23:20):
you mean like some of WR's players who saw it fit to assassinate and threaten my members
kenzu says (23:20):
your strike and defense and assasin power and covert
all weaker than mine
ian says (23:20):
or yourself - do you remember those lovely messages you sent to a player called magnus
telling him not to farm WR's inactive players
or he ll get massed?
LOL
your a fool
try using your strike against me why don't you
kenzu says (23:20):
you're more of a fool
ian says (23:20):
or why don't you use your lovely covert or assassination power?
kenzu says (23:21):
Does it mean that you agree that I will mass you?
ian says (23:21):
don't mistake the commonwealth for being weak
kenzu says (23:21):
and you will not call your alliance members for help?
ian says (23:21):
for it will be your own downfall
loll, like hell
i m hoping you mass me Very Happy

kenzu says (23:21):
Only me and you?
ian says (23:21):
then we can launch the "nuke" button against you Smile

and world republic
and once and for all end this little debate
kenzu says (23:22):
Let me ask you again
Do you want me to mass you, and you will not call your allies for help?
Only me against you?
1 vs 1
no alliance help
ian says (23:22):
lol, i have no intention of going 1 vs. 1 with you - you ve never honoured your members being able to go 1 vs. 1 with anyone else
why now?
kenzu says (23:22):
because before thebigger one was 5 times bigger than the smaller one
kenzu says (23:23):
but me and you have similiar sizes
ian says (23:23):
you have 4months head start over me
much more a head start
kenzu says (23:23):
how about your members will send you resources and turns?
ian says (23:23):
than ever the person you massed had over your WR member
kenzu says (23:23):
you can catch up
ian says (23:23):
lol, like hell
i don't think you understand
kenzu says (23:23):
in march, people farmed for less than 1 million per hit
ian says (23:23):
world republic untill it comes clean is an enemy of the commonwealth
ian says (23:24):
its only our desire for peace
which has restrained our action against WR
kenzu says (23:24):
massing costet like 100 million
now massing would cost 10 billion
ian says (23:24):
we don't want your head kenzu
we want eithier WR's death, or it to simply come clean
kenzu says (23:24):
II think you want
come clean?
ian says (23:25):
lol#
kenzu says (23:25):
why do you want to know my spies names, if you dont tell me your spies names?
ian says (23:25):
excellent, now we are making progress
kenzu says (23:25):
what are the names of your spies?
ian says (23:25):
you ve just admitted you have spies Very Happy

which unless i m mistaken
kenzu says (23:25):
I havent
ian says (23:25):
is in breach of the ultimatum Smile

congratulations Very Happy

kenzu says (23:25):
I said: why do you want to know my spies names, if you dont tell me your spies names?
ian says (23:25):
i told you though - our *spy* *was* lord pegasus
ian says (23:26):
Smile

kenzu says (23:26):
no
lord pegasus wasnt a spy
ian says (23:26):
ok, well your just being paronoid if you think we have any others
kenzu says (23:26):
you are lieing
tell me the names of your spies
ian says (23:26):
LOL
Very Happy

ok... i admit
we have no spies Sad

kenzu says (23:26):
how could you see into our forums, if you dont have spies?
ian says (23:27):
lol, why don't you ask your brother what happened to the dynasty forum once upon a time? Razz

that ll probably answer how we can see your forum Smile

we ve never had spies
nor have any spies
kenzu says (23:27):
but how could you access pages which are only allowed for members of our alliance
ian says (23:28):
magic
kenzu says (23:28):
are you still able to access our pages?
ian says (23:28):
lol, yeah whenever we want Smile

your forum's like a supermarket
ian says (23:29):
yuo just wander in and out Smile

can't have you planning on siding with the others against the company without us knowing now can we? Smile

particuarly enjoyed that topic btw
the one asking what you should do Razz

kenzu says (23:29):
If you tell me what is written in the top thread in general discussion, I will tell you all the names of all the spies in the Commonwealth

You have just sent a nudge.

ian says (23:30):
oops my bad
lol
kenzu says (23:30):
nervous?
ian says (23:30):
i have no intention of signing onto your forum
so you can check the access times
and cross reference it with now
Smile

kenzu says (23:30):
ok
you can sign in at any other time
ian says (23:30):
but, like i said
kenzu says (23:30):
once you do, you will get all names
ian says (23:30):
we don't have any spies in world republic
ian says (23:31):
access to forum is one thing
spies is another
you ve only ever asked for spies Smile

kenzu says (23:31):
can you also see into High Command?
ian says (23:31):
lol, no idea
kenzu says (23:31):
spying on our forum imples you have spies, even if that spy might be you with a multi account
ian says (23:32):
or maybe you just need to update your permissions Razz

don't you just hate it when poor adminship means your enemies accidentally get put into a random politically orientated user-group - but find they have access to the aderan war's users area? Very Happy

kenzu says (23:33):
no
because I am the admin
ian says (23:33):
lol, go check your handiwork then Smile

ian says (23:35):
or.. alternatively, i could just be guessing what you have on your forum
and your responses just confirm that you ve actually got it on your forum Very Happy

its fun to accusse others of paranoia.... but when you start worrying that your enemies have access to your forum, its time to question whether you ve also caught it Very Happy

kenzu says (23:36):
ho ho ho
thats only the register page
that not our forum
ian says (23:37):
errr... ok
well, i ll leave you to ponder whether i ve got access or not
kenzu says (23:37):
i dont worry about, i was just wondering that you do it yourself but dont want us to do it
ian says (23:37):
and then if i ve got access - who out of your 100+ members is a commonwealth operative
kenzu says (23:37):
not so many people have been given access to the forum
ian says (23:37):
but, unless i m mistaken - i ve told you time ansd time
again
we do not now have access to your forum
ian says (23:38):
and may never have had
kenzu says (23:38):
and only a fraction got access to secret stuff
ian says (23:38):
honestly... what evidence
kenzu says (23:38):
you said yourself that you looked in the forum
ian says (23:38):
we have access?
LOL
or maybe
just maybe
i was utilising your own tactics against you Razz

witch hunt and all that jazz
paranoia
kenzu says (23:38):
let me find it
ian says (23:39):
impacting communication by not letting hardly anyone use your forum etc...
all good effects Smile

kenzu says (23:39):
no need for everyone to know everything
kenzu says (23:40):
sad that you cannot be sure that your sensitive information cannot leak out
because you dont even know if you have spies or not
ian says (23:40):
LOL
rofl
ian says (23:41):
*sighs*
you really are blind and foolish Smile

kenzu says (23:41):
and I have always said we dont have spies
and still you are scared
ian says (23:41):
damn, its a shame i have to wait Sad

don't worry - tommorrow i ll put you out of your misery, and reveal the true extent of the commonwealth's covert reach
and when that happens - it will expose you and world republic
ian says (23:42):
for the lies and misinformation you ve been telling all of AW
kenzu says (23:42):
you better get some evidence
I wonder what you will create
ian says (23:42):
lol, don't worry you ve given me plenty Smile

lol, well - i won't be creating anything
though i m sure you ll be happy to say its created
kenzu says (23:42):
how about simply ask one of your members to say he is our spy?
ian says (23:42):
LOL
actually
kenzu says (23:42):
you think it would be good enough evidence?
ian says (23:42):
yes of course Smile

kenzu says (23:43):
i dont think so
we could get a member within day, who would agree that he is spy of the Commonwealth
ian says (23:43):
go for it Smile

we ll expect you to mass him though
and sit on him all eternity - as you would
for the treason he's committed
ian says (23:44):
oh well
i ve asked you time and time again to be honest about vance being your spy
kenzu says (23:44):
Except you ve bullied smaller players, and pretty frequently if your forum is anything to go by (i did enjoy looking around it, and especially enjoyed your battle group things where WR members volunteer for, with the frequent updates of the "brave actions" fought against enemies of the world republic)
ian says (23:45):
you ve breached the ultimatum frequently
well, you never satisfied the ultimatum since you were never honest about vance being your spy
that alone gives me reason to declare war... and yet i haven't
instead i ve opted to give you something like 4 - 5 more chances to be honest
ian says (23:46):
i even pointed out that had you revealed vance to be your spy at the time of the ultimatum
that would in essence completely protect you - since you d have satisfied the ultimatum - and any attack by the commonwealth then
would have looked pretty damn screwed up
but instead.. you opted to think we were fools
that we wouldn't learn of vance's treason
that we didn't already know of vance's treason
ian says (23:47):
and now - even up to this very convo you insist you have no spies
i have no interest in whether you have spies in the commonwealth anymore to be honest - and never have been interested
asking you whether you had spies was just a form of testing your good will
kenzu says (23:47):
I havent
ian says (23:47):
whether you can be trusted to be honest and see-through
kenzu says (23:47):
you all agreed to the ultimatum as I have done most things
ian says (23:48):
whether you can be trusted to be open with us, thus present no threat
kenzu says (23:48):
vance is not my spy
ian says (23:48):
no - i ve made it damn clear to you i don't accept your answer of having no spies
ansd that the ultimatum is not met
eithier way, its expired
you ve also in this convo hinted several times you have spies Very Happy

kenzu says (23:48):
not not
because ultimatum has been done
ian says (23:48):
kenzu says (23:29):
If you tell me what is written in the top thread in general discussion, I will tell you all the names of all the spies in the Commonwealth

kenzu says (23:49):
I have never hinted I had spies
in fact there are none
ian says (23:49):
ok kenzu... the ultimatum's been agreed upon in your eyes only
just a shame i ve posted on the topic several times
kenzu says (23:49):
kenzu says (23:29):
If you tell me what is written in the top thread in general discussion, I will tell you all the names of all the spies in the Commonwealth
=> my answer would be:
the names of the spies are: NONE
ian says (23:49):
saying its not met etc...
lol, of course Smile

ian says (23:50):
you keep telling yourself that
keep telling your members that
but honestly
i have no idea why you keep telling me that when you know for a fact i know your lieing to me, and when you know lieing to me is only going to result in war sooner or later breaking out between the imperium and world republic
ian says (23:51):
how many times have i offerred you a chance to simply admit you ve got spies in the commonwealth - hell i even asked you to simply withdraw him
instead you ve elected not to - and persisted in trying to mislead me and outright lieing to me
so be it
your not fooling anyone - and you sure as hell aren't fooling me Smile

ian says (23:53):
oh well
i m off now - this convo is the last diplomatic communication world republic will recieve from the commonwealth's partof the imperium
we are hereby terminating diplomatic links
good night
kenzu says (23:53):
what?
you declare war?
ian says (23:54):
lol, err... did i say that
merely that this is the last you ll hear from the commonwealth - we are terminating diplomatic links
don't expect to get a response from any communication made to us on any matters
kenzu says (23:54):
can I make this convo public
?
ian says (23:54):
swhether it be over-farming of your members
or any other issues
ian says (23:55):
lol, no
kenzu says (23:55):
Can war not be evaded?
Is there a possibility that there will be no war?
I would like to make sure there will be no war at all costs
except paying reparations
since nothing happened
ian says (23:57):
i m afraid i stand by what i said - we ve just terminated diplomatic links, any diplomatic envoys world republic have with the commonwealth will need to go through other channels in the imperium
kenzu says (23:57):
I will make this conversation public
so that everyone will see that you are a liar
kenzu says (23:58):
you will probably tell you members that I said there is a spy, but I told you countless times there is none
ian says (23:58):
yes indeed you have
no doubt
and i fully agree with the fact you ve told me you have no spies in the commonwealth
ian says (23:59):
and unless i m mistaken
haven;'t said any differently?
and your telling me you have no spy
is precisely why
we are terminating diplomatic links with you and world republic
in telling us you have no spy - you are outright lieing to us
kenzu says (23:59):
please quote the sentence where I said there is a spy
ian says (00:00):
what is the point in diplomatic links if those links serve no purpose other disinformation?
kenzu says (00:00):
to prevent war
seems you at all cost want to bring your members to the doom
ian says (00:00):
lol, thats your interpretation
ian says (00:01):
but tell me where i said war was going to happen upon my terminating links with world republic?
did not the USA and russia terminate links with one another during the cold war?
but.. i stand by what i said
ian says (00:02):
The Commonwealth hereby terminates diplomatic links with world republic due to deciet, lies and attempts at misleading us - any diplomatic requests or issues will not be responded to untill such a time as The Commonwealth see's it fit to resume diplomatic links with world republic
kenzu says (00:02):
usa terminated links furst
first
kenzu says (00:03):
You are not good at diplomacy
Seems like you want a war, no matter what
ian says (00:04):
are you saying your going to declare war upon the commonwealth because we ve terminated diplomatic links with world republic?
kenzu says (00:04):
I am not saying anything
WR is a peaceful alliance
kenzu says (00:05):
we don't declare war because of some unimportant things
but if you declare war on World Republic, we will fight you!
ian says (00:05):
well, there's a shocker Razz

kenzu says (00:06):
No matter if The Company joins or not.
You will be the agressor and you will be the one we will fight!
ian says (00:06):
excellent... i ll pass the good news onto the company for you Smile

kenzu says (00:06):
Therefore I advise you not to go to war with us.
ian says (00:06):
okey dokey - advise noted Smile

ian says (00:08):
well, thanks for the fun convo... it did make me chuckle
ian says (00:09):
since you wanted it made public, as the commonwealth's last official diplomatic act before we terminate diplomatic relations with world republic
i ve abided by your request, and made ALL of it publically available
good night
kenzu says (00:09):
as you wish
good night
ian says (00:10):
just remember, diplomatic termination doesn't necessary equate to war... though it could well be the first stage of war
i ll leave you to ponder that for a while Smile

kenzu says (00:10):
dont worry, we will not be the agressor
if you dont attack, we wont attack either
ian says (00:11):
There will be plenty more official posts on the AW forum, so we ll have limited diplomatic links via that.. you could call the aderan wars forum the equivilant of the united nations floor
kenzu says (00:11):
I have to go
my wife is waiting
ian says (00:11):
ok then
night
kenzu says (00:11):
whatever
good night
we dont talk much on MSN anyway

by slambot#4 Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:23 am

why does it seem that every other week, I go on to the forums and see ian threatening to collapse WR? I'm failing to see the aggressive WR side, and more seeing that One member of the Commonwealth seems bent on destruction and causing global war in the game. Accusing one alliance of spying, followed by stating you've seen the others forums... It would seem hypocritical for most, but since its ian, he must be fine and legit

by Vesper Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:24 am

We let Ian speak on behalf of us as he is our leader. He represents his alliance. So when he speaks his word carries multiple peoples opinions and thoughts as he gets our thoughts before posting more of the time

by Space2050 Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:29 am

Kenzu, I think the problem here, is that your forum security isn't secure enough. Guests can see a bit too much before and after registering. And according to Kilo, you need to be sure that your other user groups don't have unnecessary access to World Republic-Aderan Wars info. Btw, I created an account on your forums to make a quick check to see what was available for reference for this post. (Found nothing, but the account I created is named creatively - 'Reference - DeleteAccount')

If you keep Aderan Wars sections open to the public, other than but possibly including your "Join Aderan Wars Group" topic, make sure to moderate the info posted by your own members so that info doesn't leek out to guests, and pre-accepted new members.

P.S.
Delete member: "Reference - DeleteAccount"
If you do an IP check, all other matches should be guests, and match today and most likely only one other day if any.

edit: Information too easily accessed by guests, or non-usergroup members, on a forum, is a situation more of poor planning by the site admin then a situation of the player who notices the info being a spy. Also, if your forum gets too many bots, consider updating the forums and adding more registering restrictions and safeties. ex: [ag1e3] Input Code: ____

by Jiro Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:58 am

Most be one of Ian's longest posts ever and Kenzu posted it as well. Hope it isn't contageous. Sigh.
Is it even relevant whether there is a spy, if there is one? Go kcik him or whatever, or exchange him with another spy at point Charlie.
Or start a war, since that is what you want to do. There is no UN on Aderan and you don't have to pretend there is any legitimate cause.
As for vance, he could be a spy as you say, he could be a loyal member of TC and when asked tell he's a spy. He could even be a spy for someone else. There is no way for us to know, so give it a rest already.
Ian, you've already told us that the alleged crimes of Kenzu's are difficult to prove. This conversation proves nothing. So either prove the allegations or swallow them. Repeating them does not make them proven.
Let me know what you think about starting a UN though.

(Already at page 2, even though this is the 4th post. The first post was long.)

by Sandwalker Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:14 am

It's not about having a spy, it's about admitting it.

by Vesper Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:17 am

Kenzu requested that the convo was made public. Doesnt really make a difference for Ian in my opinion. Though Kenzu does say that if Ian tells him the name of the first title on forums that he will admit who the spy he has in our alliance.

by Jiro Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:14 am

But what is the point, really? It reminds me of the issue between Space2050 and 3cats4me. That was much ado about nothing. The problem/noise ratio is very low in my opinion.
The conversation shows mainly two people trying to get the best of each other in a chat session, rather than any attempt at diplomacy.
It ends with the end of diplomatic ties. Sad, really. Maybe both TIE and OE should appoint a minister of foreign affairs or ambassadors to the other empire, since it seems, from the communication at hand, that the spokesmen involved are too much part of the problem to come to a solution.
A lot of the negative sentiments from Ian seem to be targeted at Kenzu directly. That does not help.
Does anyone see a solution to this conflict, other than one of the parties caving in or a war?

by ian Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:19 pm

Jiro wrote:But what is the point, really? It reminds me of the issue between Space2050 and 3cats4me. That was much ado about nothing. The problem/noise ratio is very low in my opinion.
The conversation shows mainly two people trying to get the best of each other in a chat session, rather than any attempt at diplomacy.
It ends with the end of diplomatic ties. Sad, really. Maybe both TIE and OE should appoint a minister of foreign affairs or ambassadors to the other empire, since it seems, from the communication at hand, that the spokesmen involved are too much part of the problem to come to a solution.
A lot of the negative sentiments from Ian seem to be targeted at Kenzu directly. That does not help.
Does anyone see a solution to this conflict, other than one of the parties caving in or a war?

Ok mate, i m going to explain this once, and once only.

The Imperium doesn't give 2 hoots about the actual fact Kenzu has a spy in The Commonwealth's ranks - we ve known about the spy all along, and simply made use of it to our own advantage (false info). What we do care about however - is that part of the term of the ultimatum we issued was that World Republic withdraw or reveal all spies it has in our ranks. It was a fundamental point of the ultimatum.

Since that ultimatum, we ve asked Kenzu time and time again to be honest with us, and to withdraw the spy. We ve given him chance after chance, and his only response has been to literally lie through his teeth. The spy itself is irrelevant - its the approach World Republic have taken with regard to the spy, and what it shows about them - which is why the spy issue is a major one. By continiously lieing to The Imperium, World Republic are demonstrating several fundamental traits in their foreign policy, these are:

1.) Intention to mislead and decieve.
2.) An outright intention to lie not just once - but repeatedly
3.) An willingness to break an diplomatic agreement (in this case the ultimatum), and lie about breaching it.

These are general traits which can be applied to pretty much every dealing - thus World Republic's willingness to so often utilise such traits is a clear example of exactly why World Republic can not be trusted in any diplomatic contact at all - hence the breaking of diplomatic relations by The Commonwealth, and our giving serious consideration of going to war for the deceit/ lieing to us.

Finally - this individual situation regarding the spy, along with the attempts to recruit a spy - also encompases several other traits which are of significant concern:

1.) The wish to infiltrate another alliance - compromising that alliance's security and sovereignty.
2.) The intention to sow disunity and internal strife by attempting to recruit spies in other alliances (Note: This is the explanation given by Kenzu to Reaper when asked about why he contacted The Company's members asking them to be spies).

And lastly - the current situation of World Republic recruiting more and more alliances to its banner, via dishonest means - by playing The Commonwealth of as the aggressor, and now comparing us to nasty Germany, illustrates several more concerning traits:

1.) The willingness to outright slander and insult a alliance who has actually not *yet* done a single aggressive move against a single player on the game - and one who's only dealings with World Republic have been to intervene for the sake of smaller players on the game when World Republic smashes them up.
2.) The willingness to outright lie and keep its allies in the dark about its dealings and conduct demonstrates a concerning inclination by World Republic to actually using those allies for its own end - potentially even treachery.
3.) The willingness to slander another alliance - knowing the consequences of such slander will actually directly harm that alliance's prosperous prospects in the future, impacting all its memberbase in a negative sense
4.) The willingness to continue all of the above (despite being given opportunity after opportunity to come clean, and cease this situation once and for all in a peaceful means) knowing full well it is going to result in war - a war in which World Republic and its allies will be hopelessly outgunned - shows a massively concerning trait for Kenzu and WR's leadership to place their pride, and their personal ambitions - before their members.

In addittion to these - there are a number of known World Republic past actions which should be taken into consideration along with the above, when deciding on any dealings with World Republic:

1.) The massing of at least 3 - 4 small tiny players without trying diplomacy at all - and in several of these cases, the aggressor was a World Republic member who upon the victim striking back, World Republic as a alliance intervened against. This demonstrates a frankly awful bullying attitude and willingness to bully other players by World Republic - and is a clear sign of a hostile and aggressive foreign policy.

2.) The fact Kenzu and World Republic immediately believed The Company to be a threat due to its strength and size - a point Kenzu actually raised in the above conversation in response to my bringing up his planning to side with The Others - shows a very very awful and treacherous foreign policy, when you consider that before Geto-dacii (the main challenger to The Company) was disbanded, The Company and World Republic worked very closely together and were on very good friendly terms - due to countering Geto-dacii. Thus with the disbandment of Geto-dacii, within weeks World Republic was actively considering siding with The Others (many of whom came from Geto-dacii) simply because it percieved its former-friends to be a threat, one which must be eliminated - due to its size and strength.

In doing this - World Republic demonstrated that past dealings and friendships mean nothing to it, and it demonstrated a distinctely hostile policy that it should adapt such a policy/ objective of wishing the destruction/ reduction of The Company for no reason other than their size and strength. This also highlights considerable elements of paronoia, along with a latant desire by World Republic to neutralise any threats - whether in existence or up and coming - to its power base.

3.) The strong suspicion that World Republic had dealings with Geto-dacii while at the same time backing The Company during their many skirmishes, supports the view World Republic's foreign policy is all about itself, exploiting arguments and disagreements between other alliances for its own ends at the cost of those alliances. This demonstrates a distinctly pro-manipulation and decietful foreign policy.

4.) The mass messaging of practically all the main alliances requesting they be spies - which as Kenzu (ill advisedly) revealed to Reaper, his main objective was not the recruitment of a spy (arguably something designed as a latent defence mechanism i.e. a military asset which would only become active should the alliance it is in become hostile/ a threat to world republic and thus alert WR of its intentions) - but instead the active spread of disuinity, suspicion, paranoia and inevitably - with the objective of starting a witch hunt in the alliances which would badly damage cohesion and morale among the alliance, and structurally damage the alliance as potentially players members leave it.

Such conduct wasn't defensive in nature - it was downright hostile with a very tangible objective to be achieved via launching an covert offensive. World Republic (given if it was successfull, it would have resulted in members leaving the alliance - i.e. if a member with 1million army size leaves the alliance, that alliance has basically just lost 1million army size - no different to loosing 1million army size to a conventional massing) - wasn't just conducting covert operations - it had declared a war against those alliances by such conduct, given the results of its objectives being successfull would be no less devestating than a full-scale conventional massin.

5.) World Republic's assassination, threats and general hostility to commonwealth members when they were "growing up" on the server - which to World Republic given The Commonwealth was a secret alliance, these players would just be small players all alone - thus easy pickings to threat/ carry out hostile actions such as assassinations. Such conduct on the part of World Republic - including by Kenzu with his pm's threatening members with destruction if they farm inactive players, since those inactive players are reserved as farms for World Republic players - demonstrates yet again a very hostile, very aggressive and very bullying attitude to players outside World Republic.

As such - given all the above considerations when looking at the bigger picture, The Commonwealth last night, decided that after the most recent diplomatic discussion with Kenzu was met with the same result - a deliberate attempt by Kenzu to mislead, decieve and lie to us concerning his spy - that it was finally time, having tried numerous times in the past to resolve the issue of World Republic compromising our security and sovereign rights via the placement of its spy in our ranks, that diplomatic links served no purpose other than the attempt by World Republic to utilise them to spread further their deciet and lies.

Consequently, having tried many times in the past, and presented World Republic with many chances to come clean and be honest with us, World Republic yet again lied to us - thus we dissolved Diplomatic links.

The reason The Commonwealth has tried to so hard to get World Republic to admit the presence and existence of the spy in our ranks - is that based upon World Republic's past and present conduct, we have no choice but to conclude that World Republic is an aggressive alliance with strong hostility towards all other alliances which pose a challenge to itself, and this coupled with its attempts to build a counter-bloc to The Imperium, coupled with the outright lies and dishonesty concerning the present dealings and World Republic's willingness to slander and harm The Commonwealth - means that The Commonwealth and Imperium has no choice at all but to deem World Republic as a very real and very significant hostile threat which WILL attempt to harm/ destroy us at first opportunity - and indeed has already attempted to harm us on more than one occassion.

Such a conclusion therefore will leave The Imperium with no choice but to launch a preemptive strike at some point in the future against World
Republic before World Republic have a chance to cause more severe damage. More importantly however - World Republic breached the ultimatum, which we are committed and honour bound to enforce - this thus leaves us no choice in the matter eithier.

As such - our concentration on the spy was for 2 very simple reasons - Had World Republic been honest about the spy it would have:

1.) Satisified the ultimatum - meaning The Imperium would no longer be honour bound and committed to enforce the ultimatum.
2.) It would have been a very real, and very tangible piece of evidence that World Republic is prepared to change its foreign policy and become a more open and trustworthy alliance, thus providing a counter point to past World Republic actions and conduct - giving us the opportunity to use this first "good" step by World Republic as the foundation upon which to (hopefully) build better diplomatic relations.

Instead - the spy issue hasn't served to demonstrate that World Republic has changed and is no longer as much of a threat - its served to demonstrate in a very public and very clear way that World Republic is more aggressive, decietful and manipulative than ever before.

As such - The Commonwealth has dissolved diplomatic links with World Republic.

Now... i hope that better explains the situation?

by Vesper Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:52 pm

im sorry but i am a bit to tired to read that entire post right now ian Sad

by slambot#4 Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:10 pm

I wasn't the only one?

by Kenzu Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:57 pm

Space2050 wrote:Kenzu, I think the problem here, is that your forum security isn't secure enough. Guests can see a bit too much before and after registering. And according to Kilo, you need to be sure that your other user groups don't have unnecessary access to World Republic-Aderan Wars info. Btw, I created an account on your forums to make a quick check to see what was available for reference for this post. (Found nothing, but the account I created is named creatively - 'Reference - DeleteAccount')

If you keep Aderan Wars sections open to the public, other than but possibly including your "Join Aderan Wars Group" topic, make sure to moderate the info posted by your own members so that info doesn't leek out to guests, and pre-accepted new members.

P.S.
Delete member: "Reference - DeleteAccount"
If you do an IP check, all other matches should be guests, and match today and most likely only one other day if any.

edit: Information too easily accessed by guests, or non-usergroup members, on a forum, is a situation more of poor planning by the site admin then a situation of the player who notices the info being a spy. Also, if your forum gets too many bots, consider updating the forums and adding more registering restrictions and safeties. ex: [ag1e3] Input Code: ____

So what information did you accept as a guest?

If you scroll down to Aderan Wars section, you should be able to see only "Join Aderan Usergroup"
if you are a member, you will see a little bit more.

What can you see?

by Space2050 Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:28 am

Not much, that's why I decided that someone else with additional info would have to add to my info. Either way, there seemed to be more info on the site last night when I was trying to make references.

by Kenzu Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:47 am

Space2050 wrote:Not much, that's why I decided that someone else with additional info would have to add to my info. Either way, there seemed to be more info on the site last night when I was trying to make references.

There was no change for many months.

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