TM vs Muj

seaborgium wrote:he hates the war aspect. it cost too much, no "real" action.
this is a VERY large issue I know people leave for.

If you are destroying massive amounts of resources you must pay massive amounts of resources too,
because if you can mass huge accounts without losing much, then the game sucks.

It's sad to see him leave, even though I knew he was packing up.

Kenzu wrote:

seaborgium wrote:he hates the war aspect. it cost too much, no "real" action.
this is a VERY large issue I know people leave for.

If you are destroying massive amounts of resources you must pay massive amounts of resources too,
because if you can mass huge accounts without losing much, then the game sucks.

It's sad to see him leave, even though I knew he was packing up.

Hmmm...true, you have to loose resources compared to the amount the defender is loosing.

But the fault is still there. The attacker looses resources, and after that what? you cannot farm/sit on that player; if you attack every turn you loose again due to the losses cost algorithm...

So the problem that arrises is: what`s the purpose in massing/sabbing/assasinating someone, if you have no gain afterwards, and you only loose resources in the process? That`s the real problem and the reason this game is going nowhere.

In a war I massed someone, I started off with a strike of 2,037,918,960 , and the persons defense was 1,925,103,228, by the end of my massing the person, I my strike was 25,318,260 and the persons defense was 1,385,092 ,
So it's true, It's not worth having any wars, Might as well just attack yourself and enjoy it, lol Not like any real wars in the world that I know of.

adrian wrote:

Kenzu wrote:

seaborgium wrote:he hates the war aspect. it cost too much, no "real" action.
this is a VERY large issue I know people leave for.

If you are destroying massive amounts of resources you must pay massive amounts of resources too,
because if you can mass huge accounts without losing much, then the game sucks.

It's sad to see him leave, even though I knew he was packing up.

Hmmm...true, you have to loose resources compared to the amount the defender is loosing.

But the fault is still there. The attacker looses resources, and after that what? you cannot farm/sit on that player; if you attack every turn you loose again due to the losses cost algorithm...

So the problem that arrises is: what`s the purpose in massing/sabbing/assasinating someone, if you have no gain afterwards, and you only loose resources in the process? That`s the real problem and the reason this game is going nowhere.

Now this is an interesting point, one that has not risen in times past. In the "other" games you can mass down to 0 and then effectively "sit" on someone and turn farm them profitably, which for the most part you can not do here.

Now I happen to disagree with you saying there is "no" gain. In general I do agree, but there is more to it. There are "lost" members, there are those who never rebuild, and there are those who rebuild so slowly that you can profitably farm them for a rather long time. Now if everyone is active, and committed, your right.


But my question is, is 0 accounts, sitting on them, farming every turn really what we want? Is the SGW style any better? Is there a better solution?

I mean yes it makes no sense that its all based on %,,,, but if its not then how do you stop 10 or 20 players from ruling the game and sitting on anyone who even looks like a threat? If the gap from top to bottom is to wide to ever cross then the game is dead.

Salaam_Alaykum wrote:In a war I massed someone, I started off with a strike of 2,037,918,960 , and the persons defense was 1,925,103,228, by the end of my massing the person, I my strike was 25,318,260 and the persons defense was 1,385,092 ,
So it's true, It's not worth having any wars, Might as well just attack yourself and enjoy it, lol Not like any real wars in the world that I know of.

And what did you expect?

Did you think you will mass 2 billions of defenses with your 2 bilions of strike and end up with 1.5 billion strike while enemy will have nothing?
If yes, then why should anyone build a defense and not simply go amok and mass random people?
If no, then what's your point?

Guys theres no point in trying to say anything about the massing cost.
It will not change.
The only arguement I could see that MIGHT show a pair of people is that the cost of massing doesn't change, the cost may go up/down as weapons+ UU cost different amounts.
However incomes do change, as accounts get larger they lose more more of there income.
But I really don't care anymore. I just keep 500b+3m uu stocked a way then I can take out 3/4 players before I need to worry about getting more resources.

Lord Ishurue wrote:Funny how Beldar talks crap about me AFTER I deleted my shell lmao .
I have been planning on leaving AWs for a while. Was looking for a buyer .
I sold my UUs to an old friend. Then deleted the shell .

what is the funny thing about making fun of your bully Motd? I do not know you but I can get a good idea about your character just by this bully childish Motd - just like you put it there, someone from TM could do the same, but as they said they have more mature standards than some childs we know...

and btw, i happened to see this Motd during this last war - so my timing posting it was kinda accurate...
cheers

Well what can I say, The war was fun while it lasted and from what I saw there was no personal acrimony between the waring players. So I will say thanks to my alliance mates who fought as a team and thanks to our opponents for the fun.

As to the other comments on war within AW. Well generally I suppose that there is a massive overemphasis on covert action and I don't like the way Temporary Protection works. As there is a delay for entering Vacation Mode after massing then I think there should also be a delay before you can enter protection at say 25% of the protection being used.

Kenzu wrote:

seaborgium wrote:he hates the war aspect. it cost too much, no "real" action.
this is a VERY large issue I know people leave for.

If you are destroying massive amounts of resources you must pay massive amounts of resources too,
because if you can mass huge accounts without losing much, then the game sucks.

It's sad to see him leave, even though I knew he was packing up.

attacker loses more than the defender => no massing => logging in once a day ( maybe 2 times ) => boredom => quit

As long as the defender will lose almost same amount of resources as the attacker this game will go nowhere.

damgood wrote:attacker loses more than the defender => no massing => logging in once a day ( maybe 2 times ) => boredom => quit

As long as the defender will lose almost same amount of resources as the attacker this game will go nowhere.

This is what we have been trying to say.

well to a point,,,,


going the other way and allowing a smaller lower leveled, and lower teched and weaker weaponed account to have a positive kill ratio is just as bad.

I personally think that the ratio of losses should not depend on the size of someone's army, but only on their technology (tech points, skill level, personal bonus).

We know Kenzu, we know. You created your own game, so those who like that can go there and play it. Thank you for that.

Massing can be done quite profitably, if you know how to do it ... Techs and personal bonus can determine that, as well as your playstyle - how you conduct the massing. I like this game especially because of that - in order to war EFFECTIVELY and EFFICIENTLY you have to build your account for that

It is true though that the higher the tech, the more efficient your troops. (not action though).

Maybe some people complain that it's too costly to wage war, because their techs are too low compared to the enemy and they simply need to lose much more troops and weapons to get the job done, but if they researched their techs by another 30%, then their losses would be considerably smaller.

If you are experienced in fighting a war and you work in a team, making a strike together in small strike groups, then you will manage to destroy 2 or 3 times more than what you lose.

Strategy and teamwork is extremely important.

I wish it were that easy kenzu but considering the cost to raise my techs by that 30% is almost 800bil kuwal it is pointless. How nice. Everyone worth massing has the same damn techs so obviously its going to suck when you attack them. The assaulting system is a little faulty and could use some tweaking. There is no sense in someone who attacks a 25bil defense with a 15bil strike and kills MORE than the defender with the same techs. Especially if the attack system is already geared towards the defense at 5:4 ratio.

In other words. This is bull:
This assault is one of many that are like this. Attacking a defense that is almost 2.5x his attack and yet I lose more somehow. (FYI I had better techs than them from personal bonus)
I know that his % of soldiers lost is higher and i lost so much because i had a lot trained but who cares? All I see is that you can destroy your enemy without having to build as much
In my opinion this is absurd. Looks to me that you should just untrain your soldiers and sell your weapons in a war to be safe from this crap.

[02 Jan] 15:06 xxxxxxx 17348 17818 10,564,079,922 24,620,688,000 details

woah,,, what?

your saying that if they are equal in techs,levels, and weapondry that you think the larger army should suffer smaller losses? if your strike is nearly double the size of a defense and your equals in weapodry, techs and levels then you SHOULD lose more men. I mean if you follow that logic all the way through, then size will win every fight hands down.

Let`s say I could get over the massing cost algorithms etc.

What about after the massing?

Let`s say I can live with the massing costs, but there must be a way to regain part of my losses, or at least have the satisfaction to profitably farm my victim from time to time.

If the one getting massed sets his realm alert level to critical, and he logs in every let`s say every 5-7 hours => he won`t even loose resources, I won`t gain any. Where is my satisfaction for completing a costly massing/as/covert operation? The only "pleasure" i will have is that i spent a lot of resources, and brought him down, just to watch him rebuild to a certain point, without being able to do anything about it.

He is on critical, you are not

he has little to rebuild with, you have more



This means ultimately you out grow him. If he can not do anything to "stop" you from sitting on him, or turn farming him, then how is anyone to ever get anyone else off them? Why continue to play at all if the guy who strikes first always wins?

Now I do agree there is a large difference in the "after effects" of war here in AW then all the other games. As in SGW you have to wait till you have an 8 day PPT to either rebuild or to hole away funds to rebuild later.

But you must also remember AW is slower paced, and income very low. Is it just a side effect of accounts still being very small for the most part? Is it a side effect of the 7 plus days of PPT one can use in a row? I think its more a side effect of the 4 hr protections myself, coupled with low incomes.


Also want to point out, if you have someone crippled, you can farm them profitably if you keep them sabbed and assassinated down IF they have enough income to make it worth your while.

I agree with you on the above post, bt you pointed only one aspect..the best scenario;when you mass someone, in 90% of the cases you will be returned the favour( you take that chance when you decide to mass); my point is that there must be a way to make a difference between player activity.

You cannot put on the same step a player who logs in 3 times a day with a player who logs in more than 7 times/day.

I happen to agree with you on that, tho I would make a larger disticncton. I think 3 log ins and 7 log ins are fairly close. I would say 1 or 2 log ins versus 10 or 12, but yeah, I do agree with you on the point.

curumo wrote:Massing can be done quite profitably, if you know how to do it ... Techs and personal bonus can determine that, as well as your playstyle - how you conduct the massing. I like this game especially because of that - in order to war EFFECTIVELY and EFFICIENTLY you have to build your account for that

That's correct but you forget one thing: a mediocre player will never have the same techs as a big player. Therefore only thing he can do is sit and watch, there's nothing he can do about it without massive losses.

Yeah but this will always be like that, at any stage of the game... the only real thing he CAN do is adjust his gameplay and be patient until he's in the position to strike back. That's at least how I see it

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:I wish it were that easy kenzu but considering the cost to raise my techs by that 30% is almost 800bil kuwal it is pointless. How nice. Everyone worth massing has the same damn techs so obviously its going to suck when you attack them. The assaulting system is a little faulty and could use some tweaking. There is no sense in someone who attacks a 25bil defense with a 15bil strike and kills MORE than the defender with the same techs. Especially if the attack system is already geared towards the defense at 5:4 ratio.

In other words. This is bull:
This assault is one of many that are like this. Attacking a defense that is almost 2.5x his attack and yet I lose more somehow. (FYI I had better techs than them from personal bonus)
I know that his % of soldiers lost is higher and i lost so much because i had a lot trained but who cares? All I see is that you can destroy your enemy without having to build as much
In my opinion this is absurd. Looks to me that you should just untrain your soldiers and sell your weapons in a war to be safe from this crap.

[02 Jan] 15:06 xxxxxxx 17348 17818 10,564,079,922 24,620,688,000 details

I don't think that's true, I have massed many times already, and there was no change in massing as far as I know. The higher losses might be due to a higher number of untrained units on one's side, or maybe because one side uses also weaker weapons for some troops.