Attack/Raid changes

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Re: Attack/Raid changes

Post by Sandwalker on Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:27 pm

Nomad wrote:Ok Admin, I understand that, what my point was based on, is


defensive weapons only last a set number of hits

so an alliance could use multiple "farming" attacks at a decreased cost to effectively remove a defense through weapon failure

if that made sense.

that's how inactives are born, bless their hearts! zero def inactives that is.

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Re: Attack/Raid changes

Post by Hai-Shulud on Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:20 pm

If i may be so bold as to suggest something -

If you want more wars and more massings instead if altering farming costs add a new function to alliances. So when an alliance declares war on another alliance all these reductions to repair costs and losses come into effect between the two alliances.

Let me explain my thinking- This reduced costs and losses will only apply for attack between opposing members. This will mean that it is cheaper to farm or mass the enemy alliance. Therefore this will lead to alliances declaring war on each other as it will be cheaper to steal each others resources

The reason i like this game so much is the ability to destroy someone completely, please dont take that away or make it too easy.

Implement my suggestion and i promise you The Commonwealth will make the game much more interesting Twisted Evil
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Re: Attack/Raid changes

Post by Admin on Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:11 pm

wanna maybe quantify the reductions?
cos so far we're only talking about making farming a bit cheaper, i think 10-15% decrease in repairs and maybe a bit lowering unit losses.
And personally I think it's ok with making such a change being affecting globally everyone

The declaring war thing might be good and probably even something along the lines of alliance A declares war and gains some boost, but if alliance B declares war back then both sides gain an even higher boost.
Now question is what boost? Simply make strike suffer less damage when attacking, making killing def's and everything else that much cheaper? or just drop at/st costs for all attacks between these two sides? or anything else?

But there needs to be some cost associated with it, otherwise alliances will use it even if they only want to mass just one person and neither alliance wishes for a full scale war.
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Re: Attack/Raid changes

Post by Nomad on Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:24 am

I have always wished relations were used for more then making farming lists.

And you are correct on your point admin
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Re: Attack/Raid changes

Post by Kenzu on Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:36 pm

I say lower farm and raid costs by 25% (25% less losses and repairs for both attacker and defender)

I say you should farm/raid cheaper if you declare war on someone.
(If you declare war on someone, and they don't declare war on you, farming and raiding costs 50% less until the other one declares war on you too)

If that person declares war on you, then farm and raid should cost as before. (which should be 25% cheaper, instead of 50%)

To sum up:

neutral attacks neutral 75% repair costs and losses
war attacks neutral 50% repair costs and losses
neutral attacks war 75% repair costs and losses
war attacks war 75% repair costs and losses

therefore it will be better for the attacker to declare war before farming/raiding.

costs for assaulting and other attack shall remain untouched.

PS: maybe if you attack someone, the game should automatically have you declare war on your opponent. afterall you went to war with him. You can always set your stance back after the attack.
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Re: Attack/Raid changes

Post by Nomad on Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:59 am

in the above you need to factor in peace settings.

I dont see the need to mandated war settings, unless they change back on their own. It makes far to much work to keep a farming list.

Also the War vs War setting defeats the pourpose because if implemented I'll simply set war to every account on the server to negate their advantage Wink
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Re: Attack/Raid changes

Post by Admin on Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:48 pm

Released and now an Idea

was playing with the possibility of giving people the chance to simply make farmlists, you can see the list just like you can see a list of people you declared war on, but with the difference that they dont get that annoying "xxx set you to war" message.

Now comes the fun part.
Should Person A wish to declare actual war on Person B, then A will receive another 10% off repair costs and 10% off unit losses on farm attacks.

However, should B ever do any of the other missions onto A (assault, destroy, etc.) then they will kill A's units 20% faster than normal, due to the hate the B's soldiers will have towards A's realm (in effect making retaliation cheaper)

(In this one way war relation, B does not get the cheaper farming bonus, neither does A get the "kill more units with each hit" bonus)

Should person B decide to declare war back on A then both people will receive cheaper farming bonus. In addition to that B will kill units 30% faster than normal. Person A (the one who declared war first) will kill units 20% faster than normal.

Should either party declare peace or neutral during a two way war declaration then the other party will have their relation reset to neutral (obviously along with a message so they can set war again immediately should they wish to do so)

Another update that would be done along with this is that you cannot change the war relation onto another type to someone who you attacked less than 48 hours ago.

Standard rules apply. Numbers are just a pointer, system is to be commented upon.
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Re: Attack/Raid changes

Post by Kenzu on Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:38 pm

This is too complicated.
Should be more simple.

Disagree with the complicated differences
and
Disagree that my relation towards someone else changes without my consent.

I suggest the following:

A declares war on B
A farms 10% cheaper
B farms as before

A declares war on B
B declares war on A

A farms 10% more expensive
B farms 10% more expensive

Basically if you declare war on someone else, you can farm cheaper, but if both declare war on each other, both farm 10% more expensive. because the units are prepared that the other one will attack and fight harder.

This will lead to more war relations and keeping peace relations only with people you trust.

PS: But I prefer not to make any changes at all.
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Re: Attack/Raid changes

Post by Sandwalker on Tue Sep 22, 2009 6:01 pm

Kenzu wrote:
A declares war on B
B declares war on A

A farms 10% more expensive
B farms 10% more expensive

So you're giving people a way to be farmed harder. A week ago you were advocating farm cost reductions, now you're giving cake to defenders, unwarranted cake to be exact.

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Re: Attack/Raid changes

Post by Admin on Tue Sep 22, 2009 6:14 pm

Kenzu wrote:This is too complicated.
Should be more simple.
it's very simple

you declare war on someone
they can mass you for less kuwal
they declare war back, they can mass for even less kuwal, but so can you

doesn't get any simpler than that
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Re: Attack/Raid changes

Post by Nomad on Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:08 pm

I like the overall concept but feel the % are WAY WAY to high.

Please keep in mind, it only takes what 14 or 15 hits to 0 weapons. Add another 30% to that and how much easier will it be?

Secondly, another point that should be instituted is after a set time, like 48hrs or 72hrs, or even 7 days, the below effect is removed
should B ever do any of the other missions onto A (assault, destroy, etc.) then they will kill A's units 20% faster than normal, due to the hate the B's soldiers will have towards A's realm (in effect making retaliation cheaper)

as its worded now, its possible to retain that bonus for weeks, months, even years. It needs to be limited, or make a way to counter it, such as a peace setting from account A to account B.
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Re: Attack/Raid changes

Post by Kenzu on Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:18 pm

Let's not make any changes to the farm costs based on relations AT ALL!

There are more important things to be coded first!
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Re: Attack/Raid changes

Post by Nomad on Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:24 pm

Kenzu wrote:Let's not make any changes to the farm costs based on relations AT ALL!

There are more important things to be coded first!

Like what?

I am skeptical of cost changes as well, but I'll give Admin 100% of my backing because he has earned it through his diligence, consistancy, and the fact he listens, asks, and accepts suggestions. We owe him that. If this is the update he wants to do, then let him.

30% is still WAY WAY to high What a Face
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Re: Attack/Raid changes

Post by Admin on Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:47 pm

Nomad wrote:as its worded now, its possible to retain that bonus for weeks, months, even years. It needs to be limited, or make a way to counter it, such as a peace setting from account A to account B.
you can remove the effect completely for both sides by simply changing relation from war to anything else
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Re: Attack/Raid changes

Post by Nomad on Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:59 am

Admin wrote:
Nomad wrote:as its worded now, its possible to retain that bonus for weeks, months, even years. It needs to be limited, or make a way to counter it, such as a peace setting from account A to account B.
you can remove the effect completely for both sides by simply changing relation from war to anything else

ok, let me get this right

Another update that would be done along with this is that you cannot change the war relation onto another type to someone who you attacked less than 48 hours ago.

So I set war to you, and i cant change it for 48 hrs, giving you 48 hrs to strike back with the high % bonus, but after 48hrs I set you to peace or neutral and it negates the bonus. Correct?

another draw back would be losses from farming live accounts without setting war, but I'm ok with that personally.
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Re: Attack/Raid changes

Post by Kenzu on Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:20 pm

I say increase the amount of turns it costs, decrease repair prices,

this will make smaller players more protected,
huge players less protected,

as each attack will have a higher base value even against tiny defenses.
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Re: Attack/Raid changes

Post by Admin on Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:24 pm

Nomad wrote:
So I set war to you, and i cant change it for 48 hrs, giving you 48 hrs to strike back with the high % bonus, but after 48hrs I set you to peace or neutral and it negates the bonus. Correct?
Yup but then you also lose the cheaper farming bonus

Nomad wrote:another draw back would be losses from farming live accounts without setting war, but I'm ok with that personally.
well not declaring war simply means you lose out on a bonus that would make it cheaper for you to farm them, but should they retaliate then the war setting to them will make it a bit cheaper to mass you
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Re: Attack/Raid changes

Post by rflash on Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:27 pm

Admin wrote:Released and now an Idea

was playing with the possibility of giving people the chance to simply make farmlists, you can see the list just like you can see a list of people you declared war on, but with the difference that they dont get that annoying "xxx set you to war" message.

Now comes the fun part.
Should Person A wish to declare actual war on Person B, then A will receive another 10% off repair costs and 10% off unit losses on farm attacks.

However, should B ever do any of the other missions onto A (assault, destroy, etc.) then they will kill A's units 20% faster than normal, due to the hate the B's soldiers will have towards A's realm (in effect making retaliation cheaper)

(In this one way war relation, B does not get the cheaper farming bonus, neither does A get the "kill more units with each hit" bonus)

Should person B decide to declare war back on A then both people will receive cheaper farming bonus. In addition to that B will kill units 30% faster than normal. Person A (the one who declared war first) will kill units 20% faster than normal.

Should either party declare peace or neutral during a two way war declaration then the other party will have their relation reset to neutral (obviously along with a message so they can set war again immediately should they wish to do so)

Another update that would be done along with this is that you cannot change the war relation onto another type to someone who you attacked less than 48 hours ago.

Standard rules apply. Numbers are just a pointer, system is to be commented upon.

That's a very good system.

We should have a more complex system for relations, not just war/neutral/peace .... something like war/hostile/neutral/friendly/peace .... you can have farms on hostile, but maybe when you show people with hostile those with war should be seen too ..... or if something more complicated is wanted we can have a 7 step relation system ..... war/hostile/annoying/neutral/no idea/friendly/peace.

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Re: Attack/Raid changes

Post by Admin on Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:19 pm

no that's too complicated, the best you can expect is that you can actually farmlist someone, showing up as separate category in relation lists
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Re: Attack/Raid changes

Post by Space2050 on Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:25 am

Farmlists make sense, but why not consider a way to let the other player know and understand that you aren't declaring an actual "War" on their account? I've had quite a few people dislike my old declaration of war habits I've learned from Dune Wars, and Gate Wars.

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Re: Attack/Raid changes

Post by Admin on Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:20 am

Space2050 wrote:Farmlists make sense, but why not consider a way to let the other player know and understand that you aren't declaring an actual "War" on their account? I've had quite a few people dislike my old declaration of war habits I've learned from Dune Wars, and Gate Wars.
hence the idea of the farmlist. the other person doesn't get a message from you putting them on your list.
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Re: Attack/Raid changes

Post by Kenzu on Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:10 pm

add an option "add to farm list"

it will not appear as declared war.
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Re: Attack/Raid changes

Post by Sandwalker on Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:12 pm

farmlist? Very Happy me want!

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Re: Attack/Raid changes

Post by Admin on Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:45 pm

Kenzu wrote:add an option "add to farm list"

it will not appear as declared war.
why suggest something I suggested one page ago already?
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Re: Attack/Raid changes

Post by Kenzu on Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:55 pm

Admin wrote:
Kenzu wrote:add an option "add to farm list"

it will not appear as declared war.
why suggest something I suggested one page ago already?

becaue you have not suggested it in this form.
I would like to have a button there.
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