Weapons Ware house and UU raid Shelter

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Weapons Ware house and UU raid Shelter

Post by Lance on Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:40 am

The annoying thing about buying excess weapons is that the cost of a damage point increases when the weapon isn't being used .

1. I ask to add a weapons ware house into the game .

a. each ware house reduces your income by X amount ( Employee fee )
b. Building warehouses become an option on construction yard level 1 .
c. each ware house can store x amount of weapons

_________________________________________

UU shelter Raid Shelter

a. You build shelters at constuction yard level 1 .
b. UUS in the shelter do not produce any income
c. shelters reduce your income by x amount ( maiteance fee )


Last edited by Majhoka on Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Weapons Ware house and UU raid Shelter

Post by Kenzu on Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:57 am

and what will the shelters do?
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Re: Weapons Ware house and UU raid Shelter

Post by Alex on Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:02 am

I would assume from that that they stop the UU stored there from being raided by other players.

-Alex
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Re: Weapons Ware house and UU raid Shelter

Post by Lance on Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:20 am

Kenzu wrote:and what will the shelters do?

Protect UUs from Raids .
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Re: Weapons Ware house and UU raid Shelter

Post by ¤ Angel Slayer on Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:37 pm

I think the shelters is a bad idea,
log in and train them if you don't want to be raided,
this is a war game not a stat building UU saving game,
might as well take away raiding then,
everyone will just be storing their UU's.
hey you think we can have a weapons closet so no one saab's our weapons, Laughing
yeah that idea sounds that lame lol
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Re: Weapons Ware house and UU raid Shelter

Post by Alex on Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:03 pm

Yeah I dont like the idea either.

You can train as farmers if you dont want them to be raided. There is a cost involved with this but that is the price you pay. (And some if not all the cost could be refunded through income if they are there long enough.)

-Alex
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Re: Weapons Ware house and UU raid Shelter

Post by Lance on Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:32 am

¤ Angel Slayer wrote:I think the shelters is a bad idea,
log in and train them if you don't want to be raided,
this is a war game not a stat building UU saving game,
might as well take away raiding then,
everyone will just be storing their UU's.
hey you think we can have a weapons closet so no one saab's our weapons, Laughing
yeah that idea sounds that lame lol

In real life does the army send all their weapon inventory into battle or do they store them in other places.

Most likely .

in real life do they have shelters for civilians . yes


jocolor
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Re: Weapons Ware house and UU raid Shelter

Post by Alex on Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:36 am

Yeah but this is a game not real life...

If there was ways to make everything safe then the game would lose all its fun. You need some risk in a game.

-Alex
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Re: Weapons Ware house and UU raid Shelter

Post by Lance on Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:56 am

Alex wrote:Yeah but this is a game not real life...

If there was ways to make everything safe then the game would lose all its fun. You need some risk in a game.

-Alex

not entirely safe . Warehouses can be destroyed . i think it would add more strategy to the game in the role of destroying enemy supplies rather than just sabotaging enemy weapons they have on hand .

on a regular sabotage mission you destroy 3-5 % of enemy weapons. if you chose to sneak into enemy warehouse you can destroy on a successful mission 1 -2.5 % of enemy stored weapons .

i am positive i played some video games were some missions you sneak into enemy base and plant bombs in enemy ware houses , thats were part of the idea came from .
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Re: Weapons Ware house and UU raid Shelter

Post by Alex on Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:08 am

Majhoka wrote:not entirely safe . Warehouses can be destroyed

I didn't realise that they would be destroyable. To me it seems like it just adds another layer of unessassary complexity and extra costs to the game.

The fact they can be destroyed seems to nullify it a little.

Costs kuwal to buy them which is cancelled by them not being destroyed as fast (saving kuwal in attacks).

Would there be more casualties when trying to attack warehouses?
Majhoka wrote:i am positive i played some video games were some missions you sneak into enemy base and plant bombs in enemy ware houses , thats were part of the idea came from .
I can see where your coming from I just don't agree it would add much to the game.

-Alex
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Re: Weapons Ware house and UU raid Shelter

Post by Lance on Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:52 am

[


Last edited by Majhoka on Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Weapons Ware house and UU raid Shelter

Post by Alex on Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:06 am

Majhoka wrote:as it is sometimes difficult for me to write out exactly what im thinking .

Thats fine, it happens to all of us.

Majhoka wrote:If it turns out to be a bad idea or too complex . i can delete the topic .

Theres no need to do that. Discussion is a good thing. If nobody addressed problems and such the game would get nowhere. It doesn't mean your idea is a bad one or anything, there are just different points of view and different opinions.

p.s You might want to edit your reply and change the color of, or put on bold, your responses in your quote, it sort of looks like I was saying those things lol
i.e:
alex wrote: what I said Bla bla blaBla bla blaBla bla blaBla bla blaBla bla blaBla bla bla.

your reply Bla bla blaBla bla blaBla bla blaBla bla bla

edit: You didn't have to remove your whole post lol

-Alex


Last edited by Alex on Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Weapons Ware house and UU raid Shelter

Post by Nomad on Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:14 pm

Well I am torn myself. I see less need for the weapons warehouses, but more need for the Shelters.

Weapon warehouses
Pros,,, dont have to repair the entire armory
Cons,,, it eliminates the restriction of weapons facilities(not coded yet)

Its a two sided coin, and a double edged blade. On one hand is a free way for massive strikes to attack cheaply, on the other it would help raiders emencely.

Shelters
I personally dislike the way we dont have a "general population". It does severly limit traders in this game. It cost you to train UU, then more to untrain them, then you lose 2% when trading them. Thats a very large cost to trade in comparission to other resources and other games. I would like to see a set % of income be allowed to be trained into "General population" or something similiar. Maybe 10% of total population or something. This would give you some pool to draw from when retraining lost units in att and def, or covert and assasins. It would help to ease the high costs of recovering from a good massing. I mean the overall cost for training a miner(mid grade income) is 7,500, then to untrain him is 7,546, then to make a super defender is 150,000, then to arm him with level 9 weapon is 112,000. So recovery and retraining is expensive.

Overall I think the balances in the game are good, and dont want to risk unbalancing it, even if i dont understand certain aspects(why untraining cost are more the training cost, and the screwy weapon repair costs) But having to deal with buying and selling large quanities of UU myself, and the troubles that come with it, trying to hold it long enough to sell it, seeing 90% of my profits eaten up by training/untraining/taxes, and trying to not get raided. For traders of UU here its a hard knock life.
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Re: Weapons Ware house and UU raid Shelter

Post by Admin on Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:40 pm

not sure if you noticed, 2% untraining loss got removed (as shown by the removal of that text which said you'd lose units)
That's why untraining costs are now higher

anyways, will think about the uu shelter thing. Initial thoughts, limiting it to several days, worth of raw up instead of army size. Most likely sheltered units generating, little or no income. On the other hand, most likely no un/training costs.

About weapon repairs. Taking sgw for example. Repairing a weapon from scratch was something like 30-35k compared to 550-600k build cost. Hence making massing way too cheap for the attacker, if he only has to keep repairing their weapons instead of having to rebuild them. At peak times I managed a ratio of 1 naq lost for each 20 naq destroyed (AT, UU, training, repair costs obviously all considered)

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Re: Weapons Ware house and UU raid Shelter

Post by Nomad on Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:02 pm

Admin wrote:not sure if you noticed, 2% untraining loss got removed (as shown by the removal of that text which said you'd lose units)
That's why untraining costs are now higher

anyways, will think about the uu shelter thing. Initial thoughts, limiting it to several days, worth of raw up instead of army size. Most likely sheltered units generating, little or no income. On the other hand, most likely no un/training costs.

About weapon repairs. Taking sgw for example. Repairing a weapon from scratch was something like 30-35k compared to 550-600k build cost. Hence making massing way too cheap for the attacker, if he only has to keep repairing their weapons instead of having to rebuild them. At peak times I managed a ratio of 1 naq lost for each 20 naq destroyed (AT, UU, training, repair costs obviously all considered)

The 2% was in reference to trading them via private trade broker, not untraining losses. Sorry for not being more clear.

I do think basing it on RAW UP is a better idea, and I say NO income, maybe even a loss of income(Very small per unit, say 1 to 5 kewal?) This is an added feature, not a free ride. Also, you have to log in to manualy move the men correct? no free/automatic training or nothing like that.

As for weapons, I am agreeing with you. I do have an unfinished idea, ill make a thread on it, maybe something usefull will come of it.
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Re: Weapons Ware house and UU raid Shelter

Post by Nomad on Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:58 am

Just wanted to bump the "general population" idea hidden in this thread.
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"General population"

Post by Nomad on Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:37 pm

http://aderanwars.forumotion.com/game-suggestions-f22/weapons-ware-house-and-uu-raid-shelter-t964.htm
Was originally discussed in the thread above, and Admin mentioned he would look into it. I ask this be considered with the comming updates. This idea would help to have a pool of units that can be trained without having to untrain them first. I know and understand training normal units has had its cost greatly reduced, so the idea may be not as useful. I would also say that its a good idea for those who trade UU, and for smaller accounts who thrive and excell because of selling UU.

Basis of the idea.

There would be a new group to "train" UU to called "General Population". This is a manual action, nothing automated. It is basicly a group that UU can be put in that makes them unraidable, but also being untrained means you gain no benifit from them.

Pros = gives a pool to use for UU trades and to retrain after massings.

Cons = is limited by 1 or more factors. (%of Raw UP or % of total Population) May have a cost. (1 time fee, very small, or a turn fee, also very small)

Discussion please.
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Re: Weapons Ware house and UU raid Shelter

Post by Kenzu on Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:02 pm

Majhoka wrote:
¤ Angel Slayer wrote:I think the shelters is a bad idea,
log in and train them if you don't want to be raided,
this is a war game not a stat building UU saving game,
might as well take away raiding then,
everyone will just be storing their UU's.
hey you think we can have a weapons closet so no one saab's our weapons, Laughing
yeah that idea sounds that lame lol

In real life does the army send all their weapon inventory into battle or do they store them in other places.

Most likely .

in real life do they have shelters for civilians . yes


jocolor

in real life only the richest can be saved.
Definitely not the average John.
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Re: Weapons Ware house and UU raid Shelter

Post by Kenzu on Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:04 pm

you mean like UU which can be "saved" in other words produces as much income as untrained BUT cannot be raided?
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Re: Weapons Ware house and UU raid Shelter

Post by Admin on Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:29 pm

thanks for reminding me

Following issues:
- Income should it be close to nil for keeping them in these shelters (~0-10) or could it be slightly above UU production (~25-30)
- Train/untrain cost would be 0, otherwise it would defeat the purpose it is supposed to have

more to come later

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Re: Weapons Ware house and UU raid Shelter

Post by Nomad on Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:48 pm

LOL way to revive a 2 month old topic LOL

and I disagree with you TBH. There are more "Average Joes" who make it out then rich folk. I say that based solely on the numbers of "Joes" vs rich folk LOL
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Re: Weapons Ware house and UU raid Shelter

Post by Nomad on Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:55 pm

I say since they are being protected, and not out in the open then there should be no income period. If you want to give them a decreased income I wont complain but feel the "feature" is worth the loss of income. I personally don't have an issue with a small decrease of income per unit (very small, like 5 kewal per turn). As you said, there is a cost for housing these units.


And yes no "Untraining fee", my remark about cost was a cost to put them in the "pool" or a small decrease in income due to the UU in the pool. Not a untraining fee.


*Patiently waits*
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Re: Weapons Ware house and UU raid Shelter

Post by Osyndicate on Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:37 am

Nomad, don't go out on another topic revival rants....

And I agree with nomad, the Richy:Joe Ratio is lopsided towards the latter. And the Joes would be able to fend for them selves a bit more, being that they haven't been treated to a pampered life.
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Re: Weapons Ware house and UU raid Shelter

Post by Nomad on Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:43 am

exactly.
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Re: Weapons Ware house and UU raid Shelter

Post by Kenzu on Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:07 am

what I wanted to say is that the shelters are pretty expensive and most people would die anyway in RL.

But then again this is a game
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