Please check out kenzu/sara -suspected of multi/ script using

by Smog Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:36 pm

In the last weeks, due to war between WR and Mujengan, we`ve analised each player from the opposite side very well...and we learned some interesting stuff:

From the point sara and kenzu got massed, they followed the same pattern: bank each in the same time ( by same time we consider same turn +-2 minutes gap between them). 2 weeks passed now, and this pattern occurs each time they are out of PPT. At @2hours, they bank. Not more, not less, and in certain periods of the day.
Furthermore, as a bonus of what i`ve just written, there seems to be a pattern when this occurs... there seem to be some magical seconds, which keep repeating( even if it`s two minutes later or earlier. to avoid confusions i`ll make an example: kenzu banks at xx:yy:40 then 2 hours later he banks at xx+2:yy+-5minutes: (second between 38 and 43). Room for coincidence in banking always around the same second? I guess not. Same goes for sara...

So these being posted, admin please check out their accounts, log in pattern and bank behavior, and give a verdict.
With your approval I'm gonna post the links

by Admin Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:54 pm

moving post forward to avoid misunderstandings:

damgood wrote:I ignored the discussion on chat because I saw where it was going.

Ok, I understand I am supposed to ignore this thread from now on because I see where it is going, thank you very much, this will save me a lot of time

damgood wrote:As a direct result, Smog decided not to play the game further.

That's his choice, although once he and vaga started talking how I (could be) giving Kenzu 500b-1T kuwal each week or something, or how vaga said he'd hang himself if sara told him on chat that she banks herself (which she did), well that pretty much showed how serious they really are about this issue

damgood wrote:Also, a piece of advice. We accused kenzu of cheating, and instead of searching if it was something wrong you searched dirt in Vaga`s (was it the case in this context?!?!) logs to cover kenzu more. That is something you can`t, and you must not do as an admin. You proved with this that you are taking kenzu side, and for me is enough.

Piece of advice, if you think I showed you "dirt" then I suggest you get someone to show you logs of chat. If you want to call it "dirt" that's your choice but I think it's very disrespectful of your friend, I'll assume you and vaga are on friends level.

After a war starts, which usually makes people to be MUCH more active than not during wars, you are suprised they both log in so regularly => argument is moot
After their defs are massed, you are suprised they bank in regular intervals => argument is moot
Since they would get farmed profitably after a similar amount of turns, you are suprised that they will bank together after the same amount of turns => argument is moot

I took vaga as a simple example that close logging and banking after each other means jack, to which vaga pointed out that micey is another person, etc.
By which he completely justified kenzu and sara that very instant
I didn't have to search for what I already knew

So by this post you've proven you will ignore what I say, think that you have undeniable "proof" and refuse to believe simple facts about warring.

old post:
kenzu has no clue about scripting, so there's that

They live together and almost always go to sleep together

now obviously when you mass him, he knows you'll farm him if he has more than x kuwal, last time he told me that's about 2 ish hours worht of income tops, mb 1.5 hours sometimes. so he'll login every 2 hours during the day and bank, makes complete sense, that's what I always did in sgw when i was in wars.

by Smog Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:02 pm

So him and sara log in the same time and bank in the same time all the time? They really act "as one"

by damgood Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:10 pm

@admin... i`m using shared IP. Don`t insult my intelligence please. I`m in the same place with my brother half a day, but very rare it happends to bank in a 5 minute interval...it is humanly imposible to keep it going for 2 weeks.
So please, if you are looking for an excuse, find something clever.

I also notice you checked everything in like 2 minutes. 2 weeks now?..really? If even having solid proof you keep covering for them, then I really pitty the way this game is going.

by Admin Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:32 am

damgood wrote:So please, if you are looking for an excuse, find something clever.

Talk to vaga, apparently he knows how to do so too

damgood wrote:I also notice you checked everything in like 2 minutes. 2 weeks now?..really? If even having solid proof you keep covering for them, then I really pitty the way this game is going.

I also notice you like to ignore how the discussion had been going on in the chat long before smog pointed me to this topic.
So reply in 2 minutes? really? are you that much incapable of reading and comparing timestamps?

by damgood Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:09 am

my point is you are not objective, and I get it, he is your brother.

Anyone else in place of kenzu would of been banned by now, and one account of the two deteled. But of course, because they stay all day in same house( I bet they are even using the same PC), and you "know them", using the same IP and banking same time, it is OK.

I ignored the discussion on chat because I saw where it was going. As a direct result, Smog decided not to play the game further.

Also, a piece of advice. We accused kenzu of cheating, and instead of searching if it was something wrong you searched dirt in Vaga`s (was it the case in this context?!?!) logs to cover kenzu more. That is something you can`t, and you must not do as an admin. You proved with this that you are taking kenzu side, and for me is enough.

I am simply stunned how far you go, treating all of us like idiots.

by Admin Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:25 am

damgood wrote:I ignored the discussion on chat because I saw where it was going.

Ok, I understand I am supposed to ignore this thread from now on because I see where it is going, thank you very much, this will save me a lot of time

damgood wrote:As a direct result, Smog decided not to play the game further.

That's his choice, although once he and vaga started talking how I (could be) giving Kenzu 500b-1T kuwal each week or something, or how vaga said he'd hang himself if sara told him on chat that she banks herself (which she did), well that pretty much showed how serious they really are about this issue

damgood wrote:Also, a piece of advice. We accused kenzu of cheating, and instead of searching if it was something wrong you searched dirt in Vaga`s (was it the case in this context?!?!) logs to cover kenzu more. That is something you can`t, and you must not do as an admin. You proved with this that you are taking kenzu side, and for me is enough.

Piece of advice, if you think I showed you "dirt" then I suggest you get someone to show you logs of chat. If you want to call it "dirt" that's your choice but I think it's very disrespectful of your friend, I'll assume you and vaga are on friends level.

After a war starts, which usually makes people to be MUCH more active than not during wars, you are suprised they both log in so regularly => argument is moot
After their defs are massed, you are suprised they bank in regular intervals => argument is moot
Since they would get farmed profitably after a similar amount of turns, you are suprised that they will bank together after the same amount of turns => argument is moot

I took vaga as a simple example that close logging and banking after each other means jack, to which vaga pointed out that micey is another person, etc.
By which he completely justified kenzu and sara that very instant
I didn't have to search for what I already knew

So by this post you've proven you will ignore what I say, think that you have undeniable "proof" and refuse to believe simple facts about warring.

by damgood Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:26 am

It is you who is ignoring and trying to hide it. I comment only what`s written, i`m not adding chat, MSN convos. You were asked on forum, reply on forum with all facts, so everyone can see everything and make the right judgement.

You were unable to give a straight answer at the original post.

So let me rephrase the main questions you were asked, and you failed to answer. The answers are simple yes/no. Not "let`s see random, not random" and other bla wich is just purely and interpretable talk.

1. Did the banking pattern occured as we`ve posted it?
2. Can it be script behaviour? ( technically speaking, not I know Kenzu, he doesn`t know anything about scripts).
3. When banking, do Sara and Kenzu bank from the same PC?

At the point where I can see cheating just from watching someone over a few weeks, and you, as a game admin can`t see it, then i really pitty you. Nobody is doubting Kenzu and Sara are two different persons, the point is one of them 90% of the time is using both accounts.

And last of all, I don`t think you are in position of teaching me about war. (notice again here how you derail from subject). As for the parts you didn`t comment in my previous post, silence is an answer too. I`m glad we agree on something.

by seaborgium Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:58 pm

It seems 6 people ready to leave over this.
I know at least 5 of them put them up for sale or have had them for sale.

by navblue Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:20 pm

Admin wrote:kenzu has no clue about scripting, so there's that

I don't care either way if they are cheating or not. What bothers me about this topic is that because the accused is your brother and he is treated differently than anyone else. The best perception us normal players can obtain is what we read here on the forums. What I read in that one sentence is "He is my brother, I know he can't script, there for I have no reason to look into this further. Case closed.". You didn't show us that you made an attempt to take the accusation seriously.

Effectively all I see is a biased admin. Everyone knows he's your brother and the only way to allow him to play and for you to uphold any integrity for this game as admin is to treat your family within the game the same as you would any other player. Without us players being confident in that trust that you would remain unbiased with your family there is really no point in us playing here.

Are you required to be fair and unbiased, absolutely not. You can take this game to any level you want just as easily as we can choose not to play.

by Admin Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:10 pm

Kenzu has been accused of scripting, so I denied the scripting accusation, then I went on to explain the rest of the circumstances. Where did you see a one sentence explanation?

what about the rest of my explanations? what about the page long post 2 replies up (which was basically a more in depth clarification for whoever was not able to understand that 3 line summary of player behavior during wars in my original reply)?

Again, this was my fault because I assumed that the person who posted the thread knows how wars are waged and affect activity of players and counter farming strategies. I often assume people know more than they do simply because they have been playing for a long time. So in that sense I admit I made a mistake.

Also partially because while this was posted, there was an ingame chat discussion going on where I spent a fair amount of time looking at everything and talking to them. Which apparently was also a waste of time since everything I said kept getting ignored anyway

by Keinutnai Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:28 pm

Smog wrote:In the last weeks, due to war between WR and Mujengan, we`ve analised each player from the opposite side very well...and we learned some interesting stuff:

From the point sara and kenzu got massed, they followed the same pattern: bank each in the same time ( by same time we consider same turn +-2 minutes gap between them). 2 weeks passed now, and this pattern occurs each time they are out of PPT. At @2hours, they bank. Not more, not less, and in certain periods of the day.
Furthermore, as a bonus of what i`ve just written, there seems to be a pattern when this occurs... there seem to be some magical seconds, which keep repeating( even if it`s two minutes later or earlier. to avoid confusions i`ll make an example: kenzu banks at xx:yy:40 then 2 hours later he banks at xx+2:yy+-5minutes: (second between 38 and 43). Room for coincidence in banking always around the same second? I guess not. Same goes for sara...

So these being posted, admin please check out their accounts, log in pattern and bank behavior, and give a verdict.
With your approval I'm gonna post the links

Before I reply to this thread, let me tell you, that I guarantee you that there is no script or anything of that kind that would bank my kuwal. The only way kuwal got banked it was when either me or Sara clicked on the deposit kuwal button.

And now let's talk about patterns. I cannot talk for Sara, but let me tell you how I view this whole issue.

If there was banking in the same second, then it must be sheer coincidence. But let me tell you. You yourself said that you bank 20 times a day. I personally bank during this war practically every one hour, and if I got massed I bank every single turn. Only when I am on critical I can afford to bank once in 2-3 hours, but I always tend to bank more than less.

I noticed that you too bank kuwal very often. Now I didn't spy on you for 2 weeks, and I didn't make any videos of you either. But I did spend a quite long time looking at your account, while I was lurking and farming Mujengan. It did feel to me like you are banking way to much for a normal person. And sometimes I even had the impression that you don't sleep! Since I was banking a lot myself, I didn't think that you might be cheating. I am actually surprised that you accuse me of cheating, when you yourself are actually much more active at banking than me (you have to, because your defense is usually about 2-3 billion, while mine is about 8-10 billion and we got similar account sizes.).

There are multiple reasons why the kuwal gets banked in the first minutes of a round:
1) When I want to spend less time on AW (only to bank), I bank before a round ends, and then again in the first minute when a new round starts. This allows me to have more time to do my stuff without having to come on AW to bank again.
2) The longer kuwal stays out, the more likely it will be stolen, that's why I try to bank as soon as the kuwal is received.

And then you suggest that kuwal gets banked at similar periods of time. Well not 100% sure what you mean about it, because we bank kuwal the whole day we are awake, so it's impossible to have "certain periods of time".

If you mean that we start banking and end banking on each day during the same time, then there is a reason for it.
Namely it is called body clock. Most people wake up and go to sleep around the same time each day. It's completely normal to start banking when one wakes up and it's normal to wake up and go to bed around the same time each day.

Also, as you know, Sara is my wife. We spend practically all time together. We wake up at the same time, eat together, spend most of our day in our room at our computers (she studied for exams from home, as it's not required to visit most classes, and I work my master thesis, work on Aderan Wars, or do other stuff on the computer), go out together, and go to bed together. Me and Sara live practically identical lives. Obviously this will not be possible once I start working, but eventually we will both work and the time we spend at home and outside will be identical again.

I looked at one of your videos, the number 3, and I saw nothing until at the very end of the video. Only at the end of the video I saw that me and Sara banked at the beginning of a turn. Well I really don't know why it's so surprising to bank at the start of a turn. I assume that your video is 13 minutes long because there is more stuff to show, because the last minute shows nothing special. If your video DOES have something interesting to show, then you should put it in your description, because I didn't have the urge to waste 13 minutes of my time, for something that I can see in 1 minute. You could have cut the video into a 1 minute short so that we dont have to watch stuff where nothing happens.

Now let me repeat. There is no script or any program that would allows us to bank. We bank just like all other people do. If you don't believe me, then there is nothing more I can do. I told you how things are really like and if you still wish to leave, then I cannot hold you back.

I do appreciate however that you are trying to fight cheating in such a noble way, even wanting to quit the game to uphold your principles. I have talked to admin before and asked him to come up with better ways to find cheaters on Aderan Wars. Without a doubt the system that AW has is much better than the cheater-finding system that other non-corporation games have such as sgw, tcw or sgu have. Nevertheless it is in the process of being improved and should detect cheating earlier and more accurately.

I have noticed that for over a month now, smog was banking at the beginning of a turn almost each single turn, very often he banked in the first minutes of a turn, and I had the feeling that he must be banking 30 times a day, every single day when he is not protected. I didn't accuse Smog of using scrips, because I know that some people literally live in Aderan during a war, and I count myself in that group. I can't stop wondering why Smog things it's a script if someone banks a lot, if he banks a lot himself.

Also, if someone did make a script, it would be retarded of him to make it bank at the same time, don't you think? It would be too suspicious. Also there is a thing that logs out a player after 3 hours, and I don't believe that an average script can log in through the protection, maybe a sophisticated script can. Also, you can be sure that admin would not allow any such script to be run.

I got a question on you guys: The suggestions that you made that admin could give me 500 billion per day was what for? Where you making fun of him or what?

seaborgium wrote:It seems 6 people ready to leave over this.
I know at least 5 of them put them up for sale or have had them for sale.

Actually I believe that the people who left/are leaving because of this, actually decided to leave the game much earlier, because of something else. Be it because they want to say goodbye to all browser games, because they want some cash, because they want more free time for other things, have RL issues, don't like something about this game, or simply got bored of it after the years. I know about a couple players who told me that they are planning to leave much earlier. So it's incorrect to say that "6 people leave because of this". Maybe we can say that 6 people signed their names in protest of this, but they didn't leave because of this, because they were on their way to leave much earlier, due to other reasons.

Adrian and vaga for example were selling their account for a long time already, and Damgood told me some time ago that he is going to sell his uu in the future after he raids a lot. I know that because I was and still am looking for an account to buy. I bought whatamidoinghere account a month ago, but I sold it already.

by castravete Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:18 pm

you see Kenzu, I'm actually leaving because of this...I had several thought of leaving but I decided to play it on for so very long...but this is the filling drop...I think your brother is given you several advantages and he is not treating us equal so I want to leave because of this...Enough for a reason?

by Smog Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:01 pm

You know, you and your brother should set up your lies BEFORE posting them here. First of all i never said you bank too often. It's none of my business how often you bank. BUT the fact that you and sara always bank at the exact same time ALL THE TIME is outstanding. And about the lying thing, one of your brother's arguments in your defense for banking at the same time was that one of you logs out and the other one logs in to bank cause you share the same PC. BUT you come here and say:

Keinutnai wrote: spend most of our day in our room at our computers

. Now enlighten me please: which one of you is full of crap?
As for trying to draw attention over my activity, you're IDIOT (smog 3 days ban LOL ) I was logged in all day on chat for about 12 hours a day.

by Admin Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:11 pm

You are
quote me when I said even once they share a pc?

by adrian Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:08 am

admin, give it a rest , it`s over. As much as you like to cover this subject, too many have seen it. Or do you think only smog and vaga were looking at what was posted here? Sadly smog was the only one to film it. The others resumed just seeing it.

Kenzu, yes, we were thinking of leaving aderan, but then war began and we started having fun kicking your asses(guess i`m gonna get some ban for this, but who cares?). Let`s face it WR is now a wreck. 1-2 more weeks and you would of collapsed.

But you are right on one thing, this matter made us realise that there is no use playing the game. If we had any doubts or regrets, now we don`t.

I for one I am very happy to get rid of the account.

by Smog Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:00 am

Admin wrote:quote me when I said even once they share a pc?

I can't it was on chat. It was your explanation for sara and kenzu banking at 10 seconds one after another in the 29th minute of a turn and then 20 seconds one after another in the 2nd minute of the next turn. I don't care. You have this as proof https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttGOdv5uS1w, another 4 recordings loaded and 5 that were to be uploaded. All made in two weeks, so you can't say it was a coincidence.
Maybe you're right though, maybe they just synchronized perfectly for two weeks 14-16 hours a day.

by damgood Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:11 pm

Martin and Kenzu, you are insulting me and the aderanwars players at the lowest possible level. We have gathered information for a long time to be 100% sure that we are right, and yet you spit in our faces with bs. As I said, I see no reason playing in these circumstances.

by Admin Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:54 pm

Smog wrote:
Admin wrote:quote me when I said even once they share a pc?
I can't it was on chat

Here's the logs, i'm still waiting.
I will also be expecting an apology for calling me a liar, because you're really stepping low.
To try and make it appear as if you have caught me in something you will make up the stupidest lies possible and then come up with excuses when confronted by them.

Normally on any other forum you would have already gotten banned for this.

Spoiler:

by adrian Sat Nov 19, 2011 7:17 pm

so that was all about Smile

)

admin, you want me to show you how I can login on chat with 4 different accounts at the same time ( i`ll make 3 more just to preove my point and then I delete them all, including my own)?

you know...not all of us are rookies in programming and web mechanics.

just patethic....

I bet I can even make a pattern script to determine if their bank behaviour is random as you say, or it follows a pattern. I bet it will be above 70%. ( only the fact that kenzu banks first and sara second each time gives a big chance kenzu it at least multying, if not script using).

by Admin Sat Nov 19, 2011 7:28 pm

(2011.11.17 - 12:36:58) Smog: admin
(2011.11.17 - 12:37:04) Smog: you see micey there
(2011.11.17 - 12:37:07) Smog: right??

(2011.11.17 - 12:43:47) admin: do you want kenzu and sara together?
(2011.11.17 - 12:44:07) Vaga: yeah
(2011.11.17 - 12:44:11) Vaga: at the same time
(2011.11.17 - 12:44:29) Vaga: not one after the other

stop posting crap adrian, first vaga presented that as proof that micey is a real person, then he himself wanted to see them online and I got them online.

But your post was yet another proof from my side that you lot dont care how much effort I put up with listening

by adrian Sat Nov 19, 2011 7:33 pm

post all banking logs of those two in the last 3 weeks for all to see. I think that will end up all disputes.

later edit. Usullay i`d ask you to post cookies(for those who don`t know, I`m talking about browser cookies) too for each, but I think you`ll excuse me for not trusting you on that.

by adrian Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:14 pm

if i think it through, don`t bother. i rest my case since i`m gonna stop playing anyways.

by Admin Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:52 pm

remember to tell damgood that i'm still waiting for that apology, since you see him so often irl

by damgood Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:05 pm

Admin wrote:remember to tell damgood that i'm still waiting for that apology, since you see him so often irl

SERIOUSLY ? What for?

You should apologize to the players for insulting their intelligence.

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