Prices going up

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Prices going up

Post by Kenzu on Tue May 24, 2011 10:21 pm

It's nice to see prices rising on the galactic market. The increase in prices was long overdue.
Attack Turns at 30 million per AT, when it's easy to raid 2000 uu per hit and uu was traded at 300-400k was obviously too cheap and it's a wonder this price held for so many months.

I expect that the market prices will shift towards more realistic prices such as 400.000 or 450.000 per untrained, and around 70 million per AT.

What do you guys think?
What price do you expect to see on the GM in one month?
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Re: Prices going up

Post by kingkongfan1 on Wed May 25, 2011 2:37 pm

Kenzu wrote:It's nice to see prices rising on the galactic market. The increase in prices was long overdue.
Attack Turns at 30 million per AT, when it's easy to raid 2000 uu per hit and uu was traded at 300-400k was obviously too cheap and it's a wonder this price held for so many months.

I expect that the market prices will shift towards more realistic prices such as 400.000 or 450.000 per untrained, and around 70 million per AT.

What do you guys think?
What price do you expect to see on the GM in one month?

All I got to say is I am glad you are happy with it, cause I personally do not like it & have pretty much quit trying to buy anything from the market...
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Re: Prices going up

Post by curumo on Wed May 25, 2011 5:34 pm

Same here - these prices are killing the game. No way to farm profitably in this environment to stay competitive ...

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Re: Prices going up

Post by seaborgium on Wed May 25, 2011 5:53 pm

not with out $$
and its not like you can buy from others due to PTR.
This seems like a circle that people were talking about when PTR was introduced.
Mystake you sure you could make more $$ then admin?
It seems he has a good system already in place for it.

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Re: Prices going up

Post by curumo on Wed May 25, 2011 6:48 pm

Indeed Sea. You'd have to invest a bunch of $ to get to top ranks if you aren't among them already ... and even then it'd be far too ridiculous to be worth it ...

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Re: Prices going up

Post by Nimras on Thu May 26, 2011 3:51 pm

This game is so wrong now.

Its made so only people Paying has a change in the game.

Everyone else who can't pay are screwed and not allowed to be here.

Thank you admin for ruining your own game in your greed.

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Re: Prices going up

Post by seaborgium on Thu May 26, 2011 5:24 pm

Nimras could you please explain.
I can see a little of whatg ya saying but I don't see it fully

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Re: Prices going up

Post by Kenzu on Thu May 26, 2011 6:42 pm

kingkongfan1 wrote:
Kenzu wrote:It's nice to see prices rising on the galactic market. The increase in prices was long overdue.
Attack Turns at 30 million per AT, when it's easy to raid 2000 uu per hit and uu was traded at 300-400k was obviously too cheap and it's a wonder this price held for so many months.

I expect that the market prices will shift towards more realistic prices such as 400.000 or 450.000 per untrained, and around 70 million per AT.

What do you guys think?
What price do you expect to see on the GM in one month?

All I got to say is I am glad you are happy with it, cause I personally do not like it & have pretty much quit trying to buy anything from the market...

if you think AT and UU are too expensive I assume you are placing them for sale.
If you think it costs more than what it's worth, then you will benefit by selling it.

Nimras wrote:This game is so wrong now.

Its made so only people Paying has a change in the game.

Everyone else who can't pay are screwed and not allowed to be here.

Thank you admin for ruining your own game in your greed.

You make it sound like it's admin who is making the prices on the galactic market, but all bids are made by players.
Prices go up because there are more people buying UU and AT than people, who are selling them, and they will be increasing until equilibium, which is when supply meets demand.

The admin has absolutely no benefit from trading made in the galactic market.
So please explain why do you make such claims saying "Thank you admin for ruining your own game in your greed."
How did he ruin it?
What did he change?
And in what way is that greedy?
(I don't think he made any changes with the GM in months.)

I wonder how you can back up your claims.
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Re: Prices going up

Post by kingkongfan1 on Thu May 26, 2011 11:58 pm

Kenzu wrote:
kingkongfan1 wrote:
Kenzu wrote:It's nice to see prices rising on the galactic market. The increase in prices was long overdue.
Attack Turns at 30 million per AT, when it's easy to raid 2000 uu per hit and uu was traded at 300-400k was obviously too cheap and it's a wonder this price held for so many months.

I expect that the market prices will shift towards more realistic prices such as 400.000 or 450.000 per untrained, and around 70 million per AT.

What do you guys think?
What price do you expect to see on the GM in one month?

All I got to say is I am glad you are happy with it, cause I personally do not like it & have pretty much quit trying to buy anything from the market...

if you think AT and UU are too expensive I assume you are placing them for sale.
If you think it costs more than what it's worth, then you will benefit by selling it.

Kenzu your logic escapes me, the prices on the market are to high, I will not "BUY" from there, I "USE" my turns. why would I want to sell them? If I sold them what would I farm/raid/go to war with?... BTW don't bother answering, its not necessary cause I wont understand you anyway... no offense intended...
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Re: Prices going up

Post by Kenzu on Fri May 27, 2011 2:11 pm

If they cost more than what you can earn with farming, then you should sell them to make profit.
Since you use them to farm, it means they cost much less than what they can earn you.

As an example, imagine that everyone plays the game the same way as you and thinks the same way as you, then AT prices will keep on growing until you consider selling them.

If you raid 2200 UU from on average, and someone offers to pay you 2200 UU for 10 AT, you would obviously do it.

Currently:
UU costs 375.000 now
AT costs 67 million now

No one has the problem raiding 2000 uu per hit, thats 750 million kuwal for 10 AT.
Currently the person who bids highest to buy AT on GM has a bid going at 46,500,000 (and the best offer for selling is 98,989,000). Equilibrium is somewhere inbetween.

If market shifts AT price to 75 million, I will be still buying AT, because I can still make profit on that. If you don't want to buy them, it's your loss, and it means that you will be growing slower than me.

I have a question for you. How high should the AT price be, so that you would be willing to sell them?
And at what price are you currently willing to buy turns?
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Re: Prices going up

Post by kingkongfan1 on Fri May 27, 2011 6:53 pm

Kenzu wrote:If they cost more than what you can earn with farming, then you should sell them to make profit.
Since you use them to farm, it means they cost much less than what they can earn you.

As an example, imagine that everyone plays the game the same way as you and thinks the same way as you, then AT prices will keep on growing until you consider selling them.

If you raid 2200 UU from on average, and someone offers to pay you 2200 UU for 10 AT, you would obviously do it.
here is the difference between me & you, I wouldn't sell, what would I raid with? I like to "play" this game I rarely sell anything.

Currently:
UU costs 375.000 now
AT costs 67 million now

No one has the problem raiding 2000 uu per hit, thats 750 million kuwal for 10 AT.
Currently the person who bids highest to buy AT on GM has a bid going at 46,500,000 (and the best offer for selling is 98,989,000). Equilibrium is somewhere inbetween.

If market shifts AT price to 75 million, I will be still buying AT, because I can still make profit on that. If you don't want to buy them, it's your loss, and it means that you will be growing slower than me.

I have a question for you. How high should the AT price be, so that you would be willing to sell them?
And at what price are you currently willing to buy turns?

first of all I rarely farm, there is no profit to be had anymore...
secondly I mostly use them raiding as I can still find substancial profit in this respect...

Now to answer your question in bold... first part, I rarely if ever sell AT, & if I do then it is to someone I know, & not on the market. so it would be at a much lower rate than the market is selling, (I mean seriously if I am gonna screw up my PTR selling to a friend, then I am gonna give that friend the best deal he will get.)
Second part is real easy... no more than 25,000,000 tops, & that in my opinion is still way too much for AT's...

My final thoughts on this subject are this... for those players willing to pay the high costs of resources on the market, its their choice & right to do so & I wont stand in their way, I will not be paying the kind of prices being asked on the market...
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Re: Prices going up

Post by curumo on Fri May 27, 2011 8:36 pm

In my personal opinion I would say that 170 uu per 1 at or 400 m per 1 at should be the price. As Kong said - it's rarely profitable to farm in this game because most players have a disproportionate defense when compared with their economical power. 25 b def on a 10 m account? Really? That's like a 400 m income or so, or even less ... which means that they would have to be offline for more than 24 hours to be farmable ... Now be that as it may - I do agree that prices are too steep and that is rendering players from being active - they simply either can't afford to buy at or can't match the rates they can sell them at. Thus they sell them to a handful of players who can and stop being active...

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Re: Prices going up

Post by seaborgium on Fri May 27, 2011 9:03 pm

admin does have his hand indirectly on the prices in the market.
to use the market you have to have SS.

How do you get SS?

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Re: Prices going up

Post by Nomad on Fri May 27, 2011 10:21 pm

Kenzu could never understand someone actually wanting to "play" the game Kong. I wouldn't waste my time explaining it to him as the art is completely lost to him.

I would rather use my own turns and play then be forced to trade them to an enemy for profit. I still wish there was a way to trade with allies and alliance mates where your not punished for it, but Admin seems intent on it being that way.


Last edited by Nomad on Sun May 29, 2011 2:55 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added a n't)
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Re: Prices going up

Post by Admin on Fri May 27, 2011 10:31 pm

But you would be ok with having a feature where you can trade with, say people on peace setting only, however only restricted to using the current official rates (the ones you can see on the galactic market main page)?

My main issue is that there's 3 groups of people.
Those who will always use galactic market
Those who use galactic but would move toward private if such would exist
Those who will never use galactic and would only use private if such would exist

I would be ok with setting up a system for the 3rd group, however I wouldn't want to see people going away from the galactic.

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Re: Prices going up

Post by Nomad on Sat May 28, 2011 2:36 am

If you do it I will thank you, but I find more and more then things you say will be done never are. I hope this is different.

I have never been able to understand whats so hard about not wanting to be forced to sell to an enemy who will use those same resources against you.

I have never understood why you punish someone for trading with a friend, allie, or just someone you know. And YES I agree the prices should be set by the GM. All I have ever asked for was no punishment like whats in place now.
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Re: Prices going up

Post by kingkongfan1 on Sat May 28, 2011 4:17 am

Admin wrote:But you would be ok with having a feature where you can trade with, say people on peace setting only, however only restricted to using the current official rates (the ones you can see on the galactic market main page)?

My main issue is that there's 3 groups of people.
Those who will always use galactic market
Those who use galactic but would move toward private if such would exist
Those who will never use galactic and would only use private if such would exist

I would be ok with setting up a system for the 3rd group, however I wouldn't want to see people going away from the galactic.

one of the biggest reasons that I do not sell very much on the market, is I cannot stand the thought of selling someone I consider an enemy resources that they could use against me in a war, that just never made any sense to me... I would really like to see a system implemented where I could trade or sell to an ally without screwing up my PTR, that would be great...
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Re: Prices going up

Post by Kenzu on Sat May 28, 2011 10:21 am

kingkongfan1 wrote:
Kenzu wrote:If they cost more than what you can earn with farming, then you should sell them to make profit.
Since you use them to farm, it means they cost much less than what they can earn you.

As an example, imagine that everyone plays the game the same way as you and thinks the same way as you, then AT prices will keep on growing until you consider selling them.

If you raid 2200 UU from on average, and someone offers to pay you 2200 UU for 10 AT, you would obviously do it.
here is the difference between me & you, I wouldn't sell, what would I raid with? I like to "play" this game I rarely sell anything.

Currently:
UU costs 375.000 now
AT costs 67 million now

No one has the problem raiding 2000 uu per hit, thats 750 million kuwal for 10 AT.
Currently the person who bids highest to buy AT on GM has a bid going at 46,500,000 (and the best offer for selling is 98,989,000). Equilibrium is somewhere inbetween.

If market shifts AT price to 75 million, I will be still buying AT, because I can still make profit on that. If you don't want to buy them, it's your loss, and it means that you will be growing slower than me.

I have a question for you. How high should the AT price be, so that you would be willing to sell them?
And at what price are you currently willing to buy turns?

first of all I rarely farm, there is no profit to be had anymore...
secondly I mostly use them raiding as I can still find substancial profit in this respect...

Now to answer your question in bold... first part, I rarely if ever sell AT, & if I do then it is to someone I know, & not on the market. so it would be at a much lower rate than the market is selling, (I mean seriously if I am gonna screw up my PTR selling to a friend, then I am gonna give that friend the best deal he will get.)

You say it like PTR would be worsened by the same amount no matter what price you sell it to your friend, however in reality it changes only by the difference.
So if market price is 60 million and you sell him for 50 million, then you decrease your PTR by 10 million, if you sell it for 25 million, then you increase it by 35 million



Second part is real easy... no more than 25,000,000 tops, & that in my opinion is still way too much for AT's...

If you raid you can earn three times more than that. You said yourself you dont sell many of your AT, I assume it's mainly because you are selling at a too low price. If your buyers paid 65 million, you would surely sell more of your turns to them.

My final thoughts on this subject are this... for those players willing to pay the high costs of resources on the market, its their choice & right to do so & I wont stand in their way, I will not be paying the kind of prices being asked on the market...

Admin wrote:But you would be ok with having a feature where you can trade with, say people on peace setting only, however only restricted to using the current official rates (the ones you can see on the galactic market main page)?

My main issue is that there's 3 groups of people.
Those who will always use galactic market
Those who use galactic but would move toward private if such would exist
Those who will never use galactic and would only use private if such would exist

I would be ok with setting up a system for the 3rd group, however I wouldn't want to see people going away from the galactic.

The market prices are represented by the prices of resources, which have been sold in the last 7 days.
No one forbids others to trade using private market.
Often the claim is made that it worsens their PTR, and they claim that to trade without PTR worsening they must trade on GM, which they dont want to use, because they will trade with enemies.

However what I can say is this:
If there was an option that you trade only with allies on GM, then still it would be the best bids that will be traded first, and if the market is flawless (a lot of buyers and sellers), then the prices would resemble the prices on the galactic market, and people would end up trading at the same prices as GM.

This is possible already now through a different way, namely through private broker. Simply trade at market prices with your allies, and you achieve 2 things: PTR is not influenced, and you dont trade with enemies.
If you think the prices are too high, or too low, then you wouldnt be able to trade on an allied GM either, because you wouldn't accept the market prices, and if you ask for too much, then no one would buy your resources, and if you are willing to pay too little, then you wouldn't make a deal either.

In other words, trade on private broker at market prices and it will be similar like trading on an allied GM.

Nomad wrote:If you do it I will thank you, but I find more and more then things you say will be done never are. I hope this is different.

I have never been able to understand whats so hard about not wanting to be forced to sell to an enemy who will use those same resources against you.

I have never understood why you punish someone for trading with a friend, allie, or just someone you know. And YES I agree the prices should be set by the GM. All I have ever asked for was no punishment like whats in place now.

I tell you why.
Because if you allow others to decide who you trade with, you are giving them an opportunity to cheat the system.

As soon as there would be such thing, some people would think they can outsmart the game, and basically set only one person (or few people) as their allies, which could be a multi account or a person they sold resources for cash, and then "trade" with them at unreasonable prices, so they can feed them without influencing their PTR. This means they would bypass the PTR, which has the goal of detecting how much is a player feeding/ being fed by others.

kingkongfan1 wrote:
Admin wrote:But you would be ok with having a feature where you can trade with, say people on peace setting only, however only restricted to using the current official rates (the ones you can see on the galactic market main page)?

My main issue is that there's 3 groups of people.
Those who will always use galactic market
Those who use galactic but would move toward private if such would exist
Those who will never use galactic and would only use private if such would exist

I would be ok with setting up a system for the 3rd group, however I wouldn't want to see people going away from the galactic.

one of the biggest reasons that I do not sell very much on the market, is I cannot stand the thought of selling someone I consider an enemy resources that they could use against me in a war, that just never made any sense to me... I would really like to see a system implemented where I could trade or sell to an ally without screwing up my PTR, that would be great...

Please explain how you think it should work.

You realise that trading in the trade center is similar to GM, since you are trading resources that your enemies can trade in the trade center too. Example: If you sell uu to the trade center, then trade center will be selling uu at a lower price to everyone, including your enemies. This is important to know, because everyone uses the trade center, but I haven't heard that anyone would have a problem with it. GM is similar to trade center, in the way that GM is like trade center without a middle man, where each trade goes directly to respective players.
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Re: Prices going up

Post by kingkongfan1 on Sat May 28, 2011 1:24 pm

Kenzu wrote:
Please explain how you think it should work.

It has been explained before, but for your benefit I will explain it again... I set up a broker with another player using the going rates on the GM, make the trade, & my PTR is unaffected. that simple, unlike now where if I were to trade with someone my PTR is affected... Also you can prattle on about trades not affecting a players PTR, but I have seen the reality of the situation myself, hell without doing any trading or selling at all for several days prior, I went to bed one night with a PTR of 8.3%, got up the next morning to a PTR of 9.6%. never have gotten that figured out...

& please, do yourself a favor & stop making assumptions, all the assumptions you are making about me are totally wrong... I will say this one more time so maybe you can understand... I DO NOT SELL TURNS ON THE MARKET EVER!!! I might have sold a few when I started playing over a year ago, but none since, I will sell uu from time to time if the price is right & I need kewal to make upgrades to my account...

1 final thought here, you have been playing AW for at least 14-16 months longer than I have, there is nothing I can do to catch you in growth, you will always be 14-16 months ahead of me... not saying that is a bad thing, I just think it is rather tacky of you to rub it in my face that your accounts growth will always be ahead of mine...

I have no more to say on this subject...
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Re: Prices going up

Post by Nomad on Sat May 28, 2011 1:33 pm

For me it has nothing to do with PTR. Thats another issue you have wrong.


Its the fact it cost me a set % to do a private trade so I know who I am trading with. That's my issue with it. Any effect on PTR is just how it should be. Trading with a friend or allie should effect the PTR exactly the same. The problem is you should not be charged a % to trade with an allie over an enemy. Thats why I say you are punished because you are unfairly charged a penalty and the cost to trade is much greater.
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Re: Prices going up

Post by kingkongfan1 on Sat May 28, 2011 7:26 pm

Nomad wrote:For me it has nothing to do with PTR. Thats another issue you have wrong.


Its the fact it cost me a set % to do a private trade so I know who I am trading with. That's my issue with it. Any effect on PTR is just how it should be. Trading with a friend or allie should effect the PTR exactly the same. The problem is you should not be charged a % to trade with an allie over an enemy. Thats why I say you are punished because you are unfairly charged a penalty and the cost to trade is much greater.

so are you saying that trading on the GM "SHOULD" affect ones PTR? cause as of now, to my knowledge, there is no affect to ones PTR when trading on the GM... also you are correct about the %ages as well...
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Re: Prices going up

Post by Admin on Sat May 28, 2011 7:30 pm

Nomad wrote:Its the fact it cost me a set % to do a private trade so I know who I am trading with. That's my issue with it. Any effect on PTR is just how it should be. Trading with a friend or allie should effect the PTR exactly the same. The problem is you should not be charged a % to trade with an allie over an enemy. Thats why I say you are punished because you are unfairly charged a penalty and the cost to trade is much greater.
actually you should be charged for any benefits.

you do not get charged to trade with an ally over an enemy, you get charged for trading with a specific person rather than using a general market. since that makes sense. a centralized trading port costs less to maintain than many individual ports.

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Re: Prices going up

Post by Nomad on Sun May 29, 2011 2:52 am

Admin wrote:
Nomad wrote:Its the fact it cost me a set % to do a private trade so I know who I am trading with. That's my issue with it. Any effect on PTR is just how it should be. Trading with a friend or allie should effect the PTR exactly the same. The problem is you should not be charged a % to trade with an allie over an enemy. Thats why I say you are punished because you are unfairly charged a penalty and the cost to trade is much greater.
actually you should be charged for any benefits.

you do not get charged to trade with an ally over an enemy, you get charged for trading with a specific person rather than using a general market. since that makes sense. a centralized trading port costs less to maintain than many individual ports.

That makes no sense what so ever. There is no market where people do not set up shops to sell their own goods. Everyone charges their own prices and can refuse to sell to anyone they want to.

You have it set up so to sell to a "specific" person you take 2 penalties. 1 is the % cost, the other is the PTR hit if aplicable. Sorry but thats BS all the way around. There is no way to justify two guys walking down a market street who stop at the same vender and get charged 2 totally different rates.

But its your game and your going to do things your way. I am fine with the PTR charges, and would even say GM should effect PTR but I understand and appriciate your reasoning for doing so. I still feel it is complete BS that I have to lose a % and the trade partner does as well when all you want to do is not sell directly to an enemy.

You have yet to give a valid explination as to why you will not allow trade at the exact same rate for know traders and unknown. How can it possibly be exploited if the trade still effects PTR? What reason is there for not allowing it other then stubborn pride? Give me something to understand your line of thinking other then stopping trade between friends, and forcing you to sell to someone to use those resources against you.
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Re: Prices going up

Post by Kenzu on Sun May 29, 2011 7:48 am

Nomad wrote:
Admin wrote:
Nomad wrote:Its the fact it cost me a set % to do a private trade so I know who I am trading with. That's my issue with it. Any effect on PTR is just how it should be. Trading with a friend or allie should effect the PTR exactly the same. The problem is you should not be charged a % to trade with an allie over an enemy. Thats why I say you are punished because you are unfairly charged a penalty and the cost to trade is much greater.
actually you should be charged for any benefits.

you do not get charged to trade with an ally over an enemy, you get charged for trading with a specific person rather than using a general market. since that makes sense. a centralized trading port costs less to maintain than many individual ports.

That makes no sense what so ever. There is no market where people do not set up shops to sell their own goods. Everyone charges their own prices and can refuse to sell to anyone they want to.

You have it set up so to sell to a "specific" person you take 2 penalties. 1 is the % cost, the other is the PTR hit if aplicable. Sorry but thats BS all the way around. There is no way to justify two guys walking down a market street who stop at the same vender and get charged 2 totally different rates.

But its your game and your going to do things your way. I am fine with the PTR charges, and would even say GM should effect PTR but I understand and appriciate your reasoning for doing so. I still feel it is complete BS that I have to lose a % and the trade partner does as well when all you want to do is not sell directly to an enemy.

You have yet to give a valid explination as to why you will not allow trade at the exact same rate for know traders and unknown. How can it possibly be exploited if the trade still effects PTR? What reason is there for not allowing it other then stubborn pride? Give me something to understand your line of thinking other then stopping trade between friends, and forcing you to sell to someone to use those resources against you.

The % charge exists in the private market, same as having a fee in banking. You might know that some people use the private broker as a bank, either by keeping resources there for a day, or by sending them to a friend and then sending them back. The convenience of being able to have more cash on hand at once than what you could have with your bank could be one of the reasons for the % fee.

Same if you place a bid on the GM and then withdraw it without making a trade, you will also pay a % fee, up to 10% of the offer you made.

This is I believe the reason why % fee is paid in private broker and on withdrawing bids from GM.



And now lets look at PTR

As you know PTR measures feeding. What is feeding? Sending resources to others, or sending more resources of higher value than what you get back.
Obviously the reasoning should be that GM should also influence PTR, but assuming there is a strong competition one can argue that everyone trading there has an equal chance of making a good deal, which is basically the same as being fed, thus it's logical that removing PTR for GM was considered (and as you know GM trading doesnt influence your PTR, but it obviously still influences your account value)

Since there is no competition in private brokers, because you can agree with anyone on any price, with friends on a "friendly" (feeding) price, there must be PTR or else PTR becomes useless. Afterall most feeding happens through private brokers.

Intentional feeding through GM is also possible (although illegal), and at the same time harder, because there is a higher competition decreasing the spread for feeding, and also because bids are not activated immediately, which increases the chances of competitors to see the bid first and accept it.
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Re: Prices going up

Post by Nomad on Sun May 29, 2011 1:54 pm

Kenzu, why do you insist on repeating what others have already said?

I also hate to tell you but you can use the PTB as a bank and NEVER pay a fee.


Admin Martin, can you please respond since the question is aimed at you yet Kenzu seems to want to keep repeating already stated information in an attempt to create a response.


@ Kenzu specifically, since you are not Admin over main I ask you to please stop abusing your Admin powers by using your Admin account in a fashion that is not fair. When you speak outside of "AW2/RA" section or when you speak as a player you should use your player account so those who have you set to "foe" do not have to see your rambling. If it is required then let me know and I'll put "Admin Martin" in front of all my questions from now on so you will not be tempted to continue to abuse your powers as an admin.
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Nomad
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ID : WORD OF THE DAY
Hipocracy
hy·poc·ri·sy
Show Spelled[hi-pok-ruh-see]
–noun, plural -sies.

1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
2. the practice of professing standards, beliefs, etc, contrary to one's real character or actual behavior, esp the pretense of virtue and piety
3. a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude.

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Re: Prices going up

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