Farming "Fake" kuwal

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:

Nomad wrote:

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:

Nomad wrote:So we are alliance bashing now?

I'd just drop members down to 1, and then tagg all alliance members so they can farm inner alliance wise, and come together for wars.

Well aren't you a party pooper Why do you think someone would go to all of this trouble? I doubt you would

Don't be naive.

If I had an alliance with the largest size, largest member count, and the most to lose along as the most damage being recieved,,,,, Your darn tootin its exactly what I would do. If he makes it so you cant farm alliance mates, why would you accept losing 1/4 or more of the server as farms?

I mean lets be honest. If an alliance has 100 men, that 99 farms you just lost. Why would anyone NOT want to be alone so they can farm every other account in the game? You dont have to warry about a war from farming an alliance mate, but you do from everyone else.

Think about it.

I think you are being naive and over thinking about the bad while not thinking about how much good this update could bring. I don't care about inner alliance farming. Other people WILL be farming you as well. No matter how often you are hit. If I were an alliance leader and you were abusing your alliance power you better be prepared to war as I would consider you a threat to the game itself. Also why are you so worried about hits against you when they more than likely GIVE you MORE kuwal than you already started with. It does no harm. It adds activity and is only abusable if you choose to be an asshole and do such a thing. Who would want to ruin a game because the admin tried to add something that would add more activity and fun. Possibly even bringing in more players. You won't even give it a chance. Stop being so damn negative

Kenzu wrote:

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:

Nomad wrote:

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:

Nomad wrote:So we are alliance bashing now?

I'd just drop members down to 1, and then tagg all alliance members so they can farm inner alliance wise, and come together for wars.

Well aren't you a party pooper Why do you think someone would go to all of this trouble? I doubt you would

Don't be naive.

If I had an alliance with the largest size, largest member count, and the most to lose along as the most damage being recieved,,,,, Your darn tootin its exactly what I would do. If he makes it so you cant farm alliance mates, why would you accept losing 1/4 or more of the server as farms?

I mean lets be honest. If an alliance has 100 men, that 99 farms you just lost. Why would anyone NOT want to be alone so they can farm every other account in the game? You dont have to warry about a war from farming an alliance mate, but you do from everyone else.

Think about it.

I think you are being naive and over thinking about the bad while not thinking about how much good this update could bring. I don't care about inner alliance farming. Other people WILL be farming you as well. No matter how often you are hit. If I were an alliance leader and you were abusing your alliance power you better be prepared to war as I would consider you a threat to the game itself. Also why are you so worried about hits against you when they more than likely GIVE you MORE kuwal than you already started with. It does no harm. It adds activity and is only abusable if you choose to be an asshole and do such a thing. Who would want to ruin a game because the admin tried to add something that would add more activity and fun. Possibly even bringing in more players. You won't even give it a chance. Stop being so damn negative

In this world are a lot of weirdoes who try to ruin something, be it a game or anything else, even though they gain nothing from it.
There are for example hackers who waste their time to make useless viruses that harm your computer (And I am not talking about some viruses that collect email addresses or credit card info, I talk about some to the hacker useless viruses that simply delete files, slow down your pc or prevent your OS from working). There are people who go on forums only to spam and start flame wars, there are people who join games looking for ways how to ruin the game.

The life offers a lot of examples which teach us that if you give possibilities to the public to destroy/ruin something you have made, there will always be at least one guy, who will try to do it.

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:[21 Apr] 18:49 xxxx 17,382,717,612 Kuwal Stolen 10 1246 6426 13,718,736,000 21,264,845,031 details

this is an actual farm from my logs with a 22.5bil strike. With the update i would more than likely steal this amount (using current policies). 10% (on the lower scale) 1.7bil+. his losses were 1.6bil. he made kuwal from my hit using the new system technically. does this answer your question? also, i never called anyone an ass. just said only an ass would do such a thing .

I'm not saying your criticism isn't good as it is needed and can be helpful. All i'm saying is you look at the worst possible outcome (more than likely giving other people ideas of how to cheat the system). Every idea in the game can be abused to an extent. I will admit at least I am not sure how to fix the current problem you keep throwing out there if there even is a fix.

Nomad wrote:You can all call me negative and say I am out to ruin the game. Thats fine. I'll stop telling you how updates WILL be abused ahead of time. And they will be,,,, because its human nature. When something is not clearly defined as "wrong" and is allowed by game mechanics, people will test the effectiveness of every strategy avalible when faced with a superior strategy than their own, or they just become bored and start testing the limits in all areas. Some result in reports to fix bugs or ingame mechanics issues, others result in abuse and dicipline.

Nomad wrote:

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:[21 Apr] 18:49 xxxx 17,382,717,612 Kuwal Stolen 10 1246 6426 13,718,736,000 21,264,845,031 details

this is an actual farm from my logs with a 22.5bil strike. With the update i would more than likely steal this amount (using current policies). 10% (on the lower scale) 1.7bil+. his losses were 1.6bil. he made kuwal from my hit using the new system technically. does this answer your question? also, i never called anyone an ass. just said only an ass would do such a thing .

I'm not saying your criticism isn't good as it is needed and can be helpful. All i'm saying is you look at the worst possible outcome (more than likely giving other people ideas of how to cheat the system). Every idea in the game can be abused to an extent. I will admit at least I am not sure how to fix the current problem you keep throwing out there if there even is a fix.

now please give the example with a 20 bill defense as asked your hitting a def half your strike. By your example your proving Kenzu's point that smaller accounts will suffer greatly while larger accounts will feel less of a pinch.
ummm the acc was over 2x my size . and also attacking bigger players with bigger defenses means THEY will suffer more. You have it backwards.

I also notice you use an attack that was ungodly profitable. A 13 bill def holding 17 bill kewal should have been farmed along time ago. So examples more realistic are probably in order. If his income was in line with his def he would not have made a profit but would have suffered a lose. That's all I am saying.
That was with a massive strike tech. Obviously the profit would be greater on my acc than others. Also, I was only 2bil over the profit minimum for this person using the current farming policies. basically if you have lower strike tech than me then you will lose more kuwal, meaning that the kuwal out must be higher. this also results in more kuwal for the defender.

I'm not giving others ideas on "how" to cheat the system,,,, I'm telling admin exactly "How" the system will be cheated or manipulated sooner or later.
I can read. I know what you did. I just think it could be done more discreetly

@ Admin,,,,, I am asking again that you address this issue with the "foe" feature as you stated that you would. Please.

@ Kenzu
Your right in what you said.

@ all
Funny thing is I tell admin ahead of time how an abuser would use it so it can be fixed,,,,, tho I have never used any of the methods I tell Admin about. So the messenger gets skewered for telling how something is going to likely be abused, and the abuser gets nothing but the satisfaction of a job complete. I do not understand the reasoning or logic. what are you trying to say here?

There is a fine line between abuse, and stratagy using allowable ingame features. Lets just say for this example that this was put in play as suggested. Why would it be considered abuse to leave your alliance or go solo so you can farm every account in the game instead of losing 20, 30, or 60 farms. there is no problem with this. why would there be? I mean these accounts are going to be farmed,,,, they are meant to be farmed,,,, why limit yourself. I mean if your alliance had the largest incomes,,,, you would give up those free farms to players smaller then you? You would farm those with 1/2 the income of your alliance mates, and not farm your alliance mates for twice as much? Again. I do not understand the logic.
I never said push it through without fixing all the problems. I just don't believe that what you are saying is going to happen. I don't think alliance farming should be an issue here. Of course this can be used to an extent but not the way you are saying it will be. Of course this is just my opinion.

You can all call me negative and say I am out to ruin the game. That's fine. I'll stop telling you how updates WILL be abused ahead of time. And they will be,,,, because its human nature. When something is not clearly defined as "wrong" and is allowed by game mechanics, people will test the effectiveness of every strategy available when faced with a superior strategy than their own, or they just become bored and start testing the limits in all areas. Some result in reports to fix bugs or ingame mechanics issues, others result in abuse and dicipline.


@ Admin. See your PM please.

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:I can read. I know what you did. I just think it could be done more discreetly

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:
@ all
Funny thing is I tell admin ahead of time how an abuser would use it so it can be fixed,,,,, tho I have never used any of the methods I tell Admin about. So the messenger gets skewered for telling how something is going to likely be abused, and the abuser gets nothing but the satisfaction of a job complete. I do not understand the reasoning or logic. what are you trying to say here?

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:I never said push it through without fixing all the problems. I just don't believe that what you are saying is going to happen. I don't think alliance farming should be an issue here. Of course this can be used to an extent but not the way you are saying it will be. Of course this is just my opinion.

Admin wrote:

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:I can read. I know what you did. I just think it could be done more discreetly

That message is directed at me for 30-70% of the time, the other 70-30% it's directed at others.

This time it was directed at Nomad

Nomad wrote:
@ all
Funny thing is I tell admin ahead of time how an abuser would use it so it can be fixed,,,,, tho I have never used any of the methods I tell Admin about. So the messenger gets skewered for telling how something is going to likely be abused, and the abuser gets nothing but the satisfaction of a job complete. I do not understand the reasoning or logic. what are you trying to say here?

That people unfortunately lack the intelligence in some cases (i.e. if someone points out a flaw, dont go bash the person who pointed it out but look for a solution) and honesty in others,

I figured as much. I assumed he was talking about me

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:I never said push it through without fixing all the problems. I just don't believe that what you are saying is going to happen. I don't think alliance farming should be an issue here. Of course this can be used to an extent but not the way you are saying it will be. Of course this is just my opinion.

I am with king here, on one hand I dont think the alliance farming will be that much of a problem that it needs to get addressed. On the other hand, splitting up an alliance means you're losing out on communication effectiveness.
But again, by now we're at a speculation level, unless it's tested, we won't know. And even then we might not know until for a while into it

Admin wrote:test server, working is coming on AF so i'll throw in both

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:

Nomad wrote:

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:[21 Apr] 18:49 xxxx 17,382,717,612 Kuwal Stolen 10 1246 6426 13,718,736,000 21,264,845,031 details

this is an actual farm from my logs with a 22.5bil strike. With the update i would more than likely steal this amount (using current policies). 10% (on the lower scale) 1.7bil+. his losses were 1.6bil. he made kuwal from my hit using the new system technically. does this answer your question? also, i never called anyone an ass. just said only an ass would do such a thing .

I'm not saying your criticism isn't good as it is needed and can be helpful. All i'm saying is you look at the worst possible outcome (more than likely giving other people ideas of how to cheat the system). Every idea in the game can be abused to an extent. I will admit at least I am not sure how to fix the current problem you keep throwing out there if there even is a fix.

now please give the example with a 20 bill defense as asked your hitting a def half your strike. By your example your proving Kenzu's point that smaller accounts will suffer greatly while larger accounts will feel less of a pinch.
ummm the acc was over 2x my size . and also attacking bigger players with bigger defenses means THEY will suffer more. You have it backwards.bigger defense means more losses for them,,,,, it also means more losses for you,,, so no I do not have it backwards. Not to mention your hitting with a strike over the defense, what happens when you hit a def over your strike and your getting 3/4 or 1/2 the kewal? Again, it just seems to me the smaller guys will take more a beating then the larger.

I also notice you use an attack that was ungodly profitable. A 13 bill def holding 17 bill kewal should have been farmed along time ago. So examples more realistic are probably in order. If his income was in line with his def he would not have made a profit but would have suffered a lose. That's all I am saying.
That was with a massive strike tech. Obviously the profit would be greater on my acc than others. Also, I was only 2bil over the profit minimum for this person using the current farming policies. basically if you have lower strike tech than me then you will lose more kuwal, meaning that the kuwal out must be higher. this also results in more kuwal for the defender.so you think this example is common? I personally rarely see people with more then 1 bill out per 1 bill of defence. Thats all I am saying

I'm not giving others ideas on "how" to cheat the system,,,, I'm telling admin exactly "How" the system will be cheated or manipulated sooner or later.
I can read. I know what you did. I just think it could be done more discreetly Sorry, I call it like I see it. I don't sugar coat stuff, or try to hide underling issues. Short and blunt to a fault sometimes.

@ Admin,,,,, I am asking again that you address this issue with the "foe" feature as you stated that you would. Please.

@ Kenzu
Your right in what you said.

@ all
Funny thing is I tell admin ahead of time how an abuser would use it so it can be fixed,,,,, tho I have never used any of the methods I tell Admin about. So the messenger gets skewered for telling how something is going to likely be abused, and the abuser gets nothing but the satisfaction of a job complete. I do not understand the reasoning or logic. what are you trying to say here?I'm telling you what you do not want to hear, to stop someone from abusing an obvious exploit and your basicly getting grumpy with me,,,,, yet if it were exploited, and you directly effected you would be upset because it was not discovered and stopped before it could be used. The old "shoot the messanger" mentality.

There is a fine line between abuse, and stratagy using allowable ingame features. Lets just say for this example that this was put in play as suggested. Why would it be considered abuse to leave your alliance or go solo so you can farm every account in the game instead of losing 20, 30, or 60 farms. there is no problem with this. why would there be?i do not understand, your the one saying someone would be an asshole for doing it, and admin the one talking about creating ways to stop it??? so apparently I have misunderstood something since it appears you have done a 180 degree change in stance??? I mean these accounts are going to be farmed,,,, they are meant to be farmed,,,, why limit yourself. I mean if your alliance had the largest incomes,,,, you would give up those free farms to players smaller then you? You would farm those with 1/2 the income of your alliance mates, and not farm your alliance mates for twice as much? Again. I do not understand the logic.
I never said push it through without fixing all the problems. I just don't believe that what you are saying is going to happen. I don't think alliance farming should be an issue here. Of course this can be used to an extent but not the way you are saying it will be. Of course this is just my opinion.and you are entitled to it, and entitled to express it. Glad you do so because the more involved the better the outcome. You feel alliances wont farm their own, and I think they will. There is nothing wrong with that, we may both be right, or we may both be wrong, but atleast we put it out there from different perspectives and thats what is needed.

You can all call me negative and say I am out to ruin the game. That's fine. I'll stop telling you how updates WILL be abused ahead of time. And they will be,,,, because its human nature. When something is not clearly defined as "wrong" and is allowed by game mechanics, people will test the effectiveness of every strategy available when faced with a superior strategy than their own, or they just become bored and start testing the limits in all areas. Some result in reports to fix bugs or ingame mechanics issues, others result in abuse and dicipline.


@ Admin. See your PM please.

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:[22 Apr] 08:35 Whatamidoinghere 18,258,435,741 Kuwal Stolen 10 1680 7858 20,946,816,000 21,711,012,384 details

heres another example of how it helps the player when farmed (with a 20bil defense like asked). still made profit from the hit to cover the losses just saying

Admin wrote:

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:I can read. I know what you did. I just think it could be done more discreetly

That message is directed at me for 30-70% of the time, the other 70-30% it's directed at others.
actually that was a direct response to KoS

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:
@ all
Funny thing is I tell admin ahead of time how an abuser would use it so it can be fixed,,,,, tho I have never used any of the methods I tell Admin about. So the messenger gets skewered for telling how something is going to likely be abused, and the abuser gets nothing but the satisfaction of a job complete. I do not understand the reasoning or logic. what are you trying to say here?

That people unfortunately lack the intelligence in some cases (i.e. if someone points out a flaw, dont go bash the person who pointed it out but look for a solution) and honesty in others,

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:I never said push it through without fixing all the problems. I just don't believe that what you are saying is going to happen. I don't think alliance farming should be an issue here. Of course this can be used to an extent but not the way you are saying it will be. Of course this is just my opinion.

I am with king here, on one hand I dont think the alliance farming will be that much of a problem that it needs to get adressed. On the other hand, splitting up an alliance means you're losing out on communication effectiveness.if you dont think its a problem they why are you discussing ways to stop inner alliance farming? Just seems a signifigant contridiction?? As long as you are fine with it I am fine with it. I just want it out there from the start that the most active alliances will inner alliance farm, and then farm others. This means the largest and strongest and most active will be getting even more resources then before for less cost to them, It also means those alone, or in weaker alliances will be getting farmed and not being able to farm in return. As long as everyone is cool with that, and understands that it is a reality that may happen then lets go for it.
But again, by now we're at a speculation level, unless it's tested, we won't know. And even then we might not know until for a while into ithow very true

Nomad wrote:
I'm not giving others ideas on "how" to cheat the system,,,, I'm telling admin exactly "How" the system will be cheated or manipulated sooner or later.
I can read. I know what you did. I just think it could be done more discreetly Sorry, I call it like I see it. I don't sugar coat stuff, or try to hide underling issues. Short and blunt to a fault sometimes.

@ all
Funny thing is I tell admin ahead of time how an abuser would use it so it can be fixed,,,,, tho I have never used any of the methods I tell Admin about. So the messenger gets skewered for telling how something is going to likely be abused, and the abuser gets nothing but the satisfaction of a job complete. I do not understand the reasoning or logic. what are you trying to say here?I'm telling you what you do not want to hear, to stop someone from abusing an obvious exploit and your basically getting grumpy with me,,,,, yet if it were exploited, and you directly effected you would be upset because it was not discovered and stopped before it could be used. The old "shoot the messenger" mentality.

There is a fine line between abuse, and strategy using allowable ingame features. Lets just say for this example that this was put in play as suggested. Why would it be considered abuse to leave your alliance or go solo so you can farm every account in the game instead of losing 20, 30, or 60 farms. there is no problem with this. why would there be?i do not understand, your the one saying someone would be an asshole for doing it, and admin the one talking about creating ways to stop it??? so apparently I have misunderstood something since it appears you have done a 180 degree change in stance???I was reffering to the bold part. Leaving an alliance is a choice. People can leave any alliance they please if they think its best for their acc. That doesnt bother me I mean these accounts are going to be farmed,,,, they are meant to be farmed,,,, why limit yourself. I mean if your alliance had the largest incomes,,,, you would give up those free farms to players smaller then you? You would farm those with 1/2 the income of your alliance mates, and not farm your alliance mates for twice as much? Again. I do not understand the logic.
I never said push it through without fixing all the problems. I just don't believe that what you are saying is going to happen. I don't think alliance farming should be an issue here. Of course this can be used to an extent but not the way you are saying it will be. Of course this is just my opinion.and you are entitled to it, and entitled to express it. Glad you do so because the more involved the better the outcome. You feel alliances wont farm their own, and I think they will. There is nothing wrong with that, we may both be right, or we may both be wrong, but atleast we put it out there from different perspectives and thats what is needed.I agree. I wish more people would voice their opinions on the matter.

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:[22 Apr] 08:35 Whatamidoinghere 18,258,435,741 Kuwal Stolen 10 1680 7858 20,946,816,000 21,711,012,384 details

heres another example of how it helps the player when farmed (with a 20bil defense like asked). still made profit from the hit to cover the losses just saying

Thank you, this example is a much better one. Now you state you made a profit,,, but did he? Was the kewal gained from the hit enough to cover his losses? After all you state its "good" for the defender since he will gain more then he loses. Is that the case here?
yes it is and yes he did (though it was a slight one a profit is a profit)
18,258,435,741 x 10% (lowest value) = 1,825,843,574 kuwal the DEFENDER made from the attack. He had MAs. 1680 x 947,000 (150,000+275,000+522,000)=1,590,960,000. 1,825,843,574 -1,590,960,000 = 234,883,574 kuwal he didn't have before the hit.

I am just asking, because I do not know but want to understand the full extent of what this possible update can mean.
well now you know . of course this is not the case all the time (at least with the 10% base value)

admin wrote:

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:I never said push it through without fixing all the problems. I just don't believe that what you are saying is going to happen. I don't think alliance farming should be an issue here. Of course this can be used to an extent but not the way you are saying it will be. Of course this is just my opinion.

I am with king here, on one hand I dont think the alliance farming will be that much of a problem that it needs to get addressed. On the other hand, splitting up an alliance means you're losing out on communication effectiveness.if you don't think its a problem they why are you discussing ways to stop inner alliance farming? Just seems a significant contradiction?? As long as you are fine with it I am fine with it. I just want it out there from the start that the most active alliances will inner alliance farm, and then farm others. This means the largest and strongest and most active will be getting even more resources then before for less cost to them, It also means those alone, or in weaker alliances will be getting farmed and not being able to farm in return. As long as everyone is cool with that, and understands that it is a reality that may happen then lets go for it. just because it probably will not be a problem does not mean it can't be one. i think he is trying to make everyone happy and possibly find a fix to the issue. (the oh so elusive fix)
But again, by now we're at a speculation level, unless it's tested, we won't know. And even then we might not know until for a while into ithow very true admin said it will be released on the test server whenever he gets AF done

Manleva wrote:I can't see that Fake Kuwal is going to have any of the impact that is desired.
In fact all that I can see it doing is to introduce more Kuwal into the game.

If the Fake Kuwal is useless to the player that has it then it is of no value to them. It will cause them to be farmed and they will suffer losses so to compensate they will only increase their defense.
wow. It DOES and WILL have value to them if they choose to actually be active and farm. I fail to see your point. No matter what peoples defenses are they WILL get farmed. Have you seriously read any of this or are you just typing blindly?

For those who currently manage their income so that they are not farmed then you are going to force them into a situation where they have no control at all.
exactly. thus adding more activity supposedly. and to be perfectly honest it will not effect them in the least about 80% of the time.

In many ways I think your tinkering with one little area in the hope that it will address one small issue rather than looking at the overall picture and assessing what the full impact will be.

I think that there are opportunities to look at a much wider range of changes that would address a lot more underlying issues than just this one small issue.

Most of the issues currently relate to how players are working with the current game mechanics and not the mechanics themselves. I think some changes are needed in a number of areas to address these issues. The challenge is to make changes that will not make the game unbalanced. Also it needs to be realized that not all issues can be or should be dealt with.
how about instead of saying the game is in need of change (as this would clearly do) and actually make some suggestions. yes i am bashing you because you come into this topic with apparently almost no knowledge of what exactly this is meant to do or what has already been said. What I see is, "this is bad. we should not change this" instead of actually adding some reasoning to back up your statements

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:

Manleva wrote:I can't see that Fake Kuwal is going to have any of the impact that is desired.
In fact all that I can see it doing is to introduce more Kuwal into the game.

If the Fake Kuwal is useless to the player that has it then it is of no value to them. It will cause them to be farmed and they will suffer losses so to compensate they will only increase their defense.
wow. It DOES and WILL have value to them if they choose to actually be active and farm. I fail to see your point. No matter what peoples defenses are they WILL get farmed. Have you seriously read any of this or are you just typing blindly?
If the player with the Fake income cannot use it then it has no Value to them. Yes I have seen the suggestion that when farmed the defender would get some Kuwal as well. And Yes this does mean that everyone will be farmed.
To me this means that to induce more Farming activity More Kuwal will be injected into the game. It also undervalues Farming and makes farming an inevitability that changing one of the major features that leads to War.

For those who currently manage their income so that they are not farmed then you are going to force them into a situation where they have no control at all.
exactly. thus adding more activity supposedly. and to be perfectly honest it will not effect them in the least about 80% of the time.
As someone who manages his income so that he is not farmed I resent being put into a situation over which I can have no control just because a few others don't like the current situation. And before you say something else I an used to playing where Farming is a way of life where you must Farm to grow and where Profitable farming is not the a requirement.

In many ways I think your tinkering with one little area in the hope that it will address one small issue rather than looking at the overall picture and assessing what the full impact will be.

I think that there are opportunities to look at a much wider range of changes that would address a lot more underlying issues than just this one small issue.

Most of the issues currently relate to how players are working with the current game mechanics and not the mechanics themselves. I think some changes are needed in a number of areas to address these issues. The challenge is to make changes that will not make the game unbalanced. Also it needs to be realized that not all issues can be or should be dealt with.
how about instead of saying the game is in need of change (as this would clearly do) and actually make some suggestions. yes i am bashing you because you come into this topic with apparently almost no knowledge of what exactly this is meant to do or what has already been said. What I see is, "this is bad. we should not change this" instead of actually adding some reasoning to back up your statements

I am working on some suggestions but they will not be posted in this thread as they are a very different approach. I simply posted a view here that I felt this was not the best approach and wider thinking was required. I will post my suggestions when RL allows which will be in the near future. Have some patients because I think you may actually like some of them.

Kenzu wrote:Why is fake kuwal good for the game:
-There will be slightly more farming. People who like to farm other active players (a small minority) will like it.

Reason where it's not clear if positive effect outweights the negative:
-You might even convince a small number of people, who didn't farm before (because they dont like farming) to do it, because it will pay off a lot (and they will do it because it pays off, not because they like it. It's a good idea to force your playing style on other players. It will make them more happy! *sarcasm*)
If I'm not mistaken isn't that what you do in RA? Since you made the game and are playing it I think you hardly have the right to say anything about forcing their own playing style on others .

Why is fake kuwal bad for the game:
-INFLATION
More kuwal means there will be a higher inflation. If players produce little fake kuwal, then there will be no point in the update, if they produce a considerable amount, then the inflation will get much higher. Needless to say that inflation is very harmful to the game and we should try hard to lower it. Creating fake kuwal is like pouring gasoline into the fire.

Inflation is already high in Aderan Wars, if this update produces 1 kuwal for each 1 kuwal our income produce, then this will raise the inflation by so much that we can already join the club with other crappy games with hyperinflation.

-People who get farmed even though they have big defenses will get upset that they get farmed (a majority of players.)
No shit kenzu. Well excuse me for wanting to actually play the game instead of just logging in and banking all the time.

-Those who get farmed because of this will be also upset that their defense is damaged. If their defense is not damaged, then it will look absurd that an attacker loses units while defenders loses nothing.
So what do you propose to fix it? I think admin has already come up with a decent idea himself.

-Players do what they want, and even if you implement the fake kuwal, many people who didnt farm actives will simply not do it because that's not how they want to play the game, and those people who like to farm actives already do it.
Well you snooze you lose. Oh yes, I would love to be equal with someone who chooses to farm inactives all the time while. It wouldn't be fair if someone got ahead somehow

-No matter what you do, majority of players will do whatever they can to prevent being farmed. If it means more def, so be it, but if you make an update that prevents them from being safe, they will get pissed.
Stop repeating yourself

-This update will result in a bigger gap in growing between people who farm actives and people who do not. Not everyone is ready to spend more time on Aderan Wars on farming. I personally don't find farming enjoyable at all and do it only to prevent others from getting stronger than me. Some players if not most will even consider that this update forces them to waste their time on things they don't like. Farming is only a small part of the game, don't try to make it into somthing bigger than what it actually is.

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The only reasons why there is as much farming as there is and not more, is because many people don't want to farm actives. Either because it takes too much time, or it's not their thing. And the second reason is because people try hard to prevent getting farmed even a single time and build big defenses. You can't change how people think.
Just so you know. Farming in this game absolutely sucks. There is maybe a total of 15 worthwhile active farms every day split up between ~4 people.

And not to forget the most important problem that fake kuwal brings:
HIGHER INFLATION

Inflation is the biggest problem of all. If you want to convince players to farm more, then think of an update that doesnt increase inflation, preferably one that even lowers inflation.

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:

Kenzu wrote:Why is fake kuwal good for the game:
-There will be slightly more farming. People who like to farm other active players (a small minority) will like it.

Reason where it's not clear if positive effect outweights the negative:
-You might even convince a small number of people, who didn't farm before (because they dont like farming) to do it, because it will pay off a lot (and they will do it because it pays off, not because they like it. It's a good idea to force your playing style on other players. It will make them more happy! *sarcasm*)
If I'm not mistaken isn't that what you do in RA? Since you made the game and are playing it I think you hardly have the right to say anything about forcing their own playing style on others .

Not at all, the way it works on RA is that if you have a proper defense, and bank at least once per day, then you never have more than 48 turns of kuwal out to be stolen. (And you steal only 50% of all kuwal a player has.) What this basically means is that if your defense causes more losses than half a day of your income, then no one will attack you (5% trained in defense is usually enough in RA.)

The difference between main, and RA is such that in main there were players playing years before this update has been even mentioned on the forums, while the farming system on RA started to exist before people started playing the game.

Why is fake kuwal bad for the game:
-INFLATION
More kuwal means there will be a higher inflation. If players produce little fake kuwal, then there will be no point in the update, if they produce a considerable amount, then the inflation will get much higher. Needless to say that inflation is very harmful to the game and we should try hard to lower it. Creating fake kuwal is like pouring gasoline into the fire.

Inflation is already high in Aderan Wars, if this update produces 1 kuwal for each 1 kuwal our income produce, then this will raise the inflation by so much that we can already join the club with other crappy games with hyperinflation.

-People who get farmed even though they have big defenses will get upset that they get farmed (a majority of players.)
No shit kenzu. Well excuse me for wanting to actually play the game instead of just logging in and banking all the time.
If players want to remain able to defend their kuwal, then no one should take this right from them, just like no one should take your right to farm.

-Those who get farmed because of this will be also upset that their defense is damaged. If their defense is not damaged, then it will look absurd that an attacker loses units while defenders loses nothing.
So what do you propose to fix it? I think admin has already come up with a decent idea himself.
First of all I don't think there is a problem to fix. I believe the farming system is very well already. I actually think that a problem is arising in a different area, namely too little losses for players who have superior advantage over new players simply because of high tech. While I believe they must have an advantage, I don't think it's ok if someone attacks with 300%, while a small players has to defend with 100%.

If you want more farming that hard, you could lower the losses for farming, so that people need to build more defenses, and increase weapon prices (maybe double them) so that instead of people ending up training 20% into defense, they still keep only 5-10%, but it costs much more to build weapons, thus they must invest much more heavily into defense if they dont want to be farmed, thus there will be more farms, as some will not want to risk losing it in wars.

-Players do what they want, and even if you implement the fake kuwal, many people who didnt farm actives will simply not do it because that's not how they want to play the game, and those people who like to farm actives already do it.
Well you snooze you lose. Oh yes, I would love to be equal with someone who chooses to farm inactives all the time while. It wouldn't be fair if someone got ahead somehow

-No matter what you do, majority of players will do whatever they can to prevent being farmed. If it means more def, so be it, but if you make an update that prevents them from being safe, they will get pissed.
Stop repeating yourself

-This update will result in a bigger gap in growing between people who farm actives and people who do not. Not everyone is ready to spend more time on Aderan Wars on farming. I personally don't find farming enjoyable at all and do it only to prevent others from getting stronger than me. Some players if not most will even consider that this update forces them to waste their time on things they don't like. Farming is only a small part of the game, don't try to make it into somthing bigger than what it actually is.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The only reasons why there is as much farming as there is and not more, is because many people don't want to farm actives. Either because it takes too much time, or it's not their thing. And the second reason is because people try hard to prevent getting farmed even a single time and build big defenses. You can't change how people think.
Just so you know. Farming in this game absolutely sucks. There is maybe a total of 15 worthwhile active farms every day split up between ~4 people.
It "sucks" for you, but not for those who don't get farmed, they have chosen not to be farmed by investing heavily into defense.

And not to forget the most important problem that fake kuwal brings:
HIGHER INFLATION

Inflation is the biggest problem of all. If you want to convince players to farm more, then think of an update that doesnt increase inflation, preferably one that even lowers inflation.

Kenzu wrote:So please tell me how much fake kuwal did you want an active player to produce in terms of % of his income.