The Crusade of Vengeance

mocks seaborgium with love

Kenzu why all the double standards all off a sudden.

It wasn't fair for TIE to fight Muj because of the population differences, TIE bigger then MuJ.

So to make it fair Vis WR Muj Vrs TIE means TOC 475 million > 320 odd mil

Now TC comes in and you scream unfair again.

You still have the number according to alliance number 98 to 48 so yous till have your ege by be beign able to outproduce in UU wich u were bragging about earlier as the better way to build a better acct.

Kenzu you made this bed by entering a fight you had no real grounds to. But your deep and under hate for TIE cused you to get involved. Your saying you never would have jumped in had we talked to you longer then a day. Were dose it say in TOC your the supreme leader and control very thing Muj dose it? IT dosen't! You try being the "good guy" with talks bout peace but you tried slip the dagger in an it back fired.

Muj was preparing for war smogs on comments about casta leaving because they didn't strike first proved it.

Thanks TM for helping balance the scales of an UNJUST WR and VIS intervention

I would ask Kenzu to clarify his stance on whether or not he actually accepts that alliances should take responsibility for their members.

If he accepts that alliances SHOULD take responsibility for their actions - then after a week+ of trying to get compensation back from Mujengan for the actions of one of their members via peaceful means (only to be ignored/repeatedly told where to go), Kenzu really can't complain TIE hit Mujengan or pretend that the attack on Mujengan was unprevoked & a unjustified hostile act by TIE.

This would mean World Republic & VIS's intervention, based on that, would be wrong and in effect would be supporting Mujengan's unfair stance. In such an event.... does Kenzu offer an apology for the intervention of VIS/WR into this war & what gesture is he prepared to make to at least signal in hindsight, he made a mistake which has cost TIE & those of TOC who placed their trust in him, literally millions of UU & trillions of resources?

Kenzu.. I m not asking for a major gesture, just a gesture that you accept you made the wrong decision which has cost several dozen people (TOC & TIE) a lot of resources as a result... as well as hopefully putting inplace measures to prevent such a mistake ever happening again....

Kenzu.. if your genuinely interested in peace with The Imperium I would ask you get back to me on the above.

Thanks

superkingtsob wrote:mocks seaborgium with love

Kenzu why all the double standards all off a sudden.

It wasn't fair for TIE to fight Muj because of the population differences, TIE bigger then MuJ.

So to make it fair Vis WR Muj Vrs TIE means TOC 475 million > 320 odd mil

Now TC comes in and you scream unfair again.

You still have the number according to alliance number 98 to 48 so yous till have your ege by be beign able to outproduce in UU wich u were bragging about earlier as the better way to build a better acct.

Kenzu you made this bed by entering a fight you had no real grounds to. But your deep and under hate for TIE cused you to get involved. Your saying you never would have jumped in had we talked to you longer then a day. Were dose it say in TOC your the supreme leader and control very thing Muj dose it? IT dosen't! You try being the "good guy" with talks bout peace but you tried slip the dagger in an it back fired.

Muj was preparing for war smogs on comments about casta leaving because they didn't strike first proved it.

Thanks TM for helping balance the scales of an UNJUST WR and VIS intervention

player numbers mean nothing.
You can have 10 players with 100.000 population and 10.000 UP and they can do nothing against a player with 20.000.000 population 200% techs and 40.000 UP.
Currently TIE+TM have better technology, more population, more income, more UP, more military. So the war is completely unfair.
Before, when you had better technology, better experienced and more active players, but less income and less UP, it was much more fair than now.

Also it was TIE which started the violence, and ian always claimed superiority over TOC, so why do you say it's unfair if ian made it look like TIE is winning the war?
When Imperium was weaker you could have proposed a peace treaty.
Now that TOC is weaker we propose a peace treaty.

I played a role in the prevention of Mujengan attacking TIE. Had they attacked, WR would cancel the mutual defense pact with Mujengan.
TIE attacked instead, and since we had MDP, we obviously joined in to defend our allies. There are no double standards.

ian wrote:I would ask Kenzu to clarify his stance on whether or not he actually accepts that alliances should take responsibility for their members.

If he accepts that alliances SHOULD take responsibility for their actions - then after a week+ of trying to get compensation back from Mujengan for the actions of one of their members via peaceful means (only to be ignored/repeatedly told where to go), Kenzu really can't complain TIE hit Mujengan or pretend that the attack on Mujengan was unprevoked & a unjustified hostile act by TIE.

This would mean World Republic & VIS's intervention, based on that, would be wrong and in effect would be supporting Mujengan's unfair stance. In such an event.... does Kenzu offer an apology for the intervention of VIS/WR into this war & what gesture is he prepared to make to at least signal in hindsight, he made a mistake which has cost TIE & those of TOC who placed their trust in him, literally millions of UU & trillions of resources?

Kenzu.. I m not asking for a major gesture, just a gesture that you accept you made the wrong decision which has cost several dozen people (TOC & TIE) a lot of resources as a result... as well as hopefully putting inplace measures to prevent such a mistake ever happening again....

Kenzu.. if your genuinely interested in peace with The Imperium I would ask you get back to me on the above.

Thanks

World Republic agrees that from now on alliances are responsible for the actions of their members.

Regarding the stars issue. I'd like to know how many missions have been made against him and how much he has lost in total.

Kenzu wrote:After being attacked by Marauders we launched a counter offensive against them, making a surgical strike against many Marauder members.
Five of them have been massed to less than 2 bill defense.

LOL Kenzu nice to see your not hitting but making others do the work.

Ohh and i aren't under 2bill def yet .

Anyway Kenzu you remember our talk on MSN?

Now i will with the biggest laugh say I TOLD YOU SO AND I WAS RIGHT.

You chance your mind, word, honour and thoughts in a second if its the best way to safe your sorry ASS.

Here you see your all of the sudden could get in problem and you chance what you believe and think.

When i talked to you about the ROBERT vs STAR issue then you thought that offcourse Muj should not compensate anything and i was very wrong and mean by claiming your wrong and full of yourself and doublestandard in the worst way ohh and a lier.

Now because WE join because WE as I TOLD you DO take responsebility of our MEMBERS and because ITS clear in our POLICY thought you had no rights joining in the WAR between Muj and TIE because Muj started the war. And now what do you do? We join you chance your mind NOW Muj should have COMPENSATED now you want out lol.

Ohh and what find more funny is you think TM joined because of issues with WR when we clearly joined for one reason WE cant accept WR and VIS hit a alliance for DEFENDING them self against another ALLIANCE that trained build and protected a MEMBER so that member could hit a TIE member and DELETE so Muj didn't have to pay compensations lol.

Anyway all new players welcome to the world of Kenzu what he says is a lie because he will at any second chance what he says and mean if it is the best solution for him self that is, if it does not affect him self then he will not care, which he proves again and again anyone else means nothing to him.

Anyway Kenzu i am just happy you finally realised that your responsible for your members because before you did you could help protect people so they could build up and destroy someone else and then delete this ended now.

Kenzu wrote:
player numbers mean nothing.
You can have 10 players with 100.000 population and 10.000 UP and they can do nothing against a player with 20.000.000 population 200% techs and 40.000 UP.
Currently TIE+TM have better technology, more population, more income, more UP, more military. So the war is completely unfair.
Before, when you had better technology, better experienced and more active players, but less income and less UP, it was much more fair than now.

Also it was TIE which started the violence, and ian always claimed superiority over TOC, so why do you say it's unfair if ian made it look like TIE is winning the war?
When Imperium was weaker you could have proposed a peace treaty.
Now that TOC is weaker we propose a peace treaty.

I played a role in the prevention of Mujengan attacking TIE. Had they attacked, WR would cancel the mutual defense pact with Mujengan.
TIE attacked instead, and since we had MDP, we obviously joined in to defend our allies. There are no double standards.

ian wrote:I would ask Kenzu to clarify his stance on whether or not he actually accepts that alliances should take responsibility for their members.

If he accepts that alliances SHOULD take responsibility for their actions - then after a week+ of trying to get compensation back from Mujengan for the actions of one of their members via peaceful means (only to be ignored/repeatedly told where to go), Kenzu really can't complain TIE hit Mujengan or pretend that the attack on Mujengan was unprevoked & a unjustified hostile act by TIE.

This would mean World Republic & VIS's intervention, based on that, would be wrong and in effect would be supporting Mujengan's unfair stance. In such an event.... does Kenzu offer an apology for the intervention of VIS/WR into this war & what gesture is he prepared to make to at least signal in hindsight, he made a mistake which has cost TIE & those of TOC who placed their trust in him, literally millions of UU & trillions of resources?

Kenzu.. I m not asking for a major gesture, just a gesture that you accept you made the wrong decision which has cost several dozen people (TOC & TIE) a lot of resources as a result... as well as hopefully putting inplace measures to prevent such a mistake ever happening again....

Kenzu.. if your genuinely interested in peace with The Imperium I would ask you get back to me on the above.

Thanks

World Republic agrees that from now on alliances are responsible for the actions of their members.

Regarding the stars issue. I'd like to know how many missions have been made against him and how much he has lost in total.

You still havn't clearly answered ian at all key word is from now on.

But in your post in previosu discusion you stated a allaince with a more members is better. See Qoute below
You guya had the high population prior to TM entering there for the higher eco:

Kenzu wrote:
Please consider that if there are 2 alliances with equal population, where one alliance has 5 times more members than the other, it doesnt mean that the one which has higher average population size is better.
There are two reasons why this isnt true:

1) it's unlikely that if one alliance has say 20 members and the other one 100, that the populations will be spread out evenly. It's likely that top 20 members of the 100 member alliance will have maybe 70 or 80% population of the whole alliance.

2) 100 members produce 5 times more attack turns than 20 members, and total alliance up has a much higher potential, because it's much easier for each of the 100 members to reach 10.000 up than for the 20 members in the other alliance reach 50.000 up each.

Peace treaties are never made from a position of weakness. I actual think we were in the position of strength bcz we had way less to lose then the rest of u guy. You were a target rich environment. In this type of game i learned the smaller alliance will win a longer war due to them having the following:

Smaller side has more enemies to farm
Smaller side has less to lose after the initial salvos then he larger side bcz not every one on the bigger side can win
Smaller side has more and better communication

Wow ian rubbing off on me with my longer posts lol

Kenzu.. if this was any other game I would agree with you - a handful of elite/better players can take on more numerous less-good players.

TIE has better techs, better army sizes per player and more experience per player than T.O.C... but for every player we had in our alliance, there was 3.7 players in T.O.C. For every 1 TIE player involved in attacking/hitting back against TOC... there was 2 TOC players involved in attacking/hitting TIE.

2 Words: Supply Turns. It is in this regard - Supply Turns - which TOC's advantage made the fight unfair.

Our techs and experience are utterly irrelevant if we are unable to actually attack T.O.C back.

TIE's war reserves have not once in this war been depleted or neared depletion - our strikes have had to be launched based solely on Supply Turns. Or more specifically... getting the necessary players together so someone can kill a defence (uses very little ST) and then having someone with both a sufficient strike to hunt assassins AND enough Supply Turns.

Its in that regard - Supply Turns - that T.O.C had a huge advantage. By sheer weight of numbers.... any fight against TOC by TIE would be epically difficult and unfair.

TIE is probably the better quality force on the game compared to T.O.C. We kill far more than we loose and often kill more than we loose even when getting massed... we have been consistently outfighting you on a daily basis with the only exception being when you massed Evil_Genius - who has since been removed from TIE for gross incompetence.

But the only reason that is the case is in large part due TOC incompetence.. You have vast resources and a vast amount of players.... yet you don't really know how to use them to their full potential. Only a fraction of TOC works together as a team and is involved in actually fighting - the rest remain isolated as individuals.

By all accounts you should have buried The Imperium within the first week of this war by sheer weight of numbers and the amount of resources you could bring to bare against us. The fact you haven't is due to your inability to get more than a small portion of TOC involved in the war & the obvious divisions within TOC between your "older" players and newer generation of players.

That however does not make it a fair fight. TIE's held you back by sheer determination, better techs, more experience, better team work & careful use of what capabilities we have... helped along by TOC incompetence when it comes to actually working fully as a empire & team.

But you have a huge resource, army size, economic and numerical advantage over TIE that should have been decisive. Now that TM is involved the war is a far more fairer one. If the war is "unfair" in anyway... it will be due to TOC inability to properly utilize its members and what it has as a team, as opposed to a massive TIE-TM superiority over you.

You still have a numerical advantage in active members and outproduce TIE-TM in supply turns, attack turns & market turns. That should go a long way to offsetting TIE-TM's economic advantage... if TOC can reach its proper potential.

As for Stars: The logs have long since vanished unfortunately. But I think it was something like 30k weapons & 100k defence soldiers/spies.

##########################################################################

If you want a real-life comparison of how this war was before TM intervened: The Finland-Russian war of 1939. Russia should have steam-rolled them with superior numbers and resources.... yet didn't in large part due to Finnish determination & skill coupled with the Red-Army being massively incompetent as a result of the purges of the officers and NCO's which had taken place under Stalin.

Give Kenzu credit he has stuck to the same argument. He said that TOC was better then TIE due to techs, pop and production and etc. Now that its TIE+TM vs TOC, he is saying the same thing. Cept he is ready to call it quits due to that. Where TIE didn't they knew they were out manned/out gunned.

Also it doesn't matter if there were 10m of stars' units destroyed in a hostile attack or 1. What matters is the principle and under which our efforts to negotiate a solution was refused and ignored. That is a fact. It's indisputable.

And yes, we knew we would be outgunned and outmanned. We didn't care. It was to prove a point. I sacced my account proving that point and when it comes to this point I will GLADLY do it again. 4 mill units and 1.5 T kuwal (my total losses) is a small price to pay for sticking up for my friends and alliance mates.

TM are a honorable bunch. They would NEVER intervene if they didn't think their cause is just. And in this case it is. No word twisting will change that.

Rob attacked stars and Muj refused to take responsibility for their member.
In turn we massed Muj.
Muj hit back and there was war.
WR and VIS joined for their reasons on Muj side, for which they believed were justified and unbalanced the war.
We didn't ask to stop the war and the war continued.
TM joined for their reasons on TIE side, for which they believe were justified and balanced the war.
WR asked to stop the war and the war continued.

Those are the facts up till now.

Sara, leader of VIS allows me to represent her in foreign policy.
You can send her a message ingame if you want to make sure.

She said that VIS will also take responsibility of the actions of its members.


I would also like to add that both WR and VIS will leave the war if Marauders will leave the war. But if TIE wants to fight WR, then all parties can sign peace and it will be only 1 alliance against 1 alliance, namely WR vs TIE for a pre determined time frame, after which peace starts automatically. this time frame could be 3 weeks for example. Enough to build up and mass anyone you want.

ian wrote:Kenzu.. if this was any other game I would agree with you - a handful of elite/better players can take on more numerous less-good players.

TIE has better techs, better army sizes per player and more experience per player than T.O.C... but for every player we had in our alliance, there was 3.7 players in T.O.C. For every 1 TIE player involved in attacking/hitting back against TOC... there was 2 TOC players involved in attacking/hitting TIE.

2 Words: Supply Turns. It is in this regard - Supply Turns - which TOC's advantage made the fight unfair.

Our techs and experience are utterly irrelevant if we are unable to actually attack T.O.C back.

TIE's war reserves have not once in this war been depleted or neared depletion - our strikes have had to be launched based solely on Supply Turns. Or more specifically... getting the necessary players together so someone can kill a defence (uses very little ST) and then having someone with both a sufficient strike to hunt assassins AND enough Supply Turns.

Its in that regard - Supply Turns - that T.O.C had a huge advantage. By sheer weight of numbers.... any fight against TOC by TIE would be epically difficult and unfair.

TIE is probably the better quality force on the game compared to T.O.C. We kill far more than we loose and often kill more than we loose even when getting massed... we have been consistently outfighting you on a daily basis with the only exception being when you massed Evil_Genius - who has since been removed from TIE for gross incompetence.

But the only reason that is the case is in large part due TOC incompetence.. You have vast resources and a vast amount of players.... yet you don't really know how to use them to their full potential. Only a fraction of TOC works together as a team and is involved in actually fighting - the rest remain isolated as individuals.

By all accounts you should have buried The Imperium within the first week of this war by sheer weight of numbers and the amount of resources you could bring to bare against us. The fact you haven't is due to your inability to get more than a small portion of TOC involved in the war & the obvious divisions within TOC between your "older" players and newer generation of players.

That however does not make it a fair fight. TIE's held you back by sheer determination, better techs, more experience, better team work & careful use of what capabilities we have... helped along by TOC incompetence when it comes to actually working fully as a empire & team.

But you have a huge resource, army size, economic and numerical advantage over TIE that should have been decisive. Now that TM is involved the war is a far more fairer one. If the war is "unfair" in anyway... it will be due to TOC inability to properly utilize its members and what it has as a team, as opposed to a massive TIE-TM superiority over you.

You still have a numerical advantage in active members and outproduce TIE-TM in supply turns, attack turns & market turns. That should go a long way to offsetting TIE-TM's economic advantage... if TOC can reach its proper potential.

As for Stars: The logs have long since vanished unfortunately. But I think it was something like 30k weapons & 100k defence soldiers/spies.

##########################################################################

If you want a real-life comparison of how this war was before TM intervened: The Finland-Russian war of 1939. Russia should have steam-rolled them with superior numbers and resources.... yet didn't in large part due to Finnish determination & skill coupled with the Red-Army being massively incompetent as a result of the purges of the officers and NCO's which had taken place under Stalin.

Then I recommend all alliances withdraw from the war and it will be only World Republic against Imperium for 2-4 weeks, during which there will be a total war, after which there is automatic peace, and we compare losses and see who was better in fighting.

What happens to our Muj war?

Does that suddenly get forgotten?

Mystake wrote:What happens to our Muj war?

Does that suddenly get forgotten?

To be perfectly honest Mujengan I think have been served their overdue "justice". We hit them... they hit us. I think we could probably accept a peace with them.

On the other hand - VIS & WR joined a war which they shouldn't have - the key word here being mutual *defence* pact... and the last time I checked defence does not mean offense - such as supporting Mujengan when their own members were the one's to initiate ingame hostile actions. That... coupled with not all of those who have been involved in hostile actions against TIE have been retaliated against... means any sort of peace established now before then, would probably be a bit premature & unacceptable to us.

So... I think what Kenzu is now trying to do is salvage the situation. I don't think when the rest of TOC intervened they expected the war to become so bloody or drag on for so long without even a mention of "negotiations" being raised (which they wouldn't have been for a while yet). They certainly didn't expect TM to intervene either.

Thus... Kenzu in essence is now trying to cut down the damage and losses inflicted by this war - via proposing those TIE has had its "justice" with - basically Mujengan - be allowed to withdraw from the war, while The Marauders and the rest of VIS (Except Sara... since she was involved in hitting TIE) also withdraw from the war. Meaning it would just be TIE vs. WR + Sara given we have "unfinished" business.

I ll be honest... this is something which is kinda appealing to me - since the last time TIE had the opportunity to fully bring its capabilities to bare solely on WR (as oppossed to being split between fighting WR + 2 or 3 other alliances like this and the last TIE-TOC war)... it was the Dark Crusade... which ended in a World Republic surrender and the forced-removal of Kenzu from WR Leadership. Something I d be very willing to try and beat in terms of achievements

Now TM is not after that much. We have a simple list, and we are still mulling it over and talking about whats currently going on. We do not support taking an alliance down to its knees.

ian wrote:

Mystake wrote:What happens to our Muj war?

Does that suddenly get forgotten?

To be perfectly honest Mujengan I think have been served their overdue "justice". We hit them... they hit us. I think we could probably accept a peace with them.

On the other hand - VIS & WR joined a war which they shouldn't have - the key word here being mutual *defence* pact... and the last time I checked defence does not mean offense - such as supporting Mujengan when their own members were the one's to initiate ingame hostile actions. That... coupled with not all of those who have been involved in hostile actions against TIE have been retaliated against... means any sort of peace established now before then, would probably be a bit premature & unacceptable to us.

So... I think what Kenzu is now trying to do is salvage the situation. I don't think when the rest of TOC intervened they expected the war to become so bloody or drag on for so long without even a mention of "negotiations" being raised (which they wouldn't have been for a while yet). They certainly didn't expect TM to intervene either.

Thus... Kenzu in essence is now trying to cut down the damage and losses inflicted by this war - via proposing those TIE has had its "justice" with - basically Mujengan - be allowed to withdraw from the war, while The Marauders and the rest of VIS (Except Sara... since she was involved in hitting TIE) also withdraw from the war. Meaning it would just be TIE vs. WR + Sara given we have "unfinished" business.

I ll be honest... this is something which is kinda appealing to me - since the last time TIE had the opportunity to fully bring its capabilities to bare solely on WR (as oppossed to being split between fighting WR + 2 or 3 other alliances like this and the last TIE-TOC war)... it was the Dark Crusade... which ended in a World Republic surrender and the forced-removal of Kenzu from WR Leadership. Something I d be very willing to try and beat in terms of achievements

So we have a deal?

WR+Sara versurs TIE

How much time do you need for this war? Is 3 weeks enough? This means war would end at 27 March 2011.

Nothing is settled yet Kenzu. This will be talked about but to be honest I doubt it will be decided for it to be this way.

It ain't that simple.

I might not get to assault anyone anymore?

Yeah I'm with zy-fy :'( lol. Maybe next time kenzu

no one said it's simple
Obviously it needs a lot of thought

TM would like to say that it doesn't recognize Kenzu speaking for VIS unless sara post that here, we also don't recognize ghyogod as diplomat or speaker for Muj unless Smog post it.
Thou ghyogod doesn't matter to use as much since we aren't currently fighting them.

Muj will also take responsability for its members.

Now we all have the same resolution.

seaborgium wrote:TM would like to say that it doesn't recognize Kenzu speaking for VIS unless sara post that here, we also don't recognize ghyogod as diplomat or speaker for Muj unless Smog post it.
Thou ghyogod doesn't matter to use as much since we aren't currently fighting them.

I support this as Command member and Diplimat of TM do i want a word from Sara and Smog just like SEA and SA want it before we accept this.

The Imperium also requires confirmation from Sara & Smog that Kenzu can speak for VIS, and ghyogod can speak for Mujengan.

Nimras wrote:

seaborgium wrote:TM would like to say that it doesn't recognize Kenzu speaking for VIS unless sara post that here, we also don't recognize ghyogod as diplomat or speaker for Muj unless Smog post it.
Thou ghyogod doesn't matter to use as much since we aren't currently fighting them.

I support this as Command member and Diplimat of TM do i want a word from Sara and Smog just like SEA and SA want it before we accept this.

I personally do not care and Seaborgium knows this. Sara is wife to Kenzu so of course she will do as a good wife does and be submissive to his will. She banks at the same time as him, yet is asleep 15 minutes later. Then he can ask her questions about policy changes in 15 minutes more because he can wake her. Therefore as far as I am concerned VIS is an extension of WR. I see no difference in them or their taggs. I recognize them as one in all matters. It is nothing more then a ploy to allow Kenzu leadership over a wider array of people. Lets face it, if Sara can not speak for herself, then she can not lead either. If Kenzu speaks for her, then he also leads for her.

As for ghyogod I will not recognize any diplomat from Munjengan. I will accept only the word of Vaga and Smog together. I have suffered the ploy of using a "figurehead" from them once already. I will not suffer it again. I will not recognize any diplomat from Munjengan. It will be Smog and Vaga together, or nothing.

That stated, it should also be said this my own opinion and not that of my alliance. Seaborgium is our leader so in him I will follow, even when I disagree with his decision, because I know it is done for the betterment of our alliance.

Special Agent 47 wrote:

Nimras wrote:

seaborgium wrote:TM would like to say that it doesn't recognize Kenzu speaking for VIS unless sara post that here, we also don't recognize ghyogod as diplomat or speaker for Muj unless Smog post it.
Thou ghyogod doesn't matter to use as much since we aren't currently fighting them.

I support this as Command member and Diplimat of TM do i want a word from Sara and Smog just like SEA and SA want it before we accept this.

I personally do not care and Seaborgium knows this. Sara is wife to Kenzu so of course she will do as a good wife does and be submissive to his will. She banks at the same time as him, yet is asleep 15 minutes later. Then he can ask her questions about policy changes in 15 minutes more because he can wake her. Therefore as far as I am concerned VIS is an extension of WR. I see no difference in them or their taggs. I recognize them as one in all matters. It is nothing more then a ploy to allow Kenzu leadership over a wider array of people. Lets face it, if Sara can not speak for herself, then she can not lead either. If Kenzu speaks for her, then he also leads for her.

As for ghyogod I will not recognize any diplomat from Munjengan. I will accept only the word of Vaga and Smog together. I have suffered the ploy of using a "figurehead" from them once already. I will not suffer it again. I will not recognize any diplomat from Munjengan. It will be Smog and Vaga together, or nothing.

That stated, it should also be said this my own opinion and not that of my alliance. Seaborgium is our leader so in him I will follow, even when I disagree with his decision, because I know it is done for the betterment of our alliance.

these are my thoughts as well...

seaborgium wrote:TM would like to say that it doesn't recognize Kenzu speaking for VIS unless sara post that here, we also don't recognize ghyogod as diplomat or speaker for Muj unless Smog post it.
Thou ghyogod doesn't matter to use as much since we aren't currently fighting them.

I agree with everything world republic agrees with, and if I don't agree with some policy, I will come and tell you all.

VIS will take responsbility for its members actions.

Special Agent 47 wrote:

Nimras wrote:

seaborgium wrote:TM would like to say that it doesn't recognize Kenzu speaking for VIS unless sara post that here, we also don't recognize ghyogod as diplomat or speaker for Muj unless Smog post it.
Thou ghyogod doesn't matter to use as much since we aren't currently fighting them.

I support this as Command member and Diplimat of TM do i want a word from Sara and Smog just like SEA and SA want it before we accept this.

I personally do not care and Seaborgium knows this. Sara is wife to Kenzu so of course she will do as a good wife does and be submissive to his will. She banks at the same time as him, yet is asleep 15 minutes later. Then he can ask her questions about policy changes in 15 minutes more because he can wake her. Therefore as far as I am concerned VIS is an extension of WR. I see no difference in them or their taggs. I recognize them as one in all matters. It is nothing more then a ploy to allow Kenzu leadership over a wider array of people. Lets face it, if Sara can not speak for herself, then she can not lead either. If Kenzu speaks for her, then he also leads for her.

As for ghyogod I will not recognize any diplomat from Munjengan. I will accept only the word of Vaga and Smog together. I have suffered the ploy of using a "figurehead" from them once already. I will not suffer it again. I will not recognize any diplomat from Munjengan. It will be Smog and Vaga together, or nothing.

That stated, it should also be said this my own opinion and not that of my alliance. Seaborgium is our leader so in him I will follow, even when I disagree with his decision, because I know it is done for the betterment of our alliance.

I agree with you on the Muj issue with Smog and Vaga. But i am also willing to give Muj one last chance.

So if Smog and Vaga or one of them PUBLIC say Ghyogod is their Diplomat and together with them can speak on behalf of Muj as I, Sea, SA47 and the other command members can then so be it but its the last time i will let Muj do this if they use this as a ploy again as they did before I for one will not take the word from anyone in Muj as they are untrustworthy, this is my thought and believes not TM.