PTR

If you give them fine, if not then fine as well. I tire of this.

Mystake wrote:Nomad,

PTR is controllable IF you have SS.

No SS, PTR is at the mercy of those who do have SS!

Manleva... I can get him banned I suppose, I could offset his PTR so bad that he can't fix it himself.

you can offset it only by you being the one giving things away. All he needs to do is report to admin that he got too much for no reason. And nomad is right, in this instance, admin would warn that person before banning him, and after it became clear that you sent him the resources without him asking for it, one might suspect that you are trying to get people banned. You are not dealing with computers here, but with real people. We think before we do something.

He can ask admin to fix his PTR. Besides, everyone can improve their PTR by simple growth. Even if you send someone 1 million units, who has only 1 million, and within a month they increase population from 2 million to 3 million then the PTR will fall from 50% to 33%.

Mystake wrote:so, what you're saying is that Admin has to interfere in the game for unintended side effects of features of the game he's implemented?


because see, now you're suggesting the admin has to interfere in the game playing field.


Also, Martin, you still have yet to respond to my PM. Do I need to resend it? The longer you stay quiet the more my point is proven...

If he doesn't respond, it doesn't mean that your point is proven, it simply means that he didn't respond.

Mystake wrote:Martin,

You just said you had to interfere with the game to 'clear' manlevas account.

That there is "I have to interfere with anything"

Your game's mechanics are faulty, and it's needed for you to adjust the ingame play.

Sending manleva's resources to get him in the red is a feature of the game
admin going in an changing it and REMOVING RESOURCES FROM THE GAME is interference.


I don't see how that could be put any more bluntly.

PTR has been proven, over and over to be faulty game mechanics. How much more do we need to prove this?

So I'm gunna go ahead and start feeding my alliance. I raid way more than they do but we all need to grow TOGETHER as a TEAM.

Am I to understand Admin will come in and reset my PTR seeing as I wasn't actually 'feeding', as in, feeding the way admin intended to stop it from happening?

Mistake is right, it is an interference. In fact, anything admin does in a game, no matter if he makes new updates, or if he bans people, all of it is an interference, but then again that's what an admin is for.
Any online game which has no admins has a bleak future. Questionable if it could exist.

How is PTR faulty, because I still haven't heard of a single player who would be banned without having broken a rule.

You cannot be feeding your alliance, because you would be braking game rules, especially if you feed too much.

Mystake wrote:but the feature is meant to stop people from logging in JUST to feed people

I'm playing actively, building my account AND helping others. Just means I have to play more.

But, I'm playing, aren't I?

And I'm saying its faulty because it doesn't do just what it was designed to do, it does a whole lot more which actually completely changes the gameplay and strategy of the game.

putting somoene in the Red is a game FEATURE due to its MECHANICS.

if someone's gunna have thier account 'safeguarded' from the red zone by the admin because someone FAIRLY pushed them into it, then I want admin to safeguard my account from the red zone as I help my friends grow!

Wrong, there shouldn't be a gain of unfair advantages, just because you play it doesn't mean that it will be tolerated that you hand over 50% of your production to a "friend account".
You should ask yourself, what is the reason why a rule exists? If you cling on exact meaning of rules and try to find loopholes, then you are only trying to be smart, which must come with harsher punishments.

You can help your friends grow, but do it moderately, so that you stay in the green zone. Afterall if you send too much away, you are wrecking your account.

No one has been pushed into the red zone. People went their voluntarily by doing things which they believed are still ok, and still fair.
But we all know that things such as merging of 2 accounts into one are unfair towards all the people who didn't have such a possibility.

Nomad wrote:It will tell you that you gave 100 bill to the alliance, but doesnt tell you that you have to pay 120 bill to get your PTR right after 3/6 months.

Kill them or support them, stop trying to walk an imaginary line


hope your headache gets better soon mate. but yes, you should get back roughly what you give, if not then you might as well completely unregulate it and allow multis and feeders with no restriction. thats what your asking for.

Yes, get back roughly what you give. But If you give someone a billion, then after 3 months he must give you maybe 2 billion. Why?
Because todays 1 billion will be worth 2 billion in 3 months.

You have to pay the same value, and kuwal loses value with each day.

seaborgium wrote:Thats crap, there are many threads/postings showing about ALLIANCE programs.
The benefits are for working as a team, to help each other grow. As long as the benefits are 100% optional in coding, so that the option is there and not forced by the game.

my point was actually that "I was not aware that people want to have benefits that are available only through being in an alliance"

something like alliance houses in sgw.
you join an alliance and get a % stat boost (although you also get a different one for being lone wolf)

Kenzu wrote:

Nomad wrote:It will tell you that you gave 100 bill to the alliance, but doesnt tell you that you have to pay 120 bill to get your PTR right after 3/6 months.

Kill them or support them, stop trying to walk an imaginary line


hope your headache gets better soon mate. but yes, you should get back roughly what you give, if not then you might as well completely unregulate it and allow multis and feeders with no restriction. thats what your asking for.

Yes, get back roughly what you give. But If you give someone a billion, then after 3 months he must give you maybe 2 billion. Why?
Because todays 1 billion will be worth 2 billion in 3 months.

You have to pay the same value, and kuwal loses value with each day.

That there is the reason it kills any alliance program.
My alliance has 20 players.
If we each gave 1 person 1b for 20 weeks, it shows we all sent the same amount and got the same. However due to changes in the value, the game doesn't see it that way.
So maybe make an alliance bank, that noone person can get stuff out twice in a row.

seaborgium wrote:

Kenzu wrote:

Nomad wrote:It will tell you that you gave 100 bill to the alliance, but doesnt tell you that you have to pay 120 bill to get your PTR right after 3/6 months.

Kill them or support them, stop trying to walk an imaginary line


hope your headache gets better soon mate. but yes, you should get back roughly what you give, if not then you might as well completely unregulate it and allow multis and feeders with no restriction. thats what your asking for.

Yes, get back roughly what you give. But If you give someone a billion, then after 3 months he must give you maybe 2 billion. Why?
Because todays 1 billion will be worth 2 billion in 3 months.

You have to pay the same value, and kuwal loses value with each day.

That there is the reason it kills any alliance program.
My alliance has 20 players.
If we each gave 1 person 1b for 20 weeks, it shows we all sent the same amount and got the same. However due to changes in the value, the game doesn't see it that way.
So maybe make an alliance bank, that noone person can get stuff out twice in a row.

EXACTLY.

Though I think just limiting it to a % of your current account size, limiting it to paying back before barrowing, and freezing the price/value so that you pay back what you borrowed is a much better set up

(08:27:58) seaborgium_(unconfirmed): With PTR in place, I can't really find a "good" way to do an alliance program
(08:28:23) seaborgium_(unconfirmed): Every time I think about something and have it decent, I then think that 1 kuwal day isn't 1 kuwal in a week
(08:28:38) admin_(unconfirmed): i'm sure there is a way, either how to do the program or make an update to the ptr
(08:30:00) seaborgium_(unconfirmed): I agree, if you change the way ptr works
(08:30:24) seaborgium_(unconfirmed): My first thought is an alliance bank, where each person puts in, and can't take out twice in a row
(08:30:34) seaborgium_(unconfirmed): maybe even where if you don't put in you can't take out
(08:30:39) admin_(unconfirmed): as i see it the conflicting issue is between the need for a loss of value and the need for a frozen value
(08:31:09) Keinutnai_(unconfirmed): what kind of alliance program did you have in mind?
(08:31:19) Keinutnai_(unconfirmed): big players helping small ones, or the other way round?
(08:31:32) seaborgium_(unconfirmed): I know how it would work in my alliance
(08:31:48) seaborgium_(unconfirmed): it would be everyone pulling resrouces and starting at the bottom of the allaince and working up
(08:32:06) Keinutnai_(unconfirmed): I recomend you count with a simple interest rate, for example 1% per day
(08:32:13) seaborgium_(unconfirmed): week 1 would be for them to get tech levels or weapon/covert/assn power
(08:32:29) seaborgium_(unconfirmed): or even to buy uu
(08:32:36) seaborgium_(unconfirmed): rebuild a def or build a higher one
(08:33:08) Keinutnai_(unconfirmed): i think the best way to do this would be with an alliance bank in place
(08:33:19) seaborgium_(unconfirmed): sooner or later little ones would help big ones, but only after being helped themselves
(08:33:30) seaborgium_(unconfirmed): Also there should be a time limit in place
(08:33:55) seaborgium_(unconfirmed): so they have to be in the alliance for a time, so someone can't jump from alliance to allaince and get help
(08:34:28) Keinutnai_(unconfirmed): an alliance bank which keeps the kuwal, which means that if you deposit kuwal inside, and later take out the same amount, it wouldnt harm the keeper of the kuwal because the alliance bank doesnt have ptr
(08:34:55) Keinutnai_(unconfirmed): this way an alliance could store vast amounts of kuwal without having a player worsen his PTR
(08:35:05) seaborgium_(unconfirmed): your talking a 1:1 value
(08:35:15) seaborgium_(unconfirmed): it still doesn't help, it just give another bank to a player
(08:35:16) Keinutnai_(unconfirmed): what i meant is this
(08:35:24) Keinutnai_(unconfirmed): say your alliance gathers 200 billion kuwal
(08:35:35) Keinutnai_(unconfirmed): basically your members deposit it in the alliance bank
(08:35:42) Keinutnai_(unconfirmed): people might have different ratios
(08:35:49) Keinutnai_(unconfirmed): lets assume everyone had 0%
(08:35:54) Keinutnai_(unconfirmed): and now they have -5%
(08:36:33) Keinutnai_(unconfirmed): of course if this kuwal stays there as a reserve, then if a war happens and it will be taken out, then depending on the time, it will be less than +5% for the members
(08:36:48) Keinutnai_(unconfirmed): the members might get all the 200 billion kuwal back, and their PTR will not be -5% anymore
(08:36:55) Keinutnai_(unconfirmed): but maybe -1% or -2%
(08:36:58) seaborgium_(unconfirmed): the whole point is not to affect PTR
(08:37:20) Keinutnai_(unconfirmed): PTR counts how much value you sent out and how much you receive
(08:37:25) Keinutnai_(unconfirmed): that's why it must be counted
(08:37:37) seaborgium_(unconfirmed): Then every alliance program will fail
(08:37:47) seaborgium_(unconfirmed): as I could put in 1b today
(08:37:58) Keinutnai_(unconfirmed): I want everything to be counted, you want to make alliance programs, so then all that has to be achieved is that you can make your alliance program while it gets counted
(08:37:59) seaborgium_(unconfirmed): and in 3 months need it, I pull it out and its not worth the same 1b
(08:38:00) seaborgium_(unconfirmed): OR
(08:38:11) seaborgium_(unconfirmed): I barrow 1 b today and am able to pay it back in 3 months
(08:38:21) seaborgium_(unconfirmed): that would give me a + value to my ptr
(08:38:23) Keinutnai_(unconfirmed): which can be easily eachieved by either increasing the % that PTR is still in the green, OR by other means
(08:38:37) Keinutnai_(unconfirmed): why is that a problem?
(08:38:58) Keinutnai_(unconfirmed): why does the fact that your PTR gets influenced bother you at all, if you know that you will still be in the green area?
(08:39:00) seaborgium_(unconfirmed): the more you increase the PTR green zone, the more likey people are going to sell
(08:41:47) seaborgium_(unconfirmed): I can tell you right now, that any alliance program that affects ptr most won't play
(08:41:53) admin_(unconfirmed): the ptr jump was because of a minor bug but that was with the calculation of the accoutn values
(08:41:56) Keinutnai_(unconfirmed): now if you for example spend 30 billion on some alliance program
(08:41:58) seaborgium_(unconfirmed): play = use
(08:42:17) admin_(unconfirmed): it got fixed and was a temp issue
(08:42:28) seaborgium_(unconfirmed): also kenzu right now I can do nothing to fix my ptr
(08:42:37) Keinutnai_(unconfirmed): and then some time later get 20 billion back, then no one will be mad at you that you got 20 billion in your favour, even though you have a high PTR, simply because you sent more away
(08:42:37) seaborgium_(unconfirmed): I am at war with muj


there was more, but its hard to get it sorted out.
Aworon basically said send someone 50b, get 65b back as due to inflation it would equal out.
a few pointed out that would work if it was a steady pace, but since it fluctuates so much you can't say for certain.

seaborgium wrote:there was more, but its hard to get it sorted out.
Aworon basically said send someone 50b, get 65b back as due to inflation it would equal out.
a few pointed out that would work if it was a steady pace, but since it fluctuates so much you can't say for certain.

but when you make a broker you know how many turns worth of stuff you're sending away. so just write that down and then later send the same turn value back

Admin wrote:

seaborgium wrote:there was more, but its hard to get it sorted out.
Aworon basically said send someone 50b, get 65b back as due to inflation it would equal out.
a few pointed out that would work if it was a steady pace, but since it fluctuates so much you can't say for certain.

but when you make a broker you know how many turns worth of stuff you're sending away. so just write that down and then later send the same turn value back

so your wanting players to keep up with 10, or 20 trades a day for 6 months?

As has been stated, if its that complicated it wont be used. Be better if you just said it will not be supported in this game and be done with it, so we can move on.

Nomad wrote:

Admin wrote:

seaborgium wrote:there was more, but its hard to get it sorted out.
Aworon basically said send someone 50b, get 65b back as due to inflation it would equal out.
a few pointed out that would work if it was a steady pace, but since it fluctuates so much you can't say for certain.

but when you make a broker you know how many turns worth of stuff you're sending away. so just write that down and then later send the same turn value back

so your wanting players to keep up with 10, or 20 trades a day for 6 months?

As has been stated, if its that complicated it wont be used. Be better if you just said it will not be supported in this game and be done with it, so we can move on.

Or you simply take the value and calculate a daily inflation of 1.5% and ignore the pennies.
You will end up with a value, which if you send, your PTR almost the same to what it was before.

1.015^number of days = this is your multiplier.
1 billion today will be roughly 1.56 billion in 1 month.

so it kills alliance programs pretty much all together.


why wouldnt you use your own 1.56 billion to build your account then to have to pay someone .56 bill to borrow 1 bill, as you just lost .56 bill in which you could build your own account.

only thing its good for is the first 5K AT that doesnt change your PTR

Nomad wrote:so it kills alliance programs pretty much all together.


why wouldnt you use your own 1.56 billion to build your account then to have to pay someone .56 bill to borrow 1 bill, as you just lost .56 bill in which you could build your own account.

only thing its good for is the first 5K AT that doesnt change your PTR

the 1.5% was a random figure.

If you want precise numbers...
If you had sent away 30 bil kuwal, 30 days ago. Today to clear your PTR you would need to receive 31.169 Bil kuwal.
Considering this is under 4% interest in 1 month, I am confident it would not be hard to find many people who would want to take loans at such prices.

Nomad wrote:so it kills alliance programs pretty much all together.


why wouldnt you use your own 1.56 billion to build your account then to have to pay someone .56 bill to borrow 1 bill, as you just lost .56 bill in which you could build your own account.

only thing its good for is the first 5K AT that doesnt change your PTR

because while you can grow by only 1.5% each day (by buying uu and training them into farmers with 50% AE)
they can use the kuwal to increase up and they will grow not with 1.5%, but with 5% or 10% with the same money!

A player could pay you 2% interest, you will benefit from it, and he will benefit too, because while he grows by 10%, he pays back only 2%

Now apply that to WR and an 80+week loan.

Also means you have to basicly team up with just 2,3 maybe 4 members in a team. Not alliance wide

Why not?

If you give someone loans that exceed 1 month, I recommend that the person will pay back the interest frequently, or with an anuity just like its common with banks, basically paying a certain amount each week until the whole debt is paid of including interest.

Allowing more open brokers would help make it easier for more members to get access to funds easier. Instead of 5 outgoing and 15 incoming, have a max of 10 outgoing and 30 incomming. That should be enough for any alliance.

you still have not answered the most important question.

why give away funds you could build your own account with?

short of a brand new player, its useless, you would grow your account more and better using your own funds. so why do it?

take a loan from 1 maybe 2 people to get the next level isnt an alliance program, its a loan.

I guess thats the difference in what we are seeing/saying.

We can do 1 on 1 or 2 on 1 loans just fine. Its not hard to keep up with, and it doesnt move PTR that much. Seeing how you have a full bank, then go on protection for 2 to 4 days to have the max amount you can have that means you only have to borrow about 1/2 what you need.

Thats not an alliance program. An alliance program is alliance wide.

Anything which helps alliance members can be considered an alliance program.

Ever thought of helping others without expecting a personal gain for it?

I still fail to see an alliance program which is legal and would be blocked by PTR. What alliance programs did you have in mind?
Why dont you say a couple examples?

Who has asked for or wanted personal gain?

YOU are the one wanting more paid back then given, so YOU are the one wanting personal gain.

AGAIN, Using WR as a perfect EXAMPLE

Admin wrote:
If you had sent away 30 bil kuwal, 30 days ago. Today to clear your PTR you would need to receive 31.169 Bil kuwal.
Considering this is under 4% interest in 1 month, I am confident it would not be hard to find many people who would want to take loans at such prices.

Now using this information provided by Admin, lets say WR wanted everyone to get covert level 5800, I think its like 156Bill kewal for huala.

Now at 80 players how you gonna do it? Without redlining the entire alliance, and without the entire alliance paying back 4% intreast for the 80 +months it would take to do it?

You don't seem to be able to understand that if it cost you more then if you do it on your own Then what is the damn point??????

UP yes, its a good idea to borrow to increase UP as you sell that UP to increase income and repay loans, but tech's, constructions, levels, none of that increases your income, so there is no friggan point in borrowing it as you are actually lossing out. you could build it yourself furture buy using the 4% your being forced to give away.

Why you want to make personall gain from helping someone weaker then yourself is your business, but don't Dare act like I am trying to.

Nomad what you dont seem to understand that a loan without interest is not a fair loan.
It's like asking the bank for 100k dollars and then paying them 100k dollars back 2 years later. No one would do that, that's the reason the PTR considers it.

Now onto your question of it affecting a program.
You dont have to repay the 4%. Just keep it, 4% out of 150 bil would increase your PTR by 0.2% if you're a below average account with an account value of 100k

Then the next programe, or next round of sending resources, whatever you call it, you'll be on the other side of the equation, having the other person keep the 4%
The end result? surprise surprise, you just balanced out your PTR

Admin wrote:Nomad what you dont seem to understand that a loan without interest is not a fair loan.
It's like asking the bank for 100k dollars and then paying them 100k dollars back 2 years later. No one would do that, that's the reason the PTR considers it.

Now onto your question of it affecting a program.
You dont have to repay the 4%. Just keep it, 4% out of 150 bil would increase your PTR by 0.2% if you're a below average account with an account value of 100k

Then the next programe, or next round of sending resources, whatever you call it, you'll be on the other side of the equation, having the other person keep the 4%
The end result? surprise surprise, you just balanced out your PTR

first of all, we are not talking about banks here, we are talking friends & alliance mates here, I would never charge a friend any interest on any money I might loan out, & any friend that tried to charge me interest on money I might borrow, wouldn't be on my friends list for long.

Admin wrote:Nomad what you dont seem to understand that a loan without interest is not a fair loan.
It's like asking the bank for 100k dollars and then paying them 100k dollars back 2 years later. No one would do that, that's the reason the PTR considers it.
This is my entire point in a nutshell, thank you for finally admitting it. You will not and do not want alliance programs, because you see the difference between borrowing money from a bank, and borrowong money from your friends, brothers, parents, kids, or family is the fact they DO NOT charge you interest.

So finally you say you do not want not will support alliance programs, how hard was that? I mean really??



Now onto your question of it affecting a program.
You dont have to repay the 4%. Just keep it, 4% out of 150 bil would increase your PTR by 0.2% if you're a below average account with an account value of 100k

Then the next programe, or next round of sending resources, whatever you call it, you'll be on the other side of the equation, having the other person keep the 4%
The end result? surprise surprise, you just balanced out your PTR

So your telling me, I can borrow 154 bill kewal from 80 people for 80 weeks and it wont effect my PTR? WOW

sure seems strange to me 50 bill moved on or off my account effects it, yet you say it doesnt, anyway I finally got my answer, IDK why you can not just speak plainly from the start and avoid wasting peoples time. Its getting disheartening to invest so much time in something when you already know it will never fly and can explain why. Why not just say it from the beginning and stop wasting my time.


@ Kong,,,, they just dont get it mate. I'm glad my family isnt like theirs (Not a personal slader or negative remark, but if you charge your family interest on a loan, well I'm glad my family doesn't is all I'm saying)


At the very least will you allow non SS players the ability to trade with alliance mates under the PTR rules? As for right now they are suffering with no way to trade for what they need in the amounts they need. trade market doesnt offer the resources needed for many to get their next levels and such. If its going to cost them such a high interest rate thats fine, but atleast give them a way.

Nomad wrote:

Admin wrote:Nomad what you dont seem to understand that a loan without interest is not a fair loan.
It's like asking the bank for 100k dollars and then paying them 100k dollars back 2 years later. No one would do that, that's the reason the PTR considers it.
This is my entire point in a nutshell, thank you for finally admitting it. You will not and do not want alliance programs, because you see the difference between borrowing money from a bank, and borrowong money from your friends, brothers, parents, kids, or family is the fact they DO NOT charge you interest.

So finally you say you do not want not will support alliance programs, how hard was that? I mean really??



Now onto your question of it affecting a program.
You dont have to repay the 4%. Just keep it, 4% out of 150 bil would increase your PTR by 0.2% if you're a below average account with an account value of 100k

Then the next programe, or next round of sending resources, whatever you call it, you'll be on the other side of the equation, having the other person keep the 4%
The end result? surprise surprise, you just balanced out your PTR

So your telling me, I can borrow 154 bill kewal from 80 people for 80 weeks and it wont effect my PTR? WOW

sure seems strange to me 50 bill moved on or off my account effects it, yet you say it doesnt, anyway I finally got my answer, IDK why you can not just speak plainly from the start and avoid wasting peoples time. Its getting disheartening to invest so much time in something when you already know it will never fly and can explain why. Why not just say it from the beginning and stop wasting my time.


@ Kong,,,, they just dont get it mate. I'm glad my family isnt like theirs (Not a personal slander or negative remark, but if you charge your family interest on a loan, well I'm glad my family doesn't is all I'm saying)


At the very least will you allow non SS players the ability to trade with alliance mates under the PTR rules? As for right now they are suffering with no way to trade for what they need in the amounts they need. trade market doesnt offer the resources needed for many to get their next levels and such. If its going to cost them such a high interest rate thats fine, but atleast give them a way.

Agreed...

Can you atleast come up with something to allow alliances to pool resources to purchase SS for its members without wrecking everyones PTR? Since it will most likely be a string of 5 or 10 dollar SS packs, as it stands now who ever needs them suffers a nasty hit to PTR for simply supporting your game. All the givers are ok as its such a small amount, but the reciever gets a real kick in the teeth, plus its getting harder and harder to find buyers as buying wrecks their PTR

[quote="Nomad"]

Admin wrote:Nomad what you dont seem to understand that a loan without interest is not a fair loan.
It's like asking the bank for 100k dollars and then paying them 100k dollars back 2 years later. No one would do that, that's the reason the PTR considers it.
This is my entire point in a nutshell, thank you for finally admitting it. You will not and do not want alliance programs, because you see the difference between borrowing money from a bank, and borrowong money from your friends, brothers, parents, kids, or family is the fact they DO NOT charge you interest.

So finally you say you do not want not will support alliance programs, how hard was that? I mean really??

I've already proven that support for alliances is possible and without affecting one's PTR.
Please stop putting words into my mouth which have nothing to do with what I say.

Plus when you loan to someone it doesn't matter if you loan to family or strangers.
If you send resources away withought getting an adequate amount back then you are feeding, if you are feeding then your PTR will change, that's the whole point of it.
If i send you 100 bil kuwal now, and then you send me 100 bil kuwal back in two years then I definitely did not receive an adequate amount in return.
If I get 10 accounts to send me those resources and i only have to pay them in a year then that's a process called feeding


My point is still standing and has not been shown wrong yet, if you are really in a family giving yourself interest free resources then you wont see any long term effect on PTR because at one time you'll be feeding them, but then sometime later they will feed you. Because that's what a family does, help each other when it's necessary.

And even if it's family, they are not allowed to feed you because that's clearly against the rules since it's the same as basically playing multies.

Nomad wrote:So your telling me, I can borrow 154 bill kewal from 80 people for 80 weeks and it wont effect my PTR? WOW

You can even borrow out several tril kuwal from as many people as you like. Borrowing resources doesn't affect PTR, only keeping it does.

oh yeh and I have a system planned out for those people.

Admin wrote:
oh yeh and I have a system planned out for those people.

care to elaborate exactly who or what your referring to?

Nomad wrote:

Admin wrote:
oh yeh and I have a system planned out for those people.

care to elaborate exactly who or what your referring to?

saving up resources to get ss for other players.