Re: PTR

by Nomad Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:24 pm

Admin wrote:
Nomad wrote:
Admin wrote:
oh yeh and I have a system planned out for those people.

care to elaborate exactly who or what your referring to?
saving up resources to get ss for other players.

TY

by Kenzu Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:06 am

Nomad wrote:Who has asked for or wanted personal gain?

YOU are the one wanting more paid back then given, so YOU are the one wanting personal gain.

AGAIN, Using WR as a perfect EXAMPLE
Admin wrote:
If you had sent away 30 bil kuwal, 30 days ago. Today to clear your PTR you would need to receive 31.169 Bil kuwal.
Considering this is under 4% interest in 1 month, I am confident it would not be hard to find many people who would want to take loans at such prices.

Now using this information provided by Admin, lets say WR wanted everyone to get covert level 5800, I think its like 156Bill kewal for huala.

Now at 80 players how you gonna do it? Without redlining the entire alliance, and without the entire alliance paying back 4% intreast for the 80 +months it would take to do it?

You don't seem to be able to understand that if it cost you more then if you do it on your own Then what is the damn point??????

UP yes, its a good idea to borrow to increase UP as you sell that UP to increase income and repay loans, but tech's, constructions, levels, none of that increases your income, so there is no friggan point in borrowing it as you are actually lossing out. you could build it yourself furture buy using the 4% your being forced to give away.

Why you want to make personall gain from helping someone weaker then yourself is your business, but don't Dare act like I am trying to.

getting that kind of upgrade for small accounts is completely useless.
Why should a 1 million account get an upgrade that costs 156 billion kuwal, if with 10 billion kuwal invested into units they can have the same action?

Spending 12.480 billion (80 accounts) for that upgrade would be a waste.
Even without PTR you wouldn't be able to make such a program.
And have you ever considered the risk of someone getting 156 billion and them simply stopping playing before paying it back?

kingkongfan1 wrote:
Admin wrote:Nomad what you dont seem to understand that a loan without interest is not a fair loan.
It's like asking the bank for 100k dollars and then paying them 100k dollars back 2 years later. No one would do that, that's the reason the PTR considers it.

Now onto your question of it affecting a program.
You dont have to repay the 4%. Just keep it, 4% out of 150 bil would increase your PTR by 0.2% if you're a below average account with an account value of 100k

Then the next programe, or next round of sending resources, whatever you call it, you'll be on the other side of the equation, having the other person keep the 4%
The end result? surprise surprise, you just balanced out your PTR

first of all, we are not talking about banks here, we are talking friends & alliance mates here, I would never charge a friend any interest on any money I might loan out, & any friend that tried to charge me interest on money I might borrow, wouldn't be on my friends list for long.

And I would always pay back with interest to anyone who gave me a loan, even if he didn't want it.
I would feel bad if I paid back the same amount, because this meant I am paying less than what I received.

And again there is a difference if you lend 10.000$ to a friend for a year, because RL interest rate isn't high, maybe 5%
and a difference on Aderan Wars, where 10 billion kuwal now are worth 15 billion kuwal in 1 month. (Yearly interest over 7000%)

Real Life interest rate is 0.01% per day
Aderan Wars interest rate is 1.2% per day

by Admin Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:41 am

it hasn't been 1.2% per day in a very long time now and it only keeps decreasing but overall he's right, in aw the inflation is much stronger than in rl

by Nomad Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:08 am

Admin wrote:it hasn't been 1.2% per day in a very long time now and it only keeps decreasing but overall he's right, in aw the inflation is much stronger than in rl

who exactly are you agreeing with? and WTF does inflation got to do with anything?

Nevermind, I got my answer.

No alliance programs outside the allowable limts of PTR.

Its simple, you should just try saying it and being done.

by Manleva Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:57 am

[quote="Nomad"

who exactly are you agreeing with? and WTF does inflation got to do with anything?

Nevermind, I got my answer.

No alliance programs outside the allowable limts of PTR.

Its simple, you should just try saying it and being done.[/quote]

No, from what I can see he's saying that there will be No True Alliance Programs because it all has to include PTR and SS.
So any assistance you give to non-SS players is going to affect your PTR and you will have to counter it some other way and the non-SS player will have to counter it via account growth. And if I have read things correctly loosing Units in war also affects your account value which screws it even more for the non-SS Players

by Nomad Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:44 am

Yeah, but thats how it is. If you have no SS do not accept anything from anyone. Thats what hes saying.

Oh admin, might want to make a "checkable" box to not allow direct transfers from other players to allow those who want to maintain their PTR to not have to suffer having it toyed with by others looking to try to prove a point.

Atleast he has given us hope in an alliance trying to buy its member SS, maybe

by Admin Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:38 pm

Nomad wrote:Yeah, but thats how it is. If you have no SS do not accept anything from anyone. Thats what hes saying.

Oh admin, might want to make a "checkable" box to not allow direct transfers from other players to allow those who want to maintain their PTR to not have to suffer having it toyed with by others looking to try to prove a point.

Atleast he has given us hope in an alliance trying to buy its member SS, maybe

direct transfer has been removed for good.
considering you can broker people without ss, sending them resources one way, since the last update

by Admin Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:39 pm

Manleva wrote:And if I have read things correctly loosing Units in war also affects your account value which screws it even more for the non-SS Players

you understood the precise opposite then

by Nomad Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:41 pm

Admin wrote:
Nomad wrote:Yeah, but thats how it is. If you have no SS do not accept anything from anyone. Thats what hes saying.

Oh admin, might want to make a "checkable" box to not allow direct transfers from other players to allow those who want to maintain their PTR to not have to suffer having it toyed with by others looking to try to prove a point.

Atleast he has given us hope in an alliance trying to buy its member SS, maybe
direct transfer has been removed for good.
considering you can broker people without ss, sending them resources one way, since the last update

Thanks Admin, now they have to accept it, and what issues it brings with it.

by seaborgium Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:06 am

Since you dropped direct transfers has the % been adjusted also?

by Admin Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:26 am

seaborgium wrote:Since you dropped direct transfers has the % been adjusted also?

from?

the transfers that should not have happened or just all transfers in general?

by seaborgium Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:11 am

from this point on

I can't remeber the % now

It was something liek 3% in brokers, 2% direct or something

by Kingofshinobis1 Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:09 am

Wasn't it 2% broker and 1% direct send %s? I can't remember for some reason

by Admin Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:10 am

no, it used to be 1% direct, 2% broker, 3% gm

Now, gm has 0%, direct is gone and broker still has 2%

by seaborgium Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:42 am

1 of the main reasons for direct before the PTR came out was the 1%.
Now I know why it was that way after PTR.
So no change on the 2% fee

by Kenzu Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:04 pm

Nomad wrote:
Admin wrote:it hasn't been 1.2% per day in a very long time now and it only keeps decreasing but overall he's right, in aw the inflation is much stronger than in rl

who exactly are you agreeing with? and WTF does inflation got to do with anything?

Nevermind, I got my answer.

No alliance programs outside the allowable limts of PTR.

Its simple, you should just try saying it and being done.

Either stay within limits of PTR, or if you are going out of PTR, make sure you will come back.
Then again, giving someone new vast resources, bears the risk that you won't see it at all, and that's the reason why you should never go outside PTR.

If you are outside PTR already, then when you start alliance programs, then make sure that others are the recipients of funds first. If you receive the alliance aid last, then you will break even, and your PTR will improve and then simply fall back to where it was if the alliance program was a fair one.

by Mystake Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:27 pm

[quote="Admin"]

Nomad wrote:
Admin wrote:Nomad what you dont seem to understand that a loan without interest is not a fair loan.
It's like asking the bank for 100k dollars and then paying them 100k dollars back 2 years later. No one would do that, that's the reason the PTR considers it.
This is my entire point in a nutshell, thank you for finally admitting it. You will not and do not want alliance programs, because you see the difference between borrowing money from a bank, and borrowong money from your friends, brothers, parents, kids, or family is the fact they DO NOT charge you interest.

So finally you say you do not want not will support alliance programs, how hard was that? I mean really??
I've already proven that support for alliances is possible and without affecting one's PTR.
Please stop putting words into my mouth which have nothing to do with what I say.

Plus when you loan to someone it doesn't matter if you loan to family or strangers.
If you send resources away withought getting an adequate amount back then you are feeding, if you are feeding then your PTR will change, that's the whole point of it.
If i send you 100 bil kuwal now, and then you send me 100 bil kuwal back in two years then I definitely did not receive an adequate amount in return.
If I get 10 accounts to send me those resources and i only have to pay them in a year then that's a process called feeding

My point is still standing and has not been shown wrong yet, if you are really in a family giving yourself interest free resources then you wont see any long term effect on PTR because at one time you'll be feeding them, but then sometime later they will feed you. Because that's what a family does, help each other when it's necessary.

And even if it's family, they are not allowed to feed you because that's clearly against the rules since it's the same as basically playing multies.

Nomad wrote:So your telling me, I can borrow 154 bill kewal from 80 people for 80 weeks and it wont effect my PTR? WOW
You can even borrow out several tril kuwal from as many people as you like. Borrowing resources doesn't affect PTR, only keeping it does.

oh yeh and I have a system planned out for those people.

i bolded a quote up there

martin, you haven't proven anything except your own personal greed. I mean, seriously. Just because this game is your business, does not make alliances yours too. Let alliances govern their own alliance programs. You're making your $$, so be happy.

If anything, making alliances work together = increased activity = more players = more $$ in your pocket, and I KNOW you're not doing this JUST for the fun of it.
I mean, seriously, if you were, you'd charge 20$/SS and it'd be permanent OR you could achieve it an alternative way $$-free way.

by Mystake Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:29 pm

Admin wrote:
And even if it's family, they are not allowed to feed you because that's clearly against the rules since it's the same as basically playing multies.

in my family my parents don't charge me interest on the food they've put on the table!!

Martin, my parents have "fed" me my university education.

on that note, I want to loan you 1000$. Srsly. Keep it for 10 years. I want the inflation value of it back. You're better than investing in stocks.

by Mystake Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:30 pm

Kenzu wrote:
Nomad wrote:Who has asked for or wanted personal gain?

YOU are the one wanting more paid back then given, so YOU are the one wanting personal gain.

AGAIN, Using WR as a perfect EXAMPLE
Admin wrote:
If you had sent away 30 bil kuwal, 30 days ago. Today to clear your PTR you would need to receive 31.169 Bil kuwal.
Considering this is under 4% interest in 1 month, I am confident it would not be hard to find many people who would want to take loans at such prices.

Now using this information provided by Admin, lets say WR wanted everyone to get covert level 5800, I think its like 156Bill kewal for huala.

Now at 80 players how you gonna do it? Without redlining the entire alliance, and without the entire alliance paying back 4% intreast for the 80 +months it would take to do it?

You don't seem to be able to understand that if it cost you more then if you do it on your own Then what is the damn point??????

UP yes, its a good idea to borrow to increase UP as you sell that UP to increase income and repay loans, but tech's, constructions, levels, none of that increases your income, so there is no friggan point in borrowing it as you are actually lossing out. you could build it yourself furture buy using the 4% your being forced to give away.

Why you want to make personall gain from helping someone weaker then yourself is your business, but don't Dare act like I am trying to.

getting that kind of upgrade for small accounts is completely useless.
Why should a 1 million account get an upgrade that costs 156 billion kuwal, if with 10 billion kuwal invested into units they can have the same action?

Spending 12.480 billion (80 accounts) for that upgrade would be a waste.
Even without PTR you wouldn't be able to make such a program.
And have you ever considered the risk of someone getting 156 billion and them simply stopping playing before paying it back?

kingkongfan1 wrote:
Admin wrote:Nomad what you dont seem to understand that a loan without interest is not a fair loan.
It's like asking the bank for 100k dollars and then paying them 100k dollars back 2 years later. No one would do that, that's the reason the PTR considers it.

Now onto your question of it affecting a program.
You dont have to repay the 4%. Just keep it, 4% out of 150 bil would increase your PTR by 0.2% if you're a below average account with an account value of 100k

Then the next programe, or next round of sending resources, whatever you call it, you'll be on the other side of the equation, having the other person keep the 4%
The end result? surprise surprise, you just balanced out your PTR

first of all, we are not talking about banks here, we are talking friends & alliance mates here, I would never charge a friend any interest on any money I might loan out, & any friend that tried to charge me interest on money I might borrow, wouldn't be on my friends list for long.

And I would always pay back with interest to anyone who gave me a loan, even if he didn't want it.
I would feel bad if I paid back the same amount, because this meant I am paying less than what I received.

And again there is a difference if you lend 10.000$ to a friend for a year, because RL interest rate isn't high, maybe 5%
and a difference on Aderan Wars, where 10 billion kuwal now are worth 15 billion kuwal in 1 month. (Yearly interest over 7000%)

Real Life interest rate is 0.01% per day
Aderan Wars interest rate is 1.2% per day

FFS Kenzu are you seriously THAT blond???
See bolded;

What level are your techs? Admin, please remove them and refund them, or convert them to units. Clearly, getting levels is more expensive than buying units so why buy levels?

Like, WOW.

by Mystake Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:35 pm

Anyway, so the verdict is in.

Alliance Economic Programs contrevene the rules of AW.

Simple. Very, very simple.

Oh and, you MUST buy SS in order to effectively play, and there is no choice but to use $$. I even forgot this too then, AW is a Subscription Based game.

And don't even TRY!!!!!!!! to tell me how much this game costs to run.

Seriously. Don't.

by Kenzu Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:13 am

Mystake wrote:Anyway, so the verdict is in.

Alliance Economic Programs contrevene the rules of AW.

Simple. Very, very simple.

Oh and, you MUST buy SS in order to effectively play, and there is no choice but to use $$. I even forgot this too then, AW is a Subscription Based game.

And don't even TRY!!!!!!!! to tell me how much this game costs to run.

Seriously. Don't.

I would expect such post from someone who has no idea about PTR and makes his first post here, not from someone who has received tons of posts from admins to read.
We have been explaining to you again and again, and you don't seem to have remembered anything of it.

by seaborgium Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:52 am

he does post the truth IF you are trying to fix it fast.

Time fixes more items, so if you take it at a pace then your fine.

by Mystake Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:42 am

Kenzu, I have time and time again countered any and every post in here.

I am dancing CIRCLES around you and you're in the middle all dizzy looking like you don't know whats going on.

Not my fault I make good points and I bluntly point out the reality of the game.

by Nomad Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:42 pm

You have countered nothing, danced around nothing, and made not a single good point as of yet.

You have yet to explain why those who WANT a game and a system that does not allow SGW style feeding with no limitations should agree with you.

All your doing is asking for this game to become just like all the other games, where you dont have to build your own account, where a 1 day/week/month old account can take down the oldest and biggest in the game, and where resources are unlimited.

If thats what you want then I'll give you a list of games that follow that. Other wise show a system that limits or stops feeding, keeps resources finite, and make each person build their own accounts for the most part.

Unless you can do that you have done nothing to show anything better then the system we have.

by kingkongfan1 Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:02 pm

Mystake wrote:Kenzu, I have time and time again countered any and every post in here.

I am dancing CIRCLES around you and you're in the middle all dizzy looking like you don't know whats going on.

Not my fault I make good points and I bluntly point out the reality of the game.

@Mystake, all you have proven IMO is that you do not take the time to do a little reading before you charge in & try to stir stuff up, had you taken the time to do a little research you would have found in the section titled "Ingame Development", under "Released Updates" a thread titled "Trade Balance System" in this thread everything that you have tried to bring up has already been brought up & discussed, so you nothing you have brought up is origional, its all been discussed before... for every reason you come up with to get rid of the PTR, there are 2 reasons to keep it, I will say this again, the PTR system is not perfect, it does have its drawbacks, but its better than anything else put forth so far, & as far as I am concerned anyone who doesn't like it can go play any of the numerous other games on the web, there are plenty of games that will cater to what you want... Admin has already stated more than once that PTR is here to stay, so either come up with something useful, or STFU plain & simple...

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