Commander/officer ratio

Admin wrote:you can pay 153.33% of the suggested rate

is that max before you redline?

thats rather substantial

135K now so thats 135000* 1.53 = 206,550 per and not redline over an extended period of time.

Thats about what many were paying.

that's the max before any redlining and hence ANY NEGATIVE IMPACT WHATSOEVER.

I've changed my rate to be within the 115% range in order not to redline my officers. I think this proves the point that I cannot pay whatever rate I want.
I am disappointed that the suggested rate still is 75% of Global market rate, rather than 100% or 110%, or based on average CO rates for active officers and suggest that this change be made. If you want I can put the suggestion in another thread. Please make an evaluation after a month or so to see how average CO pay compares to UU price.
The 115% upper limit is somewhat doable and makes the problem much less than it was when the upper limit was 100%. Thanks for giving us that much.

Jiro wrote:I think this proves the point that I cannot pay whatever rate I want.

No it doesn't

Admin wrote:

Jiro wrote:I think this proves the point that I cannot pay whatever rate I want.

No it doesn't

OK, you're right, in the same sense that I am allowed to do anything, but I might get punished for doing some things .
Please tell me that you've read the rest as well and will rethink your suggested rate in a month or so.
In my opinion the current setup favours CO's, because even at 100% of Global market value they gain most by the officer/CO relationship. I will let it rest here.

here is the setup...

my "commander" has a tendency to overpay, so to keep our "commander to officer" ratio fairly equal I would send kuwal payments to him periodically under the "old" PTR system.

here is the question,

under the "new" PTR system, is this something I will still need to consider? or exactly how will the whole "commander & officer" relationship work under this new system? I haven't found any info concerning this subject yet & was wondering.

kingkongfan1 wrote:here is the setup...

my "commander" has a tendency to overpay, so to keep our "commander to officer" ratio fairly equal I would send kuwal payments to him periodically under the "old" PTR system.

here is the question,

under the "new" PTR system, is this something I will still need to consider? or exactly how will the whole "commander & officer" relationship work under this new system? I haven't found any info concerning this subject yet & was wondering.

In short, your brokers will counteract the high pay your commander pays you.
BUT, you have to make sure that you mark your broker as Transfer to Commander.
If you mark it a regular trade, then it still counteracts the high pay your commander pays you, but this will not be visible on the officer page, because the game will not know that your broker was meant to counteract the commander payments.

If he pays you more than he should, and at the same time you regularly make brokers to him to balance it out, then it will also balance out your trade balance, meaning that you will remain to have the same proportion of resources that you can send away as the proportion of resources that you can receive. (I say proportion, because the amount will increase on both sides over time due to your production).

Kenzu wrote:

kingkongfan1 wrote:here is the setup...

my "commander" has a tendency to overpay, so to keep our "commander to officer" ratio fairly equal I would send kuwal payments to him periodically under the "old" PTR system.

here is the question,

under the "new" PTR system, is this something I will still need to consider? or exactly how will the whole "commander & officer" relationship work under this new system? I haven't found any info concerning this subject yet & was wondering.

In short, your brokers will counteract the high pay your commander pays you.
BUT, you have to make sure that you mark your broker as Transfer to Commander.
If you mark it a regular trade, then it still counteracts the high pay your commander pays you, but this will not be visible on the officer page, because the game will not know that your broker was meant to counteract the commander payments.

If he pays you more than he should, and at the same time you regularly make brokers to him to balance it out, then it will also balance out your trade balance, meaning that you will remain to have the same proportion of resources that you can send away as the proportion of resources that you can receive. (I say proportion, because the amount will increase on both sides over time due to your production).

Thank you for this info, but please explain to me how am I, as an officer supposed to know when the ratio is off balanced so I know when to send a payment? I cannot access the info with this "new" setup that I could with the "old" setup. I do not have access to any "officer page" as you called it. I think that is only accessible by my commander, so please point me to where I can find the info I need to monitor the situation.

as of this moment, the officer does not see such a page as I haven't figured out a good place to put it, most likely i'll drop it in the income details page where it already shows how much you get from your commander and what rate they pay
So I thought of dropping that ratio stuff into the tooltip for that row

On the other hand, both you and the commander will receive a pseudo broker that contains this balance payment (obviously no real resources are actually getting transferred) however you can then exactly see how much has been transferred and what you need to pay to completely negate this transfer.


I'll add 2 more things:
- If you make a broker to commander/officer, the broker is actually tagged by default as that, there are literally zero potential negative effects for you if you make it a commander/officer trade even if you didn't want to do it.
- Even if you dont tag it as such. And transfer the amount that should have been paid, your personal transfer limit will get adjusted correctly

In short, the only real difference it will make is that if the trade isn't tagged (or rather untagged), on the officer details page it will still show that there is a missing payment (however there won't be any negative aftereffects since that missing payment had already been corrected by the system and recorded as such)

Admin wrote:as of this moment, the officer does not see such a page as I haven't figured out a good place to put it, most likely i'll drop it in the income details page where it already shows how much you get from your commander and what rate they pay
So I thought of dropping that ratio stuff into the tooltip for that row

On the other hand, both you and the commander will receive a pseudo broker that contains this balance payment (obviously no real resources are actually getting transferred) however you can then exactly see how much has been transferred and what you need to pay to completely negate this transfer.


I'll add 2 more things:
- If you make a broker to commander/officer, the broker is actually tagged by default as that, there are literally zero potential negative effects for you if you make it a commander/officer trade even if you didn't want to do it.
- Even if you dont tag it as such. And transfer the amount that should have been paid, your personal transfer limit will get adjusted correctly

In short, the only real difference it will make is that if the trade isn't tagged (or rather untagged), on the officer details page it will still show that there is a missing payment (however there won't be any negative aftereffects since that missing payment had already been corrected by the system and recorded as such)

thank you for the info...

**EDIT**

Just read the "updates" page & saw the following,

- "If you have officers and pay them too much or too little, and dont make use of the tradebroker to correct these payment ratios, then your send/receive limit will get adjusted at regular intervals to reflect the resources transferred this way."

& this,

Officer ratios, if kept too long at a non-acceptable value will now automatically simulate a transfer of resources to or from the commander (with a corresponding change in the transfer limits of both players). Both players can reverse this change in their transfer limits if they create a broker with the corresponding missing payment that is displayed in the officer details page.

now I have to ask again... "Where do I, as an officer to another player, find the info I need to be able to make brokers to my "commander" to keep the ratio equal? or will I need to depend upon my "commander" to maintain the equality of the ratio?

I would like to see a much better explanation, and a much better system put in place than this.

If I am not allowed to over pay my officers then please just add a small adjustment to the officer pay screen. Where it presently says

Suggestion 289,580

Can we get a box added that says "+/- 157,867" (The number is random)
This will tell me EXACTLY how much I am allowed to pay without waking up to my money being brokered away, or having a boat load of funds sent to me I am not expecting. Just to be completely honest I would like to see it just hard capped to a set max rate and be done. Much easier. Then if a commander wants to pay more he can do a normal broker or an officer broker.

I personally hate the fact brokers to officers are automatically made into "officer/commander" brokers. Why was this done and for what reason if I might ask? Any way we can get this turned off as its just another step that's wasted and often forgot for someone who trades alot.

I will start a new thread for the other questions I have on the updates.


The main point is, if its not going to be allowed, then hard cap it, why create a work around for something not allowed?

yeah, like this guy said! (on the last line of the post)

Special Agent 47 wrote:This will tell me EXACTLY how much I am allowed to pay without waking up to my money being brokered away

No one has ever said a single word about resources actually being transferred in these brokers, I've repeatedly explained that the brokers are only fictive. Could you please explain how you came to that opposite conclusion?

I will chaulk it up to my poor understanding of how the system works, and not properly grasping the explination you have given.

So if I am understanding you correctly, what is actually happening is No transfer happens, but a fake trade is produced to move the weight of the bad ratio (I do not know the correct word to use) to the non officer/commander part of the system?

I would still just like to know the max amount I can pay my officers and not have this happen.

I now get that your not hard capping it because you want to allow commanders to over pay officers if they want, but you have negatively effect there transfer ratio in the proper way.

1) ok
2) exactly
3) will be looked into
4) yes (or underpay to some extent)

Yeah..I am still not getting what's going on o.o
Will people that are being paid those redicilous 700K per UU have to broker to their commanders, or are those pseudo brokers gonna "fix" it for them?
also, I also would like to be able to see the MAX amount i'm allowed to pay to my officers(although I don't do so at the moment. because crappy economics are crappy for me :3)

SovietMan wrote:Will people that are being paid those redicilous 700K per UU have to broker to their commanders, or are those pseudo brokers gonna "fix" it for them?

No one needs to do anything anymore, it's all automatic now. Everyone has the option of reversing it easily if they want to

SovietMan wrote:Yeah..I am still not getting what's going on o.o
Will people that are being paid those redicilous 700K per UU have to broker to their commanders, or are those pseudo brokers gonna "fix" it for them?
also, I also would like to be able to see the MAX amount i'm allowed to pay to my officers(although I don't do so at the moment. because crappy economics are crappy for me :3)

What do you mean by maximum allowed? You can pay as much as you want.

Do you mean what is the maximum price you can pay so it doesnt influence your transfer limits at all?

yeah, maximum rate without going into the red. is it 120%? 140%?

SovietMan wrote:yeah, maximum rate without going into the red. is it 120%? 140%?

bottom of officerdetails page:

Everything above 115% or below 65% will be treated the same like sending resources to other players.

note: Suggested rate is 75%

So the maximum you look for is:

Maximum = Suggested rate /75 *115

Minimum = Suggested rate /75 *65

Why is the rate set at 75%?

Special Agent 47 wrote:Why is the rate set at 75%?

Because at 75% the commander and the officer split the benefit fifty fifty.

The reason its 75% and not 50% is because for each 2 UU the commander gets, the officer loses 1 UU. (officer loses 10% UP, created a 20% UP benefit that goes to the commander)

So what fair price for each of the 2 UU should the commander pay so that he reimburses the officer fully for the 1 lost UU and splits the gain on the 2nd UU?

Commander would have to pay the full price for the 1st UU, and half price for the 2nd UU.

100%+50%=150%
150%/2=75%

Therefore commander should pay 75%

Numerically:
Commander gained 2 UU = +800.000
Officer lost 1 UU = -400.000

1 UU = 400.000
75% = 300.000

Commander should pay 2 x 300.000 to officer (600.000)

Commander = 800.000 - 600.000 = 200.000 profit
Officer = -400.000 + 600.000 = 200.000 profit

what's the point in having a HIGH paying commander if you send the extra kuwal, he is giving to you, back?

There isn't one.