Race Balancing

by Vesper Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:35 am

I am sure that this was recommended before but I will give my suggestion of how races can be balanced

# Hualu [Balanced]: NO Bank Fees Charged
# Attack Weapon Advancements 2% LESS expensive
# Defense Weapon Advancements 2% LESS expensive
# Spy Skill Advancements 2% LESS expensive
# Assassin Skill Advancements 2% LESS expensive
# Basic Covert Technologies 2% LESS expensive
# Basic Defense Technologies 2% LESS expensive
# Basic Attack Technologies 2% LESS expensive
# Basic Assassin Technologies 2% LESS expensive
# Can have up to 60% of all personal points in any stat (Defense, Covert, Income, Attack)

# Kyora [Covert]: 1% of Bank Deposits lost as Fees
# Basic Covert Technologies 20% LESS expensive
# Spy Skill Advancements 15% LESS expensive
# Can have up to 80% of all personal points in Covert (up to 50% in all others)

# Miraya [Defense]: 1% of Bank Deposits lost as Fees
# Basic Defense Technologies 25% LESS expensive
# Weapon Advancements 20% LESS expensive
# Can have up to 80% of all personal points in Defense (up to 50% in all others)

# Daning [Attack]: 1% of Bank Deposits lost as Fees
# Basic Attack Technologies 25% LESS expensive
# Attack Weapon Advancements 20% LESS expensive
# Can have up to 80% of all personal points in Attack (up to 50% in all others)

Attack Bonus (1 Point equals to 1.25% increase in attack)
Defense Bonus (1 Point equals to 1.5% increase in defense)
Covert Bonus (1 Point equals to 1.75% increase in covert)
Income Bonus (1 Point equals to 0.5% increase in income)

Most people are Huala or Kyora I think. We can make the defense and strike specialist races more appealing by making the personal points matter more in favor of those races. Also slightly raising the discount for the Daning and Miraya. I also think that Reducing the bank fee to 1% or 1.5% would drive more people to part with Huala.

by Admin Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:54 am

how about the bonuses that are on reset, i.e.:
30% bonus instead of the current 20%
1.5% bank fee

and additionally, hualu cannot have more than 50% points in one stat.

by Lord Ishurue Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:05 pm

Admin wrote:how about the bonuses that are on reset, i.e.:
30% bonus instead of the current 20%
1.5% bank fee

and additionally, hualu cannot have more than 50% points in one stat.

I disagree with that . Then Kyora would get nerfed . 2% covert bonus is fine .

by Admin Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:29 pm

Lord Ishurue wrote:I disagree with that . Then Kyora would get nerfed . 2% covert bonus is fine .

how would kyora get nerfed?

by Kenzu Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:13 pm

i agree with lowering deposit fee to 1%
everything else I dont think is necessary

I would change attack bonus to 1.3%
so its same as defense

at the same time Hualu should not have 60% in all stats max
but 50%, so that Hualu is either balanced in 2 stats or uses 3 stats. Afterall Hualu is supposed to be a balanced race

all other races should have 80% in the main stat and 40% in the other stats as maximum

by seaborgium Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:36 pm

if you change the atk bonus to the same as the def, then wants the point?

by Admin Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:36 pm

seaborgium wrote:if you change the atk bonus to the same as the def, then wants the point?

two players can play with each other, who can build the bigger def vs who can build the bigger strike

about the bonuses I'd rather use the reset idea that there are set BASE values, and those can increase if too few people use said bonus. So if only 12.5% of points would be in income instead of the expected 25%, then the income bonus would be double until the % increases again.

that coupled with people being able to change 1 point per day could make the bonuses more interesting to create opportunities for profit in both economy and war

by Nomad Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:39 pm

Admin wrote:
seaborgium wrote:if you change the atk bonus to the same as the def, then wants the point?
two players can play with each other, who can build the bigger def vs who can build the bigger strike

about the bonuses I'd rather use the reset idea that there are set BASE values, and those can increase if too few people use said bonus. So if only 12.5% of points would be in income instead of the expected 25%, then the income bonus would be double until the % increases again.

that coupled with people being able to change 1 point per day could make the bonuses more interesting to create opportunities for profit in both economy and war

Admin you know its a known fact that strike can grow faster then defense. You NEVER gain anything from a defense, while you gain income from a strike. If you even the strike and def bonuses then its a fact that accounts with exact stats, the defender will lose every time.

Only thing I have against changing bonuses based on how many use what bonus is I like to Know what my bonus is, and I dont like my bonus being changed by others without my permission, but thats just me. I'm not totally against the idea, but "specialist" accounts are just that, specialist. Why is my "balanced" account punished? The haula can not stop a dannings attack, can not breech a miraya's defense, and can not defend a koyoras covert attacks if they are all manned exactly the same, so why make them stronger in their specialty and me weaker in my balance against them?n Haula suffer enough by not being a specialist.

I do very much want to see the 1 point redistrobution brought to main, i think it should be there now.

by Vesper Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:36 am

I disagree with the races getting 80% bonuses as limits. I think more like 50% of each stat for huala makes sense and then 75% at most for the specialized races. I would think more 65 to 70% along with using the rates on reset. With the cost of techs now if I was kyora on main I would be gaining almost 70% covert bonus which would be worth nearly 900bil worth of tech investments. So there definately should be some sort of personal bonus adjusting as 900bil is ALOT of money. I think Kyora is overpowered now, huala is the "safe" race, and then daning and miraya are still overlooked.

I like how reset is set up, definitely more balanced then main but I still feel a little uncomfortable with the races. I tried each race on reset and now I just have a hard time picking huala or kyora. I keep switching back and forth with them still. I think kyora needs a minor nerf and daning and miraya need minor boosts. Maybe even if you kept kyroa the same except reduced deposit fee to same as daning and miraya but raised the cost reduction of just miraya and daning to 30%. Also the personal stats will do a crucial role since right now most people are kyora just for the 2% gain from the stats (they can put 80% of their stats points into covert) . I think making that the 1.75% would make the other races more appealing.

Perhaps 1.75% covert, 1.2% strike, and 1.4% defense, .2% income gain maybe even .25% to get people moved away from the stat bonuses. As Huala that offers around 5% income gain which isnt much but a good amount that may convince people to mix their styles a bit.

by Admin Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:03 am

Nomad wrote:Only thing I have against changing bonuses based on how many use what bonus is I like to Know what my bonus is, and I dont like my bonus being changed by others without my permission, but thats just me.

The bonus itself has a base value. If even 80% of people pick it, then it will still have the same value.
It can only increase if it's "the underdog"

Hence, worst case scenario, you have your bonus. Best case, you'll be alone and get much more per point (on reset I capped it at 3 times the base value but that means less than 8% of points used would have to be on one particular bonus, that's not at risk happening anytime soon)

by Nomad Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:36 pm

Admin wrote:
Nomad wrote:Only thing I have against changing bonuses based on how many use what bonus is I like to Know what my bonus is, and I dont like my bonus being changed by others without my permission, but thats just me.
The bonus itself has a base value. If even 80% of people pick it, then it will still have the same value.
It can only increase if it's "the underdog"

Hence, worst case scenario, you have your bonus. Best case, you'll be alone and get much more per point (on reset I capped it at 3 times the base value but that means less than 8% of points used would have to be on one particular bonus, that's not at risk happening anytime soon)

OK, I can accept that I guess.

Thanks for the explination.

by Lord Ishurue Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:05 pm

Admin wrote:
Lord Ishurue wrote:I disagree with that . Then Kyora would get nerfed . 2% covert bonus is fine .
how would kyora get nerfed?

the covert bonus getting weakened to 1.75% per point .

It adds up when u have 80% in covert .

a 63% bonus vs a 72% covert bonus a 11% decrease in power .

by Admin Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:04 pm

I have a suggestion

daning and miraya get a discount in weapon upkeep
kyora already has spies which are both offense as well as defense

by Lord Ishurue Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:57 pm

Admin wrote:I have a suggestion

daning and miraya get a discount in weapon upkeep
kyora already has spies which are both offense as well as defense

sounds cool to me . But please leave the covert bonus at 2% . If want you can always make the covert bonus stronger Very Happy

by Miglow Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:24 pm

"I have a suggestion

daning and miraya get a discount in weapon upkeep
kyora already has spies which are both offense as well as defense"

I like this idea better than messing around with the bonus point system. It makes up for having the bank fees, and if done right could end up saving a specialized races more kuwal in the long run than hualu does.

I'm assuming the attack race would get a discount on attack weapons and defense race a discount on defense weapons, right?

by Casshern Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:44 pm

so idea is to totally nerf huala again. think might be time to change for me as 1% nothing for a bank fee wasn't happy when it was brought down to 2 % but only 1% with bonus other races get huala not attractive anymore really

by Admin Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:16 pm

i dont think the idea is to nerf hualu actually.

more like a general brainstorm, along with the personal bonuses, since they also partially affect the "strength" of a race

by Nomad Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:20 pm

Miglow wrote:
I'm assuming the attack race would get a discount on attack weapons and defense race a discount on defense weapons, right?

I have the same question.

by Admin Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:37 pm

yes, daning would get discount on attack
miraya discount on defense

by Nomad Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:01 pm

Just an oddball thought, don't know how useful or skewing it may be.

What about making training cheaper for the races?
Daning get slightly decresed att training
Miraya decreased def training
Koraya get decreased spy, possibly assassin training

As for Haulu IDK if it would be income units cheaper, or a small decrease to all military or none at all?

just an idea

So training a super is 150,000, well att supers for danning are 125,000 etc, etc, etc, maybe haulu get 140,000 for all ,,,idk

by Magnus Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:43 pm

Well I like Nomads Idea, but do have to agree that huala is getting less and less attractive. Since the only real small advantage they have are the banking fees I would suggest the training of the income units to be a bit less costly. Otherwise the other units have a real advantage over them and the race will become obsolete in the future.

by Casshern Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:35 am

main advantage of huala was no banking fee while others got bonuses in other areas. With the banking fee being reduced again the others races are striding ahead of huala while not losing out to any extent on the banking side.
under the new proposal banking would be free but would only be 8% cheaper to buy techs while other races have have 4 to five times the saving on them. thus unless a person is taking in and out kuwal needlessly going to take a long time for them to reach the level of loss huala has when building techs. This was a shorter period for it to balance out before and with a decrease again the other races become a better prospect.
personal point ratio are not huge incentive for races personally

by Jiro Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:51 am

For me the 0% banking fee is attractive mainly because I don't like to do any calculations when withdrawing Kuwal from the bank. So I withdraw all, pay and then deposit what is left.
It's the main reason I am still Hualu.

by Nomad Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:09 am

Me as well, but if Hualu keep getting weaker while everyone else gets stronger its no longer worth it. Hualu cant defend from Danning, cant overcome the miriaya, and cant hide from the Koyora, I mean I like a balanced race far more the speciaty, but Hualu is getting to weak to compete anymore

jmo

by Vesper Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:07 am

Well I personally support Huala in getting weaker. I have been huala since I started this game. Most people have been. I would think over half of the server is huala right now. Admin can probably figure out these stats more accurately but if I was to estimate I would say 70% of the server is Huala, 25% Kyora, and the rest are either Miraya or Daning. If giving more power to Daning and Miraya gets more people to play them over Huala so be it. That is the ultimate goal here isnt it? Create more diversity on the server?

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