Race change

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Race change

Post by Nomad on Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:42 am

I'm not so much making a suggestion as simply wanting discussion on the matter to get others points of veiws.

Presently doing a race change costs you
Changing your Race incurs the following penalties:
- 10% decrease in Basic Technologies
- Decrease by one level in Weapon, Spy Skill and Assassin Skill enhancements
- Armory Inventory Erased (NOT sold, but ERASED)

presently this would cost me roughly 35 bill kewal, assuming having 110% in basic technologies set you back to 100% or back to scratch. Thats roughly 51.5 days of my income just to get back to where I was before the race change.

Now whats going to happen with another weapons tech or 2 or 3 more spy/assasin levels?

This is a truely massive cost, and one that just gets more staggering with time.

anyone else have an opinion on the matter?
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Re: Race change

Post by Admin on Sat Jun 13, 2009 5:19 am

I welcome any suggestions on that matter, dont forget it's mainly there cos of the bonuses the races give. So that you can't be miraya, get some high weapons level then change to kyora to get high spy and assassin level and then change to whatever you like
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Re: Race change

Post by Kenzu on Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:41 am

I say when you change your race all your researched techs which have something to do with race bonuses, like weapon level, will be sold for the same amount of money and then rebought with the prices of the new race.
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Re: Race change

Post by Sandwalker on Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:08 am

Admin wrote:I welcome any suggestions on that matter, dont forget it's mainly there cos of the bonuses the races give. So that you can't be miraya, get some high weapons level then change to kyora to get high spy and assassin level and then change to whatever you like

You could downgrade only the things that race has bonuses in. For example for Kyora spy and assassin training and covert techs.

It all depends really on whether you want to punish someone for changing race or just keep them from taking advantage of it. If you just want to keep them fro mtaking advantage of it, you could just ask for the price difference in kuwal when changing from that race. If he paid 500 mil less (in total) on specific techs then he would have as the race he's going to, he'll have to have 500 mil kuwal in the bank when changing to that race.

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Re: Race change

Post by chaos on Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:47 am

i see no problem with a large cost to race change.
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Re: Race change

Post by Nomad on Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:51 pm

Well a large cost is one thing, but one that increases dramaticly over time is another thing. I'm willing to bet the cost out paces the rise in incomes to compenate for it, and will for some time depending on the cost for levels and such.


Guess my point is, it is a valid tactic to race change in the early months/yrs of a game. As a late starter going with a money race is suicide if you cant compensate for the strikes running around, thats why most go with a defensive race till they get their footing, then maybe try something else.

I also prefer a static cost. I dont see why it can cost 1 person 1 bill and another 50 bill for the same action, but thats JMO

also, if you had 200% in "basic research technolgy attack techs" would the 10% losses you accuire be 10 levels or 20 levels? at 100% a race change should knock you down to 90%. at 110% it should knock you down to 99%. Unless the % is based on anything over 100%.


I dont mind the cost being greater then the benifit, its its a massive cost now, and will be unthinkable in 6months to a year.

Maybe allow free race changes 1 time a year or something? or make the cost race specific. make it so you loss 200% of what ever you gained being that race?

I dont see limits on race changes like on personal stat changes, maybe just allow 1 race change every 6 months to 1 year or something?

IDK, but welcome the discussion on it. I think it needs adjusting.
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Re: Race change

Post by Admin on Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:49 pm

1) it will always be the same relative cost
2) tech can't go below 100%, consider the 100% mark is 0, so if you have 200% (100 upgrades) you will drop to 190% (90 upgrades)
3) might consider making the cost race dependant so it really only costs you stuff you had cheaper while you were that race
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Re: Race change

Post by Sandwalker on Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:03 pm

Admin wrote:
3) might consider making the cost race dependant so it really only costs you stuff you had cheaper while you were that race

bingo.

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Re: Race change

Post by Nomad on Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:57 pm

Admin wrote:1) it will always be the same relative cost
2) tech can't go below 100%, consider the 100% mark is 0, so if you have 200% (100 upgrades) you will drop to 190% (90 upgrades)
3) might consider making the cost race dependant so it really only costs you stuff you had cheaper while you were that race

Explain 1

TY for point 2

I think its a good idea, but also now realise it will bring another problem. There are no limits i can find on race changes, so in theory one could switch to the attacking race to attack, or the covert race to sabb and then switch to the def race for retaliation. Doesnt seem real viable, but could happen. might want to limit it in some form or fashion. either by count or by time. IDK
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Re: Race change

Post by Admin on Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:56 pm

Nomad wrote:
Explain 1

TY for point 2

I think its a good idea, but also now realise it will bring another problem. There are no limits i can find on race changes, so in theory one could switch to the attacking race to attack, or the covert race to sabb and then switch to the def race for retaliation. Doesnt seem real viable, but could happen. might want to limit it in some form or fashion. either by count or by time. IDK
1) well lets say right now you'd need to pay 10 bil kuwal for lost weapon level, weapons, spy and assassin skills and some techs if you're an above average level account . Would be a good amount of your income 2-3 weeks.
Even 1 year from now, if the current system is left, the cost wouldn't be 10 bil but maybe 10 tril, but it'd still be 2-3 weeks of your income. So relatively speaking it's still the same cost. What is important is not the absolute number but the relative time needed to produce said amount

well I am considering about a system where it calculates how much you gained by being your current race, then you need to pay 5-10 times the amount you SAVED. (if you spent 15 bil on weapons and you're the attack race so you saved 1.5 bil, then to change the race you'd need to save up 7.5-15 bil into your bank as a race change cost). So no chance of doing exploits and would significantly lower the cost from it's current state
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Re: Race change

Post by Nomad on Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:06 pm

Admin wrote:
1) well lets say right now you'd need to pay 10 bil kuwal for lost weapon level, weapons, spy and assassin skills and some techs if you're an above average level account . Would be a good amount of your income 2-3 weeks.
Even 1 year from now, if the current system is left, the cost wouldn't be 10 bil but maybe 10 tril, but it'd still be 2-3 weeks of your income. So relatively speaking it's still the same cost. What is important is not the absolute number but the relative time needed to produce said amount

well I am considering about a system where it calculates how much you gained by being your current race, then you need to pay 5-10 times the amount you SAVED. (if you spent 15 bil on weapons and you're the attack race so you saved 1.5 bil, then to change the race you'd need to save up 7.5-15 bil into your bank as a race change cost). So no chance of doing exploits and would significantly lower the cost from it's current state

1, I still see it differently. right now a week old account could race change for basicly nothing where it costs me 35+ bill. In 1 year someone could come back and race change for nothing since they build nothing and id have to pay 350+bill,,,, just appears as a punishment for actually playing is all.

2. sounds difficult but ideal, all save the income race since there is not much of a way to know what they saved in banking fees.
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Re: Race change

Post by Admin on Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:19 pm

Nomad wrote:
1, I still see it differently. right now a week old account could race change for basicly nothing where it costs me 35+ bill. In 1 year someone could come back and race change for nothing since they build nothing and id have to pay 350+bill,,,, just appears as a punishment for actually playing is all.

2. sounds difficult but ideal, all save the income race since there is not much of a way to know what they saved in banking fees.
1) you have a wrong understanding of how this works then. In that case i'm sure you'd still appreciate having that big account that needs to pay 350+ bil to change a race rather than that small account which can do a race change for nothing
2) wouldn't really be difficult cos i'd show how much you'd need to pay before you can do a race change, and income race well you can simply consider how much money they saved when getting the upgrades since that's the only thing that is being considered, additionally you can buy most of the upgrades without needing to bank anything at all, just go on a 2 day protection (and take a loan) and you can easily have 800 mil together
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Re: Race change

Post by Nomad on Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:02 am

Any word/motion on this?
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Re: Race change

Post by Admin on Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:30 pm

will start/finish work on this and other things about saturday/sunday, expect updates to start coming in shortly after that
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Re: Race change

Post by Nomad on Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:30 pm

TY admin.
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Re: Race change

Post by Admin on Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:07 pm

Working now on the calculation formula for the sum of kuwal invested in techs and will then set race change cost simply being 150-200% of the kuwal value you saved by being the race you are.
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Re: Race change

Post by Admin on Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:02 pm

New race change system coded and released.

The cost associated with the change is ten times the amount you saved by being your current race to achieve your current levels of technology

On monday when race changes get improved, the cost to change race will be equal to the amount you saved by being your current race (so 10 times cheaper than it is now). Duration of this effect will be ~24 Hours.
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