Be All Thy Sins Remembered

quick sumary prove was given that your co was ~b a mmebr of the cabal that wa [ittign fire and tie to war. Evedince was ip from emails sent to Lord iShurne and ip adress of TiE forum log in

no evidence has been posted to disprove the IP evidence other then i was hacked

You Co has no quit the game so you might want to look for a new 1

jope tahst brief enuff

and btw

bnah bah bah i r the black sheep

Back in your cage, little sheep. You're out of your league and lack the basic function to comprehend what's happening here.

*grin* You know there's no way to disprove IP evidence, that's why it's such a cunning frame-job. *chuckles* What a sham.
So I don't attempt to disprove IP evidence. No. Of course not.. for all I know that IP is a forgery as well! :? Who received that message? Ishurue, right? Not like Ish and me have been on speaking terms, what with me butting into every single one of his important threads.. me being among the first targets to fall under FIRE's assault implies I'm not the most loved person over there. *grin* And since it's so easy to find an IP (as my esteemed opponents showed us), it sure as hell is just as easy to plant an IP into a header when you're citing it to someone who never received the message. And how would Ishurue possibly have access to my IP? Well.. I hear it's "hella easy", but if all else fails, we still have our great admin Ian who just has to click one single button at any post of mine to have it.
But that would just be my word against theirs, and while it would fit right into the whole ~B story -divulging information where necessary, applying social engineering to facilitate their needs-.. I will just say, I never sent a message to Ishurue, ingame or by any email I use.


Now, little sheep, back in your cage. My quitting date just got postponed.

i was never in cage cages dont hopld me neither do padded rooms but your officer asked for a sumary i provided one. I think i woudl believed the i m innocrent my email ip was sppofed more then i was hacked lien just me personaly sory

Bah bah bah for i r the black sheep

Okay, I understand that, Superkingtsob. Someone asked me earlier today, "Who provided that IP? Are they trustworthy? Could they have malicious intent?"
So I started thinking, and **Filtered** me, the one who gives my IP out freely -Ishurue- is a man I have never known to like me. After I consider how easy it is to extract an IP address, something I hear from various people, I consider how then, would my email appear in that message if I would not be hacked. My earlier assumption that the hacker who stole money from me was the same as the one who sent those messages, is far less likely to be true as someone forging my IP into the quotes pertaining to the header of that email.

So forgive me, for leaping to the conclusion that the one who stole money from me was the same one who tries to blame me for **Filtered** that happens on an online game, just because the theft and the accusations coincide! Were you in my shoes, with as little initial knowledge about hacking as I did/do (just read Dune's comment.. our resident IT guy nearly vomited when reading my a-technical expose a few pages ago).. you would come to the same conclusion, I am quite sure of that. Or you must be endlessly more composed and calm as I am? Is my leap that odd? And similarly, is it that odd that I revise my suspicions based on increasing knowledge of the subject matter? Looking back, accusing anyone on an online game forum of hacking is rather far fetched, I admit that. I still stand by my point, that it is a logical leap of thought, though.

I stand by what I have said. I did not send a message to Ishurue. That message that appears as though it comes from me, implying that I am ~B, does not originate from my computer, and I am not that **Filtered** ~B.

I am, and have been, loyal to The Imperium from the day I joined them. And trust me, SA knows -at the very least- the lessons I have learned from my past.
So crucify me, mass me, sit on me, I could care less, you're attacking the wrong person. I know the truth, and that truth is -as I have said plenty of times now- that I did not send that message, and that I am not ~B. I have every reason to believe Ian is ~B, but I can not substantiate that beyond what I have said on the previous page, so I am not inclined to continue that discussion.

You asked me the question, "if not you, then who?" I told you who I believe is the ONLY one left with the same -and more- knowledge I had, and that so happens to be my accuser, a man admittedly capable of underhanded tactics, deceit, lies and manipulation, with not only the means, but the motive as well! What a surprise. And equally surprising is that my defence sucks. I cannot reasonably defend myself if I cannot begin to understand the nature of the evidence against me.
I didn't **Filtered** do it, stop telling me I did, because I'm not that senile that I would not remember what I said to whom about what, when and how. I will not be your **Filtered** scapegoat.


(And Super, fair enough. The cage comment was out of line, I apologise for that abuse.)

Hmmmm..... I have to apologise to Ian - I really did underestimate her. She has a way with lies and manipulation through words that is quite astounding.

Your still missing the point Universe - You have not provided ANY evidence to back your story up

Heres one - Each crime that is reported gets a case number given by the police to identify it in the database. IF you really have been hacked you should be able to give us that number. I believe it is possible to make general inquires on the current status of an investigation so if you give us your real name and hometown we can check weather you really are the victim of cyber-crime.

OR maybe you have something better in mind.

The fact that your trying to shift blame from yourself to Ian is just plain stupid. I dont even know why he has to explain to anyone why this has nothing to do with him. I think your clutching at straws which is making you look desperate and pathetic. Stop, have some dignity woman.

That was some refreshing read.


No. I still believe there may or may not be some connection between the hacking and you guys. I am not going to give you any personal information that you do not already have. Don't be ridiculous. I don't trust you, you **Filtered**, why would I trust you with my personal information? *facepalm* I am not going to go through the trouble of divulging personal information only to discover some **Filtered** thinks it's funny to cause me any physical harm, or steal more of my stuff.

As I said, and as you have missed again, there is a chance the two events merely coincided. I have difficulty believing that, especially since I know and experience the zealousness with which you defend yourselves on an online game's forum.. I have heard stories about RuneScape, where similarly zealous people have assaulted others for less than what you accuse me of. So excuse me, but you will not get any personal information from me. If that means you don't believe me, fine. I can live with a damaged E-reputation better than with a broken nose, to take an extreme example. That is not unreasonable. That is not avoiding the issue. That is plain and simple, a balancing of risk versus benefit. .. And well.. I have to say, my daily life has priority over this forum/game/group.



Look, Hai. I know you will not believe me, no matter what I say. I don't care. I don't give a flying **Filtered** about how you see my 'dignity', you mistrustful pig. I didn't bloody do what you're accusing me of, and that's the end of it. To demand personal information of me is ridiculous. I don't trust you, or anyone of your lot. So, no way that's happening.

As I've said before, I know I cannot disprove the whole thing. So instead, I say "I didn't do it", and give a plausible alternative which you can't get your thick head around, apparently. You know.. *grin* you're not just underestimating me. You're underestimating ian, or you're in on the plan, or whatever the hell it is that's wrong with you, accusing me that blind to other options.

You put the blame on me. I say, "I didn't do it". You say "If not you, the who the F*** else?" To which I say, "I have no idea. The only common factor in all this is Ian." That's shifting the blame? **Filtered** you. That's called a defence, and poor as it may be due to my lack of understanding, I didn't do it.

Your real name and the general area you live in is not personal information that can be used against you. Quite a few people here know my real name if they manage to catch me on msn and to anyone who cares i live in Derbyshire. Good luck to anyone who want to try and use just 2 pieces of information to cause me any grievance.

As to the case number of your police investigation - that isnt personal information. I could do a search for all reported crimes in your area and id get a list. If i knew your name we could confirm that you were infact the victim of such a crime.

So actually I'm not asking for much. Currently (seeing as you seem to think this has RL consequences) if you were to be but infront of a jury with the evidence you we have you would be found guilty without a doubt. "He could have done it too" is not a defence.

"I didnt do it" is also not a defence - that would be a plea. One which would mean your sentence is harsher than a guilty plea.

Now im kinda tired about the crap your spewing about "sheep", "puppet" or "Look, Hai. I know you will not believe me, no matter what I say. I don't care. I don't give a flying **Filtered** about how you see my 'dignity', you mistrustful pig. I didn't bloody do what you're accusing me of, and that's the end of it. To demand personal information of me is ridiculous. I don't trust you, or anyone of your lot. So, no way that's happening."

You failed to realise i put out an order for all hostile actions against you to stop when i realised you had been convicted without being given a chance to explain yourself. However once i found out the full details which Ian, Vesper and Dune filled me in on I made the PERSONAL decision to believe you were guilty.

So cut the crap. I'm a scientist by nature, i only believe in what can be proved. Currently the proof points to you. You have provided a possible explanation with the "hacked" story and i have offered you a way to prove it. It is up to you to take it or accept your fate.

For the record - If it was Ian yeah i would be in on it, along with Vesper, Dune, SA47, Ioz, Haggis, Dursum and actually the rest of TIE, so your point is invalid.

Universe, give us all a break now please will you?

It has to be a huge ass conspiracy if Hai-shalud, Lord Ishurue, Dune, Vesper & Myself are all in on it. Why would they all be in on it?

- Lord Ishurue provided the IP address. How would he get your IP address unless eithier a.) You are responsible for the email or b.) We told him your IP address... which in turn means he'd *know* we are framing you making him a willing part of the conspiracy.

- Hai-shalud = because he;s been one of the chief investigators and has been online for pretty much all the facts of the case as and when they ve come out

- Dune = It was HIM who disproved that it was eithier myself or Vesper behind ~ B due to the edit, append, delete & modify topic title/ admin bits not matching the forum (They were put in to frame eithier me or Vesper)

- Myself = well, it was me who realised that lovely post you quoted was *before* Seaborgium registered, and that he couldn't possibly have ever quoted that post.

So... eithier you ve got BS foaming out of your mouth and ears (remembering that you are Major Sue i.e. the person who willfully lied to at least 2 games, misled them for months on end and in so doing quiet literally lied to 1000's of people) or that there is some huge-ass conspiracy on Aderan Wars between the major powers.

Eithier way... your attempts to frame me/ accuse me are a complete joke. Eithier FIRE's in on the conspiracy themselves (in which case why do all of this?!?) or its you. The evidence is there - you are behind all of this. The evidence is conclusive... mainly since the most damning evidence comes from FIRE itself, with the only means of it being untrue is if THEY know about it.

You haven't disproved a thing we ve said concerning your conviction. All you ve done is point at me and attempt to cast doubt on your conviction while speading your lies and manipulation - no doubt hoping to do some more harm to The Imperium in the process. All you ve done is proved just how low your prepared to go (Saying you ve been hacked and now have a criminal investigation under way, but refusing to make available the information (which is publically accessible and designed to be that way so the media/ interested people can follow individual criminal investigations) to confirm this), and proved in no uncertain terms you happen to have quotes from our forum - and have actually only provided the exact same quotes as which ~B did to FIRE - further confirming its you.

If your not ~B, and if as you say you ve been copying everything on our forum - put EVERYTHING you ve copied down on this thread. I m willing to bet EVERYTHING you ve copied is what FIRE happens to have recieved... remembering that FIRE only recieved a selection of quotes, and never the whole balanced truth. I m willing to bet the "quotes" you ve put on this forum are merely what you ve got taken as ~B - and i m willing to bet as such you didn't quote the whole set of thread...

Ian and Hai, I don't think individual crime reports are publicly accessible, at least not in the Netherlands.
Also, we do not have a common law system but a civil law system and you are never in front of a jury. You actually get judged by a trained professional. Also, the criminal process isn't adversarial in nature: the DA actually has to be looking for truth, rather than conviction and all available evidence has to be shared with the defence. Failure to do so on the DA's side will get the case thrown out. And there is no plea system either.
As to evidence, you have so much more information that I cannot possibly make an informed judgement. I just know that I was not in on any conspiracy and I find it hard to believe Ishurue would be either.
As to why Universe was targeted: I assume that since she is know to have a large strike, it would make sense to target her. I doubt there was a personal motivation, just a tactical one.

LOL - this is not a real court case. The TIE High Council along with the FIRE High Council have got together and examined ALL the evidence which is available to us. The conclusion we have reached is that Universe is guilty.

This thread is making our findings and our verdict public. Universe is still trying convince us otherwise altough her methods are somewhat unorthodox. There is very little to discuss actually. It is obvious now that we are being asked to believe Universes word over hard evidence. EVERYBODY is welcome to make up their OWN mind up over the situation. HOWEVER the Supreme High Council's have decided on behalf of their individual alliances on out official stance. UNLESS there is radical new evidence Universe's fate is sealed.

Its universe. There's no doubt in my mind. Lets reexamine the evidence:

- Universe so far has provided only quotes of SHC discussions which ~B has provided to FIRE i.e. there has been no quotes provided which weren't provided by ~B to FIRE. Since to me a SHC taking copies of the topic is a little unorthodox/ unlikely (though definately nothing wrong with doing it i might add) i do find it highly suspicious that if as Universe says she was, - taking copies of the topic's for her own safety/ reference...- then surely she would have copies of the WHOLE topic... and not just of quote's of the same bits which ~B had..... unless of course she is ~B and she is now having to rely upon what quotes she made while acting as ~B i.e. she hasn't got any other quotes other than what ~B provided.

Solution: She can disprove this point by providing quotes of the topics (which she earlier said she was taking records of) in their entirety/ include something which ~B hasn't provided. This would at least confirm she *might* have been taking copies without having a further purpose for them.

- In the email sent to Lord Ishurue a specific reference was made to an attempt by The Imperium to take over the cabal. This attempt happened - via my creating a fake email address and contacting Jonathon (who at the time was the spokesperson/ go between for ~B) and attempting to convince him I was ~D - another member of the cabal. This attempt failed, but the fact ~B knew it was The Imperium behind it points to ~B being an Imperium member who knew of the attempt. The initial idea was thought up by Universe... and only me and her knew the full details of the attempt.

- Due to specific details relating to something in the email sent to Lord Ishurue, there were only 5 possible candidates who could be ~B (since noone else knew about what was referenced). We ve eliminated 3 of those candidates... which has left just SA47 or Universe to be ~B. SA47 we aren't even sure knows of what was referenced in the email.

- We know that the 2nd post quoted by ~B in the email to Lord Ishurue had to be copied between 6.39 PM GMT and 4.46 A.M GMT.

- We know due to a mistake by ~B that ~B was adjusting their time-zone settings on the forum before taking copies. We know this because the actual 1st and 2nd posts had a 23hour gap between them, yet in the email there was a 25hour gap.

- This points to at least 2 login's to get the various quotes... since there are 2 distinct time-zones.

- The first post was copied in the same-time zone as SA47

- The 2nd post was copied 2hours ahead of SA47's time zone.

- The question arises: Why would SA47 copy the first quote in his own time-zone, then copy the 2nd in a different time-zone? I.e. the 2 different time-zones immediately alerted us to the fact ~B was adjusting their time-zone - why would you do that? Answer: You wouldn't. You d instead pick a time-zone and stick with it.

- This has led us to think perhaps ~B was adjusting their time zone in an attempt to impersonate/ frame SA47. We think ~B miscalculated the timedifference between them and SA47, and consequently got the time-zone wrong for the 2nd quote.

- Universe was given access to the SHC forum at 4.45pm GMT i.e. 1 hour 54minutes before the 2nd post which was quoted by ~B was first wrote on the forum. We know she was online at the time of registration. We think she copied the 1st quote then. She was offline by the time the 2nd post was posted on the SHC forum.

- We think Universe later returned that day to check the SHC forum, and noticed an update to the topic with the 2nd post posted. We think she then adjusted her time-zone to try and match the previous-time zone when she quoted the 1st post, and then copied the 2nd post - but she made a mistake on the time zone.

- 2 different time zones = 2 likely different login time's - Universe fits the above.

- We discover you can find the IP of the sender's email (i.e. the IP of whoever is behind spymaster@gmx.com - which is the one ~B contacted FIRE through) via checking the full-headings of the email. Lord Ishurue does this - and find's the IP address starting with 82 etc.. etc..

- The SHC checks our own forum records, and discovers the IP address found by Lord Ishurue was used by Universe. Universe has since confirmed this is the case.

- We discovered Universe's background story is an EXACT match to the background history of Major Sue i.e. the comma story. Not just the comma - but the whole getting the boyfriend to register on the forum's, give updates to the gaming community etc...

Ask yourselves this: How many Boyfriends do you know of who would take the time and effort to keep a bunch of online people he's never known about updated on the condition of his critically ill girlfriend? Surely he'd be with his RL friends, his family or his Girlfriends family? I may be missing something... but i d say not very many.

Its not a natural thought/ thing to do - and the fact such an unnatural thing to do was included in BOTH Major Sue's and Universe's lies to the server... does kinda point to them being the same - especially when the details are identical.

- On the 25th of January Major Sue for the first time in 2 years contacted me on Dune Wars asking if she could join The Commonwealth. This was 8 days before all this began. The timing is *very* cooincidental... which along with the above EXACT stories between Major Sue/ Universe points to them being one and the same.

- Upon confronting Universe over her being ~B, she immediately accuses The Imperium of hacking her bank account and stealing her details. This is the EXACT same day we confronted her apparently? Its BS in an attempt to discredit us - especially when its almost certain the bank-account itself is massively protected, plus anti-virus, firewall, built in firewalls belong to the computer's running type (I.e. XP/ Vista whatever etc...) etc... etc...

- Universe has royally screwed up in one regard of what she's publically wrote on this forum. She claims we hacked her PC and that is why her IP is behind the emails being sent by ~B.

However... she's overlooked one thing. The email address being used by ~B was spymaster@gmx.com. That's not Universe's email address. Her being "hacked" (as she claims in her defence) is utterly irrelevant since if she was innocent she wouldn't even know about the spymaster@gmx.com. So why would hacking her in some-way lead to the spymaster@gmx.com email address?

Answer: It wouldn't. That means the fact the IP address of emails originating from spymaster@gmx.com belongs to Universe confirms she is ~B. You can't fake the IP address included in the header of emails - to do that you d need to hack the email-provider probably.

There's also the small matter that EVEN if someone broke into her email account and then sent the email... the IP attached to that email would belong to the person's own IP - not Universe's. I.e. I could move around the UK and access my hotmail-account anywhere on the internet. I could send email's anywhere on the internet - but each individual email would have attached the IP of the location of the person at the time of sending.

Someone remotely breaking into Universe's email account and then sending the email's would result in the IP's leading back to them and the location of where they are when sending - not her.

- Conclusion: The fact Universe's is spilling out BS about her computer being hacked and trying to say thats why the IP points to her - when if it was hacked she wouldn't have any connection to ~B anyway (email address Universe suppossedly doesn't know about, plus the IP would lead back to the sender - not her) - pretty much show's just how low she is prepared to go. It merely add's to her guilt.

My personal suspicions that Major Sue is Universe are also pretty much confirmed now. There are few people i know of who will go to such dedication and motivation to spill such a overlapping pile of lies, guesses and cover-stories. Major Sue is one of them.

Jiro wrote:Ian and Hai, I don't think individual crime reports are publicly accessible, at least not in the Netherlands.
Also, we do not have a common law system but a civil law system and you are never in front of a jury. You actually get judged by a trained professional. Also, the criminal process isn't adversarial in nature: the DA actually has to be looking for truth, rather than conviction and all available evidence has to be shared with the defence. Failure to do so on the DA's side will get the case thrown out. And there is no plea system either.
As to evidence, you have so much more information that I cannot possibly make an informed judgement. I just know that I was not in on any conspiracy and I find it hard to believe Ishurue would be either.
As to why Universe was targeted: I assume that since she is know to have a large strike, it would make sense to target her. I doubt there was a personal motivation, just a tactical one.

lol, i m aware of the continents inquisitorial system Thank god for the British Empire spreading common law and the Adversarial legal system

Edit: While we are discussing crime and all that. I d just like to remind Universe accussing someone publically of an serious offence such as hacking and stealing personal details - is potentially defamation (tort) itself. There is some legal precedent for stuff publicised on the internet to amont to defamation unless it can be protected, justified or excused by the law. If you happen to be accusing someone of a serious criminal offence, and it turned out you were BS for the purpose of damaging/ harming their reputation in someway, that could end up badly for you Just a little word of advice...

Universe wrote:Yeah, I remember that thread. I remember that other thread as well. The one about how extremely expensive massing FIRE would be before the updates come in? And how they didn't realise that? Laughing Will you deny that Vesper and Hai exercised complete massing exercises, all the way to 0, on the Test Server? Will you deny that we knew with 100% certainty how expensive massing would be before the updates, and with 99% certainty -admin sometimes changes his mind- how cheap it would be after the updates in comparison? Will you deny that was the reason we collectively decided -in the SHC- to stall and keep FIRE under diplomatic lock and key? Laughing
*reads* Naah.. you wouldn't. You couldn't.

Everyone knew that hai and I tested everything on teh test server, IE varies ways to mass a defense. I was even working with a FIRE member to work out the formulas for the test server so FIRE was also informed of how much cheaper a war will be after the updates.

Universe wrote:'seems'? Bloody **Filtered**, I told you straightfaced that is what I am saying. Laughing
Although where you say 'The Imperium', I would rather see you say 'Ian'. There are too many people in The Imperium who cannot possibly know any of this. That's the thing with Inner Circles, and Circles within Circles. They exclude people from the full truth. Smile

There was not circles within circles or what ever you were trying to say until somebody started to leak information from our HC section. You created distrust among everyone in the HC and nearly ruined friendships and trust that have been building for over 2 years. I am sure you and everyone else that was given access to our forum to view my war topic saw it posted for ALL members to see. I hide very few things from TIE as a whole. If any member in TIE comes to me and asks what is happening or what the plans are I will most likely explain them. TIE had nothing to hide excluding dune so your circles within circles bit is a load of rubbish.

Universe wrote:So now 'The Imperium' is supposed to be the Cabal? Laughing What makes you say that? Yes, I am calling you out as ~B, because I have no bloody clue who else would have their fingers in every pot. I have not said The Imperium is the Cabal, and I will not say that. The Imperium is way too large to be the Cabal..
Unless by "The Imperium" you refer to "The Imperium Supreme High Command"? That is a cabal, look it up in the dictionary. Laughing

I am sure that you have noticed that ian trusts me and wouldnt do anything insane to jeopardize our friendship. So for you to say Ian was the cabal and tried to frame me is one hell of an accusation. It was ian along with several other HC members that worked to prove my innocence. What would ian have to gain by being and leaking information about his own alliance?
Define: Cabal
# a clique (often secret) that seeks power usually through intrigue
# conspire: engage in plotting or enter into a conspiracy, swear together; "They conspired to overthrow the government"
# conspiracy: a plot to carry out some harmful or illegal act (especially a political plot)

So basically you say that TIE HC is trying to be secretive and we are seeking power? I wouldnt really say that TIE HC is seeking power at all. I think every other alliance HC can be viewed as secretive and that they are seeking power though. So you want to call them the cabal as well while your busy trying to accuse as many people as possible?

Now for the big explanation as to why you wont admit it on this but you admitted to the comma incident. You dont want SA to believe you lied to him. If you admit to being ~B you admit you lied to him. You dont want to lose him as a friend so you are going through all this trouble to say someone else is cabal despite everything else again you.

Earlier you were accusing me of being ~B and hacking your bank account. Now you are suddenly accusing ian. Lets see how many people you can point out before you stop. This is all rather annoying for me really. I dont have a problem with what you did uni. Really damage was done already nothing can be done to fix it. I accept that. But you coming here and doing all of this is just creating more damage for yourself. I dont see the point if why you plan on quitting the game why you continue to argue unless you are here for attention.

She wants to get SA47 to leave TIE. That's what she's trying to do with this and it is incredibly obvious.

I'm bored by the rants here now, not as funny anymore. Hope it doesn't go on for too long.

As Universe friend, who knows her for over three years and knows her style, tastes etc probably more than any of you, I have to step in to stop this utter bs. So you accuse her to be major sue? I have never heard about this name before, neither by the truth tellers/seekers who tried to discredit Universe a while ago, they didn't mention it. TAW issues were mentionned already, like this Flores dude hacks. So people who played TAW also played sgw. Nobody ever mentionned this major sue thing in sgw, despite the deep search work some people who disliked Universe did to drop her down.
So I felt, it's probably bs, and decided to use same method as the one I used to discover a scammer's new identity in sgw out of his avatar. I managed to build out of this simple image a tracking of clues that shown he was the guilty one, Jakk, if you ever heard of him. (chain of clues started by one clue leading to another and so on) Also found another person who was permabanned and insulted me on beta sgw just with what he said I found out who he was. I got confirmed afterwards.
So now, back on major sue issue. As we all know, we all have a style of posting, and if we fake it, the more we post, the least the cover can remain. So I went to dune forums, guests can search posts so it's good. As I expected, after viewing about 35-40 posts or so of major sue, I concluded it was not Universe style, at all. So I felt, lets go for more proves. So I used photobucket as it helped me in past to find people. Major sue photobucket is *full* of anime. Universe isn't a fan of anime. The kind of music major sue seemes to be fond of is not the same as Universe's favourite kind of music. This got to be the LEAST similar candidate I EVER seen to be associated with her. Nothing is the same. It's NOT my first investigation, and I've to say, it's the first who doesn't lead at all to believe one is the other. Didn't your smartass crew who can write such long made up posts, think that such things can be copied by others who happened to play sgw (very popular game with 1000s of players remember??) and witness this issue and feel it would work well in another game? Nahh of course not, we jump to conclusions and if it doesn't seem plausible, we try to fake things to make it more realistic. To think it's just a game and people go that far in their revenges or huntings, it's very sad. I wish to never meet the likes of you in real life, more dangerous than the annoying thugs I can see on the streets. Because if you do it in game, God knows what you would do in real life!
This kind of investigation along with my knowledge of her prove in the end that there's no link between Universe and Major sue, and anything that might state otherwise has been fakely made to discredit her.

Given this, I am almost sure that considering this is completly false, the other accusations are also made up.
This took me less than two hours to conclude it wasn't her. Shorter than my sgw beta insulter or Jakk's investigation. Which were proven succesful and Jakk's file I brought was considered worthy by admins to ban him. This time, from what I consulted, I came to the conclusion Universe is NOT Major sue.

Would you believe more someone who knows Universe for over three years and is considered by some as one of "Universe expert" (lmao it's funny but sorta true), or someone whom she didn't know prior to joining this game who likely doesn't even know what she likes and don't like?

Listen to someone who knows her and was one of the few who recognized similarities in characters during the long over issue of sgw. Because even after few monthes of knowing her, I talked suficiently to her to have a good idea of her style. That was three years ago. So three years later, don't you think that if I found out, in past at same moment as sgw issue, this Sue existed, by today's investigating, by analysing now with added knowledge of three years about her thru many conversations, I would find out without any problems whether major sue is Universe or not? And my conclusion is without doubt, it's NOT her. I've already investigated in past, was successful and revealed some interesting things.
Sue existed at same moment as sgw issue and thus couldn't be really different if it was Universe, and yet is completly different. Past is past, present is present. The "Universe expert" spoke. Point made, checkmate!

The only thing you post showed was she wasn't sue.... now the ip thing isn't 100% in most cases however its safe to say that in this small of a game that people here don't know how to change the headers of an email.

I can tell you that people can be different in each game.

I personaly disagree with the sue comparison but you posted nothing the change my belief that it was uni.

[quote=\"seaborgium\"]The only thing you post showed was she wasn\'t sue.... now the ip thing isn\'t 100% in most cases however its safe to say that in this small of a game that people here don\'t know how to change the headers of an email.

I can tell you that people can be different in each game.

I personaly disagree with the sue comparison but you posted nothing the change my belief that it was uni.[/quote]
You didn\'t read my post completly then.
I told that when the coma thing happened in sgw, I among very few others, were suspicious it was same person who was different characters. I was 17 years old at the time, and thought it was due to me hoping she was not in a coma that I came to this conclusion. In the end, it wasn\'t, I was true. As I also said, those issues happened not at the same time, but close enough not to have a \"ameliorated\" her argumentation IF she was to do it again. Not to mention after three+ years of knowing her in MANY different games, I have never encoutered her using such basic and below average kind of english. Neither before, nor after. Furthermore, during this year, she was absolutely against lazy typing and no use of capital and similar things, which major sue did. Also, major sue from my investigation is from UK. Universe, is from NL, and I know it completly.
So, again, to be rational, rather believe someone who witnessed the thing in sgw, ddidn\'t fall for it, remained friend with her afterwards to get to know her more, and thus I have more ability to recognize her as your lot, isn\'t it? If I cannot, then you even less can.

And when someone tries so hardcorely to prove Universe is Major Sue, and that other accusations come from him, that I found out Universe isn\'t Major Sue, that Universe says it\'s not true (she admitted in sgw her mistake, and as she said, wouldn\'t do it again), then I\'m likely to believe that he lies on a great part if not all of this.

Legendary wrote:
Given this, I am almost sure that considering this is completly false, the other accusations are also made up.

Oh jesus christ how utterly stupid that was. Listen mate, I am sure you're an awesome dude. Martin certainly likes you. That, however, doesn't mean squat.

LET ME PROVE IT. I say two things. Water freezes at 10 degrees. Water boils at 100 degrees. (CELSIUS)

I regulate a bowl of water's temperature to 10 degrees. It does not freeze. Therefore water does NOT freeze at 10 degrees.

Given this, I am almost sure that considering this is completely false, the other statement is also false.

BUT IT ISN'T! See why I said you look stupid?

PS: You or your finds have no value here. You are an unknown friend of Uni. Pardon me if I don't take you seriously.

Sandwalker wrote:

Legendary wrote:
Given this, I am almost sure that considering this is completly false, the other accusations are also made up.

Oh jesus christ how utterly stupid that was. Listen mate, I am sure you're an awesome dude. Martin certainly likes you. That, however, doesn't mean squat.

LET ME PROVE IT. I say two things. Water freezes at 10 degrees. Water boils at 100 degrees. (CELSIUS)

I regulate a bowl of water's temperature to 10 degrees. It does not freeze. Therefore water does NOT freeze at 10 degrees.

Given this, I am almost sure that considering this is completely false, the other statement is also false.

BUT IT ISN'T! See why I said you look stupid?

Nice try at twisting what I said.
When you try to discredit one person and so hardcorely pretending you cannot be wrong about it, and throw proves about your rightness, and then AGAIN about SAME person throw more stuff that the person denies...sorry but when there's utter bs backed like if it was Truth with a capital T with another thing that seems completly irrational and not in her favour in same post by same poster, I can draw my conclusions more easily than your attempt at twisting tries to refute.

When someone lies about another person, usually one tends to be careful about what said person says afterwards about the other.
I got to learn that propaganda and lies are a VERY BIG deal in game politics, ESPECIALLY when it comes from someone assuming/lieing knowlingly by associating two different persons based on a common thing that was publically known in a game played by 1000s of players.

Universe had nothing to win on this one. However, her enemy(ies) had everything to win. Her past was controversial, so she would be easy to brand as guilty and everyone would follow without asking more.

Come on Dune keep your calm.

@Legendary - Thank you for coming forward to share this with us. Now could you explain to us all how you found out about this topic, how you know Universe and your exact connection with her and also why you believe you can make such a bold claim ( some would say as bold as our claims ) that people dont change in 3 years?

You see we can exactly take everything you say as 100% fact due to the simple reason the person who was manipulating us used multiple accounts and a thick web of lies to fool us. So please excuse anyone of us who arent exactly friendly with you, trust and a welcoming smile is something in short supply currently.

The Imperium had absolutely nothing to gain from convicting Universe. We lost a member of our High Council, a good account and a friend. We are not exactly throwing a party coz shes gone, quite the opposite, moral is at an all time low. So please spare the psycho-analysis crap about "enemies most to gain". We are seeking the truth, which is currently wagging its accusing finger at Universe. If with your help her name can be cleared than i will be amongst the first the beg for her forgiveness. Otherwise itll just be another traitor to be remembered and never forgiven.

Hai-Shulud wrote:Come on Dune keep your calm.

@Legendary - Thank you for coming forward to share this with us. Now could you explain to us all how you found out about this topic, how you know Universe and your exact connection with her and also why you believe you can make such a bold claim ( some would say as bold as our claims ) that people dont change in 3 years?


You see we can exactly take everything you say as 100% fact due to the simple reason the person who was manipulating us used multiple accounts and a thick web of lies to fool us. So please excuse anyone of us who arent exactly friendly with you, trust and a welcoming smile is something in short supply currently.

The Imperium had absolutely nothing to gain from convicting Universe. We lost a member of our High Council, a good account and a friend. We are not exactly throwing a party coz shes gone, quite the opposite, moral is at an all time low. So please spare the psycho-analysis crap about "enemies most to gain". We are seeking the truth, which is currently wagging its accusing finger at Universe. If with your help her name can be cleared than i will be amongst the first the beg for her forgiveness. Otherwise itll just be another traitor to be remembered and never forgiven.

§1: Urogard came to me on msn asking me whether I knew what kind of person Universe was. I felt something might have happened, I seen this thread, and read it. I've known Universe since october-november 2006 in sgw, she brought me to other games, we played since then and talked alot on msn, thru emails, and few textings.
Well, to be honest, I didn't say a third party couldn't be involved. But considering your lot said your HC issues are quite secret, that's what made me think that. Sure, a third party could have gone thru your protections, I've already seen in sgw people having access to super secret sections and in the end proving they indeed had access.

If your alliance as a whole didn't want it, which would be quite strange you want to do that, then try to think about inside/outside individuals, not a collective conspiracy, but someone who's inside and know other people who have good skills. It's happened in sgw, that's why I'm talking about that.

People who hacked accounts. Forums and ingame. People who used guest trick to visit a forum (I don't know much about it, my alliance was victim from it). People who were told (classic spy thing). People who can have access to forum admin panel/accounts a way or another and got the infos needed to make their plans working.

Sound like a conspiracy? It happened MANY times in sgw! SGW forums hacked, sgw accounts hacked, AE forums accessed, TLE forums access obtained etc etc...you cannot guess how some people are ready to get far to get someone down in a mmorpg.
If it happened in sgw, it can have happened here. Victims were people hated by a % of the game, they weren't all the times scammers/cheaters, but important people such as empire leaders, important forum people who some people didn't mind to do any way to hurt them. I'm playing sgw since feb 2005, similar issues happened already, not exactly similar, but of same kind.

ian wrote:
@ Everyone else. If Universe plays SGW and is in an alliance, would someone be kind enough to tip that alliance leader off about this thread link - since clearly Universe/ Sue hasn't change even in the slightest since she pulled her Comma Stunt on T.A.W and then on Gatewars. She is still the lieing scheming person many of us have known all along - and they deserve to be warned.

I am her commander in sgw (after having been her officer for two years, and having been greatly helped by her in growth), and after reading all of this...I can say that I am proud of her to stay head up and face all this flaming against her. I'm proud of you Universe, you don't let others play with you like if you were a weak being and let you be accused of things that seem to be against you.

Hmmmm thank you Legendary, your view of Universe is obviously more balanced than many of ours currently. In light of what your saying im prepared to admit that Major Sue and Universe MAY not be the same person. I dont think its clear cut as some of us have made it out to be.

However please do understand given the sheer amount of evidence and the HUGE amount of similarities between Universe and Sue we can still not rule out the possibility that they are one and the same people. Also given the fact that Sue is more proficient in her ability to manipulate and fool entire servers please consider the possibility you are one of the many possible victims.

Now there is no short way of proving that Universe is not Sue HOWEVER the main point of concern for us is the actual treason committed by Universes' account (im trying to be fair here - we are certain the betrayal came from that IP and from that account however obviously we can not 100% say it was her in person. However that is what we believe as we have no real reason or evidence to show that it wasnt her). So EVEN if we manage to prove Universe is not Sue there is still the main charges we are finding her guilty of.

IF you she really want to clear her name she has to prove it was not her who betrayed us. Now i appreciate how difficult that is given the mountain of hard evidence against her but i believe the truth always has a way of surfacing with time and effort. Proving her innocence should also clear her of the ties we are attaching between her and Major Sue.

So in short - Thank you however you have merely shed light on the subject, perhaps helping us in our search for truth but you have not provided any direct answers yourself.

Hai-Shulud wrote:Hmmmm thank you Legendary, your view of Universe is obviously more balanced than many of ours currently. In light of what your saying im prepared to admit that Major Sue and Universe MAY not be the same person. I dont think its clear cut as some of us have made it out to be.

However please do understand given the sheer amount of evidence and the HUGE amount of similarities between Universe and Sue we can still not rule out the possibility that they are one and the same people. Also given the fact that Sue is more proficient in her ability to manipulate and fool entire servers please consider the possibility you are one of the many possible victims.

Now there is no short way of proving that Universe is not Sue HOWEVER the main point of concern for us is the actual treason committed by Universes' account (im trying to be fair here - we are certain the betrayal came from that IP and from that account however obviously we can not 100% say it was her in person. However that is what we believe as we have no real reason or evidence to show that it wasnt her). So EVEN if we manage to prove Universe is not Sue there is still the main charges we are finding her guilty of.

IF you she really want to clear her name she has to prove it was not her who betrayed us. Now i appreciate how difficult that is given the mountain of hard evidence against her but i believe the truth always has a way of surfacing with time and effort. Proving her innocence should also clear her of the ties we are attaching between her and Major Sue.

So in short - Thank you however you have merely shed light on the subject, perhaps helping us in our search for truth but you have not provided any direct answers yourself.

§2: don't forget what I said about accounts similarities styles of posting. I recognized her in her sgw thing, and recognized similarities. I knew her for few monthes and had suspicions despite my full trust I had. The Major Sue stuff happened same year. Style is totally different. I'm 3 years older, and am used to her style and remember what it used to be. Neither her current nor past style included some variations possible, tend to prove she's Major Sue. There has been some evil masterminds being males. Why wouldn't there be females who might have done the same? She tricked Dune and TAW. It doesn't necessarly mean it's Universe. There's not only one smart woman playing mmorpgs in this world. SGW forums were visited alot, this issue got known community wide. Hundred of people were aware. Like I said, some woman see this, felt oh it might work in another game, hoping no sgw player was there. Why couldn't it be this way?

§3 I didn't mention sgw hackings of both game and main/alliances forums for nothing. It's happened, any long-time aware of sgw history player will agree. I don't know if Nigatsu was still around lately in sgw, but if he was, he probably heared about ETL's forum and ingame hackings, God Shornaal forum/ingame accounts being hacked and many others etc...to tell you accounts have already been hacked and infos discovered from people. PCs malware'd by HellboY and the likes. Heck, Universe was hacked in sgaw and sgw and origins by hellboy and his crew last year. So she has already been a victim of hackers.

§4 I'm doing my best

Legendary wrote:§3 I didn't mention sgw hackings of both game and main/alliances forums for nothing. It's happened, any long-time aware of sgw history player will agree. I don't know if Nigatsu was still around lately in sgw, but if he was, he probably heared about ETL's forum and ingame hackings, God Shornaal forum/ingame accounts being hacked and many others etc...to tell you accounts have already been hacked and infos discovered from people. PCs malware'd by HellboY and the likes. Heck, Universe was hacked in sgaw and sgw and origins by hellboy and his crew last year. So she has already been a victim of hackers.

I started playing SGW later than the old timers like ETL, you, REK, JUAN, etc... but i've heard of their doings. It's not a surprise to me if it happened here too. And urogard probably knows too about these because he played longer than me.
I caught some big cheaters/accounts that used to hack the game in SGW - dunno if you remember those accounts who created trillions of naq - and have proven the innocence of some other who were accused unfairly for doing it - so yes, i am very conscient about these facts, that people hack games even for little reasons, like finding out some message exchanges.


I was already driven away from this thread, so this will be my only reply to this matter.

Legendary. Your probably also up to your neck in this as well so save me the crap please.

06/02/2010 23:27:34 Universe ian Indeed, right. So avoid dune and such subjects, and just 'give information'? Nothing sensitive I can touch? Hmm, this B uses that mailcatch.com thing. That's disposable email. Theoretically we could send our own messages to Jonathan in the name of "B"..
06/02/2010 23:27:35 ian Universe OMG
06/02/2010 23:27:36 ian Universe lol
06/02/2010 23:27:37 ian Universe LOL
06/02/2010 23:27:44 ian Universe jesus christ thats brilliant
06/02/2010 23:28:00 Universe ian If he's an errand boy, he won't know the difference between you or B.
06/02/2010 23:28:02 ian Universe fair do's
06/02/2010 23:28:04 Universe ian xD
06/02/2010 23:28:07 ian Universe i think that is a truly epic plan lol
06/02/2010 23:29:03 ian Universe hmm... just how do we get into contact with jonathon?
06/02/2010 23:29:37 Universe ian We had Jonathan's email, right? Vesper posted it, I believe? I'll doctor a few messages he sent US, and you (or Hai?) could look into becoming "B". Just steal the whole bloody cabal..
06/02/2010 23:30:11 ian Universe LOL
06/02/2010 23:30:13 ian Universe ishmael says (23:29): you can't send from those only receive
06/02/2010 23:30:14 ian Universe
06/02/2010 23:30:21 ian Universe still... its an idea worth thinking over
06/02/2010 23:30:53 Universe ian I mean, we can change the future, so we'll have to engineer a past. You set the guidelines, I provide some messages.
06/02/2010 23:31:09 Universe ian The mailcatch? :/ That's odd.
06/02/2010 23:32:19 ian Universe yeah lol
06/02/2010 23:32:25 ian Universe jonimarcus@gmail.com
06/02/2010 23:32:27 ian Universe is his email
06/02/2010 23:32:27 ian Universe lol
06/02/2010 23:33:33 Universe ian Hmm.. if I were to use disposable emails, I'd contact someone through an "Anonymous Mail" account, tell them to message me at this and that address, and reply anonymously again. :/ That would also explain why 'B' mentioned his email to Jonathan.. (which Jonathan would have to know already, if he'd contact directly)
06/02/2010 23:34:00 ian Universe lol
06/02/2010 23:34:15 ian Universe Hmm
06/02/2010 23:34:18 Universe ian Or not anonymous, but with various accounts. Make a circle around the kid's head and confuse him until the point where he tells you everything.
06/02/2010 23:34:28 ian Universe so... we send poor old jonathon a message
06/02/2010 23:34:41 ian Universe from a account i.e. balanceofjustice@mailcatch.com
06/02/2010 23:34:41 Universe ian Oh well. I probably drift off into cyberespionage dreams. lol
06/02/2010 23:37:06 Universe ian That cabal will need some time to figure this out. My guess is they won't pay him.. kid ends up with nothing but a bunch of angry people. lol
06/02/2010 23:37:32 Universe ian (provided it works) Of course, if he's B, we'll know instantly.
06/02/2010 23:37:52 ian Universe LOL
06/02/2010 23:37:52 ian Universe yeah
06/02/2010 23:37:59 ian Universe I m thinking its a good idea
06/02/2010 23:39:14 Universe ian Need me to play a part in that, or shall I just make a few messages, and stick to the background otherwise?
06/02/2010 23:39:15 ian Universe make a few messages - do you happen to know of anyone who can be trusted to join AW
06/02/2010 23:39:21 ian Universe who will be active and play AW
06/02/2010 23:39:27 ian Universe and who it will be easy to arrange to get SS?
06/02/2010 23:39:33 ian Universe we get them established
06/02/2010 23:39:42 ian Universe and use them as the mail errand to reward jonathon for his good work
06/02/2010 23:39:56 ian Universe i.e. sending resources to them - they then send to jonathon
06/02/2010 23:40:21 ian Universe of course, he ll tell the B cabal person that the D person has contacted him
06/02/2010 23:40:31 ian Universe which will confuse the crap out of B
06/02/2010 23:40:50 ian Universe hmmm... awesome
06/02/2010 23:40:52 Universe ian Hmm.. I could ask Legendary, he's a friend of mine from SGW, and completely loyal to me.
06/02/2010 23:41:00 ian Universe what alliance is he in so far? lol
06/02/2010 23:41:29 ian Universe yeah
06/02/2010 23:41:35 Universe ian In AW?
06/02/2010 23:42:08 Universe ian None. He's supposed to take over my old account, made a few posts on AW forums so far..
06/02/2010 23:42:29 ian Universe hmm.. have him get active if you can... tell him he ll be the first member of a cabal
06/02/2010 23:42:41 ian Universe lets see if we can't hijack another cabal
06/02/2010 23:42:42 Universe ian If I remember correctly, that acc has SS already.
06/02/2010 23:43:17 Universe ian Haha, he'll be thrilled. And he will say he can't because he sucks at lieing.
06/02/2010 23:43:34 Universe ian So I figure we don't tell him anything.
06/02/2010 23:43:39 ian Universe lol, sound's fair enough
06/02/2010 23:43:53 Universe ian Just 'here, have this, send it to this and that guy'.
06/02/2010 23:44:37 Universe ian The point would be just to get messages across.. right?
06/02/2010 23:44:44 ian Universe *confused*
06/02/2010 23:47:15 ian Universe yeah sound's like a plan
06/02/2010 23:47:21 ian Universe i ve just created a cabal email address
06/02/2010 23:47:23 Universe ian I kind of lost the train of thought why we need our own cabal person (Legendary)? :$
06/02/2010 23:47:33 ian Universe returnofjustice@hotmail.co.uk
06/02/2010 23:48:32 Universe ian lmao
06/02/2010 23:48:45 Universe ian perfect xD
06/02/2010 23:48:49 ian Universe lmao
06/02/2010 23:49:01 Universe ian what's next.. the apex of justice?
06/02/2010 23:49:41 ian Universe so.. what should i say?
06/02/2010 23:50:53 Universe ian Something short and functional? Or just go all-out Ian on them..
06/02/2010 23:57:03 ian Universe just doing the message now
06/02/2010 23:58:26 Universe ian I figured. Doing my own (the 'older ones') right now. I will have to go to bed soon though.. early rise tomorrow. >_<
06/02/2010 23:58:38 ian Universe oh ok
06/02/2010 23:58:55 ian Universe message me via PM on the forum with the messages when you ve created them... don't post on the topic incase Mr B see's it lol
07/02/2010 00:00:45 Universe ian *grin* Will do. No email I should send them to? I mean.. that way we keep out of all known channels? I can send to your msn hotmail. Are there ways of reading forum PMs sent to others?
07/02/2010 00:00:48 ian Universe no
07/02/2010 00:00:48 ian Universe lol
07/02/2010 00:02:44 ian Universe lol
07/02/2010 00:02:50 Universe ian good I was worried.
07/02/2010 00:03:44 Universe ian Wait. Hacking someone's account, you can read their PMs. :/ But this hacking thing is beyond me, I can hardly find out what ip a site is registered at.. lol
07/02/2010 00:03:49 ian Universe Lol
07/02/2010 00:03:59 ian Universe hmm... send them in email to my email if you like/ lol
07/02/2010 00:04:53 ian Universe ok then lol
07/02/2010 00:05:04 Universe ian Nah, that was just a burst of paranoia, I'll PM you.
07/02/2010 00:05:40 ian Universe right

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your completely loyal to Universe - as admitted by her own mouth. Your also a likely candidate for any remnants of Cabal there may still be lieing around - as witnessed by you being her first suggestion to use for The Imperium to try and hijack the Cabal.

As for the language difference: People change in 3 years. People can alter it as it see's fit. Take Jonathon for example - his first posts on this forum were perfect english as was his message of the day ingame... yet ever since this Cabal crap has been going on his english has suddenly downgraded massively.

You claim you know Universe and therefore you *must* be right. Whats to stop me claiming i know Major Sue better than you and therefore i *must* be right based on that logic? There isn't anything.

I m not saying Universe *IS* Major Sue - i m saying there are many similarities/ cooincidences which point to it and everyone should be aware of the possibility.

Universe is the traitor because she's the traitor - not because she's major sue. The evidence we have points to Universe being behind ~B - and even if we hadn't recognised the exstreme similarities between her background and Major Sue's background - she would still be charged with treason and being ~B.

Simply put: By all means contest that Universe *isn't* Major Sue. Thats your right and hers. But that has absolutely zero implications on Universe being the one behind this.

Both you and her have failed completely in countering ANY of the evidence against Universe. You ve merely provided a bunch of hypothetical BS saying its me/ The Imperium behind this/ willingly lieing - without providing even the slightest bit of evidence to support such a jumped-up charge, and haven't even attempted to disprove the evidence against Universe herself - so you ll excuse me if i don't buy what you say or take what you say at face value... especially when your "completey loyal" to Universe... to quote her own words.