For Lasting Peace

NO shame u did not think of peace when u sent out all them PMs asking for spies in all alliances also bragging about 2 spies u have in our ranks to start with that is no act of peace u dug this hole now u are trying to get your self out of it as we are filling it in around u

Kenzu wrote:
Have you even read what I have written?
I am offering you peaceful talks without threats and war.

Didn't I explain it well, why you shouldn't threaten someone to apologise to you and why you shouldn't ask someone to betray his friends?

Please read the post again.

Forget what has been said, let us start a new page!

I have NO reason to want peace from you. I DO have reason to want WAR with you.

Read what I wrote.

I am NOT offering peaceful talks with you.

I have not YET nor EVER asked you to betray your friends. I have told you how to end this peacefully.

Atone for your sins, correct what wrongs you have done, until then do not speak to me again because I have no tolerance for fools, nor those to feeble to see through the one leading them.

We have YET to do ANYTHING to you, but YOU have done MANY things to us.

How many more times will you ask for peace and betray it in the same week? same day? same breath?


Be careful your word Kenzu, because even an alliance leader will be held responsible for his words. And you have given me a clear path, one legitamate in your eyes, to destroy you and your alliance. I have always been a strong believer in the fact it is easier to ask forgiveness then permission. I'm willing to bet The Company will allow me back in their ranks when our war is finished. The cost will be great for me, in resources, in the lives of men, and probably my seat on The Company's High Council, BUT I promise you one thing, your losses will far exceed mine. Not only in resources, Not only in the lives of your men, Not only in the accounts of your alliance, but it may very well cost you that which you hold most dear. It may cost you WR itself.


Edit after Reapers post and Kenzu's reply
Now you beg? while satisfying it turns my stomach. At least the offering up of your account in the fashion of a duel was honorable. You would be wiser to stick with that. This brings shame on all of WR. Like Reaper said, you should have thought about what you were doing when you did it.

Be a man, and reap what you have sown.

You Ask for my honest opinion. here I go .

1. this post was a Bad idea , you made an impulsive choice with the TIE has Spies In WR , with out thinking how will they react to that post.
now your clutching at straws finding a way out of your bad post .

2. whether TIE has spies in WR or not , something of this importance should have been between you, Kilo , and Reaper, Or you should of narrowed down members who you suspected of being a spy and trapped them and kicked them out .

3. Its clearly obvious that you and the Leaders of TIE can never come to a compromise and your guys' personalities clash , maybe try sending the Second in Command of WR to handle all matters between TIE and WR , and you make the final decision For WR .

4. telling your enemy your afraid of him is NEVER a good idea. Even if you are afraid of your enemy you never show it.


Ambition Of Chaos

Kenzu wrote:

reaper wrote:NO shame u did not think of peace when u sent out all them PMs asking for spies in all alliances also bragging about 2 spies u have in our ranks to start with that is no act of peace u dug this hole now u are trying to get your self out of it as we are filling it in around u

I am very sorry for that and I think I have apologised before already.

Please let us do this diplomatically, without threats.

You know that World Republic is powerless against The Company anyway.
We are no threat to you, so please don't fight us.

u ask for diplomatically and no threats all we asked was a name of spies u openly said u have and we are still waiting for so wot makes u think we will do wot u ask of us

i'm pretty new to this game yet and to this forum,
but i feel like posting so here's my 2 cents worth lol
don't tell people private stuff for one thing, like don't go around saying i have spies in your alliance etc. thats not to bright, second of all if somebodys member of their alliance attacks a member to another alliance you offer to pay for what was lost, if not accepted then hey, their loss,
3rd you offer peace, if it's not accepted then again, their loss, move on.
4th, never ever give in to threats, i don't care how small or how big they are, never give in to it, after all its a war game not a social club.
WOW i feel so much better hehe
G/L to everyone involved in what ever this all is.

Ok kenzu - i ll grant you one last request - i ll take our ultimatum back as you requested. Thus there are no demands World Republic have to meet or accept - but there are also now no garantee's that The Imperium won't go to war.

You see - those ultimatums were your last great diplomatic ace - gifted to you by myself and Reaper. Had you met the demands, and The Imperium gone to war.. you d have had a very strong argument, and could really have played The Imperium off as the unjustified aggressor. Had you met those demands - Myself and Reaper were well aware of this (remembering we were in favour of a last chance and peace still) - and would have highlighted it to the rest of the Imperium - giving us a pretty decent argument/ answer to give to those who ask why The Imperium hasn't yet declared war. That ultimatum/ demand was your last real chance of peace - and it was my and Reapers last real chance of presenting a half-effective argument to justify our decision to hold back on an attack on World Republic by The Imperium, to The Imperium's memberbase.

But - that ultimatum/ demand is hereby withdrawn, as per your request. Your not required to meet any of those demands/ points - but likewise, it now means you have absolutely no garantee what The Imperium will do.

Your request that we withdraw the ultimatum/ demands has been accepted - the ultimatum and demands are now void, along with the requirement/ chance of meeting them.

Thanks

This is all extremely tedious and tiresome from my perspective. Yes, I think it is clear to most if not all that Kenzu has made some communications/diplomatic blunders -- he certainly continues to clash with several key players.

With that said, he is an individual. Separate from that he is the leader of an Alliance. I can say that since I have been a member of WR, Kenzu has cooperated with other Alliances on the forums in ways that have improved the Alliance. I think that the "spirited discussions" on the forums have inspired him in other ways to do things that are good for the Alliance.

Clearly we as an Alliance have been going through "interesting times". Policies, organization, and leadership style have all been evolving. I think Kenzu has been evolving as an Alliance leader as well. The game dynamic has been dramatically shifting and Kenzu has been adjusting to the changes. He hasn't been doing a perfect job, but I wouldn't expect him to. During major changes like these, we need leaders that are willing to stick with it and change themselves. Whatever anyone may say about how well Kenzu has handled all of this, I think he has shown that he is willing to push through this evolution, however challenging it may be. I also think he has unambiguously demonstrated (at least some) good character and (at least some) humility with his responses to the never-ending series of ultimatums.

I do not expect anyone to not ever make mistakes, and I do not even expect a leader to be perceived as good all the time. I certainly don't expect other Alliances or other Alliance leaders to perceive this Alliance leader to be great. I don't necessarily perceive other Alliance leaders as being great either.

Clearly there is a lot of hostility that has built up against Kenzu from some players (however many). Justified or not, I don't think this hostility warrants a WR genocide.

Meanwhile, this is a game, and I have made some attempt to keep up with politics on the forums, but I have to be honest. These politics are very boring. To me, the big issues going on are posturing and obsess over semantics and minutae (there are exceptions). In sum, I can see why some WR individuals could arguably be targeted -- though I think 1:1 much more appropriate and interesting. I think the aftermath of 1:1 versus multi-Alliance massing of 1+ players would be much more engaging and interesting -- and better for the game.

I haven't read anything that makes me motivated to get into any kind of war at the scale of Alliances. I do think that Alliances openly and honorably declaring war on each other would be fun and I'm up for that in concept. But, I'd like to see that happen for reasons that are fun. I'd hate to have it for reasons that bore me.

I'm guessing that many/most/all of the folks itching to war with Kenzu are plenty motivated and would find it fun -- at least at the time. As a WR member, if I got sucked into an obviously unbalanced war for really tedious personal reasons that in my opinion clearly do not involve the WR at large, I am not motivated. I'd say let's come up with a good reason, then do it. Something we can get behind.

Dr. Seuss wrote an awesome book called The Butter Battle Book. Without going into details, the opposing factions are against each other because one keeps the butter side up; the other keeps the butter side down. Yes, bread. Anyhow, that would be a much better reason for a war in my opinion. It gives me a battle cry and everything. I can get behind defending my right to keep the butter side down. Getting behind "several folks have a major beef with my leader and so I need to try to take them out or just be destroyed" is just lame.

My real suggestion for stirring up a real war is music. Just try to take away my right to play disco. And just try to play country on my territory -- you'd be asking for it!

Anyhow, I'm just interested in the game being fun. I have had several interactions with players individually and have enjoyed these interactions with folks in my Alliance and not in my Alliance. For the most part I believe I found mutual respect with everyone I have interacted with (including shadow_Phoenix from our recent 1:1).

I think Kenzu has offered a solution to this current escalation that has the potential to shift things to an honorable plane -- instead of the tedium that has been ongoing. I suggest we go that direction and stick with it. Yes this is a game, but I also think it should be fun.

Caveat -- all the above is strictly my opinion. I do not speak for the WR. I do not expect anyone to agree with any of my "observations". I am taking things "seriously" only on the scale of "I play this game to have fun".

Apologies to anyone I may have offended -- I'm just looking after my fancy polyester pants.

And to finish my post: Sly & The Family Stone: Everybody Is a Star

Edit: just for the record I wrote this before seeing ian's response. I'll leave the substantive edits that I might have made had I been sufficiently motivated to make them as an exercise for the reader.

Special Agent 47 wrote:NO

When you atone for what you have done, maybe then.

You still to this day have NOT

1. revieled your spy
2. apologized for stabbing us in the back
3. apologized for slandering and lieing about us
4. the attacks on reyno PROVE beyond a shadow of a doubt that YOU still actively batter those smaller and weaker then yourselves and DO NOT follow your own "code of conduct"


We have not laid a finger on you, yet your here screaming like a little girl about how Wrong and Cruel and Abusive WE ARE??????

You want peace, then do what was asked of you from the beginning.

And Know what I said in the other thread still stands, With or without Reaper, With or without Ian, With or without any other player from TIE,,,,


You have a war coming.

I hate to tell you, but you HAVE attacked our members. The whole "we have not laid a finger on you, yet your here screaming like a little girl, etc..." (it's you're, not your btw).

Mitola, ranked #10, attacked a much lower ranked member in WR.
cmarius, has attacked at least 1 member of WR more than once.

So where is "The Company's" "Code of Conduct"???

Those are the ones I know about.... from only one member of WR.

Those are YOUR alliance members. Members of "The Company"

Are you in on this whole bully thing? No matter what happens, you're just threatening WR with WAR. That's all you want is war. WAR WAR WAR! Doesn't matter if we capitulate to your 3rd ultimatum or 4th or 5th. Every time we capitulate, we get threatened again for something else. It doesn't stop. You're always going to find something else to complain about. Did we breathe correctly today? THREATEN WAR OVER THAT! WR DIDN'T BREATHE RIGHT... THEY DIDN'T BREATHE THE WAY WE WANT THEM TO!

Special Agent 47 wrote:"And Know what I said in the other thread still stands, With or without Reaper, With or without Ian, With or without any other player from TIE,,,,


You have a war coming."

Know what happens to bullies in the end?



Edit after Vader's post:

I agree with this. Some people have their panties in a wad over things that have happened but have stopped. Then the Company has been attacking attacking members ranked 180+ and really wondering WHY The Company is complaining about any of this. It's politics that are beyond belief. Kenzu has tried and made the post to try some reconciliation between the alliances. Most WR members support this because they think war at this stage is stupid; over stupid things that most of them have nothing to do with. Most WR members don't read these forums because guess what... they are boring. My post is boring. Every post concerning these ultimatums and every attempt at diplomacy & posturing is boring. Only part of these forums that I bother with normally are the suggestions and bugs forums. NO politics there. Thankfully.

No.

You repeat the same things Kenzu, always the same things. You always come with demands, you always accuse and point fingers, even here, in your would-be "on your knees for peace" thread.

You're just stalling, it is clear you don't want this war, but war can only be avoided through a change of attitude and I'm not sure if you're willing or even capable of doing that. You need to understand something: You don't get to make demands.
You act in your diplomacy like the USSR might act when confronted by someone like, dunno, the other half of Germany. That's not the power scale you're dealing with here so it would be best if you tone it down with the "holier than thou" attitude and keep quiet.

@kismet: WR haven't fully satisfied any of the ultimatums. And let me tell you, saying "I apologize because you want me to." is not a god-damn apology.

As a WR member I'd like to see those spies get outed... I mean seriously, hasn't that issue been played all the way into the ground?

"You have sown the wind, you shall reap the whirlwind."
I love that.

*grin* It is so entertaining to read someone begins with "You don't trust me", and then writes an entire story that is worthless without basic trust. What purpose could you have, other as to sway the minds of outsiders? Surely you see that all hope of actually convincing TIE to have peace with you is lost. It's just a game of cat-and-mouse being played now..

Hi Kenzu,

I think it is good that for the first time you've stated what you want, rather than responding to demands and technicalities. At least it has triggered a response from Reaper, Special Agent, Ian and Sandwalker with what they want, rather than a finished ultimatum.
Most of the anger and reasons for war are actions from the past. Since you cannot change the past, nothing you do will take away those reasons. I agree with DiscoVader: the game has changed and you have changed. Korruption would not have an army if you hadn't.
If both parties want a way out of this conflict, we need to focus on what both parties need and find a way to address those. If one side predominantly wants retribution, then get on with the pointless killing.
I'll give an example: if one side really wants to stop large players from picking on small players, then make sure there is a group of people small players can complain to, preferably composed of people from different alliances. That has a much better chance of working than having "diplomats" join WR, also because it is curative in nature rather than punitative.
With that respect, I welcome Ian's taking away of the ultimatum. It does provide a chance to work on issues, rather than details, demands, allegations and proof.
Also, you seem to have many capable people in WR. Let them help you, advise wise.

When i first started to read this post i was upset and ready to go to war. After reading what others had to say i am feeling slightly more sympathetic.

In my opinion i feel Kenzu has done so many stupid things these past weeks starting with messaging members of other alliances asking for spies. That may be the dumbest possible thing I ever saw attempted over a game such as this. Then the following weeks every post from Kenzu was personal shots at TIE saying bullies blah blah. We all read them. Being Kenzu was pretty much refusing to do anything logical and throwing everything back at TIE trying to make them appear as the aggressor rather then admitting his own faults was another major mistake.

Kenzu speaking on behalf of his alliance got all of WR into a world of trouble. This would be the first forum section that i see many members of WR coming out and stating how they feel in a logical way without insulting or trying to argue which is allowing TIE to also state how we feel without insulting or fighting for the most part.

I started this section thinking Kenzu is pretty much kissing up to everyone at this point. I find it difficult to trust a person that has betrayed every ounce of trust TIE has given him. I fully agree that Kenzu apologizing simply because we ask him to is not a serious apology. Now i feel differently about WR as a whole. I dont think it would be fair for all of WR to be punished for having a leader that has made many many mistakes these past weeks. I think this is a step in the right direction having every1 speaking here. Sad part is that in a few days Kenzu will make another forum topic causing more trouble. Sticking to one forum section would help everyone to organize their thoughts rather then Kenzu posting a whole new topic every time something new pops into his head.

I would like Kenzu to receive some sort of punishment for what he has done but not all of WR. Perhaps just the select few players that have done something against TIE or acted hostile towards a smaller player

@Vesper: the leader you choose to follow is your own decision, one which may hurt or help, in equal measure.

I personally do not sympathize with WR's members. They made the decision to sit by their leader's side through all of his bad calls. No one forced them to do that.

I respect their act of loyalty and, in a possible future war, we should do well not to lessen the value of that loyalty by sparing the accounts of WR members.

@Universe: Indeed, a well conducted annihilation war is highly expensive, but also highly rewarding if successful.

@Jiro: Make no mistake, I have no problems with the vast majority of WR's member base. I do however have a problem with Kenzu's behavior these past weeks, a problem that I would and have only materialized as part of a bigger group. I would never have voiced my opinion if it was a solitary one, I don't see my views as that important for the community.

@kismet: If you take away the noise, you will see that everything Kenzu has done to adhere to TIE ultimatums has been in the same fashion as that apology. I'm sure if you read Kenzu's most recent apology, you can agree that it succeeds in being inflammatory, as opposed to what it should really be.

@ Lil Monster,,,, Intresting choice of words considering you have a full military pact with WR which can very easily drag you into this war because you ARE PUBLICLY a full military allie to WR. You will be watched to see if you join in the fight, and if you send resources to help your allies. So by all means you should know what this is since you are involved.

@ Vader,,,,,, You want a good reason to War?

*Walks is disco, unloaded 35,000 rounds of amunition in the music equipment, walks out in silence* Will that quiet you down?

As for your veiw on Kenzu, I feel pretty much the same. I don't give a rats ass how good or bad of a leader he is. Fact is when you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar, you got two options. Claim you got framed and your innocent (What Kenzu is STILL doing to this day), or be a man, stand up, admit what you did and apologize(Which Kenzu still has NOT done) Then everyone moves on.

@ Kismet,,,, Which one of us has claimed we have not attacked your members? State a name. I hereby state that WR are my #1 farms and have been for months. When I say we have not "laid a finger on you" it at Kenzu and WR as a WHOLE. If you have a piss poor defense and good kewal out, prepare to get smacked for it. I expect the same in return.

Mitola, guess what, THATS HIS RIGHT as a player of this game. How much kewal was out? what was you guys defense? Please don't embarass yourself further.

Cmarius, wasn't your man paid by Reaper himself? Yeah, guess you missed the memo, again your just looking foolish now.

As for The Company's code of conduct, IT DOESN'T EXIST. You know why???
I can tell you why, because we don't bully, bash, intimidate, or hurt the server in any way, AND because we are strong enough and well lead enough to not require one. In layman terms, we don't need one.

As for the ultimatum, YOUR alliance LEADER Kenzu has not YET forfilled the 1st ultimatum. Yet alone any of the following ones. This will not end until Kenzu wants it too. He and He alone keeps this going and will not let it rest.

Finally, as for "what happens to bullies in the end". Yeah I know, I have spent the better part of my gaming career doing. Just like I am about to do it to Kenzu. You are too blind or too stupid to see it, but its true. I have stayed my hand time after time. I have left active account alone many, many times when profit was there, and i challenge you to find 1 single attack from me on any active account in your ranks. You have NO claim to call me a bully. I have every claim to call Kenzu one.

Your alliance leader is the bully, and I am what happens to bullies.

Kenzu has NO visible issue with English, so I disreguard that arguement

and you are seriously mistaken about the first ultimatum. None of us ever wanted any kewal from any of you. All we wanted we for Kenzu to be a man and fess up to what he had done. Stop lieing. Guess what, he still has yet to do either. NO public aplogy, NO revieled spy, NO recanting of the slander that STILL continues. Kenzu has not complied with ANY ultimatum yet. Makes me wonder if he is lieing to you all or if you are that blindly stupid.

Last but not least Kismet.

If I wanted nothing but war, and didnt have any reguard for the health of this game, you would already be a burning husk, along with the only other 4 accounts with a chance of doing any damage.

Never mistake my kindness for weakness, it will be the last mistake you will ever make.

Disco_Vader wrote:
My real suggestion for stirring up a real war is music. Just try to take away my right to play disco. And just try to play country on my territory -- you'd be asking for it!

*plays Johnny Cash - A boy named Sue.

En garde!

@SA47

The cost will be great for me, in resources, in the lives of men, and probably my seat on The Company's High Council, BUT I promise you one thing, your losses will far exceed mine. Not only in resources, Not only in the lives of your men, Not only in the accounts of your alliance, but it may very well cost you that which you hold most dear. It may cost you WR itself.

So you are willing to destroy the accounts of 90 people in order to "punish" one man?

As for The Company's code of conduct, IT DOESN'T EXIST. You know why???
I can tell you why, because we don't bully, bash, intimidate, or hurt the server in any way, AND because we are strong enough and well lead enough to not require one. In layman terms, we don't need one.

How do you reconcile these two statements, given that in the first one you are trying to intimidate a player into doing what you want him to do. I don't know about your dictionary, but in mine that comes very close. All in all, you seem to like the "I am the biggest player so I am right" argument a lot. This, along with an ego and attitude the size of the server does not help in achieving lasting peace, rather than peace as long as noone dares stand up to you.
There are at least two views possible in this discussion and in one, you are indeed the bully.

I completely agree with jiro.



Let us have a look where WR was involved:

3cats4me and space2050
WR newbie attacking a player who they cannot harm after being farmed
Offense: failed attack 0 damage
Result: WR is punished

Starryager vs. Cicero (september 05)
Starryager assasinate a player to farm him
Offense: 82.500.00 kuwal in killed units
Result: I have told him never to be an agressor. He agreed.

tackless-shadow VS skyshadow (august 08)
WR newbie threatening a player who they cannot harm
Offense: threats of a powerless person
Result: tackless shadow responded to the threats with waiting and then massing him and then sitting on him until WR came to help our helpless newbie massing tackless shadow partially killing 2000 (10% population)

tackless-shadow VS rapmaster (august 16)
WR newbie attacking a player who they cannot harm
Offense: failed attack 0 dama
Result: rapmaster massed, rapmaster apologised

redblublu vs rob3rt (september)
Redblulu attacked rob3rt
Offense: killing roughly 500-5000 units
Result: Redblulu has been told by me to stop his aggression, he agreed and made a peace treaty with robert.

rob3rt vs redblulu (september)
rob3rt attacked redblulu as revenge for the previous war
Offense: killing roughly 500-5000 units
Result: rob3rt made peace with redblulu, and promised not to attack again

rob3rt vs redblulu (september)
rob3rt attacked redblulu again, because redblulu was growing too fast
Offense: killing roughly 500-5000 units
Result: rob3rt after being told not to attack redblulu and continuing has been partially massed loosing 11.000 units, roughly 10% of population.

cmarius (The Company) vs ConnorMacLoud (World Republic) (september 25)
cmarius attacked (sab and assassination) our member.
Offense: 30.000.000 damages
Result: paid by reaper

Korruption vs Starryager (october 07)
starryager threatened korruption for farming him. Later he apologised for the threats. After some time Korruption massed Starryager even though Starryager didnt harm him and apologised.
Offense: Korruption killed over 100.000 miners and wiped his military (50% population)
Result: Korruption continues to bully starryager and sit on his account. After being talked to, he said that he will sit on him until he gets bored of the game. Korruption is clearly bullying a WR member.

As you can see it is not true what ian is trying to make you believe. He says that WR is bullying smaller players, when in fact its the small players of WR who get bullied by others, simply because they are inexperienced in this game. And if you read the threads in the personnal forums section, you will see that it's true!

I am helping them by telling them that they should never threat others and by punishing those, who bully smaller players and don't give them a chance at this game. Obviously this will happen frequently, as their are always new members to World Republic.

Instead of accusing us of being bullies, you should help us protect new players from bigger players. Of course it is wrong when someone threatens you, but if you see that guy is 10 times smaller than you, you will not destroy him. Instead you give him advice what he should do in this kind of situation. You should help new player no matter what alliance they are in and not simply beat up every little guy who is angry at you for stealing his hard earned kuwal. People, please have more empathy!





Now the following is targeted at Ian
(and the last paragraph for TIE members)

"Bullying is repeated acts over time that involves a real or perceived imbalance of power with the more powerful person or group attacking those who are less powerful."

I think thats exactly what TIE is doing to WR.
You are aware of your power and you try to force your will through coercion and threats.

(3cats4me and space2050)
remember when Ian made an ultimatum threatening to destroy WR over an issue where a newbie from WR, declared war on someone from The Commonwealth who he cannot even hurt and didnt make any damage either? It was clear that this happened because of the players inexperience.
What does The Commonwealth do?

Bash World Republic for it, even though nothing happened.

You made an ultimatum, asked for code of conduct and compensations. We have agreed to the ultimatum and you dropped the demands.

This should have been the end of ultimatums, but you went further and kept asking for more and more. We have fulfilled your ultimatum in the best way we could and you shouldn't become greedy and continue bullying us.



You should know that it is a private matter of an alliance if they have spies or not. World Republic doesn't need any spies, because the more you talk, the more hostile you are towards World Republic, the more your members are telling me about the situation in your alliance. Does everyone who gives me information about your alliance count as a spy? Because if they do, then you have 33% of spies in your alliance, including you.

You say I am lying to you, but you have not provided a single proof where I have lied to you.

On the other hand, I know for a fact that you lie every now and then. You have provided me with a self made conversation with lord pegasus that he is your spy. If you took the effort to create such a conversation to lie to me and make me feel he works for you, I don't doubt you will not lie again.

You lied when you said that Sara attacked Reyno and didnt apologise. She has apologised and the conflict has been settled before you knew about it. Why did you make another ultimatum based on this event?

You keep lying so often I cannot be sure when you don't lie.
And I wonder how it is possible, that so many of your members still believe you after I have prove many times that you have lied.

You accuse me of having a spy in your alliance. You said it's Vance. You said you have a proof, why don't you let everyone here see the proof?

If you know for sure that he is someone's spy, why don't you boot him from the alliance? I even believe that you have posted your "evidence" on the forum, and the evidence has been made by you, just like your evidence against lord pegasus.

--------------------------------------------------------------

This part is for TIE members:

Reaper ist much more trustworthy than Ian, but then again he might have been fooled by Ian with certain things.

Now that I have proven that Ian was liying about some things, you should consider all the bad things he might have told you about me. You should never believe a single person, you should question all information and always consider if it was possible that someone could have "produced evidence". Please don't follow your leader blindly. No matter how much you trust him, you should always have a clear mind and not be guided by emotions. You know that he created evidence to destroy my trust in lord pegasus, therefore you should take into account that he might have created evidence to destroy your trust in me. Question everything you see!

Hey Kenzu, I thought the issue here was to start over again with a new page, a clean slate. Proving one side is right or wrong does not help here, not even if there is such a thing as a side who is right.

Your last post only makes me (and others undoubtedly) want war even more.

Who are you trying to convince? What unknown force are you trying to sway? Why are you repeating the same things over and over. You can't fragment TIE. We act as one. The simple fact that you insulted both Ian and Reaper in your last post shows how much you underestimate that unity.

Hell, if even I am made to want war (and Ian can confirm how much I like wars), you reaaally are not hitting the right notes.