Re: Changing of units, dropping normals and changing supers.

by seaborgium Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:44 am

Admin wrote:
according to the poll people generally want the prices to remain different and most people want to have the prices approximately as they were before
changing the cost of training is not on hold but gone forever

ok now thats settled, thank you

Admin wrote:I will be removing normal soldiers though from the game as expressed by the players in the previous poll, i'll toss a coin about whether i'll do it before the month ends or after, since we obviously dont want to screw people over about something they didn't know long enough in advance hint hint and make some dolls sad

Well to frank, you aren't allowing them to be trained either so they don't do anyone any good, I would just remove them. You only screwed 1 person as far as I know, and that was me. I would have used them for the last and final medal. I am sure I can find another way to do it. o I can't use them anyways, which the doll should be happy as right now I can't get the last 2 awards. NOT that its of any use to do it as the reason for it hasn't been released yet.

Now that you have posted your judgment I can now do plan 2 and I will just have to work on plan 1 another day.

by Manleva Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:13 am

Admin wrote:wounded units will get introduced since more than twice the people expressed explicit interest in having them ingame than the amount of players who wished not to have them.

farm/raid missions will not include wounded units, the votes about this one are as of this moment precisely tied so I'll drop in my "admin" judgment to decide the final outcome and deem that it will not have any beneficial effect if farming/raiding carries wounded units

this is a preliminary post, subject to change as i sleep over it, however chances are i will not be editing this again
result of the coin toss will be known tomorrow

Just a couple of comments on these two items.

Personally I have mixed feelings around wounded units. I suspect that many of those in favor have looked at this from one side only and that is the effect war will have on them and will have seen that their losses have suddenly been halved thus reducing the cost involved to them on the defense side of the equation while forgetting that on the attack side they will now have to double their attacks to achieve what they can do currently. Recovery will also become much easier and possibly quicker. However I'm not sure this is necessary given that this is a non reset game so rebuilding is not really that great of an issue.

I do however see that this reduction in overall losses can also be beneficial to newer and smaller accounts as it provides some protection.

On the exclusion Farming and Raiding from wounded units I think that you are making a mistake because you have left it as an expensive action. From comments made in the forums Farming and Raiding are one of the prime causes of war here so it seems a little shortsighted to make war cheaper to engage it but not to make a prime cause of war cheaper as well

by Nomad Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:27 pm

Manleva wrote:
Admin wrote:wounded units will get introduced since more than twice the people expressed explicit interest in having them ingame than the amount of players who wished not to have them.

farm/raid missions will not include wounded units, the votes about this one are as of this moment precisely tied so I'll drop in my "admin" judgment to decide the final outcome and deem that it will not have any beneficial effect if farming/raiding carries wounded units

this is a preliminary post, subject to change as i sleep over it, however chances are i will not be editing this again
result of the coin toss will be known tomorrow

Just a couple of comments on these two items.

Personally I have mixed feelings around wounded units. I suspect that many of those in favor have looked at this from one side only and that is the effect war will have on them and will have seen that their losses have suddenly been halved thus reducing the cost involved to them on the defense side of the equation while forgetting that on the attack side they will now have to double their attacks to achieve what they can do currently. Recovery will also become much easier and possibly quicker. However I'm not sure this is necessary given that this is a non reset game so rebuilding is not really that great of an issue.

I do however see that this reduction in overall losses can also be beneficial to newer and smaller accounts as it provides some protection.

On the exclusion Farming and Raiding from wounded units I think that you are making a mistake because you have left it as an expensive action. From comments made in the forums Farming and Raiding are one of the prime causes of war here so it seems a little shortsighted to make war cheaper to engage it but not to make a prime cause of war cheaper as well

Would you please explain the underlined part?

The strike a def cost will only change by the training cost of 1/2 their losses in men. Since the weapons make up 2/3 to 3/4 of the cost there is no reason a strike is going to have to double to take the same defense?

As for not allowing farm/raid missions to have wounded,,,,

I happen to agree with it. Farming and raiding missions are already massively cheap when it comes to losses. Look at the cost/losses ratio between a farm/raid and a military action.

I don't like the wounded idea myself either, I think its a bad move, but if its going to come over and help make all the games in this franchise the same, I say hes doing it right, JMO.

by ian Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:36 pm

Admin, regarding wounded units... can you adjust it slightly please.

Make it so a player has to purchase field hospitals which affect the % of the number of their "dead" soldiers to be saved. Maximum % is the 50% you propose to introduce - but only after numerous hospitals have been built i.e. 50 (1 hospital = saves 1%) or 100 (1 hospital = saves 0.5%)

This way there is another area of investment for a player to make, and for them to benefit from having only 50% units killed each time, they ll have to have invested into the necessary infrastructure (Hospitals). The hospitals could cost 1billion kuwal and 5000 untrained units (staff) or something.

Also... thinking ahead, you could then make hospitals killable by airforces. The ability to blow the enemy hospitals apart, increasing the enemy's actual death-rates... will be of a *huge* strategic importance in future wars - making air-forces a very very very useful tool to have (not even mentioning the other abilities you ll give them lol)

by Nomad Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:50 pm

or to add to Ian's suggestion. Have the buildings only represent 1/2 of the "ability" to heal units. To get the max benifit it cost to a turn % of your income. The more money you divert to hospitals the better your heal ratio is.

just a suggestion.

by Admin Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:08 pm

actually heal rate was something I hoped would be one of the features for the level 2 research facility

while the idea of building hospitals seems intriguing, for now i'll leave it at 50%, but an interesting concept might be that you have a base wounded rate of 10-20% and then can add another 30-40% by building those hospitals

the income idea also looks good so i'll consider that too

by Nomad Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:30 am

Admin wrote:
for example i'll be also raising personal bonuses for the races to 90%, since people were generally against that

Race Specific Bonuses
# Hualu [Balanced]:
# Can have up to 60% of all personal points in any stat (Defense, Covert, Income, Attack)
# Kyora [Covert]:
# Can have up to 80% of all personal points in Covert (up to 50% in all others)
# Miraya [Defense]:
# Can have up to 80% of all personal points in Defense (up to 50% in all others)
# Daning [Attack]:
# Can have up to 80% of all personal points in Defense (up to 50% in all others)

Will Hualu be getting any additional points as well, or are you just basicly screwing the race as a whole?

by seaborgium Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:37 am

it was sarcasm

by kingkongfan1 Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:59 pm

Admin wrote:
for example i'll be also raising personal bonuses for the races to 90%, since people were generally against that.

1). where did this come from? I did not see anything in the poll about this...
2). If people are against it, then why are you going to add it?

legit questions or not, I don't know, but I feel like I'm missing something important here, & don't know what it is...

by seaborgium Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:24 pm

seaborgium wrote:it was sarcasm

by kingkongfan1 Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:24 pm

**smacks self on forehead with heel of right hand**

now I get it... late as usual... lol.

by seaborgium Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:14 pm

*pets Kong*

by J1nx Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:47 am

can i confirm that the price of training supers isnt gonna change?
before i start bulking up my defense for xmas Smile

by Admin Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:17 am

cost of training will not change

by Salaam_Alaykum Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:52 am

wounded units will get introduced since more than twice the people expressed explicit interest in having them ingame than the amount of players who wished not to have them.

Admin can you put in a button we can click to kill our wounded units, cause I rather kill them then waste my time retraining them, I don't care about the cost, I'll be happy to pay a price to be able to kill them all in one click, So can you plz?

by Kenzu Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:29 pm

Salaam_Alaykum wrote:wounded units will get introduced since more than twice the people expressed explicit interest in having them ingame than the amount of players who wished not to have them.

Admin can you put in a button we can click to kill our wounded units, cause I rather kill them then waste my time retraining them, I don't care about the cost, I'll be happy to pay a price to be able to kill them all in one click, So can you plz?

Why would you kill them?

If you lost military units, you will need to replace them sooner or later, so why use your untrained AND pay training cost if you can train your wounded FOR FREE?

by kingkongfan1 Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:05 am

Kenzu wrote:
Salaam_Alaykum wrote:wounded units will get introduced since more than twice the people expressed explicit interest in having them ingame than the amount of players who wished not to have them.

Admin can you put in a button we can click to kill our wounded units, cause I rather kill them then waste my time retraining them, I don't care about the cost, I'll be happy to pay a price to be able to kill them all in one click, So can you plz?

Why would you kill them?

If you lost military units, you will need to replace them sooner or later, so why use your untrained AND pay training cost if you can train your wounded FOR FREE?

Kenzu, you are not looking at how diffucult it is for players to take the extra step to train just the wounded back into whatever, because if you just put in an order to train then you wind up paying to train those "free" units as you call them, players like simplicity, as in train 'em, kill 'em, train some more. this whole wounded/healed unit thing is not setting well with more than a few players, so you have to expect posts like the one above... for me I did not vote for it, do not really care for it, but the majority of the players wanted it, so I accept it...

by Manleva Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:34 am

kingkongfan1 wrote:Kenzu, you are not looking at how diffucult it is for players to take the extra step to train just the wounded back into whatever, because if you just put in an order to train then you wind up paying to train those "free" units as you call them, players like simplicity, as in train 'em, kill 'em, train some more. this whole wounded/healed unit thing is not setting well with more than a few players, so you have to expect posts like the one above... for me I did not vote for it, do not really care for it, but the majority of the players wanted it, so I accept it...

You have missed something here Kong. Training of healed units is free, if you have 5000 UU and 1000 healed units and train 5000 Attack soldiers then the 1000 healed units and 4000 UU will be trained and you will only be charged for training the 4000 UU. There will also still be 1000 UU waiting to be trained.

It's quite simple really, if your going to train military units first then check how many healed units you have and train them first before training any UU.
The only impact is that they have to be trained and training speed is governed by the number of Training Facilities.

I am not sure why anyone would want to kill something that they have already paid for only to pay for it again thus doubling the training costs of some units especially as the wounded units have cost 150K each to train.

by Kenzu Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:46 am

kingkongfan1 wrote:
Kenzu wrote:
Salaam_Alaykum wrote:wounded units will get introduced since more than twice the people expressed explicit interest in having them ingame than the amount of players who wished not to have them.

Admin can you put in a button we can click to kill our wounded units, cause I rather kill them then waste my time retraining them, I don't care about the cost, I'll be happy to pay a price to be able to kill them all in one click, So can you plz?

Why would you kill them?

If you lost military units, you will need to replace them sooner or later, so why use your untrained AND pay training cost if you can train your wounded FOR FREE?

Kenzu, you are not looking at how diffucult it is for players to take the extra step to train just the wounded back into whatever, because if you just put in an order to train then you wind up paying to train those "free" units as you call them, players like simplicity, as in train 'em, kill 'em, train some more. this whole wounded/healed unit thing is not setting well with more than a few players, so you have to expect posts like the one above... for me I did not vote for it, do not really care for it, but the majority of the players wanted it, so I accept it...

There is no extra step involved, no matter if you have wounded or not, you simply click the train button, and done.
Please tell me, where is the extra step?

by Admin Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:24 am

As kenzu put it. It automatically trains wounded units first and will obviously not deduct any kuwal for these units.

Any further units you want to train will come from your normal uu's where you also pay the cost.

a new player will see no difference to before except that they will sometimes pay (much) less

by seaborgium Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:42 am

I don't think is working properly, I have trianed units and I am sure it cost me kuwal.

by Nomad Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:45 pm

I always bank all kewal, then train the exact amount that are ready. If you train 1 man more then is ready it will charge you fully for them all from what i can tell

by Admin Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:57 pm

Nomad wrote:I always bank all kewal, then train the exact amount that are ready. If you train 1 man more then is ready it will charge you fully for them all from what i can tell

it will automatically split up the units into the group that comes from healed units and from uu's.

I just checked by giving myself 500 healed then training 600 attackers. It only cost me 15 mil

by Kenzu Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:04 pm

seaborgium wrote:I don't think is working properly, I have trianed units and I am sure it cost me kuwal.

Maybe you trained more units than the number of healed you had.

by kingkongfan1 Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:13 pm

Nomad wrote:I always bank all kewal, then train the exact amount that are ready. If you train 1 man more then is ready it will charge you fully for them all from what i can tell

here is your extra step, & proof that you wind up paying for the "free" units when training...

If you do not train healed units by themselves, you have to pay for their training, I have observed this twice so far, do not know if it is a bug or what, I just know that is the way it is, I have worked around it so it is no big issue for me, was just trying to help you understand some players point of view...

Kenzu wrote:
seaborgium wrote:I don't think is working properly, I have trianed units and I am sure it cost me kuwal.

Maybe you trained more units than the number of healed you had.

let me try this again, if I have 1000 healed units, & want to train 10,000 units, if I train all 10,000 units, it will use the 1000 healed units, but charge me for their training, the only way to get them "trained free" is to train them seperately, i.e. the extra step I was refering to...

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