Massed Bonzo

LOL

Yeah, a bunch of wimps that stand together whenever they feel threatened.

Individually some of them feel that they have the right to do as they wish but when ever someone looks at them sideways they scuttle back to their little safety net.

Capt_Blood wrote:LOL

Yeah, a bunch of wimps that stand together whenever they feel threatened.

Individually some of them feel that they have the right to do as they wish but when ever someone looks at them sideways they scuttle back to their little safety net.

Don't forget Imperium is also a group of alliances united into one Empire

Commonwealth
The Company
Lord Of Legends
Fedaykin

The main difference is such that while TIE united the them under on alliance, TOC uses a different approach.

In the end the number of alliances doesn't matter anyway. What matters is the force that one side can project on the other and the level of organisation.

Additionally, having an empire more decentralised and spread out into multiple alliances is a disadvantage over a centralised empire like TIE, since there is more communication effort to be done.

lol
TIE has 1 leader, the 4 alliances that you talk about are no more.
Every leader cept 1 of the 4 have moved on or dropped from the game.

Still TIE has members of all these alliances.
The fact that ian is now the supreme leader of all 4 plays into his hands, it´s not a disadvantage, thus the empire has much more power than if he remained the leader of Commonwealth without absorbing other huge alliances.

Also, I hope no one will come with claiming that TIE lost many members to new alliance that sprung up, because each major alliance including WR and Mujengan lost members to new alliances too.

I rest my case.

Tbh there is a big diffence between 1 alliance getting 4 alliances under 1 tag vs 4 alliance getting togeter to form an empire but based one you post you will never see that.

seaborgium wrote:Tbh there is a big diffence between 1 alliance getting 4 alliances under 1 tag vs 4 alliance getting togeter to form an empire but based one you post you will never see that.

Not to mentiion there's a big difference between a empire which peaked at 50 members (currently 31), and a empire which has 129 in currently... and peaked at 150+

Incidentally Kenzu... you still haven't responded to my PM . So... I ll ask again - which World Republic player do you want me to mass?

None

Don't mass anyone.
I don't understand your obsession to start another war.

Kenzu wrote:None

Don't mass anyone.
I don't understand your obsession to start another war.

Coming from a guy who's the joint-leader of a empire who's other joint-leader has just started a war against a other player, and who also coincidentally has told World Republic to prepare for war with The Imperium

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Since according to admin's post on this topic, sharing of ingame Pm's is only prohibited when they involve abusive language, and given these are *my* Pm's I ve chosen to send to you/ someone else (who's trying to get his head around why I m threatening WR )... and given you ve not bothered to respond back at all, I figured I ll share them with the server at large

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Subject: no subject
[15 Nov] 13:03

So... which World Republic member do you want me to mass?

I ll let you choose

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Subject: So... times a ticking...
[16 Nov] 11:48

So...... Which World Republic member would you like me to mass first? Your choice

Of course, the easy solution to this would be rather than my massing a World Republic member, you actually *uphold* your principles and publically say you disagree with the massing done by a TOC member (Lord Ishurue) of Bonzo for no reason other than boredom, and then offer Bonzo some sort of settlement/compensation for his losses incurred.

So far all I ve seen from you is your asking why he was massed..... and then nothing. You ve stood by and said and done absolutely NOTHING while a fellow Order of Chaos member targets a innocent player.

Yet you claim to a fair & just protector of the server, someone who opposes aggression and bullying. Yet you ve done nothing - not even utterred a "I really disagree with this action, and think its unfair & bullying" statement.

Lord Ishurue has made no such claim... he's honest about how he acts, and what he thinks. I have absolutely zero problem with his actions... but I have a problem with your making claims of who & what you & WR stand for, yet remaining absolutely silent while a member of your own empire, a alliance you support 100%, acts completely opposite to those claims *you* make.

Your silence makes you guilty for what is happening to Bonzo. Therefore... I m going to do to one of your members as Lord Ishurue has done to a non-TOC member. If that gets me massed... so be it. The Imperium is more than happy to go to war

#####################################################

You ve got 24hours to either make some sort of condemnation of the attack on Bonzo & to make some sort of attempt to offer him some funds/resources to help rebuild, or alternatively you ve got 24hours to let me know which WR player you ve chosen to get massed.

Its your call

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The above 2 were sent to Kenzu, the below 2 were also forwarded to Kenzu, but sent to someone else.

Subject: No Subject

Figured I d send you a pm I just recently sent Kenzu.

The thing which I hate about Kenzu the most is he says one thing, then does another... unless of course its to do with TIE, in which case he always seems happy to follow up with what he said when it suits him.

I.e. he's repeatedly made his stance clear that massings without reason = unfair & bullying. He's tried to unite the server on more than one occasion to oppose so called "Imperium aggression".... and yet when its one of his own - a member part of his empire - what is his response?

Does he uphold the massing without reason = aggressive & bullying stance he's held so so so many times when dealing with hypothetical (i.e. mere threats, something which never happened), massings by Imperium Member?

Does he even bother to utter a simple sentence outright opposing the attack?

Does he even bother to get involved at all (when clearly as the joint-leader of TOC, he would have some influence in getting LI to stand down)?

The answer is no. He hasn't done anything whatsoever.

As long as its a TOC member doing it its fine... but if its anyone else, he threatens them (or runs to the rest of the server begging for help), and condemns their actions.

Thus... I figure its time to give Kenzu a incentive to actually act on the Bonzo issue.

He can either follow his so called "principles", or he can choose to ignore those principles, and then watch me mass one of his members because I m bored (which I am btw lol).

If he then begs TOC to smash me into the ground, not only will it be starting the 2nd TIE-TOC war, it ll also be exposing Kenzu for the little spineless weasel which he is - namely one who claims one thing, then acts completely differently.

#####################################################

As I ve said, I have absolutely zero problems with LI's actions at all. I understand perfectly why he's doing them.

The problem I have is Kenzu's "flexible" moral stance - based on when its convenient for him & WR. Hence why I m going to apply a little bit of pressure to force Kenzu into a course of action - which either war - will *not* be convenient for him or WR.

I ll be forwarding this PM to Kenzu btw, just to keep him in the loop

###########################################################################


Now we all get to see whether Kenzu will do the *right* thing (according to his own principles) and offer Bonzo some sort of help rebuilding (his call on how much)... and whether he ll have the spine or not to follow up his principles via at the very least saying he disagree's with LI's actions and asking him to leave Bonzo alone... rather than currently sitting watching Bonzo get wrecked, while desperately running around to the other TOC leaders telling them big-bad Imperium is threatening them again

Not to mention preparing World Republic for war with TIE... when the reality is I haven't even mentioned TIE until today (about 20mins ago)

SO..... is anyone else up for joining in a "Mass a World Republic player untill Kenzu grows a spine and stands by his self-proclaimed principles" rally? It ll be fun... I ll bring the cake

@ Kenzu - I'll keep calling TOC wimps until I see something to the contrary.
That you don't know what one of the other leaders is up to just underlines how poorly organized TOC is.

Also why all the crap about TIE. Irrespective of what you believe they appear in the game as ONE alliance and appear to act as ONE alliance. Where they came from is immaterial. Also bringing TIE into the discussion was pointless as it has nothing to do with TIE.

@Ian - Why do you want to mass a WR Member? WR have done nothing.
Stop being a whimp, show some backbone and go mass Lord Ishurue. Show us that you can do more than write long, boring and irrelevant posts.

Or using your own words grow a spine and do something yourself instead of looking for everyone else to do it for you.

Capt_Blood wrote:@Ian - Why do you want to mass a WR Member? WR have done nothing.
Stop being a whimp, show some backbone and go mass Lord Ishurue. Show us that you can do more than write long, boring and irrelevant posts.

Or using your own words grow a spine and do something yourself instead of looking for everyone else to do it for you.

I d suggest you re-read the post.

My problem is *not* with the fact Lord Ishurue massed a innocent player. My problem is with the fact Kenzu repeatedly claims TOC are the protectors of the defence-less and never the aggressive people. My problem is that if this was anyone else (i.e. TIE massing a innocent player) you can guarantee Kenzu would have a problem with it, and make those objections known in the best possible way to slander the aggressors/ make them appear hostile.

The fact Kenzu has not done ANYTHING, other than ask for the reason of this attack... is what my problem is with.

Why the hell would I hit Lord Ishurue? He can do as he pleases... as he's not the one who tries all the "we are fair and just players" crap which Kenzu does....

Incidentally, why don't you reveal your true identity and I ll happily show you what I can do ingame. I get sick of people who choose to flame other's without having the guts to reveal their true identity....

TM was sent a PM from a person in WR asking us to stay out of the war.

hey man, long time no mailing. *** told me there might be a big war between imperium and WR, and i heard from him that you have been a pretty big member of the wars and u fought for imperium. well i was kinda mailing you to ask if you wud change your ways and fight for WR?? PLEAASE?? or at least stay out of the war? if you stay out imperium will be losing a pretty big fighter, so please fight for us or at least stay out, pretty please?

I will say this TM and TIE may be friends but we don't have a pact together. Unless there is a need we won't be doing anything.

seaborgium wrote:TM was sent a PM from a person in WR asking us to stay out of the war.

hey man, long time no mailing. *** told me there might be a big war between imperium and WR, and i heard from him that you have been a pretty big member of the wars and u fought for imperium. well i was kinda mailing you to ask if you wud change your ways and fight for WR?? PLEAASE?? or at least stay out of the war? if you stay out imperium will be losing a pretty big fighter, so please fight for us or at least stay out, pretty please?

I will say this TM and TIE may be friends but we don't have a pact together. Unless there is a need we won't be doing anything.

I can confirm there is no pact between TIE & TM. Neither has The Imperium asked for The Marauders to assist in a war.

For that matter... neither was The Imperium planning a war. Its just Kenzu's paranoid delusions kicking in of the big-bad Imperium coming for him.

Worst Case Scenario: I d have massed a random WR member (probably a barely active/inactive member, opening up a farm) as I ve warned Kenzu I will unless he does something about the Bonzo situation. How WR then chooses to proceed would be down to them.

Anyway.. that *was* The Worst Case Scenario. Now the new worst case scenario is that The Imperium opts to eliminate World Republic's offensive capabilities... since Kenzu has been repeatedly warned if WR keeps contacting other alliances looking for allies to join against The Imperium... that we would retaliate.

The above PM is a specific request by WR for another alliance to fight with them against The Imperium... and considering this whole "TIE vs. WR" thing was a product of Kenzu's imagination until today... well, recruiting allies is a aggressive action. Pure and simple.

The wheel spins, and thus the circle begins again.

I sent a message to Bonzo and Ebduncan, leader of Bonzo's alliance on 13th of November to find out what exactly happened. I also contacted Ishurue.

I got a reply from Ishurue on the 14th. There was no reason why Ishurue attacked Bonzo.

Ishurue's action against Bonzo was wrong and World Republic is against it.
We believe Ishurue should provide some sort of compensation for his attack on Bonzo.

And if he doesn't?

Kenzu wrote:I sent a message to Bonzo and Ebduncan, leader of Bonzo's alliance on 13th of November to find out what exactly happened. I also contacted Ishurue.

I got a reply from Ishurue on the 14th. There was no reason why Ishurue attacked Bonzo.

Ishurue's action against Bonzo was wrong and World Republic is against it.
We believe Ishurue should provide some sort of compensation for his attack on Bonzo.

Thank you. I would hope that if LI doesn't, then yourself/WR would at least do a voluntary collection to undo some of the damage another TOC member has done.... Its the thought that counts...

Considering he lost almost 4mil trained uu and tons of weapons, I don't think he will be getting much of what he loss back.

seaborgium wrote:TM was sent a PM from a person in WR asking us to stay out of the war.

hey man, long time no mailing. *** told me there might be a big war between imperium and WR, and i heard from him that you have been a pretty big member of the wars and u fought for imperium. well i was kinda mailing you to ask if you wud change your ways and fight for WR?? PLEAASE?? or at least stay out of the war? if you stay out imperium will be losing a pretty big fighter, so please fight for us or at least stay out, pretty please?

I will say this TM and TIE may be friends but we don't have a pact together. Unless there is a need we won't be doing anything.

Now that message is hillarious lol. I have no idea who sent it but keep them coming . I need more entertainment like this. Trying to persuade sea and the rest of the alliance (almost none of which who were previously in WR) to fight for them and begging us not to join in? Are we feared that much LOL. Good try though

Kenzu wrote:
Ishurue's action against Bonzo was wrong and World Republic is against it.
We believe Ishurue should provide some sort of compensation for his attack on Bonzo.

This is a start, I will give you theat much... but actions speak louder that words, & as long as you are partnered with Lord Ishurue, & no compensation is paid, then the above statement is meaningless...

The one thing I am puzzled at is why you are barking at Kenzu, whereas Ishurue massed Bonzo and it is Ishurue you should be yelling at.

As an outside viewpoint, Jiro is totaly correct.

Kenzu apologised and said wr had nothing to do with it, even messaging the attacker to try diplomacy.

Now instead of attacking someone who is in the wrong for massing without reason, your going to mass a totally innocent member of wr? why because its easier?

The guy who was massed wasn't even in the empirium. looks to me like Ian you just want to start some action...

Anyways that's how it looks to everyone on the outside...

melonhead wrote:As an outside viewpoint, Jiro is totaly correct.

Kenzu apologised and said wr had nothing to do with it, even messaging the attacker to try diplomacy.

Now instead of attacking someone who is in the wrong for massing without reason, your going to mass a totally innocent member of wr? why because its easier?

The guy who was massed wasn't even in the empirium. looks to me like Ian you just want to start some action...

Anyways that's how it looks to everyone on the outside...

Right, ok then. So your advocating The Imperium - as one of the only other 2 powers (the other being TM) able to actually stand up to TOC, sit back and do absolutely nothing when TOC decides to mass a innocent player for just the hell of it?

Some could argue that that is pure selfishness, other's might argue those with the power have a duty to use it responsibility - that includes both in their actions, and in their responses to other actions (if my actions get Bonzo to be left alone by LI.. is that not a good use of those actions? & its even better if he gets some resources as compensation...)

As it is... @ both yourself & jiro honestly your right. I have absolutely no issue with Bonzo being massed. He's not my concern. The issue I have (and it seems this forum has many people lacking the ability to understand a simple enough reason which has been given about 2 or 3 times now) is that Kenzumany many many times in the past has been very very vocal in his objections to "unfair" actions (i.e. massing of players for no reason) and has on more than one occasion actively told people The Imperium is aggressive & hostile (reality is the only time we ve massed people was in the 1st & 2nd WR-TIE War, and 1st TIE-TOC war), going as far to seek out allies via encouraging them to join with WR to avoid the "threat" we represent.

There have been long and difficult arguments with Kenzu concerning the rights of individuals to declare personal war's without fear of being bombed back into the stone ages by that person's alliance (I.e. Kenzu still believes if say... a WR player decided to farm another player repeatedly, and that player he was farming contacted the WR player asking to be left alone, and the WR player simply kept ignoring him.. that if the player being farmed then chose to resort to force due to being ignored (rude) & repeatedly farmed and declared a 1 vs 1... he d be bombed back into the stone age by all of TOC)...

Basically then... Kenzu's stance is simple: You shouldn't ever target another player without adequate reasons (i.e. coming under attack yourself). Inadequate reasons include being bored, and being farmed. In effect... his stance is that if someone hits a TOC player without good reason, they get nuked by all of TOC. This is what's forced on the server (I say "forced" because thats simply how it is with regard to attacks on TOC).

& thats precisely my problem and reasons for being prepared to target Kenzu/WR. All of Kenzu's stances (untill now) were being abandoned simply because Lord Ishurue is a powerful & influential TOC member.

My reason for being annoyed is simply the hypocrisy of Kenzu - one rule for TOC, another for the rest of the server.

*Thats* why I was prepared to randomly target a WR player. Its with Kenzu's personal stance/past statements and how he seemed to have abandoned them with regard to this situation which Is what I have/had a problem with, not with LI's recent actions...

As it is, Kenzu seems to have at the least partly made known (publically) his objections to LI's actions... *after* my previous posts on this topic. Before he said he disagree's with LI's actions, all we had was a "why did you mass him"... and then days of nothing. Where I m from thats called turning a blind-eye when its convenient to do so a.k.a. flexible morals/stances which Kenzu doesn't mind forcing on non-TOC members

@ Ian - I can read perfectly well, it's a pity you can't.

The title of the thread is Massed Bonzo and the Massing was done by the LI.

Kenzu and WR have only been dragged into the discussions by you just so that you prattle on about your own theories and try to twist it to you own ends.

If you really want to mass someone in WR why do you need permission. If your as good as you think you are then go mass Kenzu, I'm sure you will get his attention then.

Oh, and as to why I'm hiding, it's because I've been here long enough to know that most of the wimps around here can't stand on their own to feet.
If you include yourself in this category that's your decision. And don't worry, one day when I can meet you on an even footing I'll come visiting.

@ blood
to me hiding is just that cowardliness. While I do understand why, as some here I know in this game play other games and would have massed you and others for less then what you have said.
WR was dragged into this mainly due to being in the same empire that Muj are in. Also as Ian has said Kenzu/WR don't stand for some of the actions that Muj have taken.
While I think each allinace has there own set of rules. Its a matter of principle. I know who Muj are, I know who WR are.
I honestly only know 1 reason why they are in the same bed, and have totally different morals when it comes to this game.
Have you also read what Kenzu/WR has said about TIE?
I was in TIE and I have talked to the other alliances, I know what was said. Hell even to this day I have been told about what Kenzu has been sending to other alliances. He is still trying to turn the server against TIE. All I do is shake my head as it seems that he hasn't learned. Also has Kenzu really presented much evidence showing TIE is this big bad allinace that he says they are? Random massings, pushing people around. The only pushing that TIE has done is against people who broke farm policy.
Even TM has done that. I have had to resort to using military force on 2 occasions as people broke farm policy. Whats funny is person was in Muj, the other person was in another alliance and is now in Muj and is still being hit for his actions by TM.

@Ian please leave TM out of this. We find the reading funny and well the most action in a long time. We would rather not be grouped into it with TIE.

Capt_Blood wrote:If you include yourself in this category that's your decision. And don't worry, one day when I can meet you on an even footing I'll come visiting.

LOL, I ll be waiting I suspect thats never going to happen... thus its nice and easy for you to promise something you know you ll never be in a position to achieve

Cowards are always the same... they hide from a fight, while criticizing others knowing they can't be retaliated against

@ seaborgium - you need to think before you make comments as you may offend others, I'm not the only one who has more than one forum login.

I liked this comment though "Whats funny is person was in Muj, the other person was in another alliance and is now in Muj and is still being hit for his actions by TM." It's a great insight to Muj as an alliance.

ian wrote:

Capt_Blood wrote:If you include yourself in this category that's your decision. And don't worry, one day when I can meet you on an even footing I'll come visiting.

LOL, I ll be waiting I suspect thats never going to happen... thus its nice and easy for you to promise something you know you ll never be in a position to achieve

Cowards are always the same... they hide from a fight, while criticizing others knowing they can't be retaliated against

I'll try not to keep you waiting to long but you are over 4 times my size. I am growing but unlike some I prefer to work at doing it myself rather than buying my way up the ranks.

I know others who have more then one, they also don't hide the fact of who they are. They let it known that 1 is informal and 1 is formal. You will also notice that the informal one doesn't make snide remarks about others.

hmm if Ian is 4 times your size that means you are just about my size then, would you like to tango?