Poll Results

by Admin Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:49 pm

Total users who filled out survey: 187

Punishment/User	Ioz	Vesper	Seaborgium	Damgood
Too small	54	107	66	51
Normal	106	65	93	74
Too High	27	15	28	62

12 people suggested a permanent ban, four of those said though simply resetting accounts would be ok too along with a temp ban
20 people suggested temporary bans of various lengths, matching generally the ratios shown in table
2 people suggested those who knew should be punished too

This case isn't over yet, just figured since vesper wanted to make it public so badly, he'd also be interested in the results of the poll he forced me to do.
Can it be argued that the setup of the poll and the explanation of the situation was biased? Of course, but there's tons more things one could argue which I really wont bother dealing with because it's just technicalities which are really not worth my time. Explaining the whole thing in detail then wouldn't have taken up a third of a page but 9 times as much.

Ah yes in case someone wants to start arguing that users in WR or other alliances were incited to vote in one way or another, then I'll honestly advise you to just not do it. Sure 9 of those 15 who said vesper's punishment was too harsh were in TIE, so some correlation existed between choice and affiliation, though I decided to pick this one because it was one of the few rather extreme cases. But there were still more than 9 people in TIE who figured vesper received a too small punishment.

by skyfighter Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:37 am

Is that topic up for reply? I've not been playing this game for a long time but my opinion is that a cheater should get an extended ban-time if it's their first offense, if not give them a chance to explain themselves (and behave) before removing them for good.

I mean if they are aware of a bug and use it without reporting it, it's cheating right? please no semi-punishment, its either black or white.

by Vesper Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:27 am

- Auto-banking - was punished with several days worth of resources lost
- Tricking admin's Paypal to recieve free upgrades - was dealt with a temporary ban and having to pay back the $$$ i think
- Multi-acounting - was completely ignored as long as the account's didn't interact with one another (this was after they had been interacting and sharing resources)
- Resource feeding - resulted in a couple of day's ban and a couple of day's resources being taken.
- Exploiting a bug to gain an advantage over other players - Permanent ban later removed and have over 50% of the account UU stripped.

I am fine with the punishment. Admin told me he was going to take more and I didnt complain as i agreed i deserved a heavy punishment. I just felt a permanent ban was a bit excessive considering the other punishments the admin has issued in the past which are listed at the start of this post. I feel the punishment of having some resources taken falls more into the consistency of the admins previous punishments.

by Admin Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:31 am

9) Any breaking of the rules can result in punishment, suspension, banning, account deletion, or in cases of serious and repeated offenses banning of your entire ISP.

Can't see anything about having to stick to past punishment patters, plus I said over and over in the past the following:
I'll be balancing punishments depending on how the playerbase grows and how often incidents start piling up. And that the punishments in the past were sometimes light on purpose however that it wont be the case forever.

Case 2: no harm done there, plus said person didn't try to make a scene out of it
Case 3: never happened as you describe it, whatever that was
Case 4: if that's the case I'm thinking then it was more than a couple of day's resources, way much more
Case 5: Yh, the only one to directly screw with other active players

So I'll stick with the constitutional practice. You dont compare things which can't be compared.
Trying to argue someone shouldn't get a punishment that is explicitly stated in the rules, just because some other breaches totally not comparable with this one received punishments on the lower end of the spectrum, is silly to say the least. Plus I always consider the attitude, you vesper pretty much beat them all together a few times over.

by Kenzu Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:08 pm

Vesper wrote:- Auto-banking - was punished with several days worth of resources lost
- Tricking admin's Paypal to recieve free upgrades - was dealt with a temporary ban and having to pay back the $$$ i think
- Multi-acounting - was completely ignored as long as the account's didn't interact with one another (this was after they had been interacting and sharing resources)

Multi accounts were banned regularly and from the beginning.

- Resource feeding - resulted in a couple of day's ban and a couple of day's resources being taken.

Accounts were banned regularly and from the beginning for such actions.

- Exploiting a bug to gain an advantage over other players - Permanent ban later removed and have over 50% of the account UU stripped.

I am fine with the punishment. Admin told me he was going to take more and I didnt complain as i agreed i deserved a heavy punishment. I just felt a permanent ban was a bit excessive considering the other punishments the admin has issued in the past which are listed at the start of this post. I feel the punishment of having some resources taken falls more into the consistency of the admins previous punishments.

by Admin Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:45 pm

Vesper btw if you think that making a multi on the test server, then try to attack it for the resource packages, then deleting the multi because the attack failed due to coded blocks gets you extra credits, then you're seriously mistaken.

And really, if it doesn't work once then I really dont get why you tried hitting that attack button 6 more times.

Obviously you wont get punished for it because it's the test server, but I simply take it as further insight into your personality which apparently has not changed even the tiniest bit and will know what to expect in the future.

by Kenzu Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm

Some people never learn

by Vesper Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:38 am

i was testing something on the test server, I was sorta surprised to see multiple people grow 30mil army size overnight. Was trying to see how they did it. I dont care much about the test server as you can most likely tell by how often i login. O and if your wondering why it hit 6 times it is because i click the attack button many times before the page loads so i get more then 1 attack in while waiting for the page to open up, you played dune so you should know about that tactic.

by Admin Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:02 am

some people test, some people ask.
even with this "fast grow" i had people from both categories Smile

dont you think you should start only showing up in that other category

by Vesper Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:44 am

i have no idea what your talking about. both categories?

by Manleva Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:27 am

I think that I like many others responded to the poll without knowing who if anyone was involved so I would say that the results fairly represent the view of the majority.

The only other comment that I will make is that I think that Vesper is very lucky. In the previous game that I played Admins decision were final and not up for explanation or discussion. If a thread like this appeared in the forum then it would result in the person being banned from the forum

by Vesper Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:59 am

in a larger game admins working that way gets the job done. in a smaller game every decision the admin makes impacts if people play the game. If admin kept 2 people banned over that I do not think it would have been a matter of just 2 people being banned that he would lose. Based on how he handled the situation most likely would have resulted in many others leaving the game.

I am glad i was unbanned. I could even say I am grateful. That doesn't change that fact that I still feel i was treated unfairly. Anybody that receives a punishment that extreme should be very grateful and happy that it has been lifted.

Here i thought the whole situation blew over yet admin continues to revive the discussion. I am doing nothing else but loggin in, banking, and training UU. I am being very cautious to not do anything to the main account that might even appear as cheating and when admin told me he was taking more UU as a punishment I had no outburst or discontent what so ever yet he comes to the forums and picks my case to bring up over the others yet again. There is no difference between my case and the others except the frequency.

I dont see why we cant let this die off already as it is done already. I have received a heavier punishment then everyone else, apologized, the victims that i sabbed received their resources back, i had the score removed from my military records. Any gain, benefit, anything you want to call it has been completely removed and then some from my account. We all make mistakes and it is annoying that people come and pretend as if they do not. There is absolutely nothing else I can do to undo what is already done. I am ready to put this behind me and move on. I dont see what the benefit of dragging this out is.

by Admin Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:01 am

Vesper wrote:There is no difference between my case and the others except the frequency.

There was, glad you accept that fact finally.

About why it's not over, well the first post is pretty clear on that.
But it wont be long, i'll get to this soon

by Admin Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:02 am

231 = 6 Day Temp Ban
575 = 32 Day Temp Ban
255 = 12 Day Temp Ban
49 = 12 Day Temp Ban

by seaborgium Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:41 pm

1. I hope someone has said something to the owner of 231. about whats going on.
2. How is it that myself and damgood got a 12 day ban when he was the first to be permbanned?
3. How it is that vespers account got a 32 day ban and damgood got a 12 day ban and again damgood was the first to be permbanned?
4. When does the ban start? when you first put it in place OR from when we tried to login.

by Admin Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:51 pm

1) the owner knows
2) i dont remember anyone to get permabanned
3) length correlates between % of units lost and ratio of people who wanted harsher/easier punishment, again dont see the permaban argument
4) when i put it in place

by Vesper Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:52 pm

length correlates to % lost? I lost around 55% of my army and have a ban nearly 3 times as long as the rest? How much did you take off of damgood then?

Majority said that the punishments were just right on the other accounts so what is up with the spur of the moment 12 day banning?

My punishment was viewed as 2 weak so you took another 1.5mil UU off my 4.5mil account. Bringing the total to over half taken away. Much more % wise then anybody else to make my punishment more harsh to compensate for the poll results.

But I knew admin would keep randomly punishing long after the fact and continue to do sentences which is the only reason i decided to sell my account along with over 10 other players.

by seaborgium Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:15 pm

I ask what eas removed from each account since everything else was posted

by Admin Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:35 pm

231 lost around a quarter
all the others lost around a half. vesper a bit more, sea a bit less.

so yes, you losing %-wise more than twice as much as the 6 day guy and there still being 3.5 times more people who thought you got away too lightly (7 times more people thought you had too easy punishment than those who thought you got hit too hard, only twice as many for ioz).
3.5 x 2 = 7 times harder punishment, if you want i'll make your ban length be proportional, i.e. 42 days. I dont mind, your call.
I just figured I'm doing you a favor by skewing the ban length for you, apparently that was a mistake, once again.
However understanding that you might not have thought clearly before posting, i'll let this one slip, this one time.

About this being punishment after the fact...
Look at first post, bold underligned text. You maybe seen any other post revoking said statement?

by David Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:00 pm

Acknowledging the punishment. Knew this might happen when I bought the account.

by skyfighter Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:11 pm

About vesper comment, not that I have anything against him personally, but if admin felt you have hurt the game more than other players did it's fair that he punish you with what was appropriate. And if you're saying than you along your 10 other "friends" are selling their accounts because of this I say fine, this game doesnt need cheater nor bug abuser in it Twisted Evil

by Vesper Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:41 pm

@sky I am not really friends with any of the other people selling their accounts. Only 1 of my "friends" quit the game.

@Admin since you are going off of the poll results with the 7 times does that mean I will receive the 1.5mil UU back that you did not take yet when you sent the poll out and received the responses? Meaning that I will receive that 1.5mil UU back and you ban me for the 10 more days (42 days) if you are taking in proportion like you brought up about how the people felt.

by Admin Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:15 pm

The units I took off you were included in the poll. Initially I took 1.5 mil and then another 2 mil and in the poll it said 3.5 mil from your 6.4 mil account taken. If you want I can reupload the file again, even thought most likely you'll just think that I added the numbers just now, but as always I'm willing to go the extra step in the non important matter of persuading you I'm not out to get you.

by seaborgium Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:01 am

could you post the text here?

by Admin Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:09 am

Spoiler:

by Sponsored content

Poll Results

Poll Results

Re: Poll Results

Re: Poll Results

Re: Poll Results

Re: Poll Results

Re: Poll Results

Re: Poll Results

Re: Poll Results

Re: Poll Results

Re: Poll Results

Re: Poll Results

Re: Poll Results

Re: Poll Results

Re: Poll Results

Re: Poll Results

Re: Poll Results

Re: Poll Results

Re: Poll Results

Re: Poll Results

Re: Poll Results

Re: Poll Results

Re: Poll Results

Re: Poll Results

Re: Poll Results

Re: Poll Results

Re: Poll Results