Re: Looking for ideas on race features

by Nomad Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:46 pm

Lord Ishurue wrote:

If u pick a race like miraya Kyora or Danning . then your bonus points all should be in their stat .

if u want balance pick huala.

i would say specialized races can put 90 or 100% of their bonus points in their race's stat ( defense for miraya etc ) and 20% in other stats .

tech discounts . huala 10% on all techs. specialized races 30% on their tech .

when u hit 200% techs the price doubles. ( to go from 199% to 200% covert for kyora was ~ 7.8 bil ish. to go from 200% to 201% cost 16.1bil ish )

90 to 100 is way way way to much. A danning pushing all strike would be way over powered. It would also promote a not so nice style of play such as carring a massive strike, which has fewer losses due to all the strike bonuses, and no defense. In theory thats not a bad thing in most games but due to the extremely high cost of destruction missions, which is the only way to null a strike, its not a good thing in this game perticular.

Remember to rebuild a balanced account you have to build strike, and defense, and build it much much bigger due to the attacker having 90 or 100% PBP in strike while you get only 30%. Now the striker only has to build strike alone, and to a much lower scale to get the same results.

anything over 50% is outrageous, and I only think 50% is acceptable due to the fact it can be countered to an extent by the defenders PBP.

**edit**
another thing is, strike can kill asassins with its strike, while assassins have to suffer the losses of beating the assassin power to hit a stike.

covert can sabb, but weapons can easily be recovered at a low price and quickly(buying weaker weapons from arms dealers as its instant). Then the strike takes out the defense and assassins at once using hunt assassins, leaving the covert vulnerable. This also means a covert race has to build 3 stats to protect itself, while strike only builds 1.

by Jiro Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:31 pm

if you build only stike as a Daning, then I will have no problem assassinating/sabotaging your strike. So you need your covert/assassination action as a Daning as well. I agree you need it to a lesser extent.

by Lord Ishurue Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:54 pm

Nomad wrote:
Lord Ishurue wrote:

If u pick a race like miraya Kyora or Danning . then your bonus points all should be in their stat .

if u want balance pick huala.

i would say specialized races can put 90 or 100% of their bonus points in their race's stat ( defense for miraya etc ) and 20% in other stats .

tech discounts . huala 10% on all techs. specialized races 30% on their tech .

when u hit 200% techs the price doubles. ( to go from 199% to 200% covert for kyora was ~ 7.8 bil ish. to go from 200% to 201% cost 16.1bil ish )

90 to 100 is way way way to much. A danning pushing all strike would be way over powered. It would also promote a not so nice style of play such as carring a massive strike, which has fewer losses due to all the strike bonuses, and no defense. In theory thats not a bad thing in most games but due to the extremely high cost of destruction missions, which is the only way to null a strike, its not a good thing in this game perticular.

Remember to rebuild a balanced account you have to build strike, and defense, and build it much much bigger due to the attacker having 90 or 100% PBP in strike while you get only 30%. Now the striker only has to build strike alone, and to a much lower scale to get the same results.

anything over 50% is outrageous, and I only think 50% is acceptable due to the fact it can be countered to an extent by the defenders PBP.

**edit**
another thing is, strike can kill asassins with its strike, while assassins have to suffer the losses of beating the assassin power to hit a stike.

covert can sabb, but weapons can easily be recovered at a low price and quickly(buying weaker weapons from arms dealers as its instant). Then the strike takes out the defense and assassins at once using hunt assassins, leaving the covert vulnerable. This also means a covert race has to build 3 stats to protect itself, while strike only builds 1.

currently u can have 80% in main stat. if u want to be a danning miraya or kyora then 80% of your PBP should be in their main stats.
it does not make any sense to allow specialized races to have balanced bonus points .

if u want balance pick huala who can do 60% in all is my opinion .

if a huala wants an edge against danning they split their pbp between strike and covert. the danning wont be able to defend against that kind of strike. and the huala can even sab them . if a huala is going up against a kyora. a split between covert & defense bonus should be able to counter a kyora whose built around strike & covert .

with 90% in main stat .
a danning player who has 46 pbp would be able to have 42 points in strike vs the current 37 .

with 100% in main stat
a danning who has 46 pbp would be able to have 46 points in strike vs the current 37 .

1,100 2,310 483,560 (157 %) 76,504

even if the danning bought MBTs at the arms dealer. their paying 57% more which is not cheap for MBTs . and their is only 76k at that price .
if they go with IFVs their unit loses would be too high .

a danning with 46% strike bonus 200% Attack tech and Mobile artilery

14,500 x 2.46 = 35,670 power of 1 armed super

if they want a 9bil strike
they need 252,312 supers .

if a huala with 23% strike bonus 200% techs

14,500 x 2.23 = 32,335 power of 1 super

278,336 supers to get the 9bil strike .

if a kyora or miraya with 200% attack tech and 0% attack bonus wanted that strike

14,500 x 2 = 29,000 per armed super

9bil/29,000 = 310,344 supers .

yes the kyora and miraya would have to spend a little more to get the same strike if they wanted to strike like a danning or huala they should of picked danning or huala .

by Admin Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:37 pm

It will sooner give hualu only 40-50% into each stat, which is what i've been considering for a very long time, than give the specialized races 90-100% into each stat.

by Nomad Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:12 pm

Admin wrote:It will sooner give hualu only 40-50% into each stat, which is what i've been considering for a very long time, than give the specialized races 90-100% into each stat.

well you always been set on killing Hualu, this will damn sure do it.

by Lord Ishurue Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:57 pm

Nomad wrote:
Admin wrote:It will sooner give hualu only 40-50% into each stat, which is what i've been considering for a very long time, than give the specialized races 90-100% into each stat.

well you always been set on killing Hualu, this will damn sure do it.

my suggestion was making it so if people want balance or dual accounts ( strike & covert , Defense & income, etc . )
should pick huala .

and force all the dannings , Kyora's and Miraya's to max out their bonus of their stat . 90-100%

atm if a player wants a balanced race military wise they should just pick miraya . and put the bonus into strike and covert. then with the 20% tech discount boost that to a level a huala cant keep up with .

with races this is my suggestion . ( makes no sense for huala to get a tech discount on assassin techs when kyora gets a 15% discount on assassin advancements and nothing for assassin tech . )

# Hualu [Balanced]: NO Bank Fees Charged
# 20% Bank Size increase .
# construction upgrades 3% Less expensive
# Weapon Advancements 6% LESS expensive
# Spy Skill Advancements 6% LESS expensive
# Assassin Skill Advancements 6% LESS expensive
# Basic Covert Technologies 10% LESS expensive
# Basic Defense Technologies 10% LESS expensive
# Basic Attack Technologies 10% LESS expensive
Basic Assassin Technologies 3% LESS expensive
# Can have up to 50% of all personal points in any stat (Defense, Covert, Income, Attack)

# Kyora [Covert]: 2% of Bank Deposits lost as Fees
# Basic Covert Technologies 40% LESS expensive
Basic Assassin Technologies 5% LESS expensive
# Spy Skill Advancements 15% LESS expensive
# Assassin Skill Advancements 15% LESS expensive
# Can have up to 100% of all personal points in Covert (up to 10% in all others)

# Miraya [Defense]: 2% of Bank Deposits lost as Fees
# Basic Defense Technologies 40% LESS expensive
# Weapon Advancements 25% LESS expensive
Basic Assassin Technologies 1% LESS expensive
# Can have up to 100% of all personal points in Defense (up to 10% in all others)

# Daning [Attack]: 1% of Bank Deposits lost as Fees
# Basic Attack Technologies 31% LESS expensive
# Weapon Advancements 35% LESS expensive
# Can have up to 100% of all personal points in Attack (up to 10% in all others)

by Nomad Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:42 pm

ok, for the sake of arguement, and because i may be wrong on the formula, please explain exactly what the power levels would be per race using MBT and 100K men on def and strike.

maybe the difference is not as big as I am thinking it will be.

I would still hope haula get 60% since they have no specilty, because being capped at 1/2 just isnt fair.

Haula cant stand up to danning strike, miyria def, kyora covert. cutting them down even further is not the answer.

by Admin Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:53 pm

Nomad wrote:Haula cant stand up to danning strike, miyria def, kyora covert. cutting them down even further is not the answer.

kinda a false argument if you ask me, really fallacious one.

by Lord Ishurue Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:25 pm

Nomad wrote:ok, for the sake of arguement, and because i may be wrong on the formula, please explain exactly what the power levels would be per race using MBT and 100K men on def and strike.

k . assume they all have same tech % . all have 46 pbp

100k ASs DSs with MBT

ASs = attack supers
DSs = Defense Supers

46 defense pbp = 62.1 defense bonus
23 defense pbp = 31.5% defense bonus

46 attack pbp = 46% attack bonus
23 attack pbp = 23% attack bonus

huala ( 50/50 Atack & defense pbp )

(11,000 x 1.23 ) x 100k ASs= 1,353,000,000 strike action

(11,000 x 1.315 ) x 100k DSs = 1,446,500,000 defense action

Danning ( 100% attack bonus)

(11,000 x 1.46) x 100k ASs = 1,606,000,000 Strike Action

11,000 x 100k DSs = 1,100,000,000 defense action

Miraya ( 100% defense bonus )

11,000 x 100k = 1,100,000,000 Strike action
(11,000 x 1.621) x 100k DSs = 1,783,100,000 Defense action

Kyora ( 0% attack & Defense bonus )

11,000 x 100k = 1,100,000,000 Strike action
11,000 x 100k = 1,100,000,000 defense action

Nomad wrote:maybe the difference is not as big as I am thinking it will be.

I would still hope haula get 60% since they have no specilty, because being capped at 1/2 just isnt fair.

Haula cant stand up to danning strike, miyria def, kyora covert. cutting them down even further is not the answer.

The difference would not be to drastic . .

if your a huala with a defense and covert bonus u still would have a slight edge against massing other dannings .

you would have the edge on saving resources and your Atack tech would grow faster then a danning's defense tech . when destruction mission occurs . they defend at 70% power. which would for most part nutralize their strike bonus . if they used critical to defend at 102% thats a lose of 60% of their income which could have gone to re build their strikes . while in the mean time u up your attack tech or even covert tech to sab or destruction away their gain in strike defense by the use of critical .

You would even have an edge against kyora's who specialize in strike and covert. those kinds of accounts would rely on sabbing the enemy then assaulting. your covert bonus could block the kyora from sabbing profitably or very least much higher loses for them making them think twice on trying to soften u up with sabs . . with your defense bonus against a kyora with 0% strike bonus and same techs as u . your defense would be capable of guarding against their strike . with a balance in covert & Defense your account would be better defending a kyora's then a miraya or danning due to them having no covert bonus or 10% of their points .

Huala = balance or dual type account . no specialty .

in short a huala would have no weaknesses but at the same time no extreme advantages over others .

by Nomad Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:14 pm

I am more comfortable with the suggestion now as its not how I thought it would be. The differences are not as drastic as I thought.

by Nimras Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:41 pm

Admin wrote:
Nomad wrote:Haula cant stand up to danning strike, miyria def, kyora covert. cutting them down even further is not the answer.
kinda a false argument if you ask me, really fallacious one.

Comming from the guy who wanna kill Haula off and make them weaker and weaker plus comming with crappy updates like the farm and trade system to force players play your way.

What about you started benefiting the game instead Wink

.

by Nomad Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:20 am

He has in many ways, and even tho you dislike a few update, many happen to like them.

@ Admin,, please explain your statement.

You wanting to cut the Haula % DOWN to 50% while INCREASING everones elses % to 100%, Effectively giving each race DOUBLE the % the hualu are even capable of reaching, and you think that my concerns are completely false?

So if you have 4 accounts, 1 of each race, all basicly the same size, and all built to their race bonus, then it will not stand up to the dannings strike, it can not break the myria defense, nor can to stop a covert attack from the kyoria. Explain to me how saying that is false in any way?

by seaborgium Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:45 am

Admin wrote:It will sooner give hualu only 40-50% into each stat, which is what i've been considering for a very long time, than give the specialized races 90-100% into each stat.

he is saying that he would cut Hualu before giving others 90-100%

by Nomad Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:54 am

amazing how seeing an"e" instead of an "a" changes things.

TY Seaborgium for pointing that out.

by october_17 Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:26 am

ive said it before but... cough cough income cough cough techs

by Nomad Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:51 am

are not the answer.

why create a system (AE) then create a way to defeat the system?

by Admin Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:45 pm

so that i waste time going in circles?

by Nomad Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:33 pm

Your doing enough of that with the fiasco with reset and Kenzu's game now.

So no more is necissary.

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