Upcoming test releases

1) Farming system:
https://aderanwars.forumotion.com/upcoming-updates-f23/bold-rework-of-farming-system-very-long-t871.htm

2) Weapons system:
- No more repairs
- If a unit dies then the weapon they were holding is lost
- For practical reasons, best weapons get destroyed first instead of a proportional part of all weapons

3) Unit losses are as follows:
Hunt Assassins/Invasion
Defender 1.1%
Attacker 1.5%

Assault/Destruction
Defender 4%
Attacker 5%

Farm/raid remains as it is.

4) AT/ST cost of strike/assassin/covert missions changed

5) assassin missions kill 3-4.5% with each mission, lose 7.5% per mission (basically 50% increase in power)

6) Normal soldiers training cost down to 1500 kuwal per unit

7) To leave the adrenaline in battles, there is now an option of changing battle tactics for attacker and defender. These only work during assault missions and can be read in the battlelog.
Can be changed in the armory (right side of the screen)

Spoiler:

8 ) Weapon Upkeep

Spoiler:

9) Colored player names (only for people with VIP SS)

test server active

7) I would not make too many options, since it makes the game too complicated for beginners. The game should stay as userfriendly as possible.

If you want an option what to do, you should add a possibility called: "counter attack". In counter attack, if you would be attacked by someone in an assault. If that persons defense is smaller than your strike, your attack forces would attack him in an assault mission that would cost you 0 AT and 0 ST.

So there would be 2 modes
"Standard defense"
and
"Counter Attack"

You might want to add a third option called:
"Fortify"

As soon as you set fortify, your attack forces will join up with defense forces in any battle where you are attacked by attack units.
your attack units would fight with 70% efficiency.

At the same time, your attack units would not be able to attack for 48 turns from the point, where you set back to normal "Standard defense" and "Counter Attack"


But I personally prefer to keep only 1 mode. Keep the normal mode.
Do you want to defend yourself against an attack? Go on ppt and launch a counter attack after a couple of hours, or assault the enemy yourself.

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Weapon Upkeep

1% and more to pay each day is too much.

0.5% upkeep per day is enough for all weapons.

I must say this is alot to test at 1 time, might have been a bit better to break this down to 2 or 3 at a time.

I have to disagree with #7 based solely on the fact the aggresser is always online, and can change modes after each attack, find the best one and kill with less losses. The only time this is any good is if both are online at the same time, and that seems to be very rare on AW due to its small player base.

#3 I also question a great deal. Before you had weapons that broke and defenders who were "easy kills". Now with the weapon sytem you never get those easy kills and now Hunt assasins/invasions/assault/destruction now kill more of the attacking force then the defending force? Coupled with defenses that never fall and it might just put an end to them alltogether.

Also on weapon upkeep, I can't get a handle on what you mean cost wise. each weapon is going to cost you 1% of your income? I mean thats only 100 total you can have then? So please elaborate more on that so I know what to expect.


Ready and willing to test and try all changes, just saying I think this may be too many all at one time.

Nomad wrote:I have to disagree with #7 based solely on the fact the aggresser is always online, and can change modes after each attack, find the best one and kill with less losses. The only time this is any good is if both are online at the same time, and that seems to be very rare on AW due to its small player base.

Please confirm that you did indeed notice the uppermost left one where when defender has normal, then the attacker cannot gain an advantage.
It's up to the defender to make the first move, if the defender doesn't use this then the attacker has nothing to gain.

Nomad wrote:#3 I also question a great deal. Before you had weapons that broke and defenders who were "easy kills". Now with the weapon sytem you never get those easy kills and now Hunt assasins/invasions/assault/destruction now kill more of the attacking force then the defending force? Coupled with defenses that never fall and it might just put an end to them alltogether.

Attack losses on hunt assassin and invasion mission was before
2% on attack
0.25% on defense

Assault/Destruction was before
7.5% on attack
3% on defense

Plus considering the fact that you can actually ZERO any stat with sabotage and assassination...
To me all of this is pretty self explanatory, so if you are still misunderstanding anything you are welcome to ask.

So in a nutshell, in addition to hunt assassin and invasion missions now actually killing some defenders with each attack (compared to close to 0 before), and repair costs being gone for these attack types (which constituted about 90% of the actual costs incurred to the attacker), you are now able to do 2 jobs at once. Kill whatever your target is AND defense units for no extra cost at all.

Nomad wrote:Also on weapon upkeep, I can't get a handle on what you mean cost wise. each weapon is going to cost you 1% of your income? I mean thats only 100 total you can have then? So please elaborate more on that so I know what to expect.

where did you read each weapon cost 1% of the income?
I can only find 1% of weapon value per day, and even then it was a example of concept not actual value to be used.

Nomad wrote:Ready and willing to test and try all changes, just saying I think this may be too many all at one time.

They dont work one by one, at least most of them dont

point 1

I did actually miss that point so good thinking on your part. I like that.

point 2
I still honestly don't understand, these numbers are effected by strength i assume? the more I over power them the lower my losses and the higher theirs?

Point 3
"1% of weapon value per day" that I understand. I must have missed it before. Would like to see the cost for the high military accounts.

Will there be something showing you exactly what your weapons are costing you?

point 4
I am starting to see how they work together mate.

Nomad wrote:point 2
I still honestly don't understand, these numbers are effected by strength i assume? the more I over power them the lower my losses and the higher theirs?

Yes, just before it was close to suicide trying to hunt assassins with an active defense. Considering attacker lost 8 times as many units.
Now since defense will not go down to 0 (unless you do a few sabs or assassinations) the losses for both sides have gotten leveled out a bit.

Plus when you hunted assassins, the repair costs were a major cost factor, more than at's.
So before: 1) you paid significant repair costs
And now: 1) you save yourself repair costs
2) you lose some extra units and weapons
3) you kill much more defenders during these missions than you could have before (along with their weapons)

Trust me, once the point gets across you will understand that the situation is not as different as it was before

Nomad wrote:Will there be something showing you exactly what your weapons are costing you?

will only add an extra line in the income details page for the total upkeep cost, but not actual division of which weapons cost how much

I think I understand it all much better now

as for the cost, should do for now, but maybe later a better break down could be added, only if needed.

TY Admin, well thought out it seems.

well at least you bother to ask questions, not like some other people who'll just think "the update sucks, etc." and leave their, often incorrect, opinion to themselves

I try.

I also encourage other to do the same.

i am training supers, spies, assassins, farmers and miners but i can't choose the training order

is it in the order i payed for the training? currently some farmers are trained even though i would prefer the spies and i don't remember in which order i payed for their training

please post more details about this as i am really confused about training different troops and not being able to choose what type to train first

PS: the spies and the assassins were added the same time for training, so even if they would be in the order they were payed for, which order would be in this case?

really confusing, the possibility to set the priority would be very helpful in training

right now the training facility will train whichever unit group has the least units left to train, order in which the training started does not matter

Admin wrote:right now the training facility will train whichever unit group has the least units left to train, order in which the training started does not matter

oh... in this case i guess it's ok, thanks for the answer

Ok, upkeep formula will be as follows
0.075% * weapon level = upkeep cost PER DAY per weapon

Starts with automatic pistol

Knife 0% of value
Automatic pistol 0.075% of value
Submachine gun 0.150% of value
APC 0.600% of value

So 50,000 APC's will drop your income by 700,000 per turn
150,000 IFV's will drop income by 3,881,250 per turn

However I have no set idea on what to do in case someone manages to get negative income.
Simply deleting the weapons would be a boner, and selling them each turn to cover upkeep is a pain to calculate

Potential fix would be that if you reach negative, a significant portion of your armory gets sold to cover upkeep for the near future (a few days) and then kuwal keeps getting taken out of your bank

What about letting the weapons get damaged when income becomes 0ed?

down to say 10% of original strength so weapons are not removed from income loss but basicly useless?

just an idea?

Somewhere in this you said that as the units die the weapons disappear since there is no unit to hold them. What if you train more units then you have weapons armed? Would you be able to lose units and not lose the weapons as long as you always have more supers then weapons you hold? Or is it if 100 units die you lose 100 of your best weapons regardless?

Vesper wrote:Somewhere in this you said that as the units die the weapons disappear since there is no unit to hold them. What if you train more units then you have weapons armed? Would you be able to lose units and not lose the weapons as long as you always have more supers then weapons you hold? Or is it if 100 units die you lose 100 of your best weapons regardless?

If you did that you could, just for an example, have 100 weapons and 10,000 defending troops, and have the same defence until the person kills 9,900 of those soldiers.

-Alex

That would, especially with the higher level weapons, be extremely efficient.
*goes to test*

Universe wrote:That would, especially with the higher level weapons, be extremely efficient.
*goes to test*

Hence you can know what will be the result of the testing even before you do it

all weapon researches after the tank get way too expensive. but their efficiency is not that much better.

I recommend the weapon researches after tank will be simple multiples of 2.

otherwise we simply boost everything into % techs and dont need weapon research at all. Besides stronger weapons cost more to repair after a hit than smaller ones.

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In the armory page I'd swap the colums. the right one should be left and the left one should be right.

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Farming targets with higher defense should not require multiple hits.

If this cannot be done, please remove the possibility of farming targets with higher defenses altogether.

I would prefer to see a system where farming a defense which is 2 times bigger than your strike will lead to:

- 2 times more repair costs for the attacker (than if the strike and defense were equal)

AND

-the amount of kuwal stolen would be 50% (percentage kuwal stolen = strike/defense ratio)

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If I farm and my weapon suffers say 40 points damage, the defender should suffer let's say a halfe of my points in damage (in case strike and defense is the same)

This means the defenders suffoers 20 points in damage.

This means that someone armed with knifes or pistols gets them destroyed all in one go, afterall a tank costs 300.000 to build and a knife only 1.000.

Since we dont have points in the test server, he would loose soldiers + weapons in the same amount of points.

Kenzu wrote:otherwise we simply boost everything into % techs and dont need weapon research at all. Besides stronger weapons cost more to repair after a hit than smaller ones.

1. This is where you need to do the math, to figure out which is better.
2. you are right stronger weapons cost more for repair if you rearm all of your supers, but if you only rearm to reach the same value as before it cost less....

Kenzu wrote:
If I farm and my weapon suffers say 40 points damage, the defender should suffer let's say a quarter of my points in damage (in case strike and defense is the same)

This means the defenders suffoers 20 points in damage.

This means that someone armed with knifes or pistols gets them destroyed all in one go, afterall a tank costs 300.000 to build and a knife only 1.000.

Since we dont have points in the test server, he would loose soldiers + weapons in the same amount of points.

I just had to say 20 is not a quarter of 40. 10 is however

Universe wrote:That would, especially with the higher level weapons, be extremely efficient.
*goes to test*

Let me know what you figure out. I am still in training for a long long time, i cant wait for admin to put in that training update where we can pick what we train

trust me, you're not the only .... (insert appropriate word here) who put 4.5+ mil units into training income

and theres people who train something else than farmers

oh yeh, added the priority thing

seaborgium wrote:

Kenzu wrote:otherwise we simply boost everything into % techs and dont need weapon research at all. Besides stronger weapons cost more to repair after a hit than smaller ones.

1. This is where you need to do the math, to figure out which is better.
2. you are right stronger weapons cost more for repair if you rearm all of your supers, but if you only rearm to reach the same value as before it cost less....

Kenzu wrote:
If I farm and my weapon suffers say 40 points damage, the defender should suffer let's say a quarter of my points in damage (in case strike and defense is the same)

This means the defenders suffoers 20 points in damage.

This means that someone armed with knifes or pistols gets them destroyed all in one go, afterall a tank costs 300.000 to build and a knife only 1.000.

Since we dont have points in the test server, he would loose soldiers + weapons in the same amount of points.

I just had to say 20 is not a quarter of 40. 10 is however

Even if you neglect rearming costs, it makes no point researching such a weapon.

the level after tanks cots 167 billion for miraya and daning, probably 190 billion for other races.
But the next weapon is only 25% better than the tank. Instead of researching next weapon, you can increase your attack and defense techs, each to 160%, making it as efficient as a weapon 2 levels above tank.

Now, if you dont research that weapon, but instead increase attack and defense forces by 25% it will costs you ALWAYS less, unless these 25% cost more than research of weapon + rearming. Assuming rearming still costs 0 (that you can sell weapon for 100% of its value), researching would be feasible, if your defense and attack forces + weapons cost 668 billion kuwal.

I guess the best players have around 150k forces in total now with tanks thats a value of 150.000 x (250.000 + 308.000) = 83.7 billion

It will make sense only if the attack and defense forces are 1.400.000 in total, in other words 9 times bigger than now

However, instead of paying 167 billion kuwal for research, you could get 1.6 million untrained, which as farmers would produce at least 2 billion per day. Is that all worth it?

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It can be a quarter, it can be a half, but please, it should be relative to the damage of the attackers weapons.

If my tank suffer 40 points from 1100 to 1060 (each point costs 280 to repair)
and the enemies Submachine Gun suffers 1 point from 20 to 19 (each point costs 180 to repair)

then I dont think this is something that should remain this way.

PS: a weapon that has 1000 points, should survive MUCH MORE hits than a weapon that has 100 point.
Now I didnt make an experiment, but I am certain that I cannot use a tank (1100 pts) 10 times more often before it's destroyed than a sniper rifle (90 pts).