PRT and Donations for others

You Admin as much as I hate PTR I would love for one thing to change.

The possibility to get someone to buy you a donation where you can OWE them the UU or Kuwal agreed and pay it back without doing anything to PTR but what IT would have done when it was bought for you.

I mean I would love VIP I know a few who would gladly buy it but the price is heavy before PTR we would have done it so I payed the agreed amount over time like half of what I RAID and get in UP a day until the depth is re payed. PTR stops that.

Its not feeding and it helps everyone I mean if someone could buy VIP at 100$ for some you get the money and both players get it.

You could make it like a repayment system so when you make the deal as we do now you set it to agreed deal re payed over time and then the player who owes the other side go in and pay there so the system keeps track, no direct transfer or like GM but for repaying the loan for a Donation.

It should be manageable and it would be something that shouldn't be able to be misused you will earn Money and the one who buy the donation will get what they agreed on without worrying for PTR.

I have a few ideas on how to do it so it can't be abused and would benefit the game and the players I just need to work on the numbers to double check.

But if others have ideas on how to do this I would appreciate it as I think it would bring more people to help others and the ability to get a donation like VIP without having to save up very big amounts of UU somewhere either on ones own account or on the GM to be hold and it would also mean players who like the game can get SS faster by repaying.

Off course there should be a system in place to protect the one buying so they do not get cheated out of what they are own in ingame resources which is what my ideas also work against I just need to check as I said numbers and the work of it to make sure is easy to implement, it benefits all and abusing it should be something that can't happen or at least very hard to do and easy to spot in case it is done.

it was planned to change it for donations that for any donation where you dont receive any resources in return instantly will act as a "cushion" towards future transfers to your account.

it will be only active if this would improve your PTR, not if it would hurt you.

Example, let's say you donated for others and your cushion is worth 200 Turns.

Example a) In total (transfers in - transfers out) you RECEIVED 500 Turns
Your end PTR will be calculated as if you had received 300 Turns

Example b) In total (transfers in - transfers out) you SENT 500 Turns
Your end PTR will be calculated as if you had SENT 500 Turns
(in this case the cushion would not help you since it only allows you to receive more, not to send more and hence will not become active and not give you a PTR of 700 Turns sent)

This cushion will always exist and will never decrease and will only get active when needed.

This will obviously get applied to all donations for others retroactively.
Suggestions?

Admin wrote:it was planned to change it for donations that for any donation where you dont receive any resources in return instantly will act as a "cushion" towards future transfers to your account.

it will be only active if this would improve your PTR, not if it would hurt you.

Example, let's say you donated for others and your cushion is worth 200 Turns.

Example a) In total (transfers in - transfers out) you RECEIVED 500 Turns
Your end PTR will be calculated as if you had received 300 Turns

Example b) In total (transfers in - transfers out) you SENT 500 Turns
Your end PTR will be calculated as if you had SENT 500 Turns
(in this case the cushion would not help you since it only allows you to receive more, not to send more and hence will not become active and not give you a PTR of 700 Turns sent)

This cushion will always exist and will never decrease and will only get active when needed.

This will obviously get applied to all donations for others retroactively.
Suggestions?

Hmm and would this make it so I could get VIP donated by someone and over time send him/her the UU agreed on without mine or theirs PTR get screwed because I couldn't pay the whole amount when the donation was done?

that'd be the point of the cushion it exists all the time and is in effect when needed.

If you get sent something AND you've received more than you sent away then this cushion would decrease it and help you get closer to 0.

I like this idea!

Great idea, i thnk with this more people will buy SS and VIP etc

Admin wrote:that'd be the point of the cushion it exists all the time and is in effect when needed.

If you get sent something AND you've received more than you sent away then this cushion would decrease it and help you get closer to 0.

Aha yes yet with your explanations it still sounds like what I asked is not possible at all.

And many others read it the same.

Lets say someone buy me 100$ VIP and gets 2mill UU from me with the deal I owe the player 8million more.

Over time I will slowly pay the 8mill, yet he/she might sell or buy stuff from others with will effect his PTR and cushion as well I might get in war and therefore send or recieve stuff to cover losses which as well will effect my PTR and cushion.

Now how do your so called Cushion handle that I owe 8million UU and we both maybe sell, buy, send or recieve stuff from others because of other things you see my idea was to make it so if i buy VIP from that player the 10mill UU it would cost me would not effect mine or his PTR even if i pay it slowly over time.

The cushion isn't per case its an over all, so even if that cushion was "ok" if you had paid the person they made more transactions

seaborgium wrote:The cushion isn't per case its an over all, so even if that cushion was "ok" if you had paid the person they made more transactions

And then we are back Admin just told me utter crap and I cant use his cushion to squard.

He didn't tell you anything....
He posted an idea.
He has also said that it just stays....

so if you have a cushion of 500 ATs
you ALWAYS have it.


besides
if I got you the VIP
and you gave me the 2m now, and then over time got em the 8m and i did no other trading I would be fine.
However if I kept trading then those OTHER trades would use up the cushion I had. So why does it matter if its YOUR trade or the my OTHER trades, in teh end I still affect my PTR.

Admin therules currently say you can ask for 2times the cash market.
Are we able to ask for that + what they get in the ss pack?

seaborgium wrote:He didn't tell you anything....
He posted an idea.
He has also said that it just stays....

so if you have a cushion of 500 ATs
you ALWAYS have it.


besides
if I got you the VIP
and you gave me the 2m now, and then over time got em the 8m and i did no other trading I would be fine.
However if I kept trading then those OTHER trades would use up the cushion I had. So why does it matter if its YOUR trade or the my OTHER trades, in teh end I still affect my PTR.

Esactly what I want was that if you bought me the VIP and in the pages where we do the deal we clearly state that I have to pay 10mill UU but I only give you 2mill.

Then i should be able to do trades with you where in the drop down box says repayment of VIP donation, everytime I send you UU doing that it count down towards 0 and has no suffer of PTR for you or me. This way you bought me VIP helped admin and the game at the same time you helped me and your self.

At no time should it be possible to give you more than the agreed amount and if I in 1 week have not payed you anything the game should take a % agreed on it self so you get your stuff.

Also maybe put in that a deal like this can only be made to same player 3 month AFTER the last deal was concluded and repayed. This way we can't keep doing it and there is a cushion to stop cheaters as far I am concerned.

So I have to take it that you are asking for Admin to put in place a feature where by a player can make an agreement with another player to receive one of the donation packages by trading in return for ingame resources and if the agreed resources are not paid within the agreed timeframe the the game should pay the missing balance to player who made the cash donation.

It all sounds very good and for most would probably be not an issue but it is something that is clearly open to abuse of what can only be called the worst type. I saw that you included some form of protection for the person who is putting up the real money but failed to say anything about ate other player.

I do see some merit to your suggestion but would suggest that in be done the other way around. Both players agree the payment (and possibly timeframe). Ingame resource payments are made but are stored by the Game. When the agreed amount has been reached The player making the Cash payment does so an as part of the process the resources are Transferred. This way no one is at risk. The player spending the real money receives the agreed resources, The other player gets the package agreed on and Admin gets the donation with the worry of any issues of players complaining of unfair trading etc.

I took it a bit different. I took it so if the debtor stopped or did not pay the game would "garnish" the debtors account in the forum of taking UU and Kewal from it. The only issue would be deletion of said account which could be blocked.

As for protection, the person making the donation needs protection, why does the person recieving the donation need any? what are they at risk of losing? The only issue I can think of is Extortion, and in the AW political climate that would not go over well.

Lastly, the suggestion at the end is all well and good but kinna defeats the entire pourpose of the idea doesn't it? Or did I misunderstand something? It looks like your suggesting "prepaying" for the SS pack?

My understanding of the issue is that most can not afford anything but the 2 cheapest SS packs at any 1 time. So they are looking for a way to recieve the perm or bigger SS packs and make payment over time to pay it off that do not skew the PTR of either account. So something very sililar to the officer commander trade system, and really similiar to what was asked for and denied as a suggestion for the alliance bank. That is to have the cost frozen. so you paid the agreed upon price, and not a PTR inflated price. Since this idea helps to support the game I hope it stands a better change then the alliance bank suggestion did.

Manleva wrote:So I have to take it that you are asking for Admin to put in place a feature where by a player can make an agreement with another player to receive one of the donation packages by trading in return for ingame resources and if the agreed resources are not paid within the agreed timeframe the the game should pay the missing balance to player who made the cash donation.

It all sounds very good and for most would probably be not an issue but it is something that is clearly open to abuse of what can only be called the worst type. I saw that you included some form of protection for the person who is putting up the real money but failed to say anything about ate other player.

I do see some merit to your suggestion but would suggest that in be done the other way around. Both players agree the payment (and possibly timeframe). Ingame resource payments are made but are stored by the Game. When the agreed amount has been reached The player making the Cash payment does so an as part of the process the resources are Transferred. This way no one is at risk. The player spending the real money receives the agreed resources, The other player gets the package agreed on and Admin gets the donation with the worry of any issues of players complaining of unfair trading etc.

LOL no offense BUT FAIL why should the player who gets the donation have any protection? He gets everything the donation gives the only one who has anything out and can end up getting screwed is the one paying with the real money and thats the player I wanna protect.

As Nomad writes who is spot on:

Nomad wrote:I took it a bit different. I took it so if the debtor stopped or did not pay the game would "garnish" the debtors account in the forum of taking UU and Kewal from it. The only issue would be deletion of said account which could be blocked.

As for protection, the person making the donation needs protection, why does the person recieving the donation need any? what are they at risk of losing? The only issue I can think of is Extortion, and in the AW political climate that would not go over well.

Lastly, the suggestion at the end is all well and good but kinna defeats the entire pourpose of the idea doesn't it? Or did I misunderstand something? It looks like your suggesting "prepaying" for the SS pack?

My understanding of the issue is that most can not afford anything but the 2 cheapest SS packs at any 1 time. So they are looking for a way to recieve the perm or bigger SS packs and make payment over time to pay it off that do not skew the PTR of either account. So something very sililar to the officer commander trade system, and really similiar to what was asked for and denied as a suggestion for the alliance bank. That is to have the cost frozen. so you paid the agreed upon price, and not a PTR inflated price. Since this idea helps to support the game I hope it stands a better change then the alliance bank suggestion did.

Exactly if the player who got the donation forget to pay or will not then the game it self takes from the players account the amount owed and missing payed to the other player at that point.

And as you said its a work in progress because I need to figure out how I can protect the one donating money so he/she gets whats agreed on from the one getting it but at the same time also stop cheating and abuse from both sides the one receiving and the one paying.

My guess is in case of this type of donation and payment there should be a limit of how much the one paying can demand of the player as well as a limit on how little they can agree on.

First scenario like this won't happen: Player A wanna help Player B his good friend. They agree on Player A buy VIP donation for Player B, Player B in return has to pay 1mill UU.

We All know thats way off target. Not sure yet what the minimum should be but there should be one because else it opens up for tons of people who wanna help their friends do stunts like this.

Second scenario which should not happen: Player A sees this new thing out and finds a noob Player B and make a deal where he pay 5$ for the Starter Donate Package and Player B agrees to pay in return 6 mill UU over time, what Player B do not know thats a unfair amount and he is being used by Player A.

We all as well know this is way of target in this case there should be a maximum which is fair but also makes sure the one paying gets what he/she should have at a max for what they pay.

With that in place and in place a way to make sure the player paying gets their funds then we should be all ok.

If a player owes funds to someone who has bought them a package then there should maybe be in check a procedure that do the following:

Player B owes 2 mill left to Player A but decides to quite and therefore delete the account, the account is removed ingame so no one can see it, what people can't see is that the account sits and generate UU and Kuwal and all things on the account that can be sold off for resources are done so and then it slowly pays what is owed to Player A. This way Player B has no chance of cheating Player A.

If Player B tries to sell off or do anything that looks like it the Player is stopped as those funds belongs to Player A. If Player B tries to sell on GM to much so Player B has no chance of paying Player A that week as agreed on the amount being sold will be minus whats owed to Player A. Meaning Player B can only sell the surplus of whats gained.

IT can be done and if anyone has a better idea on how to Protect Player A so they get what they should get when the deal is made please post.

The only Protection Player B should have in this deal is that Player A can't DEMAND outrages prices which is way to much for what its gotten. Weather we set it to a maximum of twice the PTR worth and minimum ½ the PTR worth is something to talk about. But there should be a limit for both users sake.

Just make it so they can asking price can't be less then half what is gotten or double what is gotten by the SS pack.
In the case of the $5 and $10 where there is no value then set it to be half up to double the cash market at the time.

Min should be 15m/100$ and max should be 40m/100$

That's a fair deal IMO

so i could buy SA47s uu for $200 . I think his acc is worth far more than that. And dont say anything stupid like its just the uu or something to that effect.

no KoS we are talking about SS packs.
Steveannya that doesn't help friends helping friends.

Wait what?

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:so i could buy SA47s uu for $200 . I think his acc is worth far more than that. And dont say anything stupid like its just the uu or something to that effect.

VIP Donator Package Gives:
PERMANENT Player to Player trading ability (and consequent full Trade Broker AND Private Market function)
48 Hour temporary protection from all attacks on your realm (You cannot attack anyone in this time either)
15,000 Turns
2,190,000 Units
655,622,325,000 Kuwal
15 Market Reserves
Unlimited Name Changes
2 Personal Bonus Changes (You cannot change your personal bonus more than once every 2 months)
150% Bank Increase (150% increase in natural bank size)

Use the turns to raid for 3k a hit and you get 4.5m UU +2m

Use the kuwal to buy UU and get 2more mil.

So 9.5m+ 45MR's worth + 2 PB changes + unlimited name changes(+color)

So really you'd only be paying 25-30m UU's worth for 100$ you're getting donated to the game.-that's the MAX amount I suggested.

So yeah these rates are fairly reasonable

would kill BM tho, no one would buy BM goods, they would just buy SS packs for each other.

Not to mention those prices would drive the P2P prices down even further.

I would say leave it just like it is. Anything over 2 times as much effects PTR.

Steveanaya wrote:

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:so i could buy SA47s uu for $200 . I think his acc is worth far more than that. And dont say anything stupid like its just the uu or something to that effect.

VIP Donator Package Gives:
PERMANENT Player to Player trading ability (and consequent full Trade Broker AND Private Market function)
48 Hour temporary protection from all attacks on your realm (You cannot attack anyone in this time either)
15,000 Turns
2,190,000 Units
655,622,325,000 Kuwal
15 Market Reserves
Unlimited Name Changes
2 Personal Bonus Changes (You cannot change your personal bonus more than once every 2 months)
150% Bank Increase (150% increase in natural bank size)

Use the turns to raid for 3k a hit and you get 4.5m UU +2m

Use the kuwal to buy UU and get 2more mil.

So 9.5m+ 45MR's worth + 2 PB changes + unlimited name changes(+color)

So really you'd only be paying 25-30m UU's worth for 100$ you're getting donated to the game.-that's the MAX amount I suggested.

So yeah these rates are fairly reasonable

You can't realy use what you "Can" get with the resources bc I can make it so I get 60-70m UU as I can find big raids and cheap UU.

Thats why everything is already based of the BM.
Which is tired directly to the TC.

BUMP anything new on this Admin?

work in progress?

I already said this will get added to consider if you dont receive your resources straight away with the broker-for-resources feature

plus i'll also have to have it consider past donations to others