Re: Finale

by jdsiii Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:39 am

Personally I find it rather shameful that the end was delayed just long enough for Keinutnai to go from outside the top 30 to just inside the top 30.

Funny how that works. What a crock o' crap.

by Kenzu Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:56 am

Nomad wrote:
decker wrote:
J1nx wrote:rank 1 with no officers or alliance... just saying
im LoneDeranger btw
like my name suggests, my goal was to show that alliances are pointless in a reset round when alliance rank nor membership holds no influence over the game

One last thought... it does seem to matter who your friends are... look at the top 10 folks (right now, not sure about the real end of the round) and you'll see that seven of the ten are essentially folks that were in alliances that were allied with one another (WR, VIS, Fedaykin, VoD). Go figure.

Anyway, its been fun.

/bye

-d

anyone playin best get use to it. It WR's own private server. Its so, so sad that an admin has to not only play his own game, but lead an alliance, and a multi alliance empire on his own game.

Everyone can play the way they want. I don't criticize your style of playing, you shouldn't criticize mine. No one has forbidden you to bring players to the game and make an alliance of your own.

And my point has been proven now. This entire game is geared to stat builders. The awards to the final ranks prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt. Its not about actually playing the round, its about stay low, or in an empire comprised of half the server lead by the admin, and getting a worthless rank. Rank means nothing

With this kind of point of you you can consider practically every browser game a stat builders game. In most games rank is calculated by your military actions. If you lose them, you lose your rank. It's obvious that players who are looking for trouble will get massed and if they do there is no reason why they should have a better rank than those who didnt get massed. In fact RA is much better than other games because it not only considers military actions but also economic ones that prevent you to the last ranks even if you got completely massed. Additionally you get rewarded because war experience counts towards your rank. Instead of saying how this game supports stat builders, you could have for example suggested that war experience rank will count much more towards global rank than other stats.

You can be rank 1 for 89 out of 90 days of the game and get nothing, or be rank 30 till the last round and end up rank 1.

I would like to see how someone who is rank 30 for most of the time will ever reach rank 1. Impossible. What are the people with better rank doing in the meanwhile? Sleeping?

I know the only reason I will ever continue to play this game is just to smash Kenzu at the end of every round.

this game is pathetic, as is its adminships actions concerning it. I tried to give this game a chance, but its not even worth that. I'm am saddened we lost evolutions to this POS game.

by Nomad Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:32 am

@ Kenzu,,,
Seems to me top players got reduced to well outside the top 30 ranks

@ jdsiii,,,,
You noticed that as well huh? Wonder what his rank would have been without the extention.

As for our "different" playstyles Kenzu,,,,,,,,,, Well I don't change the game to fit mine do I? Wink

Fair warning to any future players, you know what you will get.

by decker Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:29 am

What really pisses me off is that in a game called Aderan Wars I had, on my own, more war experience then the other alliances and yet where do I finish the 'extended round'? Some where down in the 50's if I recall.

What a total bullshit way to end this round. Zen and I worked our asses off and played this round brilliantly and we're more active then 90% of the players... what do we get in the end? Shafted. Apparently it means jackcrapnothing to put a lot of effort into this game and do something besides sit around amazing farmers and a huge ass defensive only army.

Not sure about Zen (and a few others I've talked with) but I'm certainly over and down with this game.

I know this is a game you've designed and it's a personal joy for you Kenzu but never the less I'll sure as heck be shouting from the mountain tops my opinion of this total crapfest.

-escent

by Manleva Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:13 am

Kenzu wrote:
Manleva wrote:
Kenzu wrote:1st round of Aderan Wars - Red Apocalypse ends
on the 7th February 2011 at 14:00 gametime (22:00 GMT, 23:00 Central European Time).

(The end time has been delayed from 00:00 gametime due to the effects of Aderan Wars shifting to a new server. I apologise for the inconvenience)

Work on your stats to build your rank in the last couple of hours. The Hall of Fame will record not only the best in many categories (Total Power, War Exp, Populations, .... % of Farmers, % of Miners, .... Kuwal Stolen), but also best alliances in many categories as well as global ranks for players and alliances.

Everything gets saved so that everyone will be able to track his or her achievements and compare it to new rounds achievements in the future.

Well,well, aren't we lucky. Now please answer this question. Why was this message posted so far after the notified end of the round?

Kenzu, you have posted this at 11:47 am, Steveanaya started this thread at 8:14 am which was just after the round ended. Why was there a 3 1/2 hour delay. If the round was to be extended then the only time to advise the extension was before the round was supposed to finish.

I defiantly am not happy with this and have dropped 2 ranks so far. and it does not look good when I see you have so far risen 15 ranks.
There is no excuse for the delay in posting this Kenzu as you were in the Forums at the time that this thread was created.

J1nx, Congrats on the Rank 1

Here is why:
I became aware that the game works only after I have woken up, shortly before I left the house. I was in a hurry and had no time to look at the forum, (strange then that you were listed as active on the Forum at the time that Steveanaya started this thread) I only logged in to bank and left the house at roughly 10:00 am (that's 1 am forum time). When I came back home is when I looked at the forum and that's when I have declared that the round ends later.

So you ask why I didnt announce it earlier? Because at no earlier moment it was possible for me to announce it. This is not an issue although the forum was available as it is hosted seperatly to the game.
If the game was running smooth and there was no need for shifting servers, then we would have ended the round on time at 00:00.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rankings Removed to save space
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I understand it is extremely bad that the game hasn't ended at 00:00. This all has been worsened by the fact that there was no plan made for the scenario what to do if the game will encouter a serious problem such as this. It was a serious technical difficulty unseen in the history of Aderan Wars, which happened at the most inconvenient time.

I think this trouble can be prevented in the future if an end date for a round will be adjusted to a day, which is a weekend and the reset time will not be at 00:00, but at a time which is more convenient for both admins at roughly 10:00 gametime. At the same time we should regard it as a rule for the future that if the server is not accessible for some reason and it is soon before the round ends, then the time when it ends will be extended.

The bonuses can be theoretically still paid out according to the rankings that stevenaya has made, however the database has not been saved at that time and the hall of fame cannot be produced without the data.

While I can see some semblance of reasoning I will point out that the game being down affected all players not just some. Following your supposed reasoning I should complain because your extension has treated me unfairly. I went to bed not long after the expected end of the round and was surprised when I checked the forum that there was an extension. What annoys me even more is that I had no opportunity to take any further action because I had to go to work and the extension allowed me no opportunity to play any more. Surely any fair extension would have been done in multiples of 24 hours so that all players were treated equally.

You have also stated that the bonuses could be paid out on Stevenaya's rank listing - This needs to be confirmed. I dont think that anyone will have issues on the Hall of Fame.

Kenzu wrote:
Nomad wrote:
decker wrote:
J1nx wrote:rank 1 with no officers or alliance... just saying
im LoneDeranger btw
like my name suggests, my goal was to show that alliances are pointless in a reset round when alliance rank nor membership holds no influence over the game

One last thought... it does seem to matter who your friends are... look at the top 10 folks (right now, not sure about the real end of the round) and you'll see that seven of the ten are essentially folks that were in alliances that were allied with one another (WR, VIS, Fedaykin, VoD). Go figure.

Anyway, its been fun.

/bye

-d

anyone playin best get use to it. It WR's own private server. Its so, so sad that an admin has to not only play his own game, but lead an alliance, and a multi alliance empire on his own game.

Everyone can play the way they want. I don't criticize your style of playing, you shouldn't criticize mine. No one has forbidden you to bring players to the game and make an alliance of your own.

Your answer here would be valid if you were only a normal player, however you are not a normal player but you are the game Admin and as you are also the leader of not only a single alliance standing by it's self but which is associated with other alliances you leave yourself open to being accused of being impartial and are in a position of being able to pass information to specific players that is not known to others. You need to decide if you want to be the Admin or a player because I don't think the realistically you can be both

And my point has been proven now. This entire game is geared to stat builders. The awards to the final ranks prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt. Its not about actually playing the round, its about stay low, or in an empire comprised of half the server lead by the admin, and getting a worthless rank. Rank means nothing

With this kind of point of you you can consider practically every browser game a stat builders game. In most games rank is calculated by your military actions. If you lose them, you lose your rank. It's obvious that players who are looking for trouble will get massed and if they do there is no reason why they should have a better rank than those who didnt get massed. In fact RA is much better than other games because it not only considers military actions but also economic ones that prevent you to the last ranks even if you got completely massed. Additionally you get rewarded because war experience counts towards your rank. Instead of saying how this game supports stat builders, you could have for example suggested that war experience rank will count much more towards global rank than other stats.

You can be rank 1 for 89 out of 90 days of the game and get nothing, or be rank 30 till the last round and end up rank 1.

I would like to see how someone who is rank 30 for most of the time will ever reach rank 1. Impossible. What are the people with better rank doing in the meanwhile? Sleeping?

Interesting comment - You however managed to climb 15 ranks in a matter of hours. Maybe the impossible is possible given a few more hours.

I know the only reason I will ever continue to play this game is just to smash Kenzu at the end of every round.

this game is pathetic, as is its adminships actions concerning it. I tried to give this game a chance, but its not even worth that. I'm am saddened we lost evolutions to this POS game.

Nomad wrote:@ Kenzu,,,
Seems to me top players got reduced to well outside the top 30 ranks

@ jdsiii,,,,
You noticed that as well huh? Wonder what his rank would have been without the extention.

Kenzu's rank at 00:00 was 40. According to his final ranking he finished at 25.
Draw your own conclusions but that is a jump of 15 places.

As for our "different" playstyles Kenzu,,,,,,,,,, Well I don't change the game to fit mine do I?

Fair warning to any future players, you know what you will get.

One thing that i have found interesting is that it has been stated time and time again that this game is designed so that players only need to spend a minimal amount of time to play it, 5 - 15 minutes per day, and yet time and time again Kenzu has offered advice that is contradictory to this advising multiple logins per day or has made suggestions on features that are not even in the game such as retraining when their is no untraining options.

Given the changes that have been made in this round (without any discussion before implementation) one has to wonder as to their intent - in many way they appear to have been made to be of benefit to a specific group of players. One has to wonder why they were needed to be implemented given Kenzu's stated intent to keep this as a reset game until all the features he wants have been included so all could have waited until the next round began and a level playing field would have been maintained.

@ Kenzu, Please do not respond privately - If you wish to respond then do so publicly, I am not interested in any PM's on this matter.

by Admin Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:07 am

For the record which people dont know yet which also didn't come across properly yet, the hall of fame has the stats of everyone who played, you'll be able to order all the stats one by one to see who was top in each. Just because you were rank 35 but had a top 3 war exp doesn't mean you won't be included in the hall of fame

by Kenzu Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:33 pm

Nomad wrote:@ Kenzu,,,
Seems to me top players got reduced to well outside the top 30 ranks

@ jdsiii,,,,
You noticed that as well huh? Wonder what his rank would have been without the extention.

As for our "different" playstyles Kenzu,,,,,,,,,, Well I don't change the game to fit mine do I?

Fair warning to any future players, you know what you will get.

The round has only started.
Besides, there are no bonuses for main server paid out for the 2nd round, which means that all the people who played only for the bonuses and didn't care about the game won't play anyway.

Why don't you get that the round extension has nothing to do with my rank? You think I care about global rank that much? I got the highest UP, one of the top population and 2nd highest war experience. My name will be in the hall of fame at least 3 times.

You clinch to the global ranks like there was nothing else.

Anyone who played properly will be in the hall of fame.
Zen and Escent will be there because they killed a lot of units and also because they have extremely high war experience. Their alliance has highest or 2nd highest war experience.
People who got good economies will be there too, just like those who have good militaries or other achievements.

Is the reason why you cling to the global rank so much only because ingame bonuses paid out on main are only based on global rank?
If you were not ok with it, then you could have suggested that bonuses will get calculated not on ingame rank but for example on global power, population, income, UP, war experience and units killed.
Then people who fight massive wars can also get bonuses.

But you didn't do that. Neither one of you has done that. You should have thought about it earlier, and not now when the round was ending. It's too late now.

I will think of ways how fighting players can have a better global rank. Considering units killed and weapons destroyed in global rank could be one of the steps to do it. Additional think that comes to my mind is for example ignoring the worst half of a players stats, so that if someone has say 0 defense action but high other stats he wont be ranked below some inactive players.

decker wrote:What really pisses me off is that in a game called Aderan Wars I had, on my own, more war experience then the other alliances and yet where do I finish the 'extended round'? Some where down in the 50's if I recall.

What a total bullshit way to end this round. Zen and I worked our asses off and played this round brilliantly and we're more active then 90% of the players... what do we get in the end? Shafted. Apparently it means jackcrapnothing to put a lot of effort into this game and do something besides sit around amazing farmers and a huge ass defensive only army.

Not sure about Zen (and a few others I've talked with) but I'm certainly over and down with this game.

I know this is a game you've designed and it's a personal joy for you Kenzu but never the less I'll sure as heck be shouting from the mountain tops my opinion of this total crapfest.

-escent

If you mass others you can expect to get massed. And why did you not think about the possibility that if you mass someone, 1 minute before round ends he or his friends will mass you and you end up with a crappy rank?

If I for example want to fight wars and still have a good rank at the end, I would suggest a change to how the global rank is calculated. You knew how the system works, didnt plan on changing it and yet you are shocked how you end up with. You think if the round ended on time you would have a better rank? Of course not, you would simply be massed 1 minute before the round ends and your plan would fail.

Manleva's text in blue
While I can see some semblance of reasoning I will point out that the game being down affected all players not just some. Following your supposed reasoning I should complain because your extension has treated me unfairly. I went to bed not long after the expected end of the round and was surprised when I checked the forum that there was an extension. What annoys me even more is that I had no opportunity to take any further action because I had to go to work and the extension allowed me no opportunity to play any more. Surely any fair extension would have been done in multiples of 24 hours so that all players were treated equally.

You have also stated that the bonuses could be paid out on Stevenaya's rank listing - This needs to be confirmed. I dont think that anyone will have issues on the Hall of Fame.

Ingame bonuses and Yala crystals will be paid out according to the ranks that stevenaya posted.
However Hall of Fame will be according to the stats at the extended time, because there was no backup made at 00:00. The backup has been made earliest possible, which was at 14:00 gametime, short after me and admin met. I wanted to make the extension as short as possible so that when the backup is made ranks will not change much, while at the same time I wanted that people have the chance to log in after the downtime of the server. Half a day seemed like the best solution.

Your answer here would be valid if you were only a normal player, however you are not a normal player but you are the game Admin and as you are also the leader of not only a single alliance standing by it's self but which is associated with other alliances you leave yourself open to being accused of being impartial and are in a position of being able to pass information to specific players that is not known to others. You need to decide if you want to be the Admin or a player because I don't think the realistically you can be both

I understand what you mean, but please consider this. It is common for players to criticise admins and calling them biased. Be it because they think that admin making updates to help their enemies, be it due to their knowledge that admin knows a player better (if a game admin was in the same alliance as some other player, others will accuse him that he gives the player special treatment), or if game admin is someone's brother. Now haven't we heard about such accusations? Me and my brother both care much more about the success of Aderan Wars than success as players. If we wanted to influence the game for our benefit, then we could simply give ourselves a resource boost and there wouldn't be any suspicion.

And now look at this: If an admin plays a game as a player, being accused of rigging the game for personal benefit is a guarantee! I knew what I was going into, and I knew this would happen. Nomad accuses me of that all the time, even before round 1 started. So what possibilities did I have? Not playing the game was not a possibility because playing is important to find bugs and also because I like the game. I could play with a different ID and a different name, not showing who I am, or I could play the way I want, being myself, which would of course draw criticism. I opted for option 2. Playing freely, the way I want is for me much more important than not being criticized.

You can critisize me all you want, and call be biased, but your opinions about me will not influence how I play the game. If some people are unhappy that I have a big alliance, instead of whining they should do something about it. Our alliance was weak in main server when the game started, but I was recruiting and our alliance rose up to a top alliance. Mobilise more people and your alliance will be more powerful too. No matter how many players a game has, even if there are 100.000s of active players, it will all end up with most players in 2 or 3 powerhouses that rule the game anyway, but if you don't work hard to influence the game, then you should not be sad about the outcome.

Interesting comment - You however managed to climb 15 ranks in a matter of hours. Maybe the impossible is possible given a few more hours.

And now let's talk about my rank. In the last 24 hours I moved from rank 4 to rank 500 (at this point it was gametime 00:00), then to rank 9 then after some massing to rank 50 and then to rank 27.
Now this is no magic. I jumped from rank 500 to rank 9 because most of my stats were untouched. I had rank 1 UP, rank 1 covert, high population, global power, income, war exp, attack rank. It was a rank of 5500 in assassin action that led to my poor rank of 500. All I had to do is train 1.000 assassins and I was in top 30 again. But I trained more, thus having a rank of 9. When all ranks except one are top 10, it's easy to climb ranks fast. There was no magic involved.

by decker Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:20 pm

Actually, Kenzu my rank was much much better when the round ended when it was supposed to have ended and yours was much worse because I know that you got massed by 3 or 4 people.

So, yeah, your extension of the round made a huge freaking difference in the way it played out.

Like I've said, its your game, man, and you can run it and change it and do whatever you want with it but each and everyone of us that is pissed off about the way the round went is justified in our annoyance and the fact that you drastically improved your rank between the 'real ending' and the 'supposed-to-have-been-ending' is like a big ole' one finger wave.

-d

by Nomad Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:35 am

I don't accuse you of anything, I just point things out that are recordable facts.

I know you give tips to your own alliance before sharing them publicly. I was in your alliance.

To me the truely sad part about all of this is you can not even see past your own ego enough to realize how damaging to the game it is to have 60+% of the active game base in the same alliance or empire. You don't have the fortitude to simple stop recruiting and stand on your own. Its like you will not be happy until all the AW2 game flies 1 banner and you sit atop rank 1 for round after round.

Boring if you ask me, but as you have proven time and time again, its your game, and you will change it to suit your playstyle and needs no matter the cost or effect to the game itself.

by Kenzu Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:26 pm

Nomad wrote:I don't accuse you of anything, I just point things out that are recordable facts.

I know you give tips to your own alliance before sharing them publicly. I was in your alliance.

To me the truely sad part about all of this is you can not even see past your own ego enough to realize how damaging to the game it is to have 60+% of the active game base in the same alliance or empire. You don't have the fortitude to simple stop recruiting and stand on your own. Its like you will not be happy until all the AW2 game flies 1 banner and you sit atop rank 1 for round after round.

Boring if you ask me, but as you have proven time and time again, its your game, and you will change it to suit your playstyle and needs no matter the cost or effect to the game itself.

I invited everyone I could to increase the playerbase. It's not my problem that many active players are WR members on main. There were obviously friendly relations, but there was no empire.

If I remember right alliances were like this:
WR 10 members
Nightstalkers 10 members
VIS 6 members
Victory or death 6 members
Fedaykin 5 members
Ueefg 2 members
Black Armada 1 member
and 2 actives without an alliance.

That's 40 players, and a fraction of them were inactive. There were roughly 30 active at round end. I expect that 60% of all actives are WR members on main. And to prevent that all WR members will be in one alliance I set a limit of 10 players per alliance. But as it has been stated earlier, artificial limits help only partially. They don't really solve the problem. There are only 2 ways to solve this problem: Either more non-WR players playing, or less WR players playing. Less players is not an acceptable solution for me. So if you want to be part of the solution, you could bring more players and make the game more diverse. The game is at its beginning and that's why its important to work on it to see what it will become.

decker wrote:Actually, Kenzu my rank was much much better when the round ended when it was supposed to have ended and yours was much worse because I know that you got massed by 3 or 4 people.

So, yeah, your extension of the round made a huge freaking difference in the way it played out.

Like I've said, its your game, man, and you can run it and change it and do whatever you want with it but each and everyone of us that is pissed off about the way the round went is justified in our annoyance and the fact that you drastically improved your rank between the 'real ending' and the 'supposed-to-have-been-ending' is like a big ole' one finger wave.

-d

You care about the global rank too much.

by Admin Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:51 pm

Kenzu wrote:You care about the global rank too much.

Considering there's ingame resources at stake. It makes perfect sense.

by Nomad Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:24 am

He doesn't understand the controdiction he creates within the game, within his words, and within himself Admin.

@ Kenzu,,,,,,,,,

Why don't you just tell everyone to create their own alliances, and not band them together? I mean when more then 1 WR alliance was attacking people for hitting 1 alliance, well that just BS and proves my point. You can not and will not stand on your own. WR never has, and never will as long as you have a hand in it.

You think anyone will play a game when if you hit 1 person in 1 alliance that your get multiple people from multiple alliances attacking you in return?

And again, you can not even see the harm in it, thats whats so frustrating.

by Kenzu Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:57 am

Admin wrote:
Kenzu wrote:You care about the global rank too much.
Considering there's ingame resources at stake. It makes perfect sense.

That's why I said that anyone could have suggested a change on how they will be distributed. But no one cared until it was too late.

Nomad wrote:He doesn't understand the controdiction he creates within the game, within his words, and within himself Admin.

@ Kenzu,,,,,,,,,

Why don't you just tell everyone to create their own alliances, and not band them together? I mean when more then 1 WR alliance was attacking people for hitting 1 alliance, well that just BS and proves my point. You can not and will not stand on your own. WR never has, and never will as long as you have a hand in it.

You think anyone will play a game when if you hit 1 person in 1 alliance that your get multiple people from multiple alliances attacking you in return?

And again, you can not even see the harm in it, thats whats so frustrating.

Yeah, I told everyone already. I sent an alliance wide message asking people to play RA and to create their own alliances. Let's see how this round goes. The alliance I create this round won't be World Republic though. In the 2nd round I am planning to try out new things as a player.

But what do you mean by: "You can not and will not stand on your own. WR never has, and never will as long as you have a hand in it."
Please explain in detail what you mean by that.

by Nomad Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:43 pm

The WR alliance, and you as its leader has never stood alone. You always hide in a crowd, you always try to use strength in numbers, and as last round proved, even with a 10 person alliance limit, you had multiple alliances created that were 1 empire. Then when 1 alliance or one person is challenged you fight back with multiple alliances and multiple people.

I hope you do well this round, and follow a different path then you normally travel.

by Kenzu Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:12 pm

Nomad wrote:The WR alliance, and you as its leader has never stood alone. You always hide in a crowd, you always try to use strength in numbers, and as last round proved, even with a 10 person alliance limit, you had multiple alliances created that were 1 empire. Then when 1 alliance or one person is challenged you fight back with multiple alliances and multiple people.

I hope you do well this round, and follow a different path then you normally travel.

Yes I will, but it has nothing to do with this discussion.
Your assumptions are wrong, because there was no empire. When we have been targeted, we fought back. It was mostly me and Thulkthayer from World Republic. Stevenaya from Fedaykin has been attacked too and he fought back, Sara from VIS also has been attacked and she fought back too. If 2 players start wars with 3 alliances it is obvious these 3 alliances will strike back. Besides, in total it was like 4-5 people against 3 from WR, 1 from VIS and maybe 2 from Fedaykin as far as I know. So the fight was actually quite even with 4-5 vs 6

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