avalible funds

Kenzu wrote:In that case you didn't even have to write a post, if you didnt want to say anything.

Maybe he wants to say alot, but like many of us we can't or don't speak "kenzu" so talking to you is just frustrating to the point of no longer being worth our time.



I personally think I have finally got it all figured out.

AW2 is designed for a completely different group of players then what main is geared to, and that is why we have such a difficult time with it. You, Kenzu, see things much differently then many of "us" who play here. I am not saying we are a majority, nor am I saying that your way of thinking is wrong, I'm just saying I think 90% of all the conflict is due to a conflict of interest.

Let me show you another point of veiw about the things you just said. Now I'm not saying you are wrong, nor that I am right, I am saying these things in an attempt to show the difference in the train of thought between us.

Just because you need to log in only once a day doesn't mean it won't be exciting. Wars will become much easier to understand.

This is two seperate subjects so I'll split them
1. "Just because you need to log in only once a day doesn't mean it won't be exciting. Wars will become much easier to understand." Now I agree there is a % of players whom this holds true for. Those who honestly only have 5 or 10 minutes a day may very well feel this way, but the other side of that is, IF that's all it takes, then a far higher % of players will get bored and go to something with mose satisfaction and that consumes more time with greater gains for time invested.

2."Wars will become much easier to understand." Once again, very true. not even having to care about losses or even try to build your account will make wars easier,
BUT on the other hand, players who actually invest time and effort into a game will not call it making war easier to understand, they will call it dumbing it down to the point of insulting a persons intellegence. That is what many hardcore/old school player would say your doing.

Before you had to spy someone and then figure out how many assassins you have to send to succeed, and if you failed, you lost 75% of all assassins. Not many will want to risk a war with someone if they aren't 100% sure what they are doing.

Here again, you make a great point, but to the other veiw of things, Having to spy and Having to figure things out IS what makes it fun. Your removing what a large portion of the playerbase veiws and the Fun or Challenging aspects of the game.

But on RA, all you need to make a deadly assassin mission is to click the send assassins button. And even with weak technology, you don't run the risk that you won't be able to harm the enemy at all and kill yoursef by losing most of your assassins.

So once again, yes you are correct, but you have to realise the other end of the scope that you are not giving any recognition too. That a brand new account can go all pissy on an old account and do signifigant and lasting damage that you can not stop no matter how well you play, or haw carefully you build your account. In other words, you have made the playing field so "level" that there is precticly no reason or advantage to make it worth while to actually play/grow/strive/have goals/ or anything of that nature. Just bank 1 time a day and when you have a bad day go whale on somebody because they can't stop you, and it will cost them far more then you lose to fight back.

Also, if someone will think they have too much free time, they will always have the opportunity to play main, or evolutions server, which has more action.

This is a great point here, and goes to show that what I am saying is true. AW2 is for a different style of player, for a different group of people. And There Is NOTHING Wrong with that. I personally do not feel many player will play main and AW2 because of the massive differences in the game mechanics and play styles, and TBH thats prolly a good thing.

Also, I believe, that no matter how great features a game has, if 2 games are interesting, it's more likely that someone quits a game because he can't spend 1 hour on it game each day, and doesnt want to be a weak player either, and much less likely that someone who plays only 10 minutes a day to quit a game when it's interesting.

Here I have to agree with the logic you express, I totally agree with it. I just disagree with your definition of interesting because to me personally, there is NO game that I could ever class as interesting if it took only 10 minutes a day to master, because to be interesting it must have a challenge, and if 10 minutes is all it takes to overcome the challenge then there is nothing interesting about it. Something that takes 10 minutes to basicly best/conquer/defeat/ is boring, but that is to me personally, so to others your point may ring true.

A game gets boring only if you achieved everything and there is no challenge for you, or the game isn't interesting. There is no risk for that to happen to any of Aderan Wars games.

Again, logic is sound, but all wrong in the same breath. I agree with "A game gets boring only if you achieved everything and there is no challenge for you, or the game isn't interesting" but i have gotten bored with game that i did not achieve many things on, simple because they were to easy to do, or they were so "simple" or easy, or what ever,,,, if i could create a plan, and carry that plan out to perfection, and never miss a goal, or fail to reach a goal in a time frame,,, and I still got bored and quit because there was no spark, no suprises, no nothing. Reminds me of Midevilan. I played the game for 6 to 8 months, went from rank 800ish to rank 69, was as big as any other on the game, as well built, and as knowledgeable, and I was never once attacked, never onced failed a goal, never once didnt reach the timeline I set for myself, and the game sucked ass so i dont play it anymore.


If there is no spontinaety, if there is no suprises, and if there is no human interaction then the game will not be nearly as successful as it could be, in my personal opinion.


In a nut shell, Kenzu is trying to create a game that many of us Main AW players will never like,,,, and thats OK. It is, it really is. If players like his game then he has done his job as an admin. Just because we dont like it doesnt mean others wont. So go make your game Kenzu, just try to understand that your game is basicly aimed at a different audiance then you have here, and I think thats mainly why you get so much negative feedback.


That said, keep in mind you need better communication skills and thats not an insult, its an honest opinion. By making your game so easy to understand your going to cater to peoples lazy sides as well and you will have to spoon feed people alot of stuff, and waiting till after the fact is always a bad idea. Improve on relaying your aim and desire for the game to your playerbase and I think you may go far.


idk, kinna long and all over the place but there it is.

Kenzu wrote:In that case you didn't even have to write a post, if you didnt want to say anything.

I said exactly what I meant to say... you are wrong... AW has become a very boring game ATM anyway, & for various reasons...

**Edit**

Spoiler:

Thank you nomad, you've come closer to an explaination than I ever could,,, I just hope that Kenzu can hear & understand you...

Thanks Nomad, I think that you have expressed very well many of my own thoughts.

There are some great concepts in RA but I think that in terms of the overall mechanics it fails to deliver what most players of these types of games are looking for.

It may attract some players but I doubt that there is much to keep them.

I personally think I have finally got it all figured out.

AW2 is designed for a completely different group of players then what main is geared to, and that is why we have such a difficult time with it. You, Kenzu, see things much differently then many of "us" who play here. I am not saying we are a majority, nor am I saying that your way of thinking is wrong, I'm just saying I think 90% of all the conflict is due to a conflict of interest.

You are right
Some good points you make in the post.

And you are right, Red Apocalypse has not been constructed for the average Aderan Wars player. Because the average Aderan Wars player is an experienced one, who played a couple browser games before. One could say that Red Apocalypse targets a different niche market. It's main playerbase will NOT be Aderan Wars players, but players who at this moment have never heard of the game before. New people.

Just because you need to log in only once a day doesn't mean it won't be exciting. Wars will become much easier to understand.

This is two seperate subjects so I'll split them
1. "Just because you need to log in only once a day doesn't mean it won't be exciting. Wars will become much easier to understand." Now I agree there is a % of players whom this holds true for. Those who honestly only have 5 or 10 minutes a day may very well feel this way, but the other side of that is, IF that's all it takes, then a far higher % of players will get bored and go to something with mose satisfaction and that consumes more time with greater gains for time invested.

Well if they want to spend much more time, they will have alternatives, namely main server and evolutions.
At the same time, people who don't want to spend too much time, have the opportunity to play, which they wouldn't have without RA.

But to be honest RA basically saves you time which you would spend on farming, ony spying, and on calculating how many spies and assassins to send.
All other features remain the same. Obviously a player leading an alliance or a player with a high alliance position will need much more time to play the game.

2."Wars will become much easier to understand." Once again, very true. not even having to care about losses or even try to build your account will make wars easier,
BUT on the other hand, players who actually invest time and effort into a game will not call it making war easier to understand, they will call it dumbing it down to the point of insulting a persons intellegence. That is what many hardcore/old school player would say your doing.

You have to care about the losses, but instead of wasting time on making calculations to predict losses, you can predict them quite accurately (most missions will leave 10% of your army dead, killing enemy troops).
Just because you see how much damage your attackers and enemy defenders do, doesn't mean that . Why making calculations, if the server can make them for you?
You also don't use your head to calculate 456*789. You use a calculator to do the job for you.

Of course there will be a lot of other things which you need to figure out yourself to become most efficient.

Before you had to spy someone and then figure out how many assassins you have to send to succeed, and if you failed, you lost 75% of all assassins. Not many will want to risk a war with someone if they aren't 100% sure what they are doing.

Here again, you make a great point, but to the other veiw of things, Having to spy and Having to figure things out IS what makes it fun. Your removing what a large portion of the playerbase veiws and the Fun or Challenging aspects of the game.

You are right, it is a lot of fun, but it is also very tedious work, if you have to do it for many people, and at the same time dangerous, because stakes are high. Then I guess the best advice to give a new player is to start both games and later decide which one he likes more.

But on RA, all you need to make a deadly assassin mission is to click the send assassins button. And even with weak technology, you don't run the risk that you won't be able to harm the enemy at all and kill yoursef by losing most of your assassins.

So once again, yes you are correct, but you have to realise the other end of the scope that you are not giving any recognition too. That a brand new account can go all pissy on an old account and do signifigant and lasting damage that you can not stop no matter how well you play, or haw carefully you build your account. In other words, you have made the playing field so "level" that there is precticly no reason or advantage to make it worth while to actually play/grow/strive/have goals/ or anything of that nature. Just bank 1 time a day and when you have a bad day go whale on somebody because they can't stop you, and it will cost them far more then you lose to fight back.

On the non-reset game, players might start with 10.000 population.
But lets imagine they grew a little bit. They got now 10.000 of each military type. They might go on assaults, sabotages and assassination. They will lose 30.000 units, but they will kill only 15.000
The well established players are likely to have an UP which will let them grow by 15.000 or even 30.000 each day. The new players will destroy his account on massing a big player, and the big player will suffer no more than 1 day of UP.

there is NO game that I could ever class as interesting if it took only 10 minutes a day to master

It's easy to learn, but hard to master.

If there is no spontinaety, if there is no suprises, and if there is no human interaction then the game will not be nearly as successful as it could be, in my personal opinion.

good point

If there is no spontinaety, if there is no suprises, and if there is no human interaction then the game will not be nearly as successful as it could be, in my personal opinion.

[quote="Nomad"]

Kenzu wrote:In that case you didn't even have to write a post, if you didnt want to say anything.

Maybe he wants to say alot, but like many of us we can't or don't speak "kenzu" so talking to you is just frustrating to the point of no longer being worth our time.

Spoiler:

concerning the first that is in bold & underlined, it is NOT easy to learn, I have spoken to several players who have 5 or more years experience playing mmorpg's who cannot make heads or tails of Red Apocolypse...

As far as the last part, all I can say is this, if I have 4,5,6 or more people telling me the same thing, then I'd say I am the one with a listening/hearing/understanding problem, as it stands we are the ones who are all saying basically the same thing to you, & for whatever reason you cannot seem to listen to/hear/understand what myself & others have been saying to you, you should be more receptive to what others are saying, as it is you trying to get people to play your game not me...

I welcome any suggestions without using "red yellow and green kuwal", which will prevent a player to have a disadvantage at getting farmed against players who log in more than once a day to bank.

Kenzu wrote:I welcome any suggestions without using "red yellow and green kuwal", which will prevent a player to have a disadvantage at getting farmed against players who log in more than once a day to bank.

I don't understand.

only red kewul which you can not effect, or do anything with as a player, can be taken by someone else, so there is no way for anyone to be put at a disadvantage?


No one will farm live targets because they will never have enough kewal out to steal if they log in 1 time every 2 or 3 days, so only completely inactive accounts will get farmed, and thats going to take a while. Luckily there will be plenty of farms so once they start 0 out on defense the game will prolly pick up a bit then.

Yes, you are right, but kingkongfan said that many of the people he talked to say it's too complicated.

That's why I invite everyone to make suggestions how to make it more easy to understand. The system can be different, the result must be same.

The only way I see this to be possible by having 1 additional kuwal space, so you have 3 instead of 2, so that you can't deposit all your kuwal immediately.

You probably don't know about it, but at first the plan was to make it the way that you can deposit kuwal only once a day, and you deposit all at once. But this was not such a good idea. It's better to allow people to deposit as often as they want, while simply limiting how much can be deposited and preventing that the collect amount grows forever to prevent inactives to ammass huge amount of kuwal without playing.

------------------------------------------

There are a couple reasons why there are so many farms and actives never get farmed:
-there isn't enough turns for players to farm each single person once a day (actives deposit and thus they never have more than 1 day of income out)
-inactives produce a lot of kuwal compared to actives. The income of actives might be 3 times higher than that of inactives, which would allow actives to be farmed if actives produce enough turns to farm each player once in 3 days. Necessary AT per day: 4000 players*10 per attack / 3 days =13.313.333
There are 20 actives, thus AT production is 20*50=1000 (+trades)
Players produce less than 10% turns that are needed to reach a point that farming actives would be a good idea.

Measures I will take to put this into balance:
-AT production on Red Apocalypse will be DOUBLED.
-And all inactives will start with an income roughly 20 times smaller than players who logged in at least once.
-Trade Center will have roughly 10 times more resources, which means prices will change slower allowing people to buy more turns to farm.

Now that we have 20 actives each day, I guess we will have at least 30 during round 1. With everyone producing 98 turns per day and inactives prpducing less than one twentieth of active accounts, people should farm actives too.
AT needed: 4000*10/10 ten times smaller income = 4000
30*98= 3000

After players quadruble their income (should happen fast).
At needed will be 1000, while they produce 3000.

Kenzu wrote:-AT production on Red Apocalypse will be DOUBLED.

If you said that you will double the AT production on main server, I would agree with you, but on RA, its not the AT thats a problem, its the kuwal and UU, we dont have enough of that and way too much AT. There is no reason to have more AT on RA but there is a huge need for an AT boost on main server. I, for an example, never keep more than 1000 AT out at a time as I use it up raiding or farming, but on RA I currently have more than 1500 because I wont get any profit from raiding or farming. Another thing I see wrong about RA is that when you attack someone, the attacker loses a LOT (emphasise on LOT) more troops than the defender, that needs to go down to encourage more attacking to happen.

I do not like the fact that RA discourages away from actives farming other actives... takes alot of the fun out of it.

I recommend farming inactives when you can steal 100 million from them.

You might have too many AT now, but soon when inactives have 100 million, you will need 40.000 AT to farm all of them once!

also RA doesnt discourage farming actives. you have enough AT to farm them both.

PS: the reason why RA can have +100 AT per day and main not, is because RA started this way, while main already exists for a long time, and such sharp changes wouldn't be good for the game.

and what about the casualties caused from attacking, thats one of the main reasons i just build and not attack anyone ...

50% of casualties become wounded. I hope there will be an update soon, where they will become healed and can be used in battle again.

Well as of right now I can attack an inactive for 125m and lose 25 units
or I can attack an active for 150-200 mil and lose about 3-400 units

This is why I say its biased towards attacking inactives, it is much more practical for every one to be nice and just attack inactives.....

boooring...

First people complain that you cant farm inactives and now complain that inactives give out too much kuwal.

If you earn more from inactives, farm inactives.
Sooner or later actives will be so huge, producing so much kuwal that hitting an active will give much more profits.

Kenzu has a point


mainly right now there is no way to balance this game due to a low playerbase and thats that. The first year of a game is the most volitile, and the way this game was concieved will make it more so since it copied over 120/130 pages of "false" accounts.

There will be a time of no active accounts interacting and there is no way around it under the present conditions unless you simple remove all inactives and that brings the game to a hault as attcking actives makes no since, and the cost is so massive the attacker will be left in the dust.

We have to take the good with the bad, and go day by day, and we will for some time to come.

for the first time in my life (probably) I agree with Kenzu, sometimes its better for the community to attack Inactives till everyone is huge, makes less enemies and more friends that way.

EDIT: Can someone give me the link to the forum thread where i can find the detailed information on how much bonus resources you get from playing on RA?

well hes cut inactives incomes to stop the farming of inactives now. If your not topped rank you never will be now. Way to make sure certain people get the bonuses, you have made it so no one will ever be able to catch up now.

30 November

Income of inactive users has been halved by removing half their available farmers.

goku1719 wrote:: Can someone give me the link to the forum thread where i can find the detailed information on how much bonus resources you get from playing on RA?

https://aderanwars.forumotion.com/general-discussion-f44/resource-bonuses-worth-100-t2176.htm

The problem was that in the first couple of days, inactives had too little kuwal, and you had to wait almost a week to start farming them, this process has been speeded up by having them reach the proper empire kuwal size faster. Now that they have reached it, inactive income has been returned to the size it had at the beginning of the game.

So no, people who start now are not in a disadvantage because they cant farm properly (because when inactives had less than 100 million empire kuwal, it was barely worth it attacking)

what kenzu says is true... inactives accumulated cash slow enough as it was during the early stages but thankfully it wasnt half as slow as it was otherwise it wouldve been insanely frustrating... most of the actives have exhausted the majority of their ATs so they wont have enough left to mine the inactives too far below 200k

what i would like to know is why does the red kuwal (the amount that can be stolen by others) on some people's accounts decrease?
Understandably it might be from an attack but iv noticed with my account that it has decreased just slightly the past 2 days (with no attacks on me) instead of increasing yet some of my income still goes toward the red kuwal?

If you used overtime, followed by relaxed (or normal), your empire Kuwal may be more than 50x your relaxed (or normal) income.
In that case, the 2% that is paid to your home Kuwal is more than what you add each turn. Just speculating of course.
I used to think that the empire Kuwal would grow to infinite size given time, but found out that it just slowly approaches 50 * your income, because each turn 1/50th of your empire Kuwal is transferred to home Kuwal (unless you're inactive.) I should have realised that sooner.

J1nx wrote:what kenzu says is true... inactives accumulated cash slow enough as it was during the early stages but thankfully it wasnt half as slow as it was otherwise it wouldve been insanely frustrating... most of the actives have exhausted the majority of their ATs so they wont have enough left to mine the inactives too far below 200k

what i would like to know is why does the red kuwal (the amount that can be stolen by others) on some people's accounts decrease?
Understandably it might be from an attack but iv noticed with my account that it has decreased just slightly the past 2 days (with no attacks on me) instead of increasing yet some of my income still goes toward the red kuwal?

Allow me to explain:

Every turn the amount of Kuwal in your bank that exceeds the maximum amount possible in your bank is transferred to your Empire Kuwal.
Every Turn 2% of your Empire kuwal is transformed into YELLOW Kuwal.
This Yellow kuwal can be stolen if not banked.
Yellow kuwal needs to be put into bank to make you able to spend it.
Excess Kuwal in your bank is transferred into Empire Kuwal starting the cycle over again.

So the reason your Empire Kuwal decreased over time might be because you had no kuwal tranferred to Empire Kuwal from your bank.

Kenzu wrote:The problem was that in the first couple of days, inactives had too little kuwal, and you had to wait almost a week to start farming them, this process has been speeded up by having them reach the proper empire kuwal size faster. Now that they have reached it, inactive income has been returned to the size it had at the beginning of the game.

So no, people who start now are not in a disadvantage because they cant farm properly (because when inactives had less than 100 million empire kuwal, it was barely worth it attacking)

So what your saying is you made a change priviously, didn't tell anyone, and now return it to its prior state with this announcement?

My work condition has been normal and iv had amounts ranging from 10k to 1.4kkk stored in my bank over periods of time and plenty of yellow kuwal so im still confused as to why my red kuwal is gradually decreasing... where is it going to, where is that portion of my income that i dont get that goes toward my red kuwal going?

J1nx wrote:what kenzu says is true... inactives accumulated cash slow enough as it was during the early stages but thankfully it wasnt half as slow as it was otherwise it wouldve been insanely frustrating... most of the actives have exhausted the majority of their ATs so they wont have enough left to mine the inactives too far below 200k

what i would like to know is why does the red kuwal (the amount that can be stolen by others) on some people's accounts decrease?
Understandably it might be from an attack but iv noticed with my account that it has decreased just slightly the past 2 days (with no attacks on me) instead of increasing yet some of my income still goes toward the red kuwal?

switching to normal or relaxed after overtime means less kuwal goes into empire kuwal account, while all the time 1/48 of empire kuwal is sent to home planet kuwal, that's why empire kuwal can decrease without being farmed

Special Agent 47 wrote:

Kenzu wrote:The problem was that in the first couple of days, inactives had too little kuwal, and you had to wait almost a week to start farming them, this process has been speeded up by having them reach the proper empire kuwal size faster. Now that they have reached it, inactive income has been returned to the size it had at the beginning of the game.

So no, people who start now are not in a disadvantage because they cant farm properly (because when inactives had less than 100 million empire kuwal, it was barely worth it attacking)

So what your saying is you made a change priviously, didn't tell anyone, and now return it to its prior state with this announcement?

Yes, but as you might have noticed recently, I announce all major changes.
Not all bug fixes though, otherwise you would see a news page too frequently, not sure everyone wants that.
I haven't been so keen on announcing changes before though.