avalible funds

by Nomad Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:43 pm

in AW2 you kept the same set up on "available funds" but because of the changes you made this is now inaccurate and so is the tool tip explanation.

If it stays available funds it should show the yellow kuwel amount only, or the amount in the bank.

Other possible names if it continues to show the red amount could be kewal in transit, incoming funds, funds in danger, but honestly why would you even want this # since there is nothing you can do about it?

by goku1719 Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:47 pm

what are you on about? And tell me this: can you use the new server with your old login id? Im asking this because when i try to log onto the server it says no user found with the username __________. Please answer.

by Nomad Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:38 pm

goku1719 wrote:what are you on about? And tell me this: can you use the new server with your old login id? Im asking this because when i try to log onto the server it says no user found with the username __________. Please answer.

when you get into the game you will see what I am on about.

When you banked before your avalible kewul turned red and showed the empire kewul, today it stayed yellow and displayed 0, is that correct? you guys change something?

by goku1719 Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:56 pm

um its da same on da normal server. Hw do get into the new server?

by Nomad Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:07 pm

goku1719 wrote:um its da same on da normal server. Hw do get into the new server?

no its not, there is no red or yellow income on AW main.

you log into AW2 with the same log in details as main, if that doesnt work PM admin or Kenzu to fix it.

Come to find out, farmed kuwel no longer goes straight to the bank, but stays out in the "yellow" kewul. The problem with this is, you can not spend "yellow" kewul. That means even if you had the kewul to buy an upgrade in blue "banked" kewal and yellow kewul, you can't buy the upgrade unless you bank is big enough to hold the kuwel.

by J1nx Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:59 am

my bank is special, it doesnt adhere to any limits Razz

by Kenzu Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:39 am

@Nomad
Because a couple players said that it's confusing to show empire kuwal (red) and home planet kuwal (yellow) in one place, and there was not enough place to put it in separate places, now you will always see Home Planet kuwal, and after you deposit it, it will show that you have 0 home planet kuwal.

Also, farming now doesnt shift kuwal to bank, but instead to home planet kuwal, to prevent that people exceed their bank capacity. This means that now bank size is indirectly determining how expensive research you can make. With a bank building, a research of maximum 6 days of your income.

Also, that home "yellow" kuwal cannot be spent and an upgrade cannot be made if bank can't hold that much, even if you have much more "yellow" kuwal => this isn't a problem. This is intended. Without it, the bank size restriction would be pretty useless.

Trading will also have to be updated so that trade brokers, GM and trade center trading send kuwal to home planet.

@goku
Players who registered on Aderan Wars after userdetails from main have been copied to Red Apocalypse don't have an account there. You will have to wait until all missing accounts will be copied to RA and registering on main will also create an account on RA with same login details. Sorry for the inconvenience.

EDIT: I have seen your account on RA, this means that you can log in with your old details. The only reason why you might not be able to log in is if you have changed your password or email in recent time.

@J1nx
Try now, if you can make your bank have more than maximum.
If yes, tell me how you did it.

by Nomad Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:45 am

first off why can't you tell this before, or when you make a signifigant change? Is it that hard to post an explination why you change something? Rolling Eyes

Not being able to spend yellow kuwel is a dumb idea to me personally, but whatever, its your game.

by Manleva Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:15 pm

Nomad wrote:Not being able to spend yellow kuwel is a dumb idea to me personally, but whatever, its your game.

As Home Planet Kuwal is unfarmable one has to wonder what the point of the bank is other than acting as a method of restricting research.

It even impacts on Farming because the only farmable Kuwal will be that which is in transit so over time there is going to be a massive build up of untouchable and unusable kuwal in all of the inactive accounts.

by Nomad Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:54 am

Manleva wrote:
Nomad wrote:Not being able to spend yellow kuwel is a dumb idea to me personally, but whatever, its your game.

As Home Planet Kuwal is unfarmable one has to wonder what the point of the bank is other than acting as a method of restricting research.

It even impacts on Farming because the only farmable Kuwal will be that which is in transit so over time there is going to be a massive build up of untouchable and unusable kuwal in all of the inactive accounts.

not really.

at 30 hrs of income no more income converts from "red" to "yellow" income. But its stupid that you have income that you can not spend. Upgrades should be able to be purchased with banked and Yellow income added together.

by melonhead Sat Oct 30, 2010 5:31 am

Not being able to use your yellow kuwal is a terrible idea. In main if you attack and cant put it all in the bank you can still use your kuwal on hand quickly before you get hit. Now this takes out that and the idea of going on ppt to save up kuwal for an upgrade.

terrible terrible idea, this alone may cause me to stop playing Red Apocolypse, coupled with the high cost of increasing bank size... it has pretty much doomed the new game.

by goku1719 Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:13 pm

i jus wish ra didnt reset.

by Nomad Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:41 pm

goku1719 wrote:i jus wish ra didnt reset.

its going to become a non resetable in time. instead of doing the normal thing of a beta and launch, Kenzu is doing his game as a "limited" resetable, meaning it will reset 2, or 3, or 4, or how ever many times it takes till he is comfortable with it and then it will launch into a non resetable.

He has mentioned the possibility of 2 AW2 games, one resetable and 1 non resetable.

by Kenzu Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:30 am

Nomad wrote:first off why can't you tell this before, or when you make a signifigant change? Is it that hard to post an explination why you change something?

Not being able to spend yellow kuwel is a dumb idea to me personally, but whatever, its your game.

Bank exists for a reason. If you can have unlimited kuwal in your bank, then the bank is pretty much redundant.

Manleva wrote:
Nomad wrote:Not being able to spend yellow kuwel is a dumb idea to me personally, but whatever, its your game.

As Home Planet Kuwal is unfarmable one has to wonder what the point of the bank is other than acting as a method of restricting research.

It even impacts on Farming because the only farmable Kuwal will be that which is in transit so over time there is going to be a massive build up of untouchable and unusable kuwal in all of the inactive accounts.

How? It doesnt matter how long you haven't been online, there will never be more than 30 hours of kuwal to deposit.
Farmable kuwal is not the one which is in transit. I consider the yellow kuwal in transit, but you farm the red one, namely Empire kuwal.

melonhead wrote:Not being able to use your yellow kuwal is a terrible idea. In main if you attack and cant put it all in the bank you can still use your kuwal on hand quickly before you get hit. Now this takes out that and the idea of going on ppt to save up kuwal for an upgrade.

terrible terrible idea, this alone may cause me to stop playing Red Apocolypse, coupled with the high cost of increasing bank size... it has pretty much doomed the new game.

If it's such a big problem for you then I guess we can make a change to allow yellow kuwal to temporarily become green one.
For example by allowing you to bank kuwal in your bank, overfilling it, to give you the possibility to research even things which are more expensive than 6 days of income.

But seriously, why the hell do you need to research something which costs more than 6 days of income?
Of course if you farm the kuwal, then it's a different thing, and I believe you should be able to invest it in costly research if you want.

If a bank is overfilled and remains overfilled until new turns comes, then excess kuwal will become yellow kuwal again.
This means that you can still make extremely costly upgrades if you farm, but you won't be able to hoard 2 weeks of kuwal income in a bank that can keep only 6 days of income.

Upgrading bank size cost will be halved!
Also upgrading bank size by +5% will cost 7 MT instead of 14.

1 day Protection will cost 5 MT.

Trading ships will give +3.5 MT per week instead of 2 MT, so non SS players produce 14 MT per week and SS players 21 MT per week if they got both special resources and trade center.

During protection, players will be able to build yellow kuwal as much as possible, after an update.
Currently going on 4 days protection would halt the increase in yellow kuwal after 60 turns.

by Nomad Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:46 am

so basicly your saying you can not even spend the kewal you can farm?

well, it will force growth and stop those who always sell to reap the benifits of being small so its not an all bad idea.

Kenzu wrote:

Upgrading bank size cost will be halved!
Also upgrading bank size by +5% will cost 7 MT instead of 14.

1 day Protection will cost 5 MT.

Trading ships will give +3.5 MT per week instead of 2 MT, so non SS players produce 14 MT per week and SS players 21 MT per week if they got both special resources and trade center.

During protection, players will be able to build yellow kuwal as much as possible, after an update.
Currently going on 4 days protection would halt the increase in yellow kuwal after 60 turns.

I still have to say that I love the way you announce changes Laughing

by Kenzu Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:49 am

thanks, but you guys are right. You should be able to spend the kuwal you already have on anything you like, so I will make an update which allows you to temporarily overfill banks.

by seaborgium Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:52 am

I know GW you lose money per turn based on how full your bank is.

by Manleva Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:57 am

Kenzu wrote:thanks, but you guys are right. You should be able to spend the kuwal you already have on anything you like, so I will make an update which allows you to temporarily overfill banks.

I don't think that is the answer either and I'm not sure how it can be rectified easily with the way that you have set up income and the bank.

I'll try and explain what I mean.

It appears to me that we now have Kuwal in three places.

Empire Kuwal - Income generated in the planets that can be farmed - the red figures.
Home Planet Kuwal - Kuwal which is at the home planet or in transit and cannot be farmed or used - the yellow figures.
Bank Kuwal - Kuwal which has been banked and can be used but cannot be farmed - the green figures

Now it appears to me that in affect we have two banks here that protect kuwal. One is limited in size and contains the Kuwal that we can use and another that is unlimited in size and protects the Kuwal until it is transferred into the bank for use.

All kuwal gained from farming goes directly into the Yellow so it is immediately protected if not immediately usable. This means that a player who is farming can do so without having to worry that their farming proceeds will be at risk so they can continue to farm and amass massive amounts without any risk. I think that this is wrong and while I believe that farming proceeds should be usable immediately they should also be at risk of being farmed. ie the reward of amassing massive kuwal from farming is balanced by the risk of being farmed.

With regard to bank size limiting research rather than allowing the bank to be overfilled I would prefer an option that would first use all bank kuwal and then take the balance from the home planet (yellow) kuwal.

Now I will admit that I have seen some comments around there being a limit of 30 hours income for yellow Kuwal but that from what I have seen relates to income and not farming and this may have some bearing on things but if so it has not been explained clearly yet.

by Nomad Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:05 am

when you hit 30 hrs of income in yellow kewul, no more red kewal turns over to yellow kewal.

I agree with emptying the bank and then pulling whats needed from the yellow.

I also dont like farming with no fear, but im willing to try it.

by Kenzu Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:06 am

Main server is already made that way. I know that it is more exciting to farm when you know your kuwal can get stolen and also exciting to steal the kuwal someone else was stealing, but we should not forget what the aim of Red Apocalypse is. Namely to make the game more newbie friendly, especially to those who never played browser games before, and also to make friendly to people who have very little time.

Truth is, a big portion of new players, who are giving broser games a shot will become demoralised fast if they farm and have their kuwal stolen and will quit the game, because they will think it's a stupid system. Not everyone will think of the possibility of opening multiple tabs. Ask a friend who never played any browser game to register on aderan wars and play it for 1 hour, without any of your help. You will see it's not as easy as it might see.

Keeping the system the way it is also helps to find cheaters, because since kuwal builds up gradually, is banked before protection ends, and farmed kuwal becomes protected too, then it can never happen that someone steals too much kuwal at once, and thus people who cheat by farming their multi account, which was on protection or farmed other accounts before will be identified much faster.

by Nomad Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:11 am

yeah, but will the game have enough "thrill" to keep players?

You may get new players, but once bored and trained in MMORPG's will they stay or move on to something with so thrill to it?

Guess time will tell is all I can say.

by Manleva Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:54 am

Kenzu wrote:Main server is already made that way. I know that it is more exciting to farm when you know your kuwal can get stolen and also exciting to steal the kuwal someone else was stealing, but we should not forget what the aim of Red Apocalypse is. Namely to make the game more newbie friendly, especially to those who never played browser games before, and also to make friendly to people who have very little time.

If that is you aim then you need to consider what is attracting the newbie to the game - Are you offering what you are advertising i.e. is it a war game with the thrill that new player would be expecting.

Truth is, a big portion of new players, who are giving broser games a shot will become demoralised fast if they farm and have their kuwal stolen and will quit the game, because they will think it's a stupid system. Not everyone will think of the possibility of opening multiple tabs. Ask a friend who never played any browser game to register on aderan wars and play it for 1 hour, without any of your help. You will see it's not as easy as it might see.

If you are designing a game that will require less activity then the chances of new players becoming demoralized is not that great. Even in Main I have only been hit once in over 12 months while farming. There is only one way to help the newbie with this and that is to offer them some degree of protection so that they cannot be targeted by everyone.

Keeping the system the way it is also helps to find cheaters, because since kuwal builds up gradually, is banked before protection ends, and farmed kuwal becomes protected too, then it can never happen that someone steals too much kuwal at once, and thus people who cheat by farming their multi account, which was on protection or farmed other accounts before will be identified much faster.

Cheaters will always be an issue in any game like this. The best way to limit cheating is to not include features in the game that can become exploitable. Currently there appears to be a lot of emphasis on catching cheaters and I think it's time more consideration was given not to catching cheaters but rather to removing or reworking the features where the cheating is taking place. And yes there will be screams from some players but those who scream the loudest will be those that would rather have every advantage possible rather than working to build an account.

by Kenzu Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:54 pm

Just because you need to log in only once a day doesn't mean it won't be exciting. Wars will become much easier to understand.

Before you had to spy someone and then figure out how many assassins you have to send to succeed, and if you failed, you lost 75% of all assassins. Not many will want to risk a war with someone if they aren't 100% sure what they are doing.

But on RA, all you need to make a deadly assassin mission is to click the send assassins button. And even with weak technology, you don't run the risk that you won't be able to harm the enemy at all and kill yoursef by losing most of your assassins.

Also, if someone will think they have too much free time, they will always have the opportunity to play main, or evolutions server, which has more action.

Also, I believe, that no matter how great features a game has, if 2 games are interesting, it's more likely that someone quits a game because he can't spend 1 hour on it game each day, and doesnt want to be a weak player either, and much less likely that someone who plays only 10 minutes a day to quit a game when it's interesting.

A game gets boring only if you achieved everything and there is no challenge for you, or the game isn't interesting. There is no risk for that to happen to any of Aderan Wars games.

by kingkongfan1 Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:41 pm

Kenzu wrote:
A game gets boring only if you achieved everything and there is no challenge for you, or the game isn't interesting. There is no risk for that to happen to any of Aderan Wars games.

Once again, you are wrong, & I am pretty sure that I am not the only one who thinks this, do not ask why or what, because I have given up trying to explain anything to you, or get a clear understandable explaination from you...

by Kenzu Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:45 pm

In that case you didn't even have to write a post, if you didnt want to say anything.

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