Re: Personal War's issue

by nobel Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:10 pm

This situation is becoming increasingly bizarre.

It could be argued, and is probably the case, that WR has acted unsympathetically. They would argue they have acted reasonably (profitably farming) and that may well be true.

Hai-Shulud, you can REQUEST certain things but I don't think you can DEMAND anything from any alliance.

You have requested to be left alone while you rebuild. This was reasonable. WR ignored that request. Either declare war or moveon.org

by Nimras Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:26 pm

nobel wrote:This situation is becoming increasingly bizarre.

It could be argued, and is probably the case, that WR has acted unsympathetically. They would argue they have acted reasonably (profitably farming) and that may well be true.

Hai-Shulud, you can REQUEST certain things but I don't think you can DEMAND anything from any alliance.

You have requested to be left alone while you rebuild. This was reasonable. WR ignored that request. Either declare war or moveon.org

Dont you mean whinemore.com?

by ian Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:14 pm

Hai-Shulud wrote:
Nimras wrote:NO offense Hai but impressed with MUJ leadership? That has to be a joke right?

Well Ishurue came all the way to dune and was in my alliance for a while. Im a sentimental kind of guy - so when someone goes to war with me side by side and performs their duties they earn my trust and respect.

I've also been tracking the whole TIE - Muj - WR politics from the beginning. I was there when Ish first emerged as a leader and there when we first underestimated him and there when Muj was formed. And even though ive been away for a long time i still talk to Ian during that time and he would fill me in.

It seems to me that in many aspects Muj is very similar to TIE. I like their mentality, their play style and most of all the way they interact with others. These are all things i respect in TIE so it would be hypocritical not to appreciate them in others.

In another world in another server TIE and Muj would make a great alliance. However they have chosen to throw their peas in the same bowl as WR. So while i respect them i will not refrain from eating them.

@Sea - i would agree that many take these games too seriously, hence i make it my mission to annoy those kind of people as much as possible

@Jiro - your solution certainly entertained me. You have nothing to apologise for. My motd is very misleading i agree, also i may not have made myself clear enough initially. However the problem here is that Kenzu KNEW what i requested and yet he did not inform his members or take any kind of action - IF you look over those attack logs YES most are profitable but there are some that arent and EVEN THOSE haven't been addressed by him. Hence why im so angry and close to starting a bonfire somewhere uncomfortable for them.

UPDATE - KENZU's PM TO ME -

------

hi, ian told me that you have some problems with certain members, i am sorry but I didnt see you on MSN recently to discuss the matter.

I am currently on vacation, since friday and I will be back on tuesday, in the meanwhile we can talk via pm.

so please tell me, who attacked you and what exactly is the problem.

As I understand you dont like getting farmed, and you are threatening others to mass them if they do.

You should know that people can decide not to farm you if they wish, but that doesn't mean that they must not farm you. It is their free will, and any kind of threats just make the matter worse.

you should also know that a hostile mission against any of our members is the same as a declaration of war against all of TOC which will be returned with complete annihilation against the attacker, if you are not a member of TIE then only against you, but if you are still Imperium member, then this will obviously mean that you dragged Imperium to war.

So I obviously hope you will not make a mistake.
Are there any other things you would like to discuss, or if I have misunderstood what you wanted to talk about, then please tell me.

on a side note, if you wish to have 1 vs 1 with any of our members, then it should be fine and will most likely be treated as a 1 vs 1, if our member isnt much smaller than you, if he agreed to it, and if you informed me of this in advance, and if I approved it. Always make sure our alliance approves of 1 on 1, so that you dont have the whole alliance against you, which you probably dont want anyway.

SENT - Keinutnai no subject [26 Sep] 23:27 Reply save

Ill let you all digest that first

Kenzu, keep digging yourself and WR a hole.

You ve now stated it is your intention to declare war on The Imperium should Hai-Shalud attack your members, and should The Imperum not remove him from TIE.

2 thing's then:

1.) I ll talk to Hai, and try and talk him into taking a more rational course of action. But I sure as hell won't order him not to do something - free will and personal liberty is something TIE embodies

2.) TIE will NOT remove him from our ranks if he goes ahead with launching a personal war against WR.

Therefore.. if he decides to go ahead with a personal war against WR, TIE will end up in war is exactly what you just said because you ll declare war on us.

As such, give WR's intention to declare war and attack innocent TIE members who ve done absolutely nothing to WR, don't complain at what TIE's response might be.

If you want to try and intimate TIE, your a fool. We won't be intimidated, and we won't be threatened by you or your alliance. Tread very very carefully Kenzu - you might just be the cause of WR's final downfall.

I d also advise you to consider your own advise:

Kenzu wrote:However threatening to mass people if they farm you profitably is a bad thing to do. Massing them is even worse.

As you know the mere threat of massing someone can sometimes lead to getting massed yourself. If you played many browser games, you might have experienced that already

Threatening to mass TIE over a individual's actions is a bad thing to do. As you know the mere threat of massing (by WR) someone can lead to getting massed yourself. Don't complain when your own words come back to haunt you.

by Hai-Shulud Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:15 pm

Nimras wrote:Dont you mean whinemore.com?

Careful mate - i dont appreciate sarcasm on a serious thread. You want to make jokes send me a private message and ill banter with you all day.

Im going to distill the entire situation into 4 lines:

I say if you farm me in the next week ill mass you
WR members keep farming me
I expressly warn Kenzu AGAIN that his members farm me ill mass them
TIE informs Kenzu that if im massed by WR as a collective they will support me

.... Kenzu's turn to answer

As to my "demands" they are my solution to the situation seeing as no one has come up with anything better. Im not really open to suggestions but i wont turn a blind eye either

by Vesper Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:33 pm

Kenzu wrote:

You should know that people can decide not to farm you if they wish, but that doesn't mean that they must not farm you. It is their free will, and any kind of threats just make the matter worse.

you should also know that a hostile mission against any of our members is the same as a declaration of war against all of TOC which will be returned with complete annihilation against the attacker, if you are not a member of TIE then only against you, but if you are still Imperium member, then this will obviously mean that you dragged Imperium to war.

In your message to Hai these paragraphs are back to back. Paragraph 1 is you saying threatening only makes matters worse. In paragraph 2 you threaten him with total war for defending his own account... Don't you think that you threatening TIE with alliance war is going to make matters worse? I don't think you really grasp just how bad a war right now would be. I think a war now will kill Aderan.

Now Kenzu in your other post, I don't feel like quoting it you told Hai to message each person individually. What sense would that make? He messaged you, am I right? As an alliance leader you think you would use your gift of alliance wide messages and like, you know, send a message with Hai's request. Seems like the simple way to avoid these issues. But, you can make things difficult if you want. Makes no difference to me.

by ian Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:37 pm

I spoke to Hai-Shalud and told him to back down under the understanding I wouldn't stop him going after Kenzu at a later date and declaring a 1 vs. 1

Given Kenzu's threats against The Imperium for the actions of a individual member even after TIE's made its stance clear (that if he masses innocent WR members we wouldn't intervene against a TOC counter-attack) and given he's already said he ll hold ALL of TIE accountable for the actions of that individual member with absolutely zero regard to the causes of those actions... then I have no issue with him declaring a 1 vs 1 at a later date against Kenzu.

It makes sense and seems right that a war is averted between TIE & TOC at the expense of Kenzu, when it was him who even made it a TIE vs. TOC situation by threatening to escalate it to include TIE when before it didn't include us.

So.... let there peace for a while, untill Kenzu's account gets lit up like a Christmas tree by Hai.

Its a good arrangement for WR... all those WR player's Kenzu claims to always represent and try to protect, will be left out of what could have been a very bloody situation - one made a lot worse by Kenzu's threats against TIE. If he's really the leader he claims to be - one who cares about his members... he won't have a problem with a 1 vs. 1 if it means saving his members from a war he chose to create.

If he hides behind the rest of TOC.... then it will expose him for the true leader he is. Either way... his true colours will be exposed sooner or later - the only question is what will those colours be?

by Kenzu Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:52 am

ian wrote:Hey.

I just want a record of my & Kenzu's discussions regarding the issue with Hai-shalud and his personal stance on farming (see other war's area).

So.. here is the ingame communications:

My Message to Kenzu

Hey buddy.

You might want to contact Hai-Shalud ASAP, as he's about ready to start declaring personal war's against some of your members who ve repeatedly ignored his requests to stop farming him while he gets reestablished on the game.

If he launches a personal war, and given your less than great efforts to contact him... TIE's stance will be that its a personal war, and noone should get involved. If WR were then to get involved, we d become involved as well.

So... it would be best if you 2 could chat and find a solution before this thing gets out of control....

Thanks

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Kenzu's Response:

hai shulud is a member of your alliance, either kick him out of the alliance if he doesnt represent your views, and then only he will be massed by WR if he dares to attack us, or if he masses WR members and doesnt get kicked out of TIE, then we will consider this an assault of TIE against TOC and act accordingly.

Besides, I am on vacation as I told you before. I was on MSN today for a couple hours, Hai Shulud didnt seem to want to talk, also I havent recieved anything from him recently.

Another thing is that he shouldnt threat anyone from TOC. If he doesnt want to get farmed, he can build a defense, but he cant expect that people wont farm him just because he is threatening them.

a hostile mission against any WR member is the invitation to be massed by all of TOC.

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My Response:

Your right, Hai shouldn't make threats to T.O.C.

However... its worth noting he has attempted to contact yourself and other WR members to try and arrange to not be farmed/come to a agreement while he gets his account in order since he's just rejoined Aderan Wars.

Consequently, it now rests in part on yourself & those WR members contacted to respond back to him and engage in a dialogue. If you don't you ll basically be ignoring him.... and if you ignore him... then what exactly do you expect him to do? Just accept whats happening and do nothing about it?

If something happens because he's kept being farmed, and not had any contact back from World Republic when he's previously contacted you... then WR will be partly to blame as well.

In such an event... World Republic will be far from innocent/ victims. Purposefully ignoring someone when you know it concerns a matter detrimental to that person's account, is a hostile act in itself since it prolongs the detrimental factors.

If Hai-shalud therefore takes matters into his own hands, after trying to contact yourself and other WR members... you only have yourselves to blame.

TIE's stance will be that any consequences of such an action, should be treated as a personal-conflict, since the farmers/WR will have deliberately ignored his attempts at communication - leaving him with only 2 choices to either accept whats being done, or to resort to other methods other than communication to make his point known.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

By all means take the actions of Hai-Shalud as the actions of The Imperium and a declaration of war by The Imperium if you want. I can say right now I won't be removing him from The Imperium.

Personally... I d say such a position would be absurd. Anyone with half a brain-cell - including your own members - will know that when The Imperium goes to war we don't send in a lone 2million army size player to launch a attack on WR. So... good luck selling that one to your members about The Imperium declaring war.

I suspect both they, and Mujengen... would have a problem with WR/TOC essentially declaring war on TIE based on the actions of a single TIE member who's previously already attempted to contact yourself/WR to find a solution.

You do know he's already made contact with Mujengen and spoke to Lurant Maximus right? I don't know the details of what was discussed, or what was said or if anything was agreed... but at least Mujengen responded back promptly to his attempts at contact.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, essentially TIE's stance is this:

If Hai's contacted INDIVIDUALS who's farming him and they keep farming him ignoring his requests not to be farmed... and he then acts against THOSE individuals we ll treat it as a personal vendetta. As long as Hai keeps his retaliation to those who chose to ignore him... as far as TIE's concerned its a personal issue and should be kept as that - with TIE, WR or TOC itself remaining uninvolved.

Should WR involve themselves in such an event.. TIE will intervene against WR.

If Hai starts launching a vendetta against innocents who ve done nothing to him in either WR/ Mujengen... TIE will treat that as him being a fool. In such an event, provided you contact us beforehand (simply because "future events" haven't happened yet so noone knows what the details of the situation will be) and we give the go ahead... then you can retaliate as a alliance how you like.

It would, however, be up to TIE whether we keep him in it or not.... and if thats deemed a declaration of war by TIE on WR/TOC... then so be it.

One thing is certain however: Your telling me you ll take Hai's actions as a declaration of war by TIE if we refuse to remove him from TIE, is completely absurd. TIE won't be intimidated that easily.... so I must kindly inform you that we are fully 100% happy for you to carry out that threat and essentially declare war on TIE.

Such an action would result in little to no internal disputes in TIE. Such an action however would result in considerable internal disputes within TOC - people would say you started the war, and would not be happy at being asked to support a war of aggression....

Its your call either way.

Regards

Ian

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Awaiting Kenzu's response.

Next time ask me for permission to make private conversations public.
Where are your manners?

ian wrote:I spoke to Hai-Shalud and told him to back down under the understanding I wouldn't stop him going after Kenzu at a later date and declaring a 1 vs. 1

Given Kenzu's threats against The Imperium for the actions of a individual member even after TIE's made its stance clear (that if he masses innocent WR members we wouldn't intervene against a TOC counter-attack) and given he's already said he ll hold ALL of TIE accountable for the actions of that individual member with absolutely zero regard to the causes of those actions... then I have no issue with him declaring a 1 vs 1 at a later date against Kenzu.

It makes sense and seems right that a war is averted between TIE & TOC at the expense of Kenzu, when it was him who even made it a TIE vs. TOC situation by threatening to escalate it to include TIE when before it didn't include us.

So.... let there peace for a while, untill Kenzu's account gets lit up like a Christmas tree by Hai.

Its a good arrangement for WR... all those WR player's Kenzu claims to always represent and try to protect, will be left out of what could have been a very bloody situation - one made a lot worse by Kenzu's threats against TIE. If he's really the leader he claims to be - one who cares about his members... he won't have a problem with a 1 vs. 1 if it means saving his members from a war he chose to create.

If he hides behind the rest of TOC.... then it will expose him for the true leader he is. Either way... his true colours will be exposed sooner or later - the only question is what will those colours be?

WR standard policy to mass those, who mass our members.
It's nothing new and most alliances have this policy as well.

Obviously those who support the massers are often massed by the defending alliances, Imperium has done that previously as well.

Since ian promised that he and Imperium will not help Hai-Shulud at all, then I guess we could treat this as hostility of only one player, and not that of an alliance.

Conflicts are not sparked by those who don't do what they don't have to do. If I don't want to send an alliance wide message, then I will not send it. If this angers you, then it isn't me who is responsible for your anger, but you yourself.

Those who abandon treaties like the TOC-TIE farming policy, which has been signed to bring peace, are the ones who are sparking conflict, and not those who oppose abandoning such treaties.

Due to more work I have now, I won't be able to dedicate so much time to forum discussions anymore, but I should be able to respond to all messages within 24 hours, so contact me ingame if you need anything.

by seaborgium Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:02 pm

1. learn to use spoilers.
2. I am sure you and I have talked about the msn thing.
3. My alliance doesn't have the policy you speak of, however.. We do say if you post a 1vs1 before hitting, then its just the 2 of you. If no post = declaration of war.
4. Sorry about work

by Nimras Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:49 pm

Hai-Shulud wrote:
Nimras wrote:Dont you mean whinemore.com?

Careful mate - i dont appreciate sarcasm on a serious thread. You want to make jokes send me a private message and ill banter with you all day.

Im going to distill the entire situation into 4 lines:

I say if you farm me in the next week ill mass you
WR members keep farming me
I expressly warn Kenzu AGAIN that his members farm me ill mass them
TIE informs Kenzu that if im massed by WR as a collective they will support me

.... Kenzu's turn to answer

As to my "demands" they are my solution to the situation seeing as no one has come up with anything better. Im not really open to suggestions but i wont turn a blind eye either

Actually to me this thread is more and more WHINE than anything.

1. You asked to be left alone for 2 weeks fair.
2. Did anyone have to be nice and not farm you in those 2 weeks NO.
3. IAN and Kenzu again in banter over something like this.

No offense but this seriuse thread to me seems more about who can whine the most about something that you made very clear is irrelivant you knew not all would honour it because no one had to you and even made it clear they would be massed at some point for not being nice to you in those 14 days,

INstead the rest still whine about your case and another case and in my eyes the shortest fhrase to say in this is whinemore.com.

by seaborgium Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:52 pm

While I agree about some of what you said nimras, did you happen to notice who hit him the most?

by Nimras Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:53 pm

seaborgium wrote:While I agree about some of what you said nimras, did you happen to notice who hit him the most?

Yes i did and i still stand with what i said heck i would have hit him as well if he had anything out sadly he didn't

So i would have been a target of his.

by seaborgium Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:01 pm

I know hai, if you had gotten in 1-2 hits you would have been fine, its more the players that he sees over and over again.

by ian Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:09 pm

Kenzu wrote:
ian wrote:Hey.

I just want a record of my & Kenzu's discussions regarding the issue with Hai-shalud and his personal stance on farming (see other war's area).

So.. here is the ingame communications:

My Message to Kenzu

Hey buddy.

You might want to contact Hai-Shalud ASAP, as he's about ready to start declaring personal war's against some of your members who ve repeatedly ignored his requests to stop farming him while he gets reestablished on the game.

If he launches a personal war, and given your less than great efforts to contact him... TIE's stance will be that its a personal war, and noone should get involved. If WR were then to get involved, we d become involved as well.

So... it would be best if you 2 could chat and find a solution before this thing gets out of control....

Thanks

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kenzu's Response:

hai shulud is a member of your alliance, either kick him out of the alliance if he doesnt represent your views, and then only he will be massed by WR if he dares to attack us, or if he masses WR members and doesnt get kicked out of TIE, then we will consider this an assault of TIE against TOC and act accordingly.

Besides, I am on vacation as I told you before. I was on MSN today for a couple hours, Hai Shulud didnt seem to want to talk, also I havent recieved anything from him recently.

Another thing is that he shouldnt threat anyone from TOC. If he doesnt want to get farmed, he can build a defense, but he cant expect that people wont farm him just because he is threatening them.

a hostile mission against any WR member is the invitation to be massed by all of TOC.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My Response:

Your right, Hai shouldn't make threats to T.O.C.

However... its worth noting he has attempted to contact yourself and other WR members to try and arrange to not be farmed/come to a agreement while he gets his account in order since he's just rejoined Aderan Wars.

Consequently, it now rests in part on yourself & those WR members contacted to respond back to him and engage in a dialogue. If you don't you ll basically be ignoring him.... and if you ignore him... then what exactly do you expect him to do? Just accept whats happening and do nothing about it?

If something happens because he's kept being farmed, and not had any contact back from World Republic when he's previously contacted you... then WR will be partly to blame as well.

In such an event... World Republic will be far from innocent/ victims. Purposefully ignoring someone when you know it concerns a matter detrimental to that person's account, is a hostile act in itself since it prolongs the detrimental factors.

If Hai-shalud therefore takes matters into his own hands, after trying to contact yourself and other WR members... you only have yourselves to blame.

TIE's stance will be that any consequences of such an action, should be treated as a personal-conflict, since the farmers/WR will have deliberately ignored his attempts at communication - leaving him with only 2 choices to either accept whats being done, or to resort to other methods other than communication to make his point known.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

By all means take the actions of Hai-Shalud as the actions of The Imperium and a declaration of war by The Imperium if you want. I can say right now I won't be removing him from The Imperium.

Personally... I d say such a position would be absurd. Anyone with half a brain-cell - including your own members - will know that when The Imperium goes to war we don't send in a lone 2million army size player to launch a attack on WR. So... good luck selling that one to your members about The Imperium declaring war.

I suspect both they, and Mujengen... would have a problem with WR/TOC essentially declaring war on TIE based on the actions of a single TIE member who's previously already attempted to contact yourself/WR to find a solution.

You do know he's already made contact with Mujengen and spoke to Lurant Maximus right? I don't know the details of what was discussed, or what was said or if anything was agreed... but at least Mujengen responded back promptly to his attempts at contact.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, essentially TIE's stance is this:

If Hai's contacted INDIVIDUALS who's farming him and they keep farming him ignoring his requests not to be farmed... and he then acts against THOSE individuals we ll treat it as a personal vendetta. As long as Hai keeps his retaliation to those who chose to ignore him... as far as TIE's concerned its a personal issue and should be kept as that - with TIE, WR or TOC itself remaining uninvolved.

Should WR involve themselves in such an event.. TIE will intervene against WR.

If Hai starts launching a vendetta against innocents who ve done nothing to him in either WR/ Mujengen... TIE will treat that as him being a fool. In such an event, provided you contact us beforehand (simply because "future events" haven't happened yet so noone knows what the details of the situation will be) and we give the go ahead... then you can retaliate as a alliance how you like.

It would, however, be up to TIE whether we keep him in it or not.... and if thats deemed a declaration of war by TIE on WR/TOC... then so be it.

One thing is certain however: Your telling me you ll take Hai's actions as a declaration of war by TIE if we refuse to remove him from TIE, is completely absurd. TIE won't be intimidated that easily.... so I must kindly inform you that we are fully 100% happy for you to carry out that threat and essentially declare war on TIE.

Such an action would result in little to no internal disputes in TIE. Such an action however would result in considerable internal disputes within TOC - people would say you started the war, and would not be happy at being asked to support a war of aggression....

Its your call either way.

Regards

Ian

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Awaiting Kenzu's response.

Next time ask me for permission to make private conversations public.
Where are your manners?

ian wrote:I spoke to Hai-Shalud and told him to back down under the understanding I wouldn't stop him going after Kenzu at a later date and declaring a 1 vs. 1

Given Kenzu's threats against The Imperium for the actions of a individual member even after TIE's made its stance clear (that if he masses innocent WR members we wouldn't intervene against a TOC counter-attack) and given he's already said he ll hold ALL of TIE accountable for the actions of that individual member with absolutely zero regard to the causes of those actions... then I have no issue with him declaring a 1 vs 1 at a later date against Kenzu.

It makes sense and seems right that a war is averted between TIE & TOC at the expense of Kenzu, when it was him who even made it a TIE vs. TOC situation by threatening to escalate it to include TIE when before it didn't include us.

So.... let there peace for a while, untill Kenzu's account gets lit up like a Christmas tree by Hai.

Its a good arrangement for WR... all those WR player's Kenzu claims to always represent and try to protect, will be left out of what could have been a very bloody situation - one made a lot worse by Kenzu's threats against TIE. If he's really the leader he claims to be - one who cares about his members... he won't have a problem with a 1 vs. 1 if it means saving his members from a war he chose to create.

If he hides behind the rest of TOC.... then it will expose him for the true leader he is. Either way... his true colours will be exposed sooner or later - the only question is what will those colours be?

WR standard policy to mass those, who mass our members.
It's nothing new and most alliances have this policy as well.

Obviously those who support the massers are often massed by the defending alliances, Imperium has done that previously as well.

Since ian promised that he and Imperium will not help Hai-Shulud at all, then I guess we could treat this as hostility of only one player, and not that of an alliance.

Conflicts are not sparked by those who don't do what they don't have to do. If I don't want to send an alliance wide message, then I will not send it. If this angers you, then it isn't me who is responsible for your anger, but you yourself.

Those who abandon treaties like the TOC-TIE farming policy, which has been signed to bring peace, are the ones who are sparking conflict, and not those who oppose abandoning such treaties.

Due to more work I have now, I won't be able to dedicate so much time to forum discussions anymore, but I should be able to respond to all messages within 24 hours, so contact me ingame if you need anything.

Kenzu, the above quoted bit is a complete load of crap. Yes we had a msn conversation, yes I said TIE probably wouldn't intervene should you hit back against Hai-Shalud, however I also made clear it would depend on the circumstances of the situation... and before you signed off msn told you the situation was still not solved as far as TIE was concerned.

You then message me ingame in response to my reply to your asking for compensation for a breach by stars - in which I told you I have no intention of arranging for compensation to WR when you ve stated you ll effectively declare war on TIE (financing someone who's planning war = really bad idea), I then responded back with the following:

Well, the situations not entirely solved just yet. You left before we could come to a proper solution. However, I have managed to find a solution for you.

https://aderanwars.forumotion.com/empire-wars-treaties-f3/personal-war-s-issue-t1939-30.htm#23679

See topic page 3.

Yet despite my saying TIE wouldn't intervene MOST of the time, depending on the circumstances, and then saying the solution is not solved... you come onto this thread and post something which I thought I d may clear to you was not what I was saying.

So... here it is again for the 4th or 5th time since you seem to forget it so happily:

If Hai-Shalud targets INNOCENT WR members (innocent being defined as those who did NOT hit him) then if WR counter-attacks TIE will *not* intervene.

If Hai-Shalud targets guilty WR members (Guilty being defined as being guilty of going something provocative to Hai I.e. farming him) and WR intervenes... TIE will eliminate your strike team.

I ve said it several times already, so once again will not hurt: Those who ignore another's player's request to be left alone knowing it may lead to that player resorting to force... are partly to blame for any resulting use of force. Logic being if they d left the person alone, force would not be used. If they hit someone, having been warned force may be used in response.. they hit knowing and therefore contributing/consenting to the risk.

This isn't to say the WR members are being unreasonable ignoring Hai's warnings.. its merely to say the WR players are doing something they know deemed to be provocative by another player, and therefore can't complain when they get targeted by Hai.

So... in summary:

If Hai goes after your members who haven't touched him, by all means counter-attack as a alliance and kill him. TIE won't intervene.

If Hai goes after your members who farmed him and kept farming him after being warned... you d better allow it to remain a Hai vs. Farmers affair, or otherwise if WR intervenes, it will become a WR vs. TIE affair.

Its really pretty simple. I m happy for war. TIE's happy for war. Hai's happy for war... the question is - is WR happy for war?

by Vesper Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:28 am

Kenzu wrote:
Next time ask me for permission to make private conversations public.
Where are your manners?

Coming from a guy that based a war off of a month old PM from ian that you were never given, I find this statement extremely ironic.

by buhcoreTheGreat Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:12 pm

speaking about manners, obviously Hai-Shalud, and everyone supporting him have no manners. Asking all the players on server to stop farming you is the stupidest thing ever, your insulting everyone with saying that.

I dont see how TIE can let this happen, Hai-Shalud is puting in danger all TIE members with his ("personal") threats but TIE obviously doesnt care, they support him.

You're giving me a damn good reason to mass you just to teach you some manners, maybe you will change your mind then and build a def or ask your mates for help before doing something stupid like this, i would do anything to make you a better person, because im peaceful and im willing to sacrifise my army to make you realize how stupid you are.
Best of luck

by seaborgium Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:42 pm

lol best of luck Buh
Better players then you have tried to teach hai a thing or 2.

by buhcoreTheGreat Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:51 pm

seaborgium wrote:lol best of luck Buh
Better players then you have tried to teach hai a thing or 2.

i will probably do a long term lesson, tbh im very bored and i need a toy to play with and i have a chance to change the world to a better one and keep myself busy, great isnt it?

by seaborgium Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:54 pm

buhcoreTheGreat wrote:
seaborgium wrote:lol best of luck Buh
Better players then you have tried to teach hai a thing or 2.

i will probably do a long term lesson, tbh im very bored and i need a toy to play with and i have a chance to change the world to a better one and keep myself busy, great isnt it?

Well when you put it that way I wish ya the best of luck. I doubt that you as a single player will be able to do much. I would high recommend that you post up a vendetta thread and that should keep TIE out of it. rabbit

by buhcoreTheGreat Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:01 pm

seaborgium wrote:
buhcoreTheGreat wrote:
seaborgium wrote:lol best of luck Buh
Better players then you have tried to teach hai a thing or 2.

i will probably do a long term lesson, tbh im very bored and i need a toy to play with and i have a chance to change the world to a better one and keep myself busy, great isnt it?

Well when you put it that way I wish ya the best of luck. I doubt that you as a single player will be able to do much. I would high recommend that you post up a vendetta thread and that should keep TIE out of it.

im not saying i will start massing him now or any other day, but if that happens im sure we can keep it 1v1 and have a lot of fun, thats what it matters in the end

by ian Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:31 pm

Buhcore, TIE doesn't support hais stance, all we support is his individual right to declare a personal vendetta without all of WR piling on him. As it is... kenzu is now threatening TIE with war due to our following the new policy and ignoring the old policy, with kenzu saying its not in affect yet due to LI not signing it etc... So honestly, at this point I don't mind Hai going after WR and bumping off WR members. It ll just make TIEs task easier when Kenzu declares war lol

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