New income unit

by Steveanaya Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:59 pm

We should have a new income unit that produces more kuwal than any other unit. This unit would be trainable only with healed units that have been wounded before. They could be called Veterans.

They should be indestructible and the best income unit available. Only small amounts would ever be trained unless you are one of those people who goes to war and ends up with 5m wounded.

Any thoughts?

by Manleva Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:16 pm

So, let me get this correct.

You are suggesting that Wounded Military Units be Trained as a new income unit once they are healed ad that they both indestructible and also earn more than any other income unit.

Ok, here's some questions then.

1. What is the reason for this suggestion?
2. Currently Healed units are automatically trained before UU. Are you looking to change this so that training of healed units is not automatic?
3. Training of healed units currently has no cost. Are you suggesting that they just be converted to a different unit type at no cost or that there should be a cost for retraining them?

As a thought, when thinking of Veteran's I generally associate this with one of two different scenarios. The first is that they are very experienced soldiers and the second is that they are retired Military Personal who while they may still work will also receive a pension

by Steveanaya Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:01 am

The reason for the suggestion is to improve the game.

Yes, I am looking to have the option to make it not automatic.

Training veterans should have a cost higher than training any other income unit as they produce more than any of them.

Since veterans are very experienced soldiers this should make them more productive and higher qualified to do better jobs-which is why they should earn more than just a miner with no qualifications.

Veterans would also encourage warfare in AW, a war game Smile

by Nomad Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:12 am

What price to train and what income are you thinking?

I personally think it gives waring accounts to much of an advantage, but with some more discussion I might see things differently.

by Steveanaya Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:19 am

Not exactly sure what the price to train/amount of income the make should be. Perhaps 15-25k to train, produce 80-100 kuwal per turn.

Perhaps only a % of healed units can be trained if it gives too much of an advantage?

by Gamniac Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:15 am

Steveanaya wrote:
Since veterans are very experienced soldiers this should make them more productive and higher qualified to do better jobs-which is why they should earn more than just a miner with no qualifications.

Except a miner knows when to get out of the mine (when the bird dies), or when a tunnel starts going bad, practical stuff like that.
A miner is qualified to be a miner.

You are talking about experienced Soldiers. Soldiering is what they're good at, it's what they (are) trained for.
How does that qualify them for working day jobs, like at a bank or a hospital? (no offense meant towards any actual Veterans out there)
If you could retrain them as higher grade soldiers, it would make more sense.

by Manleva Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:49 am

Steveanaya wrote:The reason for the suggestion is to improve the game.
How will this improve the game?

Veterans would also encourage warfare in AW, a war game
How will they do this?

by Nomad Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:45 pm

They would encourage war if you can get a better income out of it, or that's my thinking on it.

by kingkongfan1 Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:53 pm

Nomad wrote:They would encourage war if you can get a better income out of it, or that's my thinking on it.

not sure I am following your line of thinking, & I also am unsure as to how they will encourage war. sorry, I'm just not getting it.

by fivel Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:25 pm

kingkongfan1 wrote:
Nomad wrote:They would encourage war if you can get a better income out of it, or that's my thinking on it.

not sure I am following your line of thinking, & I also am unsure as to how they will encourage war. sorry, I'm just not getting it.

you can get wounded UU only by going to WAR, if you can get a higher income ONLY by going to war it's very simple to understand, idk why is people wondering HOW?

i see Steveanaya's point of view, but i also don't think this is a very good idea (already to many income units) - just my thoughts

by Gamniac Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:02 pm

fivel wrote:
kingkongfan1 wrote:
Nomad wrote:They would encourage war if you can get a better income out of it, or that's my thinking on it.

not sure I am following your line of thinking, & I also am unsure as to how they will encourage war. sorry, I'm just not getting it.

you can get wounded UU only by going to WAR, if you can get a higher income ONLY by going to war it's very simple to understand, idk why is people wondering HOW?
(...)

Or just giving your units really crappy weapons on purpose and having a buddy obliterate your entire armed force.
Then return the favor in a bid of common courtesy. Costs a couple of turns and you'll temporarily weaken yourself, but who cares?

This stuff might actually discourage war: the whole point of war is to hinder the opponent, not to boost his/her economy.
Plus, we'd be going bonkers from all the folks posting or PM-ing "Strike me down and I'll come back stronger" after being massed.

by kingkongfan1 Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:34 pm

Gamniac wrote:
fivel wrote:
kingkongfan1 wrote:
Nomad wrote:They would encourage war if you can get a better income out of it, or that's my thinking on it.

not sure I am following your line of thinking, & I also am unsure as to how they will encourage war. sorry, I'm just not getting it.

you can get wounded UU only by going to WAR, if you can get a higher income ONLY by going to war it's very simple to understand, idk why is people wondering HOW?
(...)

Or just giving your units really crappy weapons on purpose and having a buddy obliterate your entire armed force.
Then return the favor in a bid of common courtesy. Costs a couple of turns and you'll temporarily weaken yourself, but who cares?

This stuff might actually discourage war: the whole point of war is to hinder the opponent, not to boost his/her economy.
Plus, we'd be going bonkers from all the folks posting or PM-ing "Strike me down and I'll come back stronger" after being massed.

Exactly what I was thinking. I would never have thought to start a war with someone to get "wounded units", I'd have just had one or more T.M.I. members do as Gamniac says. that is why I couldn't see this encouraging war but that's the way I see it.

by Steveanaya Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:09 am

Veterans are better trained to do many jobs out there than others simply because they recognize discipline, hard work, and are generally more badass than everyone else.

I never considered that people could purposely get wounded to get better income units. Like I said, perhaps getting only a % of wounded as veterans would counter the problem. If it was say 25%, it would still cost 1m kuwal per veteran + other losses(turns, time, weapons, etc)

Perhaps making them destroyable(through natural death or something along those lines) would also counter the problem.

I thought it was pretty clear when Fivel said that going to war=getting wounded=getting veterans. It's an incentive for war. I really don't see how it could prevent war at all.

But hey, this is a suggestion thread where y'all are free to make your suggestions. If somehow this manages to get into the game then we will have improved the game by adding new content and a new element into the game. If you guys do not like my ideas, suggest ways to improve them. That's why we're all here right?

by Nomad Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:59 am

The way it would prevent war is by friendlies doing it over enemies, and to boot the cost would far outweigh the gains, because you would lose more men that could be used for normal income to gain a few of these specialized units.

I can't say I see any real benefit that can't be exploited presently..

by Keinutnai Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:14 pm

Steveanaya wrote:We should have a new income unit that produces more kuwal than any other unit. This unit would be trainable only with healed units that have been wounded before. They could be called Veterans.

They should be indestructible and the best income unit available. Only small amounts would ever be trained unless you are one of those people who goes to war and ends up with 5m wounded.

Any thoughts?

I am completely against this for obvious reasons!

For those who don't know the obvious reasons it's that this is extremely abusable.

Besides, I don't see a reason why war veterans which have been wounded so badly that they could not participate in the war for some time should become more productive in civil areas, than civilians. In real life I believe war veterans either are equally productive as civilians, but less productive than civilians who did the same job for their whole life as they will have less experience in that particular job.

by Steveanaya Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:30 pm

So then make them produce less kuwal?

by Keinutnai Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:54 am

Steveanaya wrote:So then make them produce less kuwal?

How much less?

Less than a farmer?

by Steveanaya Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:53 am

Maybe as much as a farmer? It's up to the playerbase to decide an unexploitable yet considerate value of how much kuwal these veterans should produce.

We wouldn't want to add an update that nobody would use, but we also wouldn't want to add an update that everybody would exploit.

Ultimately, it is up to admin to decide whether this would be an addition worth the coding. Idk how difficult it would be to code this, but if it can be added, and a majority demands it, then there's no doubt this should be a future update.

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