Compensation for massing dispute

World Republic currently requests 200% compensation for hostile attacks (massing). Same percentage as required by Marauders. Imperium does not state how much compensation they require for massing. Therefore I would like a clarification from Imperium regarding compensation for hostile missions.

Also I would like to know from Imperium if they will request only 100% compensation from World Republic in the case that a World Republic member masses them. If they do require only 100%, then World Republic will in turn also require only 100% compensation from Imperium for their hits on World Republic.
So what is Imperiums stance on this?

Other alliances are also invited to make such agreements with us.

Another interesting thing is that Curumo has informed me that he believes 200% is "extortion", but mentioned that he is ok to repay 120% for a massing that was recently made on a WR member. This opens up new questions, which should be resolved between TIE and TM, since Marauders also ask for 200%. How are Imperium and Marauders going to handle a case where Imperium masses a Marauder member? How much compensation will be paid?

If Imperium agrees on 100%, how much is Imperium going to ask from alliances other than World Republic?
Mujengan requires either 150% or 200%, how much will Imperium require from them?

Background:
This discussion is sparked by a recent event where Rukia (Imperium member) made an unprovoked attack on Karoline (World Republic member) assassinating and sabotaging her, killing 113.000 spies and assassins and destroying weapons worth 21.537.804.000 kuwal. This damage amounts to a total of 66.172.804.000 kuwal (at 350k uu price). World Republic has asked Imperium to pay and reminds them of their alliance responsibility. I hope we can resolve this issue peacefully.

WR really needs to come out and stand on there own 2 feet. You can't rely on others "stances" to make yours.

If you want 200% then demand it, give a time frame. If it isn't done then take out the offender and go from there.

If you want an agreement then work with the alliance and get it hammered out.

As I said to you the other day Kenzu, when you asked why TM had gone hidden. Our business is ours. It is none of your concern.

Our goal is not as simple as you might think. While for some alliances policymaking might be as simple as determining a number and then holding on it no matter what, we prefer to guide the server towards common policies. Each alliance having conflicting policies is counter productive. We strive towards standardization of policies.

For us, it is less important whether compensation is 100% or 200%, what's more important for us is that all alliances use the same value. Surely it isn't an easy task to achieve, but it's worth trying. You will agree that there has been a lot of success already. Alliances have agreed to things such as alliance responsibility, very similar farming policies, similar code of conduct and also the server has achieved to determine uu prices, which all major alliances use. We are still far from a perfect world, but we are getting there slowly.

Al polices being equal = dead boring game as noone will step out on there own

Sorry for the late reply Keinutnai.

Yes Curumo does consider 200 % extortion and there is no way in hell he or anyone in TIE is paying that much. But this is my take on the situation and one I know Ian shares.

We don't really care how much other alliances charge for this - all I know is this:
If you mass one of our guys unprovoked one of two things will happen:
- You pay for the damages in full,
- You face war,
depending on various factors (who made the hits, why, when, lotsa little information...).

Now we agree to pay damages for unprovoked massings. 100 % of the damages. Anything above that would be (in my opinion) unneccessary.

As for what other alliances deem is the right way for them to do things in such a situation - that is their business entirely and TIE won't try to change that. We don't think that's our place, if I may be so blunt.

So, as the 2IC of TIE I sign this on our behalf, effective immediately. Unless of course Ian comes here and says no. Then it's as he will say

curumo wrote:Sorry for the late reply Keinutnai.

Yes Curumo does consider 200 % extortion and there is no way in hell he or anyone in TIE is paying that much. But this is my take on the situation and one I know Ian shares.

We don't really care how much other alliances charge for this - all I know is this:
If you mass one of our guys unprovoked one of two things will happen:
- You pay for the damages in full,
- You face war,
depending on various factors (who made the hits, why, when, lotsa little information...).

Now we agree to pay damages for unprovoked massings. 100 % of the damages. Anything above that would be (in my opinion) unneccessary.

As for what other alliances deem is the right way for them to do things in such a situation - that is their business entirely and TIE won't try to change that. We don't think that's our place, if I may be so blunt.

So, as the 2IC of TIE I sign this on our behalf, effective immediately. Unless of course Ian comes here and says no. Then it's as he will say

Ok, thanks!

curumo wrote:Sorry for the late reply Keinutnai.

Yes Curumo does consider 200 % extortion and there is no way in hell he or anyone in TIE is paying that much. But this is my take on the situation and one I know Ian shares.

We don't really care how much other alliances charge for this - all I know is this:
If you mass one of our guys unprovoked one of two things will happen:
- You pay for the damages in full,
- You face war,
depending on various factors (who made the hits, why, when, lotsa little information...).

Now we agree to pay damages for unprovoked massings. 100 % of the damages. Anything above that would be (in my opinion) unneccessary.

As for what other alliances deem is the right way for them to do things in such a situation - that is their business entirely and TIE won't try to change that. We don't think that's our place, if I may be so blunt.

So, as the 2IC of TIE I sign this on our behalf, effective immediately. Unless of course Ian comes here and says no. Then it's as he will say

I actually disagree with you on the point that charging more than 100% compensation for the damages is unnecessary, it's necessary because you have wasted time and effort of that player by massing them, and also (in some cases) have lowered their income for a considerable amount of time which they will never regain. So I think that charging more than 100% compensation is, in fact, necessary.

Wasting resources to destroy resources that you have to pay back is enough really.

Steveanaya wrote:Wasting resources to destroy resources that you have to pay back is enough really.

The primary point of charging more then 100% is to deter people from doing it.

One question: Why is WR asking for compensation for an inactive player being massed? 225k uu out is a good indication of an inactive player, considering it's obvious that WR is collecting them. AND it's well known that WR used to mass their own inactives for uu, so why the big show here?

it was a farm hit that Karoline has reported. It would have been impossible for her to report a farm hit if she was inactive right?

I have sometimes more uu out, that doesnt mean that I am inactive.

I know of a player that had 700k UU out
6k ats
semi large amounts of kuwal out.
I know he wasn't inactive as I messaged him and asked his CO.

Well, if the broker is sent and she is active, she will accept it. I guess that will tell...

225k UU out means you're inactive? Bull. I leave over 400k UU out sometimes for the fun of it and I almost always have about 5k AT when not in war.

necromancy?

resurrection

Smog wrote:Well, if the broker is sent and she is active, she will accept it. I guess that will tell...

Just curious, was it accepted?

All I know is this: moments before being mass-raided she left WR by miracle. Unless she was kicked out and massed by WR itself, which I find highly improbable. NOT
That would not be the first nor last case in which WR masses it's members, or former members.

Nomad wrote:

Smog wrote:Well, if the broker is sent and she is active, she will accept it. I guess that will tell...

Just curious, was it accepted?

Sure it was. You haven't noticed a war between WR and Imperium, have you? Already back then, when there was this tension, our members have been put on alert as there was the possibility that Imperium will not want to pay and then an alliance war would brake out. Compensation has been paid and so the war was prevented. Paying 63 billion kuwal is better than losing 5 trillion. Everyone knows that!

(except Mujengan)

Well, I know more people who are willing to step on their dignity just to avoid a war.

Smog wrote:Well, I know more people who are willing to step on their dignity just to avoid a war.

Respecting the policies of others is not a step on dignity, but a sign of virtue. It is the disrespect of others that is wrong and immoral.

Curumo has shown that he is a man of his word, respecting others. That's why he is respected himself.

On the other hand people, who disrespect others, and instead of being rational hold on to their stubbornness at all costs, are those who make more and more enemies and will eventually fall.

All policies demand compensation for non profitable farming and raiding with the threat of massing for non payment.

Only players with SS can pay compensation. So the question would be where in these policies is there respect shown for players without SS?

Manleva if that's the case you work out some other deal Someone steps in for you, you do something for that person ...

Farming policies only take incoming attacks into account. So basically if you get attacked by someone it doesn't matter if you have SS or not. You can still be sent brokers

Now if you do not have SS and want to farm then do some math and your problems will be solved.

As for the farming policies in general - I would agree that respecting them is important, otherwise there is no point in having them and they are just an excuse to war against those who would want your kuwal ...

And Keinutnai - thanks for the compliment

Only attacker needs SS, because you don't need SS to receive resources.

If you are an attacker without SS, then you either make sure that you don't make bad hits, have a friend who will pay for you, or if there is no one and you made a bad hit, you try to work out a deal.

If all fails, then you will face massing, but you are already prepared for it, because you knew the risk before you started farming.

Keinutnai wrote:

Smog wrote:Well, I know more people who are willing to step on their dignity just to avoid a war.

Respecting the policies of others is not a step on dignity, but a sign of virtue. It is the disrespect of others that is wrong and immoral.

Curumo has shown that he is a man of his word, respecting others. That's why he is respected himself.

On the other hand people, who disrespect others, and instead of being rational hold on to their stubbornness at all costs, are those who make more and more enemies and will eventually fall.

Do you deny mass-raiding Karoline with Sara? This was about you keeping inactives in WR so YOU can mass-raid them.
There was someone else from WR and I can't remember his name. There is a killer story with him too... Sara massing him while he was still in WR for his almost 1 million uu and getting nothing. What was his name? Kenzu, you must remember it.