VIS has joined World Republic (after kos massed redblulu and TM refused to pay)

by Keinutnai Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:54 pm

After redblulu from VIS has been massed by kingofshinobis from The Marauders. Sara, leader of VIS has asked seaborgium to pay compensation.

The damage kingofshinobis has caused is equal to 332 billion kuwal and 1,254,389 uu, or simply in kuwal: 677 billion (confirmed by seaborgium)

This is the 7 day average of AT
1 Attack Turn = 31,223,287 Kuwal

In terms of AT it is: 21.682 AT

seaborgium said that kingofshinobis doesn't want to pay, and seaborgium didn't pay compensation either.
In addition to not paying, he also started protecting kingofshinobis making threats that if anyone except VIS (for example WR) masses kingofshinobis, then Marauders would go to war against those who enforce the compensation policy.

Seing that TM doesn't treat smaller alliances the same way it requires others to treat TM, and in order to prevent bullying in the future, Sara has decided that it will be the best if VIS joins World Republic.
Now, members of VIS have been fully incorporated into World Republic.

There is more interesting development, namely Donttazeme has left TM and told me that he left because TM was looking for reasons to start a war against World Republic, and unable to find a proper reason kingofshinobis has decided to mass redblulu and not want to pay compensation, and will be backed by TM so that when WR masses kingofshinobis for braking the policy and not paying, then TM would start a war.
Here a quote of donttazeme's forum post

donttazeme wrote:so ive been quiet this whole time, but now i will state my side

according to jook and seaborgium, s baashe spoke to jook at 1:14 on april 21st and s baashe left me @ 1:21. This, coupled with the fact that s baashe could not have seen jook on bulletin board, because he was not on it, lead me to believe that jook had spoken to baashe, and convinced him to join him. I was a previous TM member, left on pretty good terms, id like to think, and left for reasons of the fact that i felt that the vision that TM had promised me did not line up with their actions. To be a part of that family and have them do things i didnt like.. i couldnt stay there.

im still not fully convinced that this even went down the way jook has said. in any case, i felt betrayed by the people i had worked with for months. And their actions since then led me to believe the same. my only communications with TM have been to accuse jook of convincing or even accepting officers that he new were currently under my commandship. My problems with Jook end at that. he didnt attack me or sab me at all, and our war was done. Yet, seemingly, other TM members acted less then how they wish to come off as. KoS violated TM's own policy, AGAIN(one of the reasons i left was KoS massing of redblulu and his plan to mass all of vis, and TM backing KoS if WR got involved, with TM knowing vis and wr had a full pact. while TM had decided after not to back KoS if vis was massed by KoS first, this situation coupled with the actions of TM earlier led me to believe that while TM sat and accused Kenzu of violating policies and such, TM is willing to twist any situation into war, even if its not necesary, all the while sitting atop their high horses thinking they are better then everyone else. Meanwhile, more then half of TM sits angrily that they didnt get to mass Kenzu properly last time, which was why the war went as long as it did, and why TM joined in the first place. Its all an excuse to just fight WR hidden behind bad, twisted reasoning). KoS tried to sneakily sabotage me in the hopes that i wouldnt be able to see who it was. lowly and shoddy behaviour at best, for this breaks even TM's own personal war policy. Secondly, seaborgium's less then leader-like attempt at entering a situation that does no longer pertain him the second Jook had declared personal war, coupled with the fact of him bringing my wife into this situation, a situation she is not a part of, just shows his true character.

so be it. this situation was hardly about s baashe, but instead abotu a former alliance member, who was a brother of sorts to me in this game, along with all of TM. It was never about property of officers or other nonsense(for everyone has free will), it was about at least having some sort of responsibility for your actions. THe last people i thought id be recieiving this treatment from was from TM, and here i sit, while one seemingly talks to my officers[which is ironic because of TM's "no speaking to anyone but leadership's stance on things], another member tries to secretly attack and sabotage me under the guise of a personal war of jook, and another is here bringing up my wife.

and at the end of it all, all TM has managed to accomplish is convince me that leaving was a good decision, and making me wish i had done it sooner

Now I would like to know from seaborgium, why did you want WR to take full responsibility for its members, and why did you say that Marauders take full responsibility for their members, if you didn't take responsibility and didnt pay for the damage kingofshinobis has caused?

Are you planning to finally take responsibility for the damage your member has caused and pay compensation?

Do you still expect others to take responsiblity for their members?

Is it true that you are looking for a reason to start a war?

by seaborgium Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:11 pm

1. We worked with VIS to find the cost, We gave Kos that cost.
He decided not to pay. It was up to VIS the allinace that KoS had offended to deal with him. We wouldn't have helped him in anyway. He wanted to mass VIS before hand, we told him that if he did that then he would be on his own no matter who joined.
The only defending we did was against outside alliances from joining.
2. We had taken responsibility for what KoS did. We may not have repayed, however unlike the Muj issue where that player had quit. Ours was willing to be massed for the action.
3. TM as a group won't be paying for the actions of a player who is still actively playing and refused to pay and has "offered" to pay by being massed.
4. I am sure I covered the war part in the other thread.
5. The avg 7 day price you listed is a bit off compared to when this happened as Ats where lower costing. nice way to bring this up 20 days after it happened.
I know Sara had to have said something to you by now.

before you think about mentioning it. No TM current build up of stats is not for war, as I told you in the PM, some are working on ranks for awards, others are working on other awards, and some are working to stop being hit.

by Nimras Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:13 pm

Keinutnai wrote:There is more interesting development, namely Donttazeme has left TM and told me that he left because TM was looking for reasons to start a war against World Republic, and unable to find a proper reason kingofshinobis has decided to mass redblulu and not want to pay compensation, and will be backed by TM so that when WR masses kingofshinobis for braking the policy and not paying, then TM would start a war.
Here a quote of donttazeme's forum post

No offense Kenzu but Taze doese not one single place say KoS massed red to force a war with WR.

And i can say that TM did not use the incident to go to war with WR. We only said if KoS mass VIS first then we will not defend him against actions from WR where as if VIS massed first we would.

This I can confirm and I can also say that this is how it would have stayed.

Nimras
Diplomat of TM and less than proud to be a TM member right now

by Kingofshinobis1 Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:31 am

Nimras wrote:
Keinutnai wrote:There is more interesting development, namely Donttazeme has left TM and told me that he left because TM was looking for reasons to start a war against World Republic, and unable to find a proper reason kingofshinobis has decided to mass redblulu and not want to pay compensation, and will be backed by TM so that when WR masses kingofshinobis for braking the policy and not paying, then TM would start a war.
Here a quote of donttazeme's forum post

No offense Kenzu but Taze doese not one single place say KoS massed red to force a war with WR.

And i can say that TM did not use the incident to go to war with WR. We only said if KoS mass VIS first then we will not defend him against actions from WR where as if VIS massed first we would.

This I can confirm and I can also say that this is how it would have stayed.

Nimras
Diplomat of TM and less than proud to be a TM member right now

I think you meant to say "where as if WR massed first we would". I think

by donttazeme Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:24 am

alright nimras. i completly agree with your post, except for one small, missing, bit of information,which may be irrelevant, but...

dive into that thread in your forums if you must, but if you do, you will see that sea wanted to back KOS either way, whether or not KoS attacked first.

youll also see a post from sea along the lines of.. after speaking with donttazeme, ive changed my mind, and feel we shouldnt back KoS if he masses first.

but yea. this kos redblulu situation was just an unintelligent action by KoS. he shoulda declared a personal war. woulda saved us all this trouble really....

but in no way was his actions to lure WR into a war. instead, as sea posted in other forums... (many TM want to smack around WR). dive more into that thread nimras and you will see numerous posts along the lines of.. i dont care what happens, i just wanna mass kenzu, or attack WR...i just wanna war them...etc... from various members of TM...

so yes.. they instead took this opportunity to actually begin preparing for a war, and wanting it. im not sure of any official vote, but i know that ONLY 2 people felt the same way i did when i left TM. thats 2/21 members who didnt agree with this policy, meaning had this gone to vote, it would have meant a clearcut war

by Kingofshinobis1 Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:06 am

donttazeme wrote:alright nimras. i completly agree with your post, except for one small, missing, bit of information,which may be irrelevant, but...

dive into that thread in your forums if you must, but if you do, you will see that sea wanted to back KOS either way, whether or not KoS attacked first.
obviously sea wants to protect everyone in TM regardless of what happens. i guess you would just leave your alliance out to dry then.

youll also see a post from sea along the lines of.. after speaking with donttazeme, ive changed my mind, and feel we shouldnt back KoS if he masses first.
changing seas mind. thats hard to do . im impressed. i think im even going to have to do some digging for this one

but yea. this kos redblulu situation was just an unintelligent action by KoS. he shoulda declared a personal war. woulda saved us all this trouble really....
do you honestly believe me declaring a personal war wouldve solved everything? and you say i'm the unintelligent one

but in no way was his actions to lure WR into a war. instead, as sea posted in other forums... (many TM want to smack around WR). dive more into that thread nimras and you will see numerous posts along the lines of.. i dont care what happens, i just wanna mass kenzu, or attack WR...i just wanna war them...etc... from various members of TM...
i can say i am going to be the next president of the united states of america but unless it happens then im just ranting. regardless I believe these were all petty jokes if I remember correctly. Not an actual vote for war.

so yes.. they instead took this opportunity to actually begin preparing for a war, and wanting it. im not sure of any official vote, but i know that ONLY 2 people felt the same way i did when i left TM. thats 2/21 members who didnt agree with this policy, meaning had this gone to vote, it would have meant a clearcut war
prepping how? you take advantage of our increased power and claim it is because we were prepping for war? one tract mind. i knew it.

i believe the main point here is there is a difference between wanting and doing Razz

. If we wanted war there would be war. Its that simple.

by seaborgium Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:33 am

Here is my first post after posting the hits and giving KoS a lecture.

Seaborgium wrote:TM isn't going to war.
KoS is going. He is refusing to pay. He knows that he will be massed. So he is going start on them.
I won't protect him from VIS, however as an allinace we will step in if WR jumps in.
So we are taking responsibility for our member as we won't help with VIS. This issue is between KoS and VIS. It will stay that way.
BTW KoS I would strongly suggest you pay them, as you can see ya did do wrong.

here is the post that Taze is talking abuot KoS, you had said something about massing them.

Seaborgium wrote:After talking with donttazeme I got thinking about it. If VIS hits KoS FIRST. Then he responds and then WR steps in we will defend him. If KoS hits FIRST, then that is something that we can't help with as everyone knows that VIS and WR have a Full Pact.

I love this line

donttazeme wrote:but yea. this kos redblulu situation was just an unintelligent action by KoS. he shoulda declared a personal war. woulda saved us all this trouble really....

Well to a point yes, Had he done that he would have had the full backing of the allinace. I do love the first part of that line.
I am sure if you read this post it talks about WR
https://aderanwars.forumotion.com/t2386p30-jookaremo-vs-dont-taze-me#30011
As I said there, I won't hide that a few people in TM don't like Kenzu and would love to smack him around. As KoS pointed out there is a difference between wanting and doing.

Most people who look at TM and compare stats they had to now will find that it was mostly Def and a little covert/assn powers that have gone up. Also some techs. You can't also rule out the lot of PBP that were given out with in the last 2 weeks roughly.

by Keinutnai Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:45 am

Seaborgium, are ok if TOC will mass kingofshinobis for refusing to pay compensation and Marauders alliance will not get involved at all?
Do I have your word that when we mass him Marauders will not intervene?

Or do you want to continue to protect kingofshinobis even though he massed a member of TOC?

by Nimras Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:48 pm

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:
Nimras wrote:
Keinutnai wrote:There is more interesting development, namely Donttazeme has left TM and told me that he left because TM was looking for reasons to start a war against World Republic, and unable to find a proper reason kingofshinobis has decided to mass redblulu and not want to pay compensation, and will be backed by TM so that when WR masses kingofshinobis for braking the policy and not paying, then TM would start a war.
Here a quote of donttazeme's forum post

No offense Kenzu but Taze doese not one single place say KoS massed red to force a war with WR.

And i can say that TM did not use the incident to go to war with WR. We only said if KoS mass VIS first then we will not defend him against actions from WR where as if VIS massed first we would.

This I can confirm and I can also say that this is how it would have stayed.

Nimras
Diplomat of TM and less than proud to be a TM member right now

I think you meant to say "where as if WR massed first we would". I think

Lol yes sorry the end of the line should have been:

Nimras wrote:And i can say that TM did not use the incident to go to war with WR. We only said if KoS mass VIS first then we will not defend him against actions from WR where as if VIS massed first we would.

This is how it should have looked:

Nimras wrote:And i can say that TM did not use the incident to go to war with WR. We only said if KoS mass VIS first then we will not defend him against actions from WR, where as if VIS massed KoS first then we would have defended KoS against action done by WR.

donttazeme wrote:alright nimras. i completly agree with your post, except for one small, missing, bit of information,which may be irrelevant, but...

Missing information as far i know nothing was missing in my response as the response was about a little thing if i dived deeper into it then you would have been right

dive into that thread in your forums if you must, but if you do, you will see that sea wanted to back KOS either way, whether or not KoS attacked first.

No offense Taze i back you up on alot of what you wrote and i aren't proud of what TM allowed KoS to do nor am i Proud of the reasons to deffend him or should I say allow him to take a massing either but Sea did not want to back KoS up either way until you 2 spoke. Sea was answering questions regarding the issue and it was until you 2 speak he actually realised how you and a few others saw it but also how they thought he came off as if he defended him. I know Sea and even tho me and him do not see Eye to Eye every time and even tho i sometimes is a paine in his ass because i take the discutions. Did i never read his post as he triede to Back KoS either way but rather was answering questions and therefore sounded like that. But I can understand why you felt and saw it different.

youll also see a post from sea along the lines of.. after speaking with donttazeme, ive changed my mind, and feel we shouldnt back KoS if he masses first.

Yes we did and thats life.

but yea. this kos redblulu situation was just an unintelligent action by KoS. he shoulda declared a personal war. woulda saved us all this trouble really....

Well not really it was KoS being KoS, this is how KoS is and always will be. Not unintelligent just a war monger who love to well mass. And yes he should have done a 1 vs 1 and should have payed up but he didn't I can't force him to pay as its not my account nor am i the leader of TM. But I do not condole either what he did nor do I condole TM allows a massing instead of honouring our own word and policy and payed up.

but in no way was his actions to lure WR into a war. instead, as sea posted in other forums... (many TM want to smack around WR). dive more into that thread nimras and you will see numerous posts along the lines of.. i dont care what happens, i just wanna mass kenzu, or attack WR...i just wanna war them...etc... from various members of TM...

Yes many in TM not all still have grudges and some just love war and don't care who it is they war they just want one. I do not dispute that either its a fact its true. But we didn't do it either TM still has enough honor not to use grudges or hatred for a war. We only war if there is a honorfull reason and the day we do not that day will i not be in TM anymore.

so yes.. they instead took this opportunity to actually begin preparing for a war, and wanting it. im not sure of any official vote, but i know that ONLY 2 people felt the same way i did when i left TM. thats 2/21 members who didnt agree with this policy, meaning had this gone to vote, it would have meant a clearcut war

I am against it but Taze there was NO vote because WE would not go to war. Unless WR massed KoS instead of VIS or if WR jumped on KoS when he massed back after VIS massed him. Basicly it was already desided. TM do not WAR VIS nor WR if KoS mass first. TM only war WR if WR help VIS in massing KoS or waring him. If VIS desided to war or mass KoS then we would allow it if WR jumped we would war WR beside that if it stayed VIS vs KoS we would do nothing.

I do not agree on this as i still think KoS should pay for his action I also made it clear even if WR jump on KoS to help VIS would I not fight WR as i still think KoS deserves it and I stand by that now because VIS has disbanded have they brought it on them self to not be able to mass him or get payed.

We where not Prepping either

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:
donttazeme wrote:alright nimras. i completly agree with your post, except for one small, missing, bit of information,which may be irrelevant, but...

dive into that thread in your forums if you must, but if you do, you will see that sea wanted to back KOS either way, whether or not KoS attacked first.
obviously sea wants to protect everyone in TM regardless of what happens. i guess you would just leave your alliance out to dry then.
KoS Sea did indeed protect TM but your last part of your answer is harsh heck then I am leaving TM out to dry because i will not fight WR or VIS because of your ignorance and bad behavour?

youll also see a post from sea along the lines of.. after speaking with donttazeme, ive changed my mind, and feel we shouldnt back KoS if he masses first.
changing seas mind. thats hard to do . im impressed. i think im even going to have to do some digging for this one
Why dig Sea post proves it and I can confirm most of what he says here jesus KoS.

but yea. this kos redblulu situation was just an unintelligent action by KoS. he shoulda declared a personal war. woulda saved us all this trouble really....
do you honestly believe me declaring a personal war wouldve solved everything? and you say i'm the unintelligent one
M8 had you declared 1 vs 1 from START then your action hostile as they may would have been covered by not only TM policy but also by VIS. Not only that VIS and WR could not help red and even I would stand behind you if anything happen. Instead you did the opposit and your answer proves him right sadly for you.

but in no way was his actions to lure WR into a war. instead, as sea posted in other forums... (many TM want to smack around WR). dive more into that thread nimras and you will see numerous posts along the lines of.. i dont care what happens, i just wanna mass kenzu, or attack WR...i just wanna war them...etc... from various members of TM...
i can say i am going to be the next president of the united states of america but unless it happens then im just ranting. regardless I believe these were all petty jokes if I remember correctly. Not an actual vote for war.
There was no Vote and they where not Jokes either KoS your still not helping your self.

so yes.. they instead took this opportunity to actually begin preparing for a war, and wanting it. im not sure of any official vote, but i know that ONLY 2 people felt the same way i did when i left TM. thats 2/21 members who didnt agree with this policy, meaning had this gone to vote, it would have meant a clearcut war
prepping how? you take advantage of our increased power and claim it is because we were prepping for war? one tract mind. i knew it.
lol KoS every alliance is one tacked everyone think the other is prepping for war just look at TIE vs ToC a few times lol.

i believe the main point here is there is a difference between wanting and doing . If we wanted war there would be war. Its that simple.

KoS your not helping.

Keinutnai wrote:Seaborgium, are ok if TOC will mass kingofshinobis for refusing to pay compensation and Marauders alliance will not get involved at all?
Do I have your word that when we mass him Marauders will not intervene?

Or do you want to continue to protect kingofshinobis even though he massed a member of TOC?

M8 no offense but WR has no RIGHT to MASS KoS, neither doese TOC.

VIS had the right to mass but they forfitted that RIGHT when they disbanded and joined WR.

Red is also inactive now meaning its over.

Ohh and Kenzu I do not like to Deffend KoS for his action and i hate he didn't PAY but that doese not remove 1 basic thing which even I can't run from. The action was done to a VIS member removing your TOC right. VIS did not mass back instead they disbanded.

As much as i still think KoS deserve a massing for not paying back and even more should have payed back. Is there nothing more you can demand in this case its OVER.

I am sorry Kenzu but even my own Creed, Code, Rules and Laws as a Viking the very rules I left WR over the same rules that means i would not have backed KoS if WR jumped him and the rest of TM would jump to war with WR only while KoS had VIS alone and WR with TM. These very same thing also is clear. The party who had a right to demand the head of the agressor did not take it. The party is death and no more. The few alive joined another alliance but that doese not give the new alliance/party the rights to take over where the other failed.

VIS Failed thats KoS advantage sadly I was rooting for VIS on this one.

by seaborgium Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:10 pm

I think nimras covered 90% of it, the only thing missed is the fact that it happened 21 days ago. IF TOC well I guess I can't say TOC as WR is the only people anymore. IF WR moves against KoS then it will be a full war.

Nimras wrote:VIS Failed thats KoS advantage sadly I was rooting for VIS on this one.

Shh so was I Laughing

by kingkongfan1 Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:30 pm

Keinutnai wrote:Seaborgium, are ok if TOC will mass kingofshinobis for refusing to pay compensation and Marauders alliance will not get involved at all?
Do I have your word that when we mass him Marauders will not intervene?

Or do you want to continue to protect kingofshinobis even though he massed a member of TOC?

I am not Seaborgium, but as acting 2ic & Marauders HC member I can tell you that this will not be allowed for the following reasons...

1) This was a matter concerning KoS & Vis. Vis was notified that KoS had refused payment, & instead had chosen to be massed by Vis, Vis chose to disband rather than mass KoS therefore their claim to KoS became null & void, thus ending the situation...

2) Redblulu became & is now an inactive player, the acct has been stripped of all resources...

but the most important reason is...

3) Redblulu is not now, nor at the time was he a member of World Republic, you have no claim whatsoever...

4) If World Republic does decide to mass KoS, it will not bode well for you... as I said before, World Republic has no claim here,

that being said I would like to add the following...

the vote to mass kenzu that Donttazeme is refering to, was in response to kenzu's blatant abuse & misuse of his forum moderator abilities concerning the wrongful banning of Nomad... not as taze would have everyone believe that it was about the KoS/Redblulu hit...

by donttazeme Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:46 pm

where did i ever mention the vote to mass kenzu?
scan through my posts and quote me. id love to see it

by Nimras Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:55 pm

kingkongfan1 wrote:that being said I would like to add the following...

the vote to mass kenzu that Donttazeme is refering to, was in response to kenzu's blatant abuse & misuse of his forum moderator abilities concerning the wrongful banning of Nomad... not as taze would have everyone believe that it was about the KoS/Redblulu hit...

M8 please read before posting and even worse post something never mentioned lol.

1. Taze never said this.
2. Sea never said this.
3. I never said this.
4. KoS never said this.

This is the first time this info is out.

taze actually said he doese not KNOW if there was a Vote for WAR with WR in regard to KoS vs Red.

Not only that he even confirms what i said earlier about KoS did not mass red for a war everyone confirmed this.

by seaborgium Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:59 pm

I did see where he tried to link the hate/dislike in that topic to the red/KoS item. IE TM is backing KoS as to get a chance to mass WR/Kenzu.

I do agree with Taze there was nothing directly saying there was a vote to mass Kenzu/WR due to the red/KoS thing.

by Nimras Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:03 pm

seaborgium wrote:I did see where he tried to link the hate/dislike in that topic to the red/KoS item. IE TM is backing KoS as to get a chance to mass WR/Kenzu.

I do agree with Taze there was nothing directly saying there was a vote to mass Kenzu/WR due to the red/KoS thing.

True but it was true some people feelings and hatred towards Kenzu and WR made them post what they feelt that WR jumped so they could fight WR.

So his link is not wrong where it goese bad is the fact TM would not back KoS if he massed first only if VIS massed and if WR helped then TM would fight WR. That a few people hoped for this is sadly also true.

Anyway thats life.

by Paladius Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:47 pm

donttazeme wrote:
scan through my posts and quote me. id love to see it

Do you have to be so sarcastic?

by Kingofshinobis1 Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:52 pm

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:
donttazeme wrote:alright nimras. i completly agree with your post, except for one small, missing, bit of information,which may be irrelevant, but...

dive into that thread in your forums if you must, but if you do, you will see that sea wanted to back KOS either way, whether or not KoS attacked first.
obviously sea wants to protect everyone in TM regardless of what happens. i guess you would just leave your alliance out to dry then.
KoS Sea did indeed protect TM but your last part of your answer is harsh heck then I am leaving TM out to dry because i will not fight WR or VIS because of your ignorance and bad behavour?

youll also see a post from sea along the lines of.. after speaking with donttazeme, ive changed my mind, and feel we shouldnt back KoS if he masses first.
changing seas mind. thats hard to do . im impressed. i think im even going to have to do some digging for this one
Why dig Sea post proves it and I can confirm most of what he says here jesus KoS.
I was kidding nimras

but yea. this kos redblulu situation was just an unintelligent action by KoS. he shoulda declared a personal war. woulda saved us all this trouble really....
do you honestly believe me declaring a personal war wouldve solved everything? and you say i'm the unintelligent one
M8 had you declared 1 vs 1 from START then your action hostile as they may would have been covered by not only TM policy but also by VIS. Not only that VIS and WR could not help red and even I would stand behind you if anything happen. Instead you did the opposit and your answer proves him right sadly for you.
just because I declare a one on one and mass someone does not mean I did it properly. what happens if it gets refused? It means nothing. I already knew he would not accept because I knew how he was. I just decided to do it more sneakily

but in no way was his actions to lure WR into a war. instead, as sea posted in other forums... (many TM want to smack around WR). dive more into that thread nimras and you will see numerous posts along the lines of.. i dont care what happens, i just wanna mass kenzu, or attack WR...i just wanna war them...etc... from various members of TM...
i can say i am going to be the next president of the united states of america but unless it happens then im just ranting. regardless I believe these were all petty jokes if I remember correctly. Not an actual vote for war.
There was no Vote and they where not Jokes either KoS your still not helping your self.
They were poking at him about warring. Do I need to quote some of the posts? They were rants. No vote. Just releasing some anger as far as I can tell

so yes.. they instead took this opportunity to actually begin preparing for a war, and wanting it. im not sure of any official vote, but i know that ONLY 2 people felt the same way i did when i left TM. thats 2/21 members who didnt agree with this policy, meaning had this gone to vote, it would have meant a clearcut war
prepping how? you take advantage of our increased power and claim it is because we were prepping for war? one tract mind. i knew it.
lol KoS every alliance is one tacked everyone think the other is prepping for war just look at TIE vs ToC a few times lol.
haha i agree with you nimras. once again my post was more of a joke towards taze

i believe the main point here is there is a difference between wanting and doing . If we wanted war there would be war. Its that simple.

KoS your not helping.
I can't help it if i speak the truth Razz

by ian Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:41 pm

Damn... and too think I remember when (other) people's posts were very small once upon a time Shocked

Regarding this matter... just incase by chance it should end up a WR vs. TM affair, and then Mujengan decides for whatever reason to make it a WR & Mujengan vs. TM affair... I would caution against such an escalation, since that would result in a further additional escalation.

Other than that... I have no comment on this matter. Have fun with all the arguing (otherwise known as diplomacy)... and remember, if it comes to war... keep it clean Very Happy

by Nimras Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:05 pm

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:
Kingofshinobis1 wrote:
donttazeme wrote:alright nimras. i completly agree with your post, except for one small, missing, bit of information,which may be irrelevant, but...

dive into that thread in your forums if you must, but if you do, you will see that sea wanted to back KOS either way, whether or not KoS attacked first.
obviously sea wants to protect everyone in TM regardless of what happens. i guess you would just leave your alliance out to dry then.
KoS Sea did indeed protect TM but your last part of your answer is harsh heck then I am leaving TM out to dry because i will not fight WR or VIS because of your ignorance and bad behavour?

youll also see a post from sea along the lines of.. after speaking with donttazeme, ive changed my mind, and feel we shouldnt back KoS if he masses first.
changing seas mind. thats hard to do . im impressed. i think im even going to have to do some digging for this one
Why dig Sea post proves it and I can confirm most of what he says here jesus KoS.
I was kidding nimras
Hehe maybe but not the right time

but yea. this kos redblulu situation was just an unintelligent action by KoS. he shoulda declared a personal war. woulda saved us all this trouble really....
do you honestly believe me declaring a personal war wouldve solved everything? and you say i'm the unintelligent one
M8 had you declared 1 vs 1 from START then your action hostile as they may would have been covered by not only TM policy but also by VIS. Not only that VIS and WR could not help red and even I would stand behind you if anything happen. Instead you did the opposit and your answer proves him right sadly for you.
just because I declare a one on one and mass someone does not mean I did it properly. what happens if it gets refused? It means nothing. I already knew he would not accept because I knew how he was. I just decided to do it more sneakily
M8 had he not accepted and VIS or WR joined or done anything then I and everyone in TM would have backed you up and the server would to. Unless your post just was 1 vs 1 because I can you know no prober reason. Haven't you learned that yet?

but in no way was his actions to lure WR into a war. instead, as sea posted in other forums... (many TM want to smack around WR). dive more into that thread nimras and you will see numerous posts along the lines of.. i dont care what happens, i just wanna mass kenzu, or attack WR...i just wanna war them...etc... from various members of TM...
i can say i am going to be the next president of the united states of america but unless it happens then im just ranting. regardless I believe these were all petty jokes if I remember correctly. Not an actual vote for war.
There was no Vote and they where not Jokes either KoS your still not helping your self.
They were poking at him about warring. Do I need to quote some of the posts? They were rants. No vote. Just releasing some anger as far as I can tell
M8 they werent ranting or poking yes no Vote as that would not happen but quoting will not help either. Facts are people did not realeasing anger they where serius but they still at least hold some honor and understood the idea of the image of TM something you forgot .

so yes.. they instead took this opportunity to actually begin preparing for a war, and wanting it. im not sure of any official vote, but i know that ONLY 2 people felt the same way i did when i left TM. thats 2/21 members who didnt agree with this policy, meaning had this gone to vote, it would have meant a clearcut war
prepping how? you take advantage of our increased power and claim it is because we were prepping for war? one tract mind. i knew it.
lol KoS every alliance is one tacked everyone think the other is prepping for war just look at TIE vs ToC a few times lol.
haha i agree with you nimras. once again my post was more of a joke towards taze
And once again your not helping no need for jokes misplaced in a case like this,

i believe the main point here is there is a difference between wanting and doing . If we wanted war there would be war. Its that simple.

KoS your not helping.
I can't help it if i speak the truth

Well then start because your sure as hell failing right now.

by Keinutnai Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:05 pm

ian wrote:

Damn... and too think I remember when (other) people's posts were very small once upon a time

Regarding this matter... just incase by chance it should end up a WR vs. TM affair, and then Mujengan decides for whatever reason to make it a WR & Mujengan vs. TM affair... I would caution against such an escalation, since that would result in a further additional escalation.

Other than that... I have no comment on this matter. Have fun with all the arguing (otherwise known as diplomacy)... and remember, if it comes to war... keep it clean

What kind of escalation, be specific?

Do you want to tell me you would want to back up an alliance, which doesn't honor a policy that TIE wants other alliances to honor too?
Namely, if theoretically a war would start over TM not taking responsibility and paying compensation for the hostile attacks of its members, why should TIE support TM, if TIE too wants, just like WR and Mujengan that alliances pay compensation for the hostile attacks of its members?

You should fight against those who go against your policies, and not against those, who are fighting for the same policies you support.

by Kenzu Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:19 pm

kingkongfan1 wrote:that being said I would like to add the following...

the vote to mass kenzu that Donttazeme is refering to, was in response to kenzu's blatant abuse & misuse of his forum moderator abilities concerning the wrongful banning of Nomad... not as taze would have everyone believe that it was about the KoS/Redblulu hit...

It should have been clear by now that Nomad has received 1 day forumwide ban for using offensive language (insults). Such behaviour always, I repeat, ALWAYS results in a ban.
The ban I have given him in the RA section has then been extended by admin to a 1-day forumwide ban.

So if anyone will continue wondering why there are bans for insults and offensive language, please talk to admin about it.
I see no reason how this can in any way be considered abuse of power.

by ian Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:43 pm

Keinutnai wrote:
ian wrote:

Damn... and too think I remember when (other) people's posts were very small once upon a time

Regarding this matter... just incase by chance it should end up a WR vs. TM affair, and then Mujengan decides for whatever reason to make it a WR & Mujengan vs. TM affair... I would caution against such an escalation, since that would result in a further additional escalation.

Other than that... I have no comment on this matter. Have fun with all the arguing (otherwise known as diplomacy)... and remember, if it comes to war... keep it clean

What kind of escalation, be specific?

Do you want to tell me you would want to back up an alliance, which doesn't honor a policy that TIE wants other alliances to honor too?
Namely, if theoretically a war would start over TM not taking responsibility and paying compensation for the hostile attacks of its members, why should TIE support TM, if TIE too wants, just like WR and Mujengan that alliances pay compensation for the hostile attacks of its members?

You should fight against those who go against your policies, and not against those, who are fighting for the same policies you support.

Since you want specifics, I ll give you them.

I have absolutely zero problems if World Republic & The Marauders decide to nuke one another. None whatsoever... TIE will go buy some popcorn and enjoy the show.

Its however, if Mujengan, decide to then crash the party and play "Pile on" with yourselves (WR) against The Marauders. In such an event, much like The Marauders eventually joined to even out the fight when you crashed TIE & Mujengan's party, TIE eventually would join in.

Of course... if The Marauders happened to do something completely idiotic like giving Mujengan a perfectly good reason to nuke them, while already fighting World Republic.... the situation would be a lot less clear and I couldn't give you a answer on what TIE would do in such an event. So.. in such a scenario, it depends on the specifics. I doubt that would ever happen however.

Since you ve asked about the policy: I do think 100% without a doubt that what The Marauders have done IS wrong. If they ever tried that with T.I.E - they would be at war. Hence why I wouldn't be at all surprised if World Republic opts to go to war over it. You d be right to do so as well btw.

However... Mujengan joining in, in such a scenario (which is what my post was aimed at just incase you 2 were thinking of ganging up on TM)... would be unacceptable... namely in that the offense was committed against a World Republic member, and that you ve stated T.O.C no longer exists. Why should they join in?

There's also the additional factor that if Mujengan joined in against TM, then WR & Mujengan WOULD rip The Marauders apart if you so desired. Supply Turns & sheer weight of numbers all but ensures it.

So... yeah, World Republic vs. The Marauders... I ll actually for once be cheering you guys on since what TM has done (refusing to take responsibility for their members actions then trying to get around retaliation by claiming VIS & WR = not the same, when their own players have repeatedly stated you & Sara = the same) IS wrong.

But don't for a second think that TIE will stand idly by if you try pulling the same stunt you guys did on us - and escalate a alliance vs. alliance war by calling in reinforcements (i.e. Mujengan).... since in such a event, TIE would within 2 weeks of Mujengan joining it & the war being escalated, join in ourselves to balance out the sides & make the fight a more fair one.

So... basically TIE's willingness to step in should Mujengan step in, is based solely on:

- History. We really didn't like getting piled on by WR & Mujengan.. so we wouldn't wish that on T.M
- Simple Survival. WR & Mujengan vs. TM = Inevitable TM Defeat. Future Consequences? TIE left with WR & Mujengan on the server. Thats not a very fun position to be in.
- Friendship. The Marauders eventually came to our aid when WR piled into our Mujengan vs. TIE war, so if they get into a WR vs. Marauders war & Mujengan piles in, we ll eventually come to their aid.

Policy wise... I fully agree with your stance. World Republic SHOULD nuke Kingofshinobis for what he's done... and too hell with the consequences if TM decides to declare war. Thats what TIE would do in your shoes (we d actually probably preemptively attack them if they d said if we hit KOS they d declare war to be honest)

Its just... the other 3 (History, Survival & Friendship) factors outweigh the policy factor in this particular scenario.

So.. hope that clarifies?

Edit: Basically the ONLY way TIE will become involved is if Mujengan becomes involved. IF WR decides to start the war... we ll stay out. If TM decides to start the war.. we ll stay out. But regardless of whoever decides to start the war, if Mujengan joins in... we join in.

by curumo Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:10 pm

What the boss said Wink

*edit* But I do hope you find a diplomatic solution to this fiasco - one way, or another. If KoS (no disrespect m8) decides not to pay he should be nuked without TM interfering. My advice would be: pick one member who can nuke KoS and have him step in redblue's defence and have a dogfight with KoS, since KoS won't pay. Either that or go all out. But we all know how costly wars in AW are... so it's really your choice. Either way - good luck.

by Kingofshinobis1 Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:10 am

My name in every post Razz

. I feel so loved

by Paladius Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:19 am

Ya'll do realize that KOS massed redblulu weeks ago don't you? VIS (which is no longer in existence) had plenty of time to *nuke* KOS for what he did. I don't know why they didn't mass him.

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