just a Question...

by kingkongfan1 Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:47 pm

Warning/Ban System
by Admin Yesterday at 4:49 pm

.Just to keep it somewhat organized there are guidelines

1) Always be polite to other players
2) Post in the relevant sections
3) No insults, vulgarity or racism is allowed
4) If you feel you got offended personally by an insult directed at you, report the post in question and it will get evaluated.
5) No spamming (other than the spam section) and no advertising of other online games, which can be played without download, is allowed

Warning system (not limited to swearing)
- Warning
1) 1 day suspension
2) 3 day suspension
3) 1 week suspension
4) 2 weeks suspension
5) permanent suspension

If a significant amount of time has passed from the last time you got banned then the ban will be 1 level higher than the last ban applied. If only a short time has passed then the next punishment will be 2 levels higher.

Example: If only a week has passed since you got banned for a day, then you will get banned for a week. If half a year has passed, then you will get banned for a 3 days.

Offensive language directed at others and foul language in general will never result in a warning but instant ban of at least 1 day.

Expiration of warnings and punishments will be handled at my discretion.
Decisions are final, the best you can do is to ask me sometime later to reconsider the case.

the above in general I have no issue with, the above in red, pertains to what is posted below...

castravete wrote:dude...aaa..._!_....share this with your family and give some to your long last aunty...don't really know what's your deal, but, aaa piss offa little as [i] have some bizz in RL...ok?...look out for me later junior;)

is the above in blue considered vulger? just trying to define the limits here, I understand racism, & insults, but apparently my defination of vulgar differs from some slightly...

by Admin Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:31 pm

kingkongfan1 wrote:the above in general I have no issue with, the above in red, pertains to what is posted below...

castravete wrote:dude...aaa..._!_....share this with your family and give some to your long last aunty...don't really know what's your deal, but, aaa piss offa little as [i] have some bizz in RL...ok?...look out for me later junior;)
is the above in blue considered vulger? just trying to define the limits here, I understand racism, & insults, but apparently my defination of vulgar differs from some slightly...

I agree that hits it close. Cos you know one could say "it pisses me off if someone does ..." and I would not consider it vulgar.

definitely less vulgar than what stars wrote and I simply edited out. It definitely affects the overall level of the post, but alone and in itself I would say it's not really offensive (I would say it comes closer to disrespectful than offensive actually)
let me sleep about it

by Kenzu Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:09 pm

I'd say that if someone wrote it to you and you consider it offensive, then report it and it should be punished.

I checked the thread where it came from and I believe both posts are breaking rule 3.

"_!_....share this with your family" => this is obviously offensive and vulgar. You don't have to use insults to offend someone.

_!_ is obviously and ass and many people will understand it as such.

And asking someone to share an ass with his family is extremely offensive.

Someone could write "%#&% your mother" and even though he used no insults, it is clear to everyone what he meant, and it's also breaking of rule 3.

by Admin Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:21 pm

Rules post updated to cover masking and the "report offensive posts" issue.

Admin wrote:7) If you feel you got offended, report the post in question and a decision will be made. In these cases what is defined as offensive or insulting will be interpreted much more broadly and the poster might get punished. (Bottom line, be careful with personal insults and posts otherwise you might get into trouble should someone voice a complaint)

by Nomad Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:49 pm

Kenzu wrote:I'd say that if someone wrote it to you and you consider it offensive, then report it and it should be punished.

I checked the thread where it came from and I believe both posts are breaking rule 3.

"_!_....share this with your family" => this is obviously offensive and vulgar. You don't have to use insults to offend someone.

_!_ is obviously and ass and many people will understand it as such.

And asking someone to share an ass with his family is extremely offensive.

Someone could write "%#&% your mother" and even though he used no insults, it is clear to everyone what he meant, and it's also breaking of rule 3.

_!_ is flipping the bird where I come from, but I will not say thats what he meant by it.

I am going to go ahead and make a public arguement I have been making with Admin privately because quit frankly I think you all are making a huge mistake that will come back on you one day. I will make the same example here as I did with admin. Kenzu if you will allow me to use you for the example without taking this personally I would appriciate it. Its not about who the player is, but how they react.

I call Kenzu " A Fool" for failing a sabb in a war, its not seen as an insult but good natured ribbing
Ian calls Kenzu a fool for getting repelled during an assault, its not seen as an insult but good natured ribbing
Smog calls Kenzu a fool for having to many assassins out, its not seen as an insult but good natured ribbing

But Joshua jones calls him a fool for getting raided, and it is seen as an insult resulting in a warning or a bann.

Now to clarify, it's not a privilege to say "i got offended". On the contrary, it's a privilege to say "I did not get offended"

Is Admins explanation about a person being offended and their rights. I just maintain that if you allow others who you know, like, are friends with, respect, or what ever,,,, if you allow them to call you by "fool" then you have no right when someone else sees others say it,,, to get offended. You shouldn't be allowed to pick who offends you, and who doesn't when they say the EXACT same thing in the exact same way.

That example can be used with any person and with any word or insult.

by kingkongfan1 Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:47 am

Admin wrote:
kingkongfan1 wrote:the above in general I have no issue with, the above in red, pertains to what is posted below...

castravete wrote:dude...aaa..._!_....share this with your family and give some to your long last aunty...don't really know what's your deal, but, aaa piss offa little as [i] have some bizz in RL...ok?...look out for me later junior;)
is the above in blue considered vulger? just trying to define the limits here, I understand racism, & insults, but apparently my defination of vulgar differs from some slightly...
I agree that hits it close. Cos you know one could say "it pisses me off if someone does ..." and I would not consider it vulgar.

definitely less vulgar than what stars wrote and I simply edited out. It definitely affects the overall level of the post, but alone and in itself I would say it's not really offensive (I would say it comes closer to disrespectful than offensive actually)
let me sleep about it

first, thank you for your answer,,,

second, I asked because of the comment you previously made about new players coming to forums, & seeing the forums splattered with profanity & not wanting to be a part of the forums due to the profanity, (it doesn't bother me, but it is one of the 7 words you could not say on t.V.)

third, in the context in which you use it above, (underlined) I agree it is not offensive to me, but would any other player find it offensive?

again thank you for the discussion, I understand that any suspect post should be reported to you,

by Kenzu Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:07 am

Nomad has a good point (although he could have used a nonexistend player for his example).

Now this is a problem, if you want it to be same for everyone, but if you simply care about not being banned, then all you need to worry about is to write something that will not offend others.

So it would be a good idea to remove "Fool" from ones vocabulary. You could say: You are making a mistake that you keep so many assassins out. OR Yay! you failed your sab!

@kingkongfan, maybe it would be a good idea that the vocabulary that might be considered offensive for some, but not for the one it has been targeted at wouldn't be ignored, and also wouldn't lead to a ban, but instead simply be replaced by something not considered offensive.

it pisses me off if someone does => would be replaced by => it makes me angry if someone does

A forum shouldn't be drowning in filth, and while "it pisses me off if someone does" could be tolerated "piss off" and "_!_" in Castravete's post should not.

by Admin Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:15 am

My general point I was trying to make is that it would be way too much effort to expect from mods to edit/filter anything that count be considered offensive.
So that's the logic behind my style that obviously offensive stuff gets edited. Borderline stuff, like calling people stupid or fool is left for the recipient to judge.

Obviously if someone would be walking around this forum calling people fools or stupid in every second post (even if they wouldn't get reported but it would be clearly annoying other people) then again I'd warn them and/or ban if they kept it up.

If someone has a better suggestion, I'm willing to listen and maybe even use it.

Actually Nomad I personally feel that people should have the right to chose who may call them what. If a friend calls me an idiot (or something else) based on a certain situation I might notice that he meant it sarcastically or just as a joke, whereas a stranger might have meant it seriously. Hence it makes perfect sense to discriminate content based on who the originator is.
I am certain other people would argue the same way.
This does not mean I do not agree with you. You are right. If you let certain people call you something you are basically setting a standard. However this isn't a black and white issue and I think my explanation seems closer to reality than yours.

by Nomad Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:50 am

Admin wrote:My general point I was trying to make is that it would be way too much effort to expect from mods to edit/filter anything that count be considered offensive.
So that's the logic behind my style that obviously offensive stuff gets edited. Borderline stuff, like calling people stupid or fool is left for the recipient to judge.

Obviously if someone would be walking around this forum calling people fools or stupid in every second post (even if they wouldn't get reported but it would be clearly annoying other people) then again I'd warn them and/or ban if they kept it up.

If someone has a better suggestion, I'm willing to listen and maybe even use it.

Actually Nomad I personally feel that people should have the right to chose who may call them what. If a friend calls me an idiot (or something else) based on a certain situation I might notice that he meant it sarcastically or just as a joke, whereas a stranger might have meant it seriously. Hence it makes perfect sense to discriminate content based on who the originator is.
I am certain other people would argue the same way.
This does not mean I do not agree with you. You are right. If you let certain people call you something you are basically setting a standard. However this isn't a black and white issue and I think my explanation seems closer to reality than yours.

I do not, but thats fine. We can't all agree.

The reason I feel you are wrong is explained by what you said yourself

whereas a stranger might have meant it seriously

. You are not offended because you Know someone was joking, yet you want the right to get offended because someone "might" have been serious.

All I would ask for is personal judgement. So if someone allows others to call him a fool, and the 4th person says it the situation is judged looking back on that. Sorry but i just disagree with you deciding if your offended or not. either something offends you or it doesnt, only being offended because you do not like or know someone is wrong.

And its common knowledge that many words can be used as an insult that may/are not commonly recognized. Heck in my neck of the woods refering to someone as "boy" can lead to blows very quickly. Judgement is all I am asking, not

XXX called me so-and-so and even thos 27 other people have called me that for 17 months I am offended because I dont like him!!!!

Thats just bull hockey

by Admin Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:34 pm

So any better suggestions?

Rly, I understand that the system might not be perfect, but tbh it sure is better than to remove anything that might even hint at sarcasm or inpolite behavior.

by kingkongfan1 Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:07 pm

Admin wrote:So any better suggestions?

Rly, I understand that the system might not be perfect, but tbh it sure is better than to remove anything that might even hint at sarcasm or inpolite behavior.

I do not know if this will work or not; but why not ask 3-5 players who are most active in AW forums to "judge" whether they find a post offensive by using the "report this post to admin" button? (exclaimation mark inside a triangle, upper right hand corner or posts) if you get several players saying they think the post is offensive, then the poster is warned/banned or whatever...

I will say this from my point of view, if harry, dick, & jane, call ralph a fool, & he doesn't complain, then ralph cannot complain if anyone else calls him a fool. whether it is meant as a joke or good natured ribbing, name calling cannot be allowed IMO as to much trouble can come of it...

Also & lastly, I would suggest that if you wouldn't say it to your grandmothers face, then do not say it at all, but my grandmother said it all & it didn't bother her at all, she gave as good as she got, & it appears that several other players had/have grandmothers like mine so I do not think that this would work...

by Admin Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:40 pm

mb instead of grandmother you put in average teacher from high school?

by Nomad Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:06 am

Admin wrote:So any better suggestions?

Rly, I understand that the system might not be perfect, but tbh it sure is better than to remove anything that might even hint at sarcasm or inpolite behavior.

Grandma or high school teacher either one.

I'm not saying its a bad system, I'm just asking you make it clear that judgement will be used, because right now you have made it clear each person has a choice to get offended or not get offended about anything based solely on who said it,,,, I just think thats a mistake. Just make it clear to those "getting offended" you know and understand its abuseable as well, and in cases it is not a "clear" intention use a pm, soft warning, or explination over straight banning,,,,, thats all im asking for.

Kong's idea isnt bad either, might promote a little more activity, maybe even let that same commttee work on or suggest forum changes and such.

by Manleva Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:09 am

Admin wrote:mb instead of grandmother you put in average teacher from high school?

You need to define Average and High School now because both will differ between cultures and countries. For example High School in my country covers a different age range than in the USA.

Common sense and consistency is really the best approach and looking at the context in which statements are made. if a guide is required then it might be better to say use language that is appropriate for normal family viewing on TV.

Also ban public discussion of warnings on the forum. if someone wants to appeal a warning the let them do it privately via PM

by Nomad Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:47 am

I am shocked and appauled at what is considered "normal family veiwing on TV" nowadays.

I agree with Manleva,,, but I showed that already when I stayed away from forums for 3 days of my own free will because no rights or privleges were ever revolked and TBH thats a bad, bad mistake. If you remove someones rights to vote you should remove their abilitiy to do so as well because everyone first instinct is to ask questions and the only readily avalible outlet is forums. Present system is just begging for problems, and legit ones at that.

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