Ishurue ?

This is different then Ish massing Bonzo?
so lets not get into this crap.
Kenzu for everything you bring up that TIE did almost anyone not in TOC can bring up something that TOC did do.

Many people know what he has said/done. They chose to follow him as other riff raff out there aren't worth a penny.

Had you said something like above to me, I would have put TM on standby and then massed your alliance.

So how is this relevant to the TIE that exists nowadays?

TIE has not done anything the likes of this in a L O N G time, so why keep playing the same old tune? The last time we massed someone, as far as I know, was me driving that cheater souldog out of the game. Before that the last instance of our massing was in the war... And that was ages ago... So why bring it up now?

If you have something to say, say it - if not, then I respectfully ask you to not necro long overdue and dead posts ... Thank you.

Kenzu wrote:
I said it before, I say it again,
Ishurue massing Bonzo was also wrong, and World Republic was always against such behaviour. Our stance has not changed since day 1 of Aderan Wars.

words mean nothing, actions prove what a man is; your words say it is wrong, but Ishurue & his actions went unpunished by you & ToC,,, your actions said what Ishurue did was ok to do, & that he was free to do it again if he so chose to. I guarantee you that if a Marauder had pulled such a stunt, he WOULD pay restitution, or he WOULD be banished from the alliance, & I would personally see to it that his acct. was ripped apart... You can go around spouting off as to what your stance may be, but until you actually take action; then, your words are nothing but hot air...

Keep lieing to yourself Kenzu. Sure makes someone wonder why you wait weeks and months after something happens to come crying and whining about it in forums. Why you cry about actions done by TIE but you never come crying about the actions of your own allies and members. Sure make you look two faced. Makes it look like you turn a blind eye to the actions of your own while you scream when someone else does the same things your very men do.


matrygg was a long standing WR member who had split from WR just days/weeks prior to the war. I also noticed you refuse to address many points made to you, but answering them would just discredit your fabrication. matrygg was 1 man, not an alliance. He did not "power up/build up" his account. He built a massive strike. One that was useless for farming. One that was made for 1 pourpose. All done while his long term alliance was getting pounded. No explination for that one?

Well I do. Its called going out in a blaze of glory since he was leaving anyway. You see we can all claim what ever we want. What matters is the facts. They have been stated, so all can draw there own conclusions.

Simply put Kenzu, your just here to try to stir up trouble, and to keep forums active. Thing is you should clean up your own house and business before trying to preach to another about their business. Makes you look like a hypocrite, and a troublemaker.

Special Agent 47 wrote:
Simply put Kenzu, your just here to try to stir up trouble, and to keep forums active. Thing is you should clean up your own house and business before trying to preach to another about their business. Makes you look like a hypocrite, and a troublemaker.

@Kenzu- what I believe that you are failing to realize; is, that you are no longer World Republic; you are in fact ToC, & what ANY member of ToC does, on his/her own, or under orders of the ToC higher up reflects upon you... you can stand there & say "that is wrong" or "World Republic does not condone that", but as long as you carry the ToC tag, you are responsible for every ToC members actions... If you cannot/willnot take control/responsibility for your empires actions, then you are not a leader plain & simple...

Edit**

Kenzu wrote:

kingkongfan1 wrote:

Kenzu wrote:
I said it before, I say it again,
Ishurue massing Bonzo was also wrong, and World Republic was always against such behaviour. Our stance has not changed since day 1 of Aderan Wars.

words mean nothing, actions prove what a man is; your words say it is wrong, but Ishurue & his actions went unpunished by you & ToC,,, your actions said what Ishurue did was ok to do, & that he was free to do it again if he so chose to. I guarantee you that if a Marauder had pulled such a stunt, he WOULD pay restitution, or he WOULD be banished from the alliance, & I would personally see to it that his acct. was ripped apart... You can go around spouting off as to what your stance may be, but until you actually take action; then, your words are nothing but hot air...

If someone from World Republic would have done that, then he would no doubt be kicked out from our alliance and maybe also massed.
However, Ishurue was in Mujengan, a different alliance, I can't control who is member of Mujengan, neither you can.

Why did you not punish Ishurue? Why do you ask me to punish him?

you are Toc, Ishurue was ToC, I am not, nor will I ever be ToC, if any punishment is to be dealt out then it is upon YOUR shoulders to deal it out, I am not the one in an empire with players who do the opposite of what I believe in... If I say "I will not tolerate a certain action", then the one who did the action will make right by it or else I will not be associated with said player. & Ishurue was dealt with in due course, but not by you or ToC...

one last thing Kenzu; NEVER pm me again about something that is being discussed publicly. really bad form on your part, you want to talk about something, then bring it to these forums...

You wear the same tag. How can you allow another member of TOC to do what you condemn non TOC members of doing? If you really practised what you preach then TOC wouldn't exist.

When you allow things for your members, yet condemn things for non members that's called hypocracy. Yet you stayed allies with a person who daily bragged about forcing a player to quit. Never came on forums and bashed him did you Kenzu?


Guess it is conveniant to be able to speak out both sides of your mouth.

Kenzu wrote:Mujengan is not my "house". My "house" is World Republic.

Although both are in TOC, both have separate leaders. I don't control Mujengan. Mujengan leaders do.

WR has no more responsibility to punish wrongdoings by non-members, than any other alliance.
It's funny how we have a couple people here who are angry that I didn't mass Ishurue, while none of you hasn't attempted to mass Ishurue either.
That's hypocrisy.

Then lose the ToC tag because ToC HAS a responsibility to control it's members period, As long as you stand by & allow actions to occur without publicly attempting to control the situation, then you have no right to to say "I & World Republic do not condone these actions" because you will be lying, Allowing a partner alliance to do actions that you claim are wrong, & staying a partner with that alliance in an empire makes you as guilty as the party that did the wrongdoing in the first place... You would have gotten some respect from me if you had said to Ishurue at the time of the incident that you were not going to tolerate his behavior & taken World Republic out of the ToC empire, but since you chose not to then all you get from me is contempt... & btw I massed Ishurue aplenty, so you need to get your facts right before you go running your mouth about things you know nothing about...

Edit**

Kenzu wrote:

kingkongfan1 wrote:

Kenzu wrote:Mujengan is not my "house". My "house" is World Republic.

Although both are in TOC, both have separate leaders. I don't control Mujengan. Mujengan leaders do.

WR has no more responsibility to punish wrongdoings by non-members, than any other alliance.
It's funny how we have a couple people here who are angry that I didn't mass Ishurue, while none of you hasn't attempted to mass Ishurue either.
That's hypocrisy.

Then lose the ToC tag because ToC HAS a responsibility to control it's members period, As long as you stand by & allow actions to occur without publicly attempting to control the situation, then you have no right to to say "I & World Republic do not condone these actions" because you will be lying, Allowing a partner alliance to do actions that you claim are wrong, & staying a partner with that alliance in an empire makes you as guilty as the party that did the wrongdoing in the first place... You would have gotten some respect from me if you had said to Ishurue at the time of the incident that you were not going to tolerate his behavior & taken World Republic out of the ToC empire, but since you chose not to then all you get from me is contempt... & btw I massed Ishurue aplenty, so you need to get your facts right before you go running your mouth about things you know nothing about...

(1)World Republic has not founded TOC in order to dissolve it, that's why it will exist forever.
what is stopping you from breaking World Republic away from ToC? you agreed to join, you can leave...

(2)How dare you say I allow it to happen? I made it clear that such behaviour is unacceptable.
I allowed no one do such things, and I talked to Ishurue a lot to persuade him against such behaviour.
facts are, you did not compensate, nor force Ishurue to compensate, you just lay down & let Ishurue do as he pleased, in essance you did allow it to happen, a lot of good it did for you to "talk" to ishurue...

(3)World Republic and TOC isn't responsible for the actions of Ishurue, because he did things against our beliefs.
why did you not leave ToC as a way to show your disapproval of his actions?...

(4)You would have gotten respect from me if you would gather information before making an opinion. You are judging me without knowing much.
You don't know what I have done to stop this.
according to what is posted, you "asked" Ishurue to compensate his victims, that was all. nothing else was done, at least not by you. if you wanted more known then you should have posted it publicly...


(5)I made it clear to Ishurue that he will not be protected by World Republic if he gets massed, because he has done a wrong deed. Of course you know nothing about it, because you don't want to spend time finding out things. Instead you come to a simple conclusion based on lack of information that you are not even aware of.
but in fact, you did continue to protect him by not leaving ToC; & I know a lot more than you think I do, your conclusion is false...

(6)You say you massed Ishurue, but when have you done it?
Have you done immediately after your alliance mate has been massed?
NO
you have no idea what the hell you are talking about...

(7)You massed him during a war that was unrelated to Bonzo and Barragan massing!
You let your own alliance member get massed, and you didn't fight back.
Again, you have no idea what you are talking about...

(8)You want WR to protect a non-member, while your alliance doesn't even protect its members properly.
All I can say here is, you are soooo wrong!!!


(9)Your biggest problem is that you judge others without gathering enough info to make an unbiased view.
So who is the one "running his mouth without knowing nothing about it" now?
you are wrong here, you have left more than enough evidence of your character in these forums for anyone to be able to judge you, & at least I do not run around saying, "I do not condone these actions", but then stand Idlely by as an empire- mate perpetuates such actions & stand there doing nothing to stop it saying "I cannot control him" & still remain partnered in an empire that does condone such actions... Pathetic!

Kenzu wrote:People who believe you ian, must be blind.
Long time ago, I gave bulletproof facts you lied, and some people still believed you. Then others came forward also showed evidence that you lied. People from Mujengan, Emperors, and even from Imperium empire itself (remember Universe and Souldog?).

Later you admitted that you lied (like for example when you said that Imperium doesn't exit anymore, or when you admitted that Imperium was spying on WR, even though before you were claiming you havent).

And even though it has been proven countless times that you lied, and also you yourself admitted that you lied before, some people keep believing you every claim you make.

I see no more point in arguing with you. You can write you lies here if you want, most people won't read it anyway. And those who do read it, most likely have an opinion about you anyway.

Jesus christ. Here I was happily minding my own business... not having posted on the AW forum for a LONG time, and the only semi-recently post being to tell both TM/Mujengen if they farm TIE while at war to expect to be farmed while in war.... and then you come up, resurrect a long-dead topic and call me a liar?

Ok then, since you ve just brought me out of retirement and in the process resurrected WR-TIE tensions... tensions I thought long ago resolved btw, then you can expect a response back when I have time to type it.

thanks kenzu tensions r good tensions mean more activity

ian wrote:

Kenzu wrote:People who believe you ian, must be blind.
Long time ago, I gave bulletproof facts you lied, and some people still believed you. Then others came forward also showed evidence that you lied. People from Mujengan, Emperors, and even from Imperium empire itself (remember Universe and Souldog?).

Later you admitted that you lied (like for example when you said that Imperium doesn't exit anymore, or when you admitted that Imperium was spying on WR, even though before you were claiming you havent).

And even though it has been proven countless times that you lied, and also you yourself admitted that you lied before, some people keep believing you every claim you make.

I see no more point in arguing with you. You can write you lies here if you want, most people won't read it anyway. And those who do read it, most likely have an opinion about you anyway.

Jesus christ. Here I was happily minding my own business... not having posted on the AW forum for a LONG time, and the only semi-recently post being to tell both TM/Mujengen if they farm TIE while at war to expect to be farmed while in war.... and then you come up, resurrect a long-dead topic and call me a liar?

Ok then, since you ve just brought me out of retirement and in the process resurrected WR-TIE tensions... tensions I thought long ago resolved btw, then you can expect a response back when I have time to type it.

I would just like to quote the Pm Kenzu sent me:

"This all wouldn't happen if you wouldn't start again with your ways of saying trash about WR, such as "Like it was when WR ran around massing new players whenever they liked", which you said before.
You agreed not to talk about past anymore, yet again you start stirring trouble by saying such rubbish"

I m sure I need not highlight that my post he refers to was posted on November the 25th 2010 - at a time when The Order of Chaos and The Imperium were still partly enemies.

He then comes onto this topic and posts on January the 27th slandering The Imperium and calling me a liar - 2months+ AFTER the last TIE post during which TIE & TOC relations had warmed considerably - which it now turns out was likely a complete show in an attempt to ensure TIE neutrality should The Marauders & the *whole* of Order of Chaos end up at war.

Thats the only explanation I can think of for the 2month period in which TIE & TOC didn't fall out & got on generally well.... and then within about a week and a half of the resolution of The Marauders & TOC crisis, Kenzu comes here, digs up this long dead topic and personally attacks/slanders The Imperium/Myself. Coincidence? I think not. Now that he doesn't have to worry about a TM-TOC conflict erupting or of TIE intervening, the need for friendly relations is not necessary.. thus he reverts back to his old-hostile anti-TIE stance.

Thats all I have to say in this topic. I m going back into my quite retirement from Aderan Wars politics with TIE probably minding its own business. Have fun all.

Just want to make a small clarification to what you had to say Ian. There never was any issues between TOC and TM. There was an issue between Munjengan and TM. That difference has made it full circle and ended. During its existence it stayed between TM and Munjengan. WR, VIS, nor any other members of TOC entered the war save Castrovete who jumped from WR to Munjengan at the start of the war. So it can be argued he was munjengan from the start of the war. There is no way Kenzu nor WR can be held accountable for those actions.


But other then that yeah, Kenzu seems to be attempting to stir up some trouble for some reason. I'm sure it will all be made clear soon enough.

I would like to know too ... So, Kenzu, respectfully I'd like to ask you to answer the queries from my last post. But since I know I didn't phrase a direct question, I shall do it now. What's the point in necroing this topic? Why now after 2 months? What are you trying to accomplish with this? Thank you.

curumo wrote:I would like to know too ... So, Kenzu, respectfully I'd like to ask you to answer the queries from my last post. But since I know I didn't phrase a direct question, I shall do it now. What's the point in necroing this topic? Why now after 2 months? What are you trying to accomplish with this? Thank you.

Here the claim by ian that started all this:

ian wrote:(Like it was when WR ran around massing new players whenever they liked)

I would like ian to stop his smear campaign of half-truths and lies, which he uses to discredit World Republic.
Why starting these false accusations again and again against World Republic? We talked about them in 2009, we talked about them in 2010. The relations between TOC and TIE were becomming warm, at some later date ian was even suggesting an MDP between TIE and WR (claiming that TM and Mujengan would destroy TIE and then WR). Of course this suggestion seemed suspicious to WR leadership. And then in november 2010 he starts mud slinging again.

The question should be, what is ian trying to achieve?

You come on here and drag up a 2 month old topic and start trying to pick a fight and say its Ian instigating an issue?



Its took you 2 months to get offended?





Great example of some fine leadership there.

Oh, and since it can be researched on these very forums, anyone wanting to find the truth just do a little looking of your own and you will find threads on these very forums proving Ian's point, even admissions from Kenzu himself has made (unless he has went back and edited the posts) to the fact he has massed players without EVER contacting them diplomatically. Even when he KNEW it was a WR member who started the issue, and got more then he bargained for.

Reading every single post in the forum has nothing to do with good leadership of an alliance.

About your the WR massing issue you bring up.
It depends on the viewpoint of who starts an issue.

If there are two players, a big one and a small one who joined recently, who has no idea about diplomacy on AW, who gets farmed and out of anger writes something like "Why did you steal my kuwal? I will mass you", and the big player receiving this message instead of contacting WR leadership asking us to solve this problem, decides to mass the little guy for that, and then gets massed by WR for massing our member, then your view is that the little guy started it by threatening.

But my view is that if it's clear that it's a newbie, who in addition can't harm you much (his covert and assassin action is smaller, and he uses much weaker weapons), who never fought in war, then a threat from such person is not to be taken seriously. And in this case I will consider the person who makes an act of war to have started this all.

There is no point in discussing this matter any further. We seem to diverge due to differing opinions of who is responsible for starting a conflict. I believe everything has been said already.

In addition I would like to add that I am happy that these conflicts are not happening for a long time (since 2009).

This is probably due to these factors:
-Better knowledge of diplomacy given to WR members.
-Widely known WR policy of massing those who mass WR.
-Most new players are fast integrated in major alliances, where they find out how to deal with such conflicts

and most of all:

-A farming policy, which ends most frustration, since it draws a line where a player has to build more defense, and where he simply asks for compensation. Obviously a player who expects he will get back all he lost will not need to resort to such things as threats.

Thank you for the interesting discussion.

Special Agent 47 wrote:You come on here and drag up a 2 month old topic and start trying to pick a fight and say its Ian instigating an issue?



Its took you 2 months to get offended?





Great example of some fine leadership there.

Oh, and since it can be researched on these very forums, anyone wanting to find the truth just do a little looking of your own and you will find threads on these very forums proving Ian's point, even admissions from Kenzu himself has made (unless he has went back and edited the posts) to the fact he has massed players without EVER contacting them diplomatically. Even when he KNEW it was a WR member who started the issue, and got more then he bargained for.

lol, Kenzu seems to go through periodic bouts of rationalism and then irrationalism. Unfortunately his rationalism "cycle" tends to be a lot shorter than his irrational cycle.

He seems unable to grasp some fundamental truths:

- That World Republic is the only alliance to date to have actively targeted new/ far smaller players without any attempt at diplomacy. I believe these would be a good place to revisit:

https://aderanwars.forumotion.com/t653-tackless-shadow-vs-skyshadow
https://aderanwars.forumotion.com/t821-redblubluvs-rob3rt

- That World Republic as a member of TOC is/was allied to Mujengen - who's players/leader actively targeted other players forcing them to quit. Kenzu opted to do nothing substantial at all to halt these aggressions - and in so doing, by his actions, indirectly supported the attacks.

Now compare that to The Imperium or The Marauders conduct & I think it becomes clear which alliances/empire enjoys throwing its weight around against individuals who can't compete/defend themselves against them.

Yet apparently its The Imperium & Myself which is bad and the root of all evil... and T.O.C's members or as a empire can't do any harm at all?

Kenzu wrote:
I would like ian to stop his smear campaign of half-truths and lies, which he uses to discredit World Republic.
Why starting these false accusations again and again against World Republic? We talked about them in 2009, we talked about them in 2010. The relations between TOC and TIE were becomming warm, at some later date ian was even suggesting an MDP between TIE and WR (claiming that TM and Mujengan would destroy TIE and then WR). Of course this suggestion seemed suspicious to WR leadership. And then in november 2010 he starts mud slinging again.

The question should be, what is ian trying to achieve?

Kenzu wrote:Reading every single post in the forum has nothin to do with good leadership of an alliance.

*edited cause i didnt close the qoute right

Kenzu your the onE bring this thread back up after comments were made 2 + months ago. How do u you let a thread go about some one that was a leader of an allaince in YOUR EMPIRE[b]YOUR [/b][u][i][b] is the subject line. Good leadership of an alliance is checking threads about people you are allied to. Not deciding to check on said thread 2 months later after said person deleted his account.

So i ask this Kenzu whats your real motivation behind commenting 2 + months late. Is it because your trying to stir up anti tie stuff cause your allies x leader bragged up making people quit, therefore making your empire look bad?

Could it be TIE is being to friendly and have no new dirt to smear us with, so you dredge up outdated posts to make your Empire look better?

I would like to thank you kenzu for putting your foot in the mouth and making Ian active again cause tie was starting to wither again. Your comment made a few us active again i thank you for that. If you would kept your mouth shut tie would have grown even weaker over the months and i would say in 3 months TOC could have walked over us. Instead you ease tensions again.

I do not think Kenzu does that intentionally, he is just mad

No response:/

Kenzu we are still waiting for that response.