Commander/officer ratio

I think the average rate paid per UU by CO's to active officers over the last week/month may be the best indication we have of a fair price.
Even if the trade system doesn't take this value, it would be valuable information for me to have.
The current suggested rate is unrealistic and it would help me to see how my pay compares to other CO's and in that way make the CO market more transparent.

Admin wrote:
However I do hope that you'll realize that trying to claim that honest CO payment rates fulfilling their intended purpose have little relation to the current UU rates is very far away from the truth.

I don't agree. They are two very different things. Just like fair trade chocolate is not the same product as non-fair trade chocolate and a new hybrid diesel car is completely different from a twenty-year-old gas guzzler, not just in a cost sense. There may be a relationship, but I think you'll find it very hard to approximate it in a formula as the relationship is defined by what value CO's perceive from the intangible benefits of buying though a CO/officer relationship versus benefits of buying through the market and what benefits people perceive.
I can live with how things are currently, even though the redlining annoys me and I think that anyone paying the suggested rate should be redlined for being fed.

Jiro, just because a price is fundamentally different in absolute values in your presented examples doesn't rebuke the fact that all there is to it is a simple multiplier effect (sometimes simple means one number, sometimes it's a polynomial function). But fact remains that one value is still based upon or can be calculated by knowing the other.

Jiro wrote:I see benefits that you didn't in your post and maybe someone else sees other benefits.

That's the reason why I said that there's plenty of benefits.
No need to write out an essay on the how's and what's if everyone agrees they are there and in significant numbers.

To me the problem lies within the "freely generated" UU. If I understand it correctly, the commander receives UU that has been generated from thin air basically. Now, officers want going market rate for those UU and commanders (generally) want to pay going rate for those UU to help their officers, and to receive those UU cheaper then the market price for purchase.

Admins formula splits the benefit in half so that both commander and officer get the same and equal benifit. To me that is the heart of the problem. A true officer/commander relationship Should be skewed to the officers favor.

In real life an officer is subject to the commander. The commander is stronger, the officer weaker. The officer accepts the commands of the commander to learn and better himself. Once the officer is equal in power he would move on, and no one would subject themselves to someone weaker then themselves. You at 20 mill total population and 25 bill total power will not be submissive to a 1 bill total population commander with 5 bill total power.

Admin looks at the relationship as it should be equal for officer and commander, I look at it as it should be heavily skewed in the favor of the weaker officer, as why be an officer to someone weaker they you? If your lone wolf bonus is higher then what you get from a commander its pointless to have one. If the commander is not allowed to help you with monetary donation then its pointless to have one. If your commanders military might is weaker then your own he can offer you no protection so there is no point in having one.

JMO

An officer is a weaker account attaching itself to a stronger account to learn, grow, and literally leech resources in the process. Not to be perfectly = to and with the commander.

Part of that reasoning is why there's a spectrum of acceptable payments.

Admin wrote:Part of that reasoning is why there's a spectrum of acceptable payments.

ok, I'm going to accept that, even tho i want to argue that the spectrum is really very small as paying going market rate will redline your officer commander TR and then eventually redline your PTR so,,,,,,,,

But we will wait and see how it looks for a week or two, see if normal growth can overcome a high rate. Presently my PTR has not dropped at all since update release so its hard to tell how things will be effected over time.

ok can i ask a stupid question, as i really haven't been following this fully. ITs the Transfer Ratio that needs to be green within the 20%?

The "personal Transfer ratio" on your base page is green from -20 to +20 on a scale of -100 to +100.

Your "Officer Transfer Ratio is green from 62,5% to 100%, red anywhere else


Please correct me if I'm wrong Admin, but I think thats it.

you're spot on

so the 2 have to be green?

to be in a fully "fair" trade ratio yes

but its not immediate, hes giving everyone time to adjust and as long as you are trending towards the green you will be ok as far as I know.

officer ratios are easy to fix with a broker marker "officer transfer"

personal ratio will take longer as you have to give or get resources to cover the ratio and get back in the green.

also you can redline at times as long as you work to get back green.

Acceptable officer ratios will get moved from the current 62.5% and 100% to 65% and 115% shortly.

Suggested rate will still get displayed as 75% ratio.
But basically you'll be able to pay over 50% more than the suggested rate and still be "in the green"

Admin wrote:Acceptable officer ratios will get moved from the current 62.5% and 100% to 65% and 115% shortly.

Suggested rate will still get displayed as 75% ratio.
But basically you'll be able to pay over 50% more than the suggested rate and still be "in the green"

?????????

if you continueously pay alot you will eventually redline will you not?

Nomad wrote:?????????
if you continueously pay alot you will eventually redline will you not?

Is that why everyone's crying so much for no reason?

Imagine the suggested rate is 75k, which equals to a ratio of 75% if you pay it (you pay 75k kuwal for each unit you get which is worth officially 100k kuwal)
If you decide to pay 98k then your ratio will keep approaching 98% (if you were above 98% then it will keep on falling until it reaches 98%, if you were under 98% then it will keep growing until it reaches 98%. After that it will stay there forever)
If you decide to pay 110k then your ratio will keep approaching 110% (if you were above 110% then it will keep on falling until it reaches 110%, if you were under 110% then it will keep growing until it reaches 110%. After that it will stay there forever)

That's how ratio's work.

hears a few more questions on it if i leave my current commander does the Ratio Received/Sent reset? if i have a no commander for a period does it reset? is the value taken over the whole time with command? if commander lower payment from 125% to 115% how long will it take to drop to legal area. what would the drop be per turn?

Casshern wrote:hears a few more questions on it if i leave my current commander does the Ratio Received/Sent reset?

Obviously not

Casshern wrote:if i have a no commander for a period does it reset?

see question above

Casshern wrote:is the value taken over the whole time with command?

yes

Casshern wrote:if commander lower payment from 125% to 115% how long will it take to drop to legal area.

You will never drop to legal area
The ratio will never reach 115%. I will only APPROACH 115% in ever decreasing steps.

Example:
You have received 100 mil kuwal in units. And have sent 125 mil kuwal, your ratio is 125%
Now you get units worth another 100 mil kuwal and send 115 mil kuwal in return.
You received 200 mil kuwal in units and have sent 240 mil kuwal in total. your ratio is 120%
Now you buy units for 20 BIL kuwal and send 23 BIL kuwal in return.
You have received 20.2 Bil kuwal and have sent 23.24 kuwal in total. your ratio is 115.05%

If you're above 115% you have to be paying LESS than 115% to ever get back into legal area

Casshern wrote:what would the drop be per turn?

Depends on the production rate of units and the amount that has already been transferred

it is making more sense to me now. I did think that it would continue climbing as long as you paid more then suggested.

Admin, what happens if Galactic market rate increases to what you are getting paid?
Does your officer payment go from say 150% to 100% overnight?
Or if the balance is 10bil Kuwal paid too much by the CO remain and does the percentage slowly approach 100% because the 10bil Kuwal is divided by an ever growing number?

Nomad wrote:it is making more sense to me now. I did think that it would continue climbing as long as you paid more then suggested.

I am getting the feeling a large number of people have that train of thought, were shouting murder without understanding what happens when two numbers that get divided by each other change.

Jiro wrote:Or if the balance is 10bil Kuwal paid too much by the CO remain and does the percentage slowly approach 100% because the 10bil Kuwal is divided by an ever growing number?

That

if i change commander will it have any affect?
if i decide to go lone wolf, even with an over payment from a old commander, once i stay like that would it have any affect?

shouldn;t an update like this not be treated retroactively. Its such a dramatic change to the old system you had, would only be fair to your playerbase. wouldn't a system where players that are inactive and feeding others not be better dealt with a system that kicks player from being a commander/officer if they haven't logged in a set amount of time

Casshern wrote:if i change commander will it have any affect?
if i decide to go lone wolf, even with an over payment from a old commander, once i stay like that would it have any affect?

Each unique commander you join is treated as a new relation

if there was an over/under payment it will eventually get solved the same way chronic over/underpayments will.

Casshern wrote:shouldn;t an update like this not be treated retroactively. Its such a dramatic change to the old system you had, would only be fair to your playerbase. wouldn't a system where players that are inactive and feeding others not be better dealt with a system that kicks player from being a commander/officer if they haven't logged in a set amount of time

It should but it can't and No it wouldn't

Yet the other update went retro active.

I thought admin said it all remained and was retro?

Admin wrote:

Nomad wrote:it is making more sense to me now. I did think that it would continue climbing as long as you paid more then suggested.

I am getting the feeling a large number of people have that train of thought, were shouting murder without understanding what happens when two numbers that get divided by each other change.

Well with no explination we are having to ask questions to get answers mate. But we are gaining ground now mate.

I see now that if your allowed 240% of the suggested rate then you can pay 239% and never redline, and I think that is WAYYYY higher then anyone was paying to begin with.

how are you getting to 240%
You're only allowed to pay between 65% and 115%
And the suggested rate displays the 75% value

the reason why transfers are retroactive is because those were monitored very closely.
The commander/officer relations not so much or at least not to the extent to allow exact calculating possible

Admin wrote:how are you getting to 240%
You're only allowed to pay between 65% and 115%

the reason why transfers are retroactive is because those were monitored very closely.
The commander/officer relations not so much or at least not to the extent to allow exact calculating possible

Let me look back, sorry. I saw that somewhere but must have gotten confused

I'll b right back


***EDIT***

My bad, its was the limit on GM prices and I got confused

Spoiler:

you can pay 153.33% of the suggested rate