BaseO bug.

Oh yeh, having talked with a neutral bystander who doesn't even play the game, he says I should ban all 4.

And I got reminded that, vesper you're planning to sell your account anyway, so why would you want to account back, it's not like you were going to play anyway

Admin wrote:Oh yeh, having talked with a neutral bystander who doesn't even play the game, he says I should ban all 4.

And I got reminded that, vesper you're planning to sell your account anyway, so why would you want to account back, it's not like you were going to play anyway

I really don't think him selling his account has anything to do with this topic tbh.

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:
I really don't think him selling his account has anything to do with this topic tbh.

vesper wanted to sell his account hence stop playing

Vesper wrote:
I admit i exploited a bug, lots of people have here. Should i be banned? Probably for a bit. Being this is my first offense I would expect some form of punishment.

Throughout this topic I have repeated that I should be punished. More then the others I feel. I asked admin what he would think would be a fit punishment instead of a perm ban and he told me nothing I can do.

I am sorry for what I did overall. I feel I sent the server into a chaotic downfall over a bug. This situation simply grew out of control quickly. I am sorry to the people that had the disadvantage of the bug. I most likely would have massed them anyway to be honest though. There just would have been a slightly longer delay since I would have needed to use CT to get the spy report.

Person I should be sorry to is Sara. She is the only one I truly feel bad and that the bug was used on with an actual purpose other then recon report. When I was checking her stats I saw she was on medium realm alert which then motivated me to sab her. I wouldnt have touched her if she was not on realm alert. Something about the challenge appealed to me.

Admin wrote:

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:
I really don't think him selling his account has anything to do with this topic tbh.

vesper wanted to sell his account hence stop playing

I was curious what kind of offers I would get for the account. If i received an offer I couldn't refuse I would have sold the account. I was not expecting any high offers but just in case there was somebody interested that had lots of money I figured I would make the post.

As for my punishment being you went from telling me there was no way I could get unbanned to now offering me the chance to choose my own punishment I am grateful. I would suggest a 50% UU strip and another day of being banned. Taking about 3.5mil farmers would be over half if that is what you feel is fair.

If this situation ever came up again I would have reported the bug. Really I hate drama and this situation is nothing but drama. I do wish I could take back what I did but I can not. Whats done is done and now all I can ask for is forgiveness. Reason I was so hostile was before was because I did just wake up and to wake and and find your account banned before you even get morning tea is a great way to piss anybody off. I regret what I have done. I admit when I am wrong and this is one of those times. I fucked up.

Vesper wrote:If this situation ever came up again I would have reported the bug. Really I hate drama and this situation is nothing but drama. I do wish I could take back what I did but I can not. Whats done is done and now all I can ask for is forgiveness. Reason I was so hostile was before was because I did just wake up and to wake and and find your account banned before you even get morning tea is a great way to piss anybody off. I regret what I have done. I admit when I am wrong and this is one of those times. I fucked up.

Thank you, seriously what that so hard?
4 Pages of text over something you could have said 5 minutes into our convo and save us a ton of time.
The only problem I had is I felt that you wrote some things in the style of being victimized while having commited some minor offense

I have no way of knowing whether or not you mean it seriously as you can probably understand.
You'll be unbanned shortly, punishment is yet to come.

My final word on this matter:
As ian called it, setting a trap, I call it serving justice. Setting a trap would be if I intentionally code a bug into the game.
That thought itself is so stupid that it would never occur to me to do it.
However when I find or get directed to a bug that can be easily mistakenly used by anyone, then I have and I always will correct it immediately.
This was clearly the other type of bug, something that actually requires intentional manipulation. With these I always have and I always will first set up a monitoring system once I find out about them. If I see a week has passed without anyone using it, then I'll close it and it'll be the end of that matter.
Here you could see what happens in the other case.

If you want, I'll make an ingame poll about my methods and let the players decide if I should continue with them. However that will mean those who abuse certain serious bugs will get away with it.

I for one would like to have this ingame poll, I would like to see the playing communities response to this situation. I know my thoughts on this, but for now they will stay mine own...

thanks for changing the sentence. I can log in now but thats about it. I'll wait to see what you take off the account

Is this part of the punishment or an unexpected bug?

Stat Base Value Basic Techs Custom Tech Bonus Personal Bonus Total Power
Strike 220,011,000 150% 0 0% 0
Defence 2,695,992,380 160% 0 0% 0
Covert 2,320,005,800 172% 0 78% 0
Assassin 1,100,004,400 150% 0 0% 0

Strike Action 0 Ranked 0
Defensive Action 0 Ranked 0
Covert Action 0 Ranked 0
Assassin Action 0 Ranked 0
Airforce Action 0 Ranked 0

retro22 wrote:I still stand by the fact that it is YOUR fault for not fixing it. You want to catch people fine. but the problem with that method in this case is that you can't tell if they are using it for good or evil or learning how it works to report it. Also, as for said gains; the only one you could possibly monitor is hitting after protection. Even if someone were to look at a base0 on someone it wouldn't change anything. The same thing would have happened. They would have found out the information one way or another. This is why anyone it got used on would have no course to be annoyed. Either their account is set up to take a beating or it isn't. POINT BLANK. Permanent Banning should only be a result of using malicious code, repeatedly using an income related bug, or harassment. Any other MINOR bug(like this one) should be dealt with in a temp ban. Also, why do you expect someone to apologize when they didn't feel they were doing anything wrong(since admin knew about it and didn't do anything to denounce using it)?

I don't think this is what should be discussed here. It is not his fault! You cannot fix something, if you don't even know something is wrong with it in the first place. What are the players for? It is the duty of each and everyone to report all bugs. Afterall if everyone reports bugs as soon as they are encountered the game will not suffer at all from bugs, because everything can be fixed.

If you don't know about a bug, that's ok.
If you see a bug, please report it ASAP!
If you see a bug and exploit it, you should report as soon as possible and apologise!

But if you see a bug , exploit the bug, receive and advantage, harm others, and don't even report it, well that's horrible behaviour for a player.

Now should such a player be banned forever?

Since this is the first time that banning for such big players is considered, I think there should be no permaban this time, but there should be some form of punishment, which exceeds what the players have gained from exploiting the bug. And the next time this happens, cheaters should be banned for exploiting and not reporting any bug which affects the game, or they get a harsh punishment the first time they do it, and if they ever do it again, they should be banned.

Punishment has already been established that I know of? I think you are a little late Kenzu Correct me if I'm wrong though.

Kenzu seems to seek a debate that will prevent this outcome from being used as precedent in future cases.
It is only fitting that such an argument is presented after the verdict is already set.

Vesper wrote:It is no known secret that Kenzu has repetitively lied and tried to manipulate people into do his biddings.

I would be happy if you stopped lying on the forum.

If I would have lied, I would know about it.

Absurd claims without evidence will only let the easily manipulated believe them.
I am aware of the propaganda done against me and I am also aware that certain people throwing mud by telling lies and making false claims to make other people think bad of me.

I still have seen no proper evidence to back such claims.
In fact there can never be evidence against such things, because your claims are based on nothing more than lies.

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:Punishment has already been established that I know of? I think you are a little late Kenzu Correct me if I'm wrong though.

I know. I'm just saying how I would do it.

Universe wrote:Kenzu seems to seek a debate that will prevent this outcome from being used as precedent in future cases.
It is only fitting that such an argument is presented after the verdict is already set.

You are completely right.

Afterall it must be made sure that people know what consequences they face if they cheat.

As a person and as a player I don't condone cheating, nor will I ever. I've told this to everyone involved here. That being said - all I can say is that I'm proud on Vesper for apologizing. It's nice to see that Admin doesn't back off as well and that he CAN be reasoned with.

Universe wrote:Kenzu seems to seek a debate that will prevent this outcome from being used as precedent in future cases.
It is only fitting that such an argument is presented after the verdict is already set.

I see your point. I agree there should be a small debate on this but in the end, it is the admins decision about what should be done and how. If he wants to use the same punishment, then let him. I personally liked the way the admin went about this myself. Though repeat offenders would be a different story.

*

I received a rather funny PM from dear Vesper, who decided I sent messages way before I did.

I would like to ask Admin to confirm the time he received my message, if he can be bothered (it would be understandable if you're not).

Vesper wrote:There were still some doubts about you being ~B and you were going to be left alone. But after this shows up that you reported a bug and let most of TIE take the fall including SA is a very low blow. The bug was reported over a week by you before anybody even mentioned that you might be ~B. You just proved our suspicions.

Cheers

Ian's lengthy exposé.
Be All Thy Sins Remembered
Post by ian on Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:39 am

My first reply to Ian's lengthy exposé.
Re: Be All Thy Sins Remembered
Post by Universe on Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:56 am

My message to Admin.
SERIOUS BUG!! BaseO.php?=
Admin - Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:58 pm


Note the timestamps, anyone?

I sent that message to admin before you said I was ~B? I sent the PM after you decided to crucify me to cover up your own stupidity, or your conspiracy, whatever the heck that whole episode was. If you thought that some 10 hours of abuse and betrayal later I would still have a shred of respect and loyalty left for you, sorry to disappoint.
Try again, mr. "I need a **Filtered** scapegoat to cover my butt."

I'm with universe on this one. I got pointed to the issue at the beginning of february. Around 1st of Feb
Uni's pm came ~10 days later, by this time I was already monitoring both the test server and the main server for its use.
And it came about half a day later AFTER that topic got started.

About people "like SA" i.e. those who knew about the bug but didn't use much or at all (if they wish they can post who they are, they know it well enough), SA being actually the only one in that group who didn't use it even a single time, considering they haven't received any punishment whatsoever, maybe except my disappointing feelings....

Universe wrote:I received a rather funny PM from dear Vesper, who decided I sent messages way before I did.

I would like to ask Admin to confirm the time he received my message, if he can be bothered (it would be understandable if you're not).

Vesper wrote:There were still some doubts about you being ~B and you were going to be left alone. But after this shows up that you reported a bug and let most of TIE take the fall including SA is a very low blow. The bug was reported over a week by you before anybody even mentioned that you might be ~B. You just proved our suspicions.

Cheers

Ian's lengthy exposé.
Be All Thy Sins Remembered
Post by ian on Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:39 am

My first reply to Ian's lengthy exposé.
Re: Be All Thy Sins Remembered
Post by Universe on Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:56 am

My message to Admin.
SERIOUS BUG!! BaseO.php?=
Admin - Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:58 pm


Note the timestamps, anyone?

I sent that message to admin before you said I was ~B? I sent the PM after you decided to crucify me to cover up your own stupidity, or your conspiracy, whatever the heck that whole episode was. If you thought that some 10 hours of abuse and betrayal later I would still have a shred of respect and loyalty left for you, sorry to disappoint.
Try again, mr. "I need a **Filtered** scapegoat to cover my butt."

Reporting the bug was the right thing to do and I thank you for that!

I am sure that I am not alone if I say that you have done the righ thing Universe!

Uni abused the bug for over a month then reported it because she was upset with TIE and wanted to get people in trouble. Some can view that honorable, some not so honorable. Either way good thing its over with.

I may not 100% agree with the Uni thing, while it points to Yes... But I have to agree with Admin and Uni on this one

I'm with universe on this one. I got pointed to the issue at the beginning of february. Around 1st of Feb
Uni's pm came ~10 days later, by this time I was already monitoring both the test server and the main server for its use.

I am fully aware of at least some of the uses of the bug by some people before the 1st of Feb vesper, thank you very much for clearing that up.

Whether or not the timing of Uni telling me about it was an honorable thing to do is a matter of very very very seriously big time lengthy discussion and I would very much appreciate if it could be avoided, at least in this thread (though it would make a good discussion this whole "loyalty to alliance or to fair play" thing)
I think it's clear there are hardly any innocents one way or another in this matter.

Hard decisions are part of life. It's not a game where you chose one road, finish till the end, then load and pick the other option and see how it goes.

Admin wrote:I am fully aware of at least some of the uses of the bug by some people before the 1st of Feb vesper, thank you very much for clearing that up.

Whether or not the timing of Uni telling me about it was an honorable thing to do is a matter of very very very seriously big time lengthy discussion and I would very much appreciate if it could be avoided, at least in this thread (though it would make a good discussion this whole "loyalty to alliance or to fair play" thing)
I think it's clear there are hardly any innocents one way or another in this matter.

Hard decisions are part of life. It's not a game where you chose one road, finish till the end, then load and pick the other option and see how it goes.

Whats done is done and can't be undone. Now all that is left is to learn from it and move onto the future. I think everyone has learnt from this... or at least hopefully have.

The biggest thing I think we learned from this bug encounter, is that the penalty system needs to modified and improved. Or else future incidents are doomed to go on for numerous forum pages like this one. (If we look back at former penalties for exploits and compare them, it isn't that hard to notice a difference in severity of the punishments. Some of the punishments didn't seem to match the crimes, but others exceeded them. )

Admin wrote: maybe except my disappointing feelings....

Martin, please stop the drama show.

Your brother got info that could only have came from you. That you willingly gave that info or not I don't really care.

So it's no shock at all that the other alliances beside WR won't report this kind of bug to you.

rflash wrote:Your brother got info that could only have came from you. That you willingly gave that info or not I don't really care.

Aside from the fact that I dont even have a clue about what info you're talking about (since no such info exists)....
Is there any proof you'd ever accept that what you just said is not true? Just like a number of other people who share your sentiments?
Please dont fuel speculations if you dont want to discuss them earnestly.

Assuming we follow this fairytale and kenzu does have access to any/all messages, logs and whatnot. Do you really think he'd do such a poor job at using them to his advantage in whatever way possible? Even considering the opinion some of the people have about his character, whatever that opinion is...
Because if we assume he does get any info and the cat is out of the bag about him getting it, why the h wouldn't then he start making full use of it? Cos it sure as hell wouldn't make any difference to what the others think anyway anymore

This whole "admin passes info to kenzu" logic is flawed. It is an opinion, even though shared by quite a number of peple, but I do not plan on doing anything against it because I do not see a cost effective solution to it besides deleting kenzu's account, which is a BS thing to do obviously.

However if someone has a solution how to persuade those who have honest wishes to know the truth then I welcome them to share it.