Off/Def weapon swapping

This came to me as I was playing the test server. I was messing some guy up testing stuff out and I saw a few odd things that lead me to this idea. His weapons were damaged, so i assume it was damaged before the server was copied.

Jest of the idea, Whats the difference between an offensive machine gun or tank, and a defensive machine gun or tank? Why can you not move one to the other? Is it a sound idea with tactical uses to allow that to be done?

Example
Player A has
50K Att supers with 50K Main Battle Tanks
50K Def supers with 50K Main Battle Tanks

Player B assaults player A, Assasinates and sabotages as well. End result is player A has
50K Att supers with 50K Main Battle Tanks
25K Def supers with 0 Main Battle Tanks.

Now as it stands he would have to fully buy his defensive weapons and wait for them to be manufactured, all with a standing strike.

My question is can it be made so that he can process some of his Att weapons over to defensive weapons? If so how? at what limitations? and at what cost?

I've been juggling with the idea of dividing weapon research into offensive and defensive (for a number of reasons, amongst others that i could give daning bonus to attack research and miraya to defense research)


from a coding perspective, dunno would be easily doable within 5 minutes
but for practical purposes, sure it'd be a neat thing. but i think the game needs a simpler interface first, before an option like this gets added

But i'm still against this, if this would be limited to make attack weapons into defense weapons then maybe

I would not be against it, if it would not enable people to be smart and abuse the system to switch their attack weapons after they massed someone, or farmed, to defense weapons to protect themselves from a counter attack.

Kenzu wrote:I would not be against it, if it would not enable people to be smart and abuse the system to switch their attack weapons after they massed someone, or farmed, to defense weapons to protect themselves from a counter attack.

What about selling the weapons?... now you loose kuwal. Then you will not loose anymore... hey i wanna raid let's switch.

This ideea from this thread is messed up. Don't forget that the STs are a measure of time in the game. So when you attack someone, your troops are said to be gone in an military expedition... How do you switch the weapons when your troops are supposed to be far away?

Nigatsu_Aka wrote:

Kenzu wrote:I would not be against it, if it would not enable people to be smart and abuse the system to switch their attack weapons after they massed someone, or farmed, to defense weapons to protect themselves from a counter attack.

What about selling the weapons?... now you loose kuwal. Then you will not loose anymore... hey i wanna raid let's switch.

This ideea from this thread is messed up. Don't forget that the ATs are a measure of time in the game. So when you attack someone, your troops are said to be gone in an military expedition... for 10 turns... or 5 hours equivalent in real time or... X eons in local galactical time. How do you switch the weapons when your troops are supposed to be far away?

I don't think Attack Turns are meant ot be viewed as the same length of time as game turns, as you can attack hundreds of times in a min (Depending on STs etc) with the same strike soldiers, which you couldn't do if one attack took 10 game turns/5hours.

-Alex

Alex wrote:

Nigatsu_Aka wrote:

Kenzu wrote:I would not be against it, if it would not enable people to be smart and abuse the system to switch their attack weapons after they massed someone, or farmed, to defense weapons to protect themselves from a counter attack.

What about selling the weapons?... now you loose kuwal. Then you will not loose anymore... hey i wanna raid let's switch.

This ideea from this thread is messed up. Don't forget that the ATs are a measure of time in the game. So when you attack someone, your troops are said to be gone in an military expedition... for 10 turns... or 5 hours equivalent in real time or... X eons in local galactical time. How do you switch the weapons when your troops are supposed to be far away?

I don't think Attack Turns are meant ot be viewed as the same length of time as game turns, as you can attack hundreds of times in a min (Depending on STs etc) with the same strike soldiers, which you couldn't do if one attack took 10 game turns/5hours.

-Alex

Sorry... i messed up a bit. I meant STs - that's why they can't be traded. Logical as you can't trade time. It is a simple way to allow people to play more of the game time in less real time. ATs on the other hand are the infrastructure... example: trains, transporters that carry fuel, ammonition, etc.

Nigatsu_Aka wrote:

Kenzu wrote:I would not be against it, if it would not enable people to be smart and abuse the system to switch their attack weapons after they massed someone, or farmed, to defense weapons to protect themselves from a counter attack.

What about selling the weapons?... now you loose kuwal. Then you will not loose anymore... hey i wanna raid let's switch.

This ideea from this thread is messed up. Don't forget that the STs are a measure of time in the game. So when you attack someone, your troops are said to be gone in an military expedition... How do you switch the weapons when your troops are supposed to be far away?

You make a Damn good point Nigatsu, but don't throw the entire idea out. Look at it from the other side as well. An account with a 0ed defense, but a standing strike trying to get back on its feet as vultures circle around.

I would also like to highlight the first post about this

Nomad wrote:
My question is can it be made so that he can process some of his Att weapons over to defensive weapons? If so how? at what limitations? and at what cost?

Now you will see I asked for discussion on the exact points you raised.

First question was is it worth it? is it something we as a community thinks is needed/wanted?
Secondly I definitely impied a limitation and a cost to do it.

i think that its an interesting idea, but a power penalty would be required (basically, since attack soldiers are not trained in defense, they will not be quite as effective, but still get the job done)

while we are at it, what if one more unit was introduced, one that inherently is a little weaker then either super, but can switch between strike and defense with no penalty. This of course, would have to make them much more expensive, but their power would be stronger then an attack super transferred to defense.

A generalized super i guess

slambot#4 wrote:i think that its an interesting idea, but a power penalty would be required (basically, since attack soldiers are not trained in defense, they will not be quite as effective, but still get the job done)

We are talking about switching weapons, not soldiers. There should be no power penalty. Just a cost in order to do it. I think this could prove to be quite useful.

Yeah, thats what I meant Slam, but im not against the "generalized" super idea.

Maybe it should be possible to transfer weapons from defense to attack and back, but I don't think costs in kuwal are necessary.

What I would support however would be that it take 1 week or 3 days for the weapons to reach the army (it has to be transported from attacking army to the defending army). During this time, no one can use it.

but it could be easily abused to hide weapons if someone is attacked, or to prevent them being destroyed, so it's questionable if we need that at all.

Afterall you can buy weapons instantly in the weapons dealer, so many new options have already opened up.

3 days to a week?? that makes the idea useless as you can build your own in that amount of time Kenzu?

but yes new options have been opened up.

What about a certain ST cost, if you think about it, Supply Turns could/should be able to SUPPLY your Def army with your Atk's weapons (Among other things)

Say, transferring 28,000 MBKs would cost 163 ST, and take 2-8 turns to complete.

I dont think it would make sense to be able to move defense weapons to strike as people will just arm a huge defense and sit to bank kuwal then if a war breaks out they just switch half to strike and mass everyone, makes no sense and would remove any strategy. I dont even see the point in really making it so strike weapons can be moved to defense really since it is now impossible to zero a defense unless you use a ton of ST.

Maybe if you really really felt it was needed make it so 10% of the strike weapons can be converted to defense. I dont see the point though as you can go onto 1 day of protection and build a medium sized defense anyway. Or if you really felt like you needed the weapons right away there is now a black market weapons dealer. You could ask admin to adjust the rates on that rather then writing up new code and editing the interface again. I can see where you guys are coming from but I really just dont see the tactical advantage of being able to move the weapons around other then just for the hell of it.

Well the idea was put out before the new updates, and those updates effected the idea drasticly. As for your 10% idea thats useless because how does the server know what 10% is? you convert 10%, then convert another 10%, and another.


The basis of the idea was a way to build a defense back Quicker then doing it the old fashioned way, but at a much higher cost. (Cost in loss of strike and cost of resources in doing the swapping).

As it stands now I don't think this idea is useful anymore because the new updates have fairly well made it useless, and thats a good thing.