Alliance War Experience?

by ian Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:19 pm

Hey Admin.

Question for you: Does the Alliance War Experience factor in just killed enemy units.. or killed & wounded units?

I.e. I m assuming you remembered to update the alliance-war experience after you implemented the wounded update? But can I just confirm please?

i.e. 1million Killed defence soldiers = 1million actually killed defence soldiers (which means another 1million soldiers got wounded on top of that etc...) or does 1million killed infact in reality = 500k killed & 500k wounded?

Cheers

by Admin Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:04 pm

killed means killed, wounded is wounded

wounded not included in war exp

unlike in ra, i would like to add

by Nomad Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:26 pm

Why do you not get 1/2 the EXP of killing a unit when you wound it? You should get something shouldn't you?

by kingkongfan1 Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:38 pm

Admin wrote:killed means killed, wounded is wounded

wounded not included in war exp

unlike in ra, i would like to add

I do not know what I have put in bold & underlined means... All I know is that the rest of this post makes me very upset, I figured that this would happen, that is why I fought so hard against this update, this very fact should have been made much more clear... I was wondering why my xp wasn't adding up in our war with Mujengan, now I fully know why... honestly knowing this now, I would really like to see the wounded removed & go back to the old way of build em, & kill em...

I'm gonna go vomit now...

by Admin Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:55 am

Nomad wrote:Why do you not get 1/2 the EXP of killing a unit when you wound it? You should get something shouldn't you?

could get arranged

by Nomad Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:33 pm

Admin wrote:
Nomad wrote:Why do you not get 1/2 the EXP of killing a unit when you wound it? You should get something shouldn't you?
could get arranged

Well I mean you should get something shouldnt you?

Now you made me think about something else, what happens to mercs? Do they die 100% do they die at 50% are they counted as supers and give the same EXP when killed? Exactly how do they work?

by kingkongfan1 Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:41 pm

first I would like to apologize for my previous post, I was a bit angry when I posted it, sorry if I offended anyone.... Anyway I have several questions now that this subject has been brought up, it could get lengthy so bear with me...

Items Destroyed/Stolen
Attack Soldiers Killed (80)
Attack Mercs Killed (60)
Defense Soldiers Killed (200)
Defense Mercs Killed (150)
Spies Killed (60)
Assassins Killed (60)
Workers Killed (50)
Miners Killed (50)
Weapons Destroyed (0.0002)

the above is what I believe to be a list of Items & their corresponding XP value. (if I am wrong, then Admin can correct me.)

Machine Gun = 3xp
Grenade Launcher = 5xp
Heavy Morter = 11.4xp
APC = 22.4xp
IFV = 36.8xp
MBT = 61.6xp
MA = ???
MLRS = ???

the above is a list of what xp each weapon gives when destroyed, sorry I do not have the correct costs of either MA, or MLRS so I could not figure the XP for them...

Battle Report

kingkongfan1's soldiers march onto the battlefield.

kingkongfan1's army was composed of:
0 Super Soldiers, 250,000 Regular Soldiers and 0 Mercenaries

250000 Regular Soldiers were armed with Main Battle Tank

[xxx] awaited the invaders with the following:
0 Super Soldiers, 5,363 Regular Soldiers and 0 Mercenaries

234 Regular Soldiers were armed with MLRS
26 Regular Soldiers were armed with IFV
95 Regular Soldiers were armed with APC
5008 Regular Soldiers came unarmed

Your field scouts report on the status of the enemy: The invaders deal 5,493,577,246 damage on the enemy!
This results in 30 casualties amongst the defending troops!
The defending forces return fire and inflict 6,549,267 damage on their opponents!
They manage to cause 14 casualties in their enemies ranks!

kingkongfan1's forces Defeated the enemy!

As[xxx] army runs from the battlefield the victors finish their assigned mission and return home:
It is reported that 565,325,950 Kuwal has been taken from the realm of [xxx]

Now let us dissect the above battlelog for a moment... (A).the above states that I "killed" 30 defending troops,(6,000xp) when in fact I only "killed" 15 defending troops, (3,000xp). I "wounded" the other 15,(no xp at all)...(B). the above log does not state what kind of weapon i destroyed in this attack, (xp = ?) I will go ahead & assume that I destroyed 30 weapons based on the fact that we do not have "broken weapons" in the game, If I am wrong then someone can correct me...

Also even though I do not an example on hand to show, I do know from prior battles that battlelogs do not differentiate between defense soldiers "killed",(200xp per) & defense merc's "killed",(150xp per). only 1 number of units is given, so I ask, (C). How do we know the difference between the units we killed? if there wasn't a difference in the XP then it wouldn't matter IMO, but since there is a difference it does matter...

finally, (D). to kill a spy, assassin, worker, miner, or destroy MBT, all give about the same xp,(50 - 61.6)... I was wondering,,, having a hard time trying to explain what I am thinking,,, basically should the Xp value be based off the amount of turns needed to achieve an action?
***EXAMPLE***
destroy a MBT = 5AT's & 5ST's = 61.6xp
kill workers/miners = 5AT's & 25ST's = 50xp

you spend more turns with less XP value... basicly I think you should get more XP for "killing" a unit, than you get for destroying a weapon... JMO.

by Kingofshinobis1 Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:53 pm

MAs = 104.4 points

MRLSs = 172.8 points

just in case you were wondering kong. it can all be found out in the weapons dealer page

by kingkongfan1 Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:05 pm

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:MAs = 104.4 points

MRLSs = 172.8 points

just in case you were wondering kong. it can all be found out in the weapons dealer page

cool, thanks KoS...

by Admin Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:19 pm

@ nomad, yes i can imagine even wounding units should count for something
mercs die 100% no wounded, i think it should say so in updates page too

@ king xp dunno you should consider that the values look differently when you use low level weapons and high level weapons as you have posted yourself

that's the issue with mixing 2 inherently different values

by Kenzu Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:41 pm

It would have been much better if killing wounded would either affect all units in all missions or none. At the same time war exp should always count for all units, including the wounded ones.

The way it is now, massing gives only half of the war exp it used to for the uu.

also the losses should include wounded units too.
In other words not show number of killed, but number of casualties. Because wounded who cant fight right now are casualties too.

by kingkongfan1 Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:03 pm

I have something here that I would like to discuss, ultimately if it cannot be done, just say so & I will let it go... Also I will be putting my comments in green to better explain what I am trying to say...

Battle Report

kingkongfan1's soldiers march onto the battlefield.

kingkongfan1's army was composed of:
0 Super Soldiers, 232,509 Regular Soldiers and 0 Mercenaries

232508 Regular Soldiers were armed with Main Battle Tank
1 Regular Soldiers came unarmed

[XXXX] awaited the invaders with the following:
0 Super Soldiers, 173,533 Regular Soldiers and 8,406 Mercenaries

8406 Mercenaries were armed with Mobile Artillery
139139 Regular Soldiers were armed with Mobile Artillery
34394 Regular Soldiers came unarmed
You will note that this player has both regular soldiers, & Merc's.

Your field scouts report on the status of the enemy: The invaders deal 4,859,417,200 damage on the enemy!
This results in 6,522 casualties amongst the defending troops!
we already know that this attack resulted in only 3261 casualities, (half killed, half wounded). my question is this,,, of the 3261 casualities, how many were merc's, & how many were regular soldiers?
The defending forces return fire and inflict 3,873,388,226 damage on their opponents!
They manage to cause 7,266 casualties in their enemies ranks!

As [XXXX] army runs from the battlefield the victors finish their assigned mission and return home:

I guess what I am asking is this, is it possible to get a better breakdown on the battle logs of 1) the number of units killed/wounded? 2) the difference between normal soldiers/merc's killed?
Example...

6522 units involved, 3261 killed, 3261 wounded
of the 3261 killed, 2261 were normal soldiers, 1000 were merc's...

or something similar to the above... If it cannot be done, then just say so & i will not speak of this any further...

by Kenzu Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:10 pm

Admin wrote:
Nomad wrote:Why do you not get 1/2 the EXP of killing a unit when you wound it? You should get something shouldn't you?
could get arranged

I prefer to gain XP like before, namely get same XP for killed and wounded.

by Nomad Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:24 pm

kingkongfan1 wrote:I have something here that I would like to discuss, ultimately if it cannot be done, just say so & I will let it go... Also I will be putting my comments in green to better explain what I am trying to say...

Spoiler:

Well it is lop sided to have mercs killed at 100%, and UU killed at 50%, and only given EXP for 50% and there is no way to know if the numbers are running correctly or if they are bugged as presently no one but admin can check the numbers.

I do hope this is visited, and looked at.

by kingkongfan1 Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:57 pm

kingkongfan1 wrote:I have something here that I would like to discuss, ultimately if it cannot be done, just say so & I will let it go... Also I will be putting my comments in green to better explain what I am trying to say...

Battle Report

kingkongfan1's soldiers march onto the battlefield.

kingkongfan1's army was composed of:
0 Super Soldiers, 232,509 Regular Soldiers and 0 Mercenaries

232508 Regular Soldiers were armed with Main Battle Tank
1 Regular Soldiers came unarmed

[XXXX] awaited the invaders with the following:
0 Super Soldiers, 173,533 Regular Soldiers and 8,406 Mercenaries

8406 Mercenaries were armed with Mobile Artillery
139139 Regular Soldiers were armed with Mobile Artillery
34394 Regular Soldiers came unarmed
You will note that this player has both regular soldiers, & Merc's.

Your field scouts report on the status of the enemy: The invaders deal 4,859,417,200 damage on the enemy!
This results in 6,522 casualties amongst the defending troops!
we already know that this attack resulted in only 3261 casualities, (half killed, half wounded). my question is this,,, of the 3261 casualities, how many were merc's, & how many were regular soldiers?
The defending forces return fire and inflict 3,873,388,226 damage on their opponents!
They manage to cause 7,266 casualties in their enemies ranks!

As [XXXX] army runs from the battlefield the victors finish their assigned mission and return home:

I guess what I am asking is this, is it possible to get a better breakdown on the battle logs of 1) the number of units killed/wounded? 2) the difference between normal soldiers/merc's killed?
Example...

6522 units involved, 3261 killed, 3261 wounded
of the 3261 killed, 2261 were normal soldiers, 1000 were merc's...

or something similar to the above... If it cannot be done, then just say so & i will not speak of this any further...

NEW POST BELOW...
BUMP... it seems like Admin has a lot going these days, so I am not going to push for an immediate response here,,, I do however want to keep this topic fresh & ongoing until a proper discussion can be had on it... thank you.

by Admin Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:26 pm

I was thinking about it and tbh I'm not "seeing" some issues.

Mercs have the same "killed" rate as normal units, so if you have 1k mercs, 9k soldiers and you lose 200 units then you automatically know that you lose 20 mercs and 180 normal units of which 90 are killed and 90 wounded.

that and the fact that you can simply read the last log, see how much you started out with and then compare with what you're left.

yes it is possible to have it display (or more accurately, to have it calculate who lost what type of units) when you're looking at the attack log.

by kingkongfan1 Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:42 pm

Admin wrote:I was thinking about it and tbh I'm not "seeing" some issues.

Mercs have the same "killed" rate as normal units, so if you have 1k mercs, 9k soldiers and you lose 200 units then you automatically know that you lose 20 mercs and 180 normal units of which 90 are killed and 90 wounded.

that and the fact that you can simply read the last log, see how much you started out with and then compare with what you're left.

yes it is possible to have it display (or more accurately, to have it calculate who lost what type of units) when you're looking at the attack log.

Wait,,, you just threw a bunch o info at me that I didn't know, so let me process...

in the previous post that I put up, showing the battle log & the numbers involved in that single attack, we "know" the following...
1) that there were 8406 merc's...
2) that there were 173,533 normal soldiers, some armed some not...
3) there were 6,522 defenders units total involved...
4) there were 3,261 killed/wounded...
5) of the 3,261 killed units [XXX] were normal defense soldiers worth 200 xp each...
6) of the 3,261 killed units [XXX] were defense merc's worth 150 xp each...

I (for whatever reason) do not know, cannot figure out the "kill" rate for these units, so would some kind person please fill out the [XXX]'s in numbers 5, & 6, so I can stop feeling stupid?

@Admin,,, do not be offended by what I am about to say, but you & "see" things that I do not, you also "know" things that I do not, I am not prone to pushing this any further, as I (think) I got the answer I was looking for,(smarter players than I will explain it to me, lol)... so thanks to whomever fills in the [XXX]'s for me...

by Admin Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:29 pm

you had 1 merc for every 20.64 soldiers you sent to battle
you will lose 1 merc for every 20.64 soldiers you lose.

That means out of every 21.64 units you have lost, 1 will be a merc and 20.64 will be normal soldiers.

3,261 units lost is 150.7 groups of 21.64 units.
That means you have lost 150.7 times 1 merc (150 mercs in total)
and 150.7 times 20.64 soldiers (3,111 soldiers in total)
Of these 3,111 half will be killed and half will be wounded (killed units probably get rounded up and wounded get rounded down since otherwise you could end up with losing 1 unit which would always be just a wouneded one)

FYI: I have used only division and multiplication. The only numbers I needed was amount of mercs, amount of soldiers and total units lost. How many % of soldiers you lose, or what strike or defense was doing battle is completely irrelevant

by kingkongfan1 Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:56 pm

Admin wrote:you had 1 merc for every 20.64 soldiers you sent to battle
you will lose 1 merc for every 20.64 soldiers you lose.

That means out of every 21.64 units you have lost, 1 will be a merc and 20.64 will be normal soldiers.

3,261 units lost is 150.7 groups of 21.64 units.
That means you have lost 150.7 times 1 merc (150 mercs in total)
and 150.7 times 20.64 soldiers (3,111 soldiers in total)
Of these 3,111 half will be killed and half will be wounded (killed units probably get rounded up and wounded get rounded down since otherwise you could end up with losing 1 unit which would always be just a wouneded one)

FYI: I have used only division and multiplication. The only numbers I needed was amount of mercs, amount of soldiers and total units lost. How many % of soldiers you lose, or what strike or defense was doing battle is completely irrelevant

cool, thanks for the explaination, the part above that I put in bold & underlined, was that number from my example? I ask because the 3,261 that I used is the half that were killed. (the origional number was 6,522 uu involved, 3,261 wounded, & 3,261 killed)...

by Admin Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:47 pm

k so change:
3,261 units lost is 150.7 groups of 21.64 units

to
6,522 units lost is 301.4 groups of 21.64 units

and adapt the final calculations and you have your result. sorry read incorrectly

by Nomad Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:34 pm

ok I'm lost now, how can mercs have the same kill ratio as normal units?

Looks like its 1 to 20.64?

What did I miss?

*Edit

And what was decided on XP for injured UU? we going to get any or not?

by Admin Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:23 am

Nomad wrote:ok I'm lost now, how can mercs have the same kill ratio as normal units?

Looks like its 1 to 20.64?

What did I miss?

*Edit

And what was decided on XP for injured UU? we going to get any or not?

mercs have the same kill ratio, but if someone has 20 times more soldiers than mercs then you will obviously lose 20 times more soldiers than mercs if you take absolute values

totally stupid example:
you lose 2% of all units
2% is a relative value, so you send 200 mercs and 45000 soldiers (ratio of 1:225), both lose 2%
however in absolute values you will lose 4 mercs and 900 soldiers.

as you can see the relative values are identical (4 is 2% of 200 and 900 is 2% of 45000) but the absolute values are not.
the same can be applied to the losses. You sent 225 more soldiers than mercs, so obviously at the end of the day you will lose 225 more soldiers than mercs on each attack

injured will get a separate row in warexp since otherwise i would not be able to track global population anymore

by Nomad Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:18 am

makes perfect sense, thanks for the explination.

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