Truth of TIE vs ToC

I was delaying this section being created for some time but I feel that Ishurue now threatening to mass any person that voices their opinion about the war should be addressed.

Spoiler:

So being Ishurue thinks he can threaten the entire server into silence that is not in the war does that mean that ever person that posts about the war is subject to being massed? It appears that Ishurue wishes to divide the forums and have a people in war and people not in war section. So I will create this forum section for the non-aligned people. We can post here about our thoughts on the war and I am sure that those involved in the war will not be able to resist defending themselves since most are so very insecure.

I will be posting my story of what I discovered when I looked into both parties in the war later on when I have some time. Some rather disturbing things came to my attention. Feel free to post your thoughts and opinions without being judged in this section. Nobody will be massing you for saying how you feel here.

I know a lot about what happened in Hachigan/Mujengan/ToC but I'll see what everyone else has to say first Let the slagging match begin but lets try to keep the spam to a minimum please

Kingofshinobis and I did some serious digging since we left our alliances to discover the truth of the 2 empires.

During the 3 month period that Kenzu was no longer leader of WR (consequences/results of the first WR/TIE war), turmoil began to develop between TIE and Mujengan. During the war with WR and TIE, there was a public farming policy created for the server signed and agreed upon by every major alliance or at least adopted later by all. This farming policy initiated the disputes between TIE and Mujengan, because Mujengan was unhappy with the policy TIE was enforcing and this started the "toppling The Evil TIE plan".

Next, there was the cabal. For those of you who do not know, the Cabal was a player known as Universe. She was a TIE HC member that was feeding bits and pieces of the TIE forum discussions to FIRE. At the time, TIE was discussing how to handle the farming issues with the policy and how to deal with Mujengan who began to. Nobody knew who was sending the reports but it appeared that only Mujengan was receiving the reports and it was an alliance member of theirs that was mentioning the details of TIEs secrets on the forum. The conclusion that was drawn is that FIRE must be the ones picking through our forums and taking our secrets. The response from TIE was to "fight FIRE with FIRE" meaning we went to their forums and had a bit of fun. This caused FIRE to become angry and attempt to get in TIEs forum as well to no avail. After the failed attempt on TIEs forum, FIRE decided to trick everyone in their own alliance by "hacking" their own forum and deleted it in order to get support if a war on TIE happened and to stop all important information from getting into the wrong hands......TIEs hands. Kill two birds with one stone so to speak

Later, lighter heads prevailed and FIRE and TIE began to work together to solve the problem of cabal. Or well at least FIRE gave the impression that they would work together with TIE. Shortly after the 2 sides began to work together FIRE massed supcomthor, universe and ioz (3 TIE members, 2 of which were HC) because they saw TIE arming up and thought they were going to attack them first. There was also an attempt to mass the leader of TIE but a friend purchased a protection for him.

The next incident I regret bringing up but it is the truth and must be presented. I abused a bug. I along with (cabal) shared how to use this bug with a select few people. I told Ishurue about the bug shortly after finding it. At the time I was good friends with Ishurue and together him and I would work out the incomes of the other alliances and see where Mujengan stood. Ishurue would often message me on msn requesting that I help him figure out the incomes for WR. As an alliance leader Ishurue was unable to use this bug so he asked me to do it for him. Later on, after he felt he no longer needed me, he told Kingofshinobis to report the bug to admin and told his alliance mates to report it even though most of them had no idea what it was. For me, this was where I realized Ishurue's true self. I also had my own awakening and saw some of my major flaws in playing style and took a serious look in the mirror. Until this point I played the game with back stabbing and manipulation just like everyone else. I feel I came out as a much more honest player and now seek to find the truth in situations, hence this message.

I spent the next 40 days banned and only received occasional messaged regarding aderan. I checked the forums from time to time and tried to keep in touch with some friends. I feel that TIE died after the baseO incident and needed to be brought back to life. No better way to bring an alliance back to life then having two old enemies making a "friendship treaty". FIRE and WR formed a "friendship" treaty. Everyone can dispute the reasons for this treaty but the simple truth is that Ishurue and some others were still plotting against TIE and messaging alliances around the server to bring them to the cause. I know for a fact that Ishurue himself contacted Kenzu asking for his support in taking down TIE. He also messaged rflash who declined because he is busy working his new job and does not have much time. Aworon was another person contacted by Ishurue and lured into his web. TIE caught wind of these messages and began to take action. Luckily they took action before ^Speed^ got caught in the web as well.

I ask any of you reading this what you would do if you heard that there is a person attempting to gather an army against you, and the reason they are targeting you is because you are powerful in a game. The rest of the story was repeated many times on the forum so I will not go into great detail. Basically there were random sabotage and assassination missions against TIE and FIRE. Now being that TIE knows that there is a group of players and alliances out there plotting against them being lead by Lord Ishurue, the natural response was to contact Ishurue and ask that he allows a representative look at his alliances logs. Of course this request was denied for obvious reasons. TIE then "disbands" or in other words pretends to disband in an attempt to relieve the heat. After TIE goes secret FIRE gets hit and assumes its TIE naturally. 2 of our members joined under FIRE to allow them to look through their logs and a player was invited from Mujengan to join TIE to view the logs. I personally looked through the TIE logs and I can assure you that it was not a TIE member that did the attacks. Seaborgium also looked over all the logs and found nothing. Seaborgium may be the most level headed, honest, and fair person in TIE and I'm sure other players can attest to this as well. Suffice to say the threats continued against TIE. A pre-emptive attack was launched by TIE and that is what lead us to the present situation.

Many may attempt to dispute this but it is the truth. Both sides can argue over which parts about them are false but I checked the facts countless times and had this message read over a few times by a few people while I gathered the facts. This is a compilation of what has occurred on the server these past few months.

Two of the most informed players on the game decided to work together and create this post. Kingofshinobis, who joined under Ishurue's command in the forming of Hachigan and quickly became a friend and close advisor to Ishurue through the forming of Mujengan and myself, Vesper, who was one of the most trusted members of TIE and is still a good friend of Ian's for over 3 years. Both of us acted as close advisors to our leaders at the time and were told and took part in probably the most secretive operations of both alliances since their creatation. So basically we know what is up

Spoiler:

I, Kingofshinobis, Leader of TG and former Mujengan 2IC, confirm these statements to be true in its entirety.

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:

Spoiler:

I, Kingofshinobis, Leader of TG and former Mujengan 2IC, confirm these statements to be true in its entirety.

Does it mean that you also believe that Ishurue deleted his own forum?
Because I don't believe that.

Second, I am still reluctant to believe that Universe was behind cabal. I am not saying it isn't possible, but I still haven't seen solid facts confirming it. It also could have been a set up to draw attention away from the guilty ones. We should also consider the possibility that cabal could have been simply invented to take away heat between TIE and FIRE to prevent further escalation. If this was its purpose, then it worked.

All in all I enjoyed reading the post. Some interesting things happened on Aderan.

Kenzu wrote:
Does it mean that you also believe that Ishurue deleted his own forum?
Because I don't believe that.

Second, I am still reluctant to believe that Universe was behind cabal. I am not saying it isn't possible, but I still haven't seen solid facts confirming it. It also could have been a set up to draw attention away from the guilty ones. We should also consider the possibility that cabal could have been simply invented to take away heat between TIE and FIRE to prevent further escalation. If this was its purpose, then it worked.

All in all I enjoyed reading the post. Some interesting things happened on Aderan.

Yes Ishurue deleted his own forum as a ploy. That is the reason Fedaykn broke away from FIRE. They caught him in the middle of the act and left immediately.

I will address your concerns about cabal so you have a better understanding.. Cabal was the one that caused a majority of the tension and caused it to escalate in the first place. Cabal as it turns out was an old enemy of Ian's from a long time ago. Ian exposed some sort of secret about her and she sought her revenge on Aderan. She tried to create tension inside of TIE and outside. Not only was she feeding Mujengan half the story of what was said over TIE forums but she was also planting seeds of distrust among TIE. Many of TIE's HC were accused of being the leak from within the alliance. Seaborgium and myself were both framed for being cabal at some point but were later proven innocent. When I was framed by Uni as being cabal it nearly destroyed a few friendships I had. A few of the people that were viewed as trusted friends from TIE came to me accusing me of being the leak and betraying them all. My innocence was later proven when a time stamp in the code didn't match up correctly which proved that they were tampered with. The nail in the coffin came from tracking emails back through servers and IPs. It definitely took Aderan to a whole new level of war.

I do hope that more people from the other alliances involved in the war come to this section and ask questions. Between King and Myself we can cover just every question about FIRE or TIE. I would prefer we keep the questions based on what was said in the extended post though. There are a few questions that I may not answer based on principle and I may feel they are not sincere. I hope to keep this section targeted towards revealing the truth. Aderan has turned to a game of who can better cover their tracks with lies and deceit. I am annoyed with this style of game play so I hope that people will open their eyes and be more open.

I lolled.

So this Massively Pro-TIE, Anti-Ish message came from nothing but the desire to post the 'truth' of the matter regarding the so-called 'evidence' that TOC desired war long before this immediate war began?

I, for one, call bullshit on it.

For anyone else, the assumption that any party in this war is entirely innocent and the other is entirely evil is a gross and stupid error on YOUR part.

You all want the truth? the truth is in the foreword in the game faq:

Aderan Wars is a web based Massively Multiplayer Online Role Play Game (MMORPG), where players raise armies and fight for domination.

Kenzu wrote:

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:

Spoiler:

I, Kingofshinobis, Leader of TG and former Mujengan 2IC, confirm these statements to be true in its entirety.

Does it mean that you also believe that Ishurue deleted his own forum?
Because I don't believe that.

Second, I am still reluctant to believe that Universe was behind cabal. I am not saying it isn't possible, but I still haven't seen solid facts confirming it. It also could have been a set up to draw attention away from the guilty ones. We should also consider the possibility that cabal could have been simply invented to take away heat between TIE and FIRE to prevent further escalation. If this was its purpose, then it worked.

All in all I enjoyed reading the post. Some interesting things happened on Aderan.

The truth about who Cabal was gotten from an email sent ot Ish, and IP address used on TIE forums. As I was the one who told them how to check the IP of the sent email.

I knew this Uni from another game, SGW, she had also done something similar there.

Kenzu wrote:

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:

Spoiler:

I, Kingofshinobis, Leader of TG and former Mujengan 2IC, confirm these statements to be true in its entirety.

Does it mean that you also believe that Ishurue deleted his own forum?
Because I don't believe that..

Well its all the truth. Ish and I did some sneaky things on AW

farleshadow wrote:
I lolled.

So this Massively Pro-TIE, Anti-Ish message came from nothing but the desire to post the 'truth' of the matter regarding the so-called 'evidence' that TOC desired war long before this immediate war began?

I, for one, call bullshit on it.

For anyone else, the assumption that any party in this war is entirely innocent and the other is entirely evil is a gross and stupid error on YOUR part.

Unfortunately you don't have any idea about what really went on in Muj.

FarleShadow wrote:I lolled.

So this Massively Pro-TIE, Anti-Ish message came from nothing but the desire to post the 'truth' of the matter regarding the so-called 'evidence' that TOC desired war long before this immediate war began?

I, for one, call bullshit on it.

For anyone else, the assumption that any party in this war is entirely innocent and the other is entirely evil is a gross and stupid error on YOUR part.

Lol - the truth is what it is. If that truth shows one party to be more innocent than the other - then perhaps rather than calling it "BS" you should start to actually consider the possibility one party is more innocent than the other?

@ Kingofshinobis.. I don't suppose you have any msn logs/ messages/ forum print-screens or something to back up your & Vesper's claims?

I for one fully believe the above... namely because your not the first person to reveal the above to me. At least 3 other T.O.C members who were in HC positions have provided various bits & pieces of information which all put together give a similar story.

Well I for one have to question Kingofshinobi's intent and reason's for the information he is reveling. Why are you now basically turning on an old friend/alliance mate/alliance leader?


If you have a story you want to tell then why not tell it all in its entirety for all to see with as much proof as possible to back what you say?

Why the slow stream of information via PM's/MSN/etc? Why not lay it all out there and give TOC a chance to dispute or admit to your claims?

We did the post in the war section with less information in it. We did offer ToC a chance to dispute part of the story. For those of you feeling this message is Pro-TIE. Well perhaps that is because TIE really has not done their sneaky misleading stuff nearly as much as when we first went to war agaisnt WR. This post only shows details of what happened after TIEs wars with WR. TIE is not perfect by any means but for the last 5 months or so they really were not up to anything behind the scenes as everyone seems to think. Now if you were to get the fuill history of TIE from day one well then you can see as they changed on the game and how they matured. All of the bad evil TIE things were already made public on the forums. Hacking FIRE forums and all of that good stuff which is why they appeared to be evil and misleading. When really they just do not care enough to keep everything a secret. Mujengan on the other hand managed to keep things under wraps for some time and it may make them look bad now because everything is released at once.

Only thing that can be pinned on TIE and viewed as being evil would be a few sab and assassination missions against WR a while back. All of which I was responsible for with the bug. So that doesn't fall into the evil TIE category. More makes me evil back then. This is a message that highlights the major moves on the server that created the tension between FIRE and TIE. Farle what were you told that would make you feel that these posts are false?

People question if Ishurue really deleted his own forums. So we have 3 FIRE HC out of the 6 total. 2 of which are hardly active within the empire. Jiro, R0b3rt, Dune, Strary, KOS, and Ishurue. 3 of them say Ishurue deleted his own forums. Ishurue didnt inform his alliance as to what happened and left everyone to believe that someone else deleted them, while never denying he deleted them, then Jiro and R0b3rt were rarely informed of what was happening back then. I personally had to tell Jiro most of what was happening so that he can use his level head to explain things to Ishurue.

@SA47 Remember back in the Dark Crusade I had that post saying how TIE has turned and became like those that we hated? How we kept hitting people in WR even though we knew it was slaughter. Nobody seemed to notice what was going on until I pointed it out to them what they were doing. I think King is now looking back at what he took part in and sees the mistakes that were made. It also feels really good getting all of this off your chest I think.

Special Agent 47 wrote:Well I for one have to question Kingofshinobi's intent and reason's for the information he is reveling. Why are you now basically turning on an old friend/alliance mate/alliance leader?


If you have a story you want to tell then why not tell it all in its entirety for all to see with as much proof as possible to back what you say?

Why the slow stream of information via PM's/MSN/etc? Why not lay it all out there and give TOC a chance to dispute or admit to your claims?

I save all of my MSN convos with ishure and everyone else I talk to but I do delete them occasionally when I am asked to, so unfortunately I would not have any records of what I have said to be true and also, PMs get deleted after a certain amount of time and I never save any of them out of laziness. My intentions/reasons for posting this are simple. I wanted to see just how much ToC and Muj HC members actually knew about what was actually going on behind the scenes and what the original plan was. Apparently not a lot. You can choose to believe this or not but I assure you I talk on MSN with ish enough to know exactly what was planned and said. Also, I don't like to look at it as turning on him but rather laying all the cards out on the table. I actually kinda expect him to respect me more now that he knows that none of this was ever leaked beforehand. It's time to get all the facts straight and stop with the lies and deceit. Mine and ishs plan failed miserably (well it was not a total loss at least ) but at least we put on one hell of a show

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:

Special Agent 47 wrote:Well I for one have to question Kingofshinobi's intent and reason's for the information he is reveling. Why are you now basically turning on an old friend/alliance mate/alliance leader?


If you have a story you want to tell then why not tell it all in its entirety for all to see with as much proof as possible to back what you say?

Why the slow stream of information via PM's/MSN/etc? Why not lay it all out there and give TOC a chance to dispute or admit to your claims?

I save all of my MSN convos with ishure and everyone else I talk to but I do delete them occasionally when I am asked to, so unfortunately I would not have any records of what I have said to be true and also, PMs get deleted after a certain amount of time and I never save any of them out of laziness. My intentions/reasons for posting this are simple. I wanted to see just how much ToC and Muj HC members actually knew about what was actually going on behind the scenes and what the original plan was. Apparently not a lot. You can choose to believe this or not but I assure you I talk on MSN with ish enough to know exactly what was planned and said. Also, I don't like to look at it as turning on him but rather laying all the cards out on the table. I actually kinda expect him to respect me more now that he knows that none of this was ever leaked beforehand. It's time to get all the facts straight and stop with the lies and deceit. Mine and ishs plan failed miserably (well it was not a total loss at least ) but at least we put on one hell of a show

Words of a traitor are not necessarily trustworthy, especially if he has a hidden agenda. I see no reason why you would approve of what Vesper said. Some things sound true, but many others sound too crazy to be true.

ian wrote:

FarleShadow wrote:I lolled.

So this Massively Pro-TIE, Anti-Ish message came from nothing but the desire to post the 'truth' of the matter regarding the so-called 'evidence' that TOC desired war long before this immediate war began?

I, for one, call bullshit on it.

For anyone else, the assumption that any party in this war is entirely innocent and the other is entirely evil is a gross and stupid error on YOUR part.

Lol - the truth is what it is. If that truth shows one party to be more innocent than the other - then perhaps rather than calling it "BS" you should start to actually consider the possibility one party is more innocent than the other?

@ Kingofshinobis.. I don't suppose you have any msn logs/ messages/ forum print-screens or something to back up your & Vesper's claims?

I for one fully believe the above... namely because your not the first person to reveal the above to me. At least 3 other T.O.C members who were in HC positions have provided various bits & pieces of information which all put together give a similar story.

Who? And what did they say?
You could have saved us some time and tell us who told you what, or simply not posted at all, if you were not planning to tell us in the first place.

Your assumptions based on your "puzzle" may be incorrect.

Kenzu wrote:Words of a traitor are not necessarily trustworthy, especially if he has a hidden agenda. I see no reason why you would approve of what Vesper said. Some things sound true, but many others sound too crazy to be true.

Why shouldn't I approve? I mean, me signing it would only bring more people to believe it. Why don't you ask ish just how much of this is true lol? He hasn't posted yet.

kenzu wrote:

ian wrote:

FarleShadow wrote:I lolled.

So this Massively Pro-TIE, Anti-Ish message came from nothing but the desire to post the 'truth' of the matter regarding the so-called 'evidence' that TOC desired war long before this immediate war began?

I, for one, call bullshit on it.

For anyone else, the assumption that any party in this war is entirely innocent and the other is entirely evil is a gross and stupid error on YOUR part.

Lol - the truth is what it is. If that truth shows one party to be more innocent than the other - then perhaps rather than calling it "BS" you should start to actually consider the possibility one party is more innocent than the other?

@ Kingofshinobis.. I don't suppose you have any msn logs/ messages/ forum print-screens or something to back up your & Vesper's claims?

I for one fully believe the above... namely because your not the first person to reveal the above to me. At least 3 other T.O.C members who were in HC positions have provided various bits & pieces of information which all put together give a similar story.

Who? And what did they say?
You could have saved us some time and tell us who told you what, or simply not posted at all, if you were not planning to tell us in the first place.

Your assumptions based on your "puzzle" may be incorrect.

Maybe he is trying to protect their identities but I don't see why he doesn't post what they said .

I have spoken to ishurue about this and I edited what he wanted edited. As far as I can tell he doesnt disagree with anything said in the extended post. He may come and post later on.

Kenzu wrote:

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:

Special Agent 47 wrote:Well I for one have to question Kingofshinobi's intent and reason's for the information he is reveling. Why are you now basically turning on an old friend/alliance mate/alliance leader?


If you have a story you want to tell then why not tell it all in its entirety for all to see with as much proof as possible to back what you say?

Why the slow stream of information via PM's/MSN/etc? Why not lay it all out there and give TOC a chance to dispute or admit to your claims?

I save all of my MSN convos with ishure and everyone else I talk to but I do delete them occasionally when I am asked to, so unfortunately I would not have any records of what I have said to be true and also, PMs get deleted after a certain amount of time and I never save any of them out of laziness. My intentions/reasons for posting this are simple. I wanted to see just how much ToC and Muj HC members actually knew about what was actually going on behind the scenes and what the original plan was. Apparently not a lot. You can choose to believe this or not but I assure you I talk on MSN with ish enough to know exactly what was planned and said. Also, I don't like to look at it as turning on him but rather laying all the cards out on the table. I actually kinda expect him to respect me more now that he knows that none of this was ever leaked beforehand. It's time to get all the facts straight and stop with the lies and deceit. Mine and ishs plan failed miserably (well it was not a total loss at least ) but at least we put on one hell of a show

Words of a traitor are not necessarily trustworthy, especially if he has a hidden agenda. I see no reason why you would approve of what Vesper said. Some things sound true, but many others sound too crazy to be true.

ian wrote:

FarleShadow wrote:I lolled.

So this Massively Pro-TIE, Anti-Ish message came from nothing but the desire to post the 'truth' of the matter regarding the so-called 'evidence' that TOC desired war long before this immediate war began?

I, for one, call bullshit on it.

For anyone else, the assumption that any party in this war is entirely innocent and the other is entirely evil is a gross and stupid error on YOUR part.

Lol - the truth is what it is. If that truth shows one party to be more innocent than the other - then perhaps rather than calling it "BS" you should start to actually consider the possibility one party is more innocent than the other?

@ Kingofshinobis.. I don't suppose you have any msn logs/ messages/ forum print-screens or something to back up your & Vesper's claims?

I for one fully believe the above... namely because your not the first person to reveal the above to me. At least 3 other T.O.C members who were in HC positions have provided various bits & pieces of information which all put together give a similar story.

Who? And what did they say?
You could have saved us some time and tell us who told you what, or simply not posted at all, if you were not planning to tell us in the first place.

Your assumptions based on your "puzzle" may be incorrect.

Kenzu - which bits sound massively crazy to be true?

Was it the FIRE forum being deleted by Lord Ishurue himself? In that case I d remind you you have Kingofshinobis, Staryagger & Dune all saying LI did it - and then Jiro, Lord Ishurue & Roberts as the other HC member... of which Jiro & Roberts at that time were mainly clueless about current events (no offense guys... but you really weren't keeping uptodate with thing's).

Or is it the actual "topple TIE" plan? In which case I d remind you months and months ago in the FIRE HC section Lord Ishurue created a post which specifically laid out FIRE's intentions to seek an alliance with World Republic and other alliances so as to one day confront The Imperium with the aim of crippling our power & influence.

Jiro & Others accept that post really was created. They however deny it was followed - saying it was created in the heat of emotion. However we have other members saying that plan was followed all along - and if we look at reality... its easy to conclude it was:

- We have WR & FIRE allying together at first in a defensive alliance

- We then have WR & FIRE supporting one another's farming policy. This is NO LONGER defensive alliance btw - where you state support for one another's policies... which the policies themselves state targets will get massed if they breach the policies (there's nothing wrong with the farming policies for the record - just pointing out WR & FIRE's alliance wasn't as defensive as you would like to have people believe lol).

- We have numerous provocations against The Imperium (sabbing & assassinating of our members, massive increased farming of our members, LI's personal policy designed to specifically challenge & violate TIE's policy etc...)

- We have FIRE actively contacting other alliances - Pohida & Emperor's (@ Aworon, we heard from one of your own members btw incase your wondering how TIE knew about your links to FIRE) to form an alliance.

- We have an active deception campaign (in the week's leading up to this war Aworon contacted me and was attempting to convince TIE the neutrality of Emperor's - which continued right up to and including the pre-Nap discussions).

- We then have threats issued against TIE which resulted in our going hidden and eventually leading up to this war.

So please look at it from TIE's perspective. We knew what FIRE originally discussed and planned months ago (to seek allies for the purposes of ending The Imperium's power & reign) - and then FIRE go and do exactly that - seeking & forming secret alliances - and then as the strength of themselves & their allies grow, The Imperium comes under more and more pressure ingame (whether by farming, sabbing & assassinations against us, or via blantant provocations i.e. LI's personal policy) followed by increasing hostility along with threats which would inevitably provoke us into striking and starting a war.

The only way TIE's power & influence would be crippled is really in a war - where the coalition formed could decisively beat The Imperium and the military consequences would severely damage TIE's economy and military capacities... so after the war we d be stunted and severely weakened compared to our former position.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All of the above has become reality (you can't deny actual events - whether it be the formation of TOC or TIE eventually being forced to attack) - except TOC's come out of the war just as badly damaged proportionally as TIE (maybe even more).

Then on top of all of this we have more than 3 TOCmember's who are/were HCs within their respective T.O.C alliances saying this was planned all along...

Why do you think, given the actual events following the plan placed down by LI months ago, coupled with more than 3 TOC HC member's saying the plan never was abondoned - that TIE should not believe this?

The burden of proof rests on T.O.C to disprove the above.....

Edit: I won't reveal the identities of the TOC members to protect them btw.

There's a lot of inolved people who post in this "non-aligned" people topic. I've scanned through Vesper's post and there are some points where I think his desciption of events does not match the truth as I experienced it.
1) I am not aware of any attempts to hack TIE's forum. The TIE forum hacking story was thought up by TIE in order to discredit cabal. I am relying on Ian's words as to the veracity of this statement.
2) FIRE's forum was hacked by Vesper. This was witnessed by Hai-Shulud. The hack was not doctored by Ishurue, it was real. It is true though that Ishurue deleted the forum as we were unable to get the forum secured.
3) There was some discussion during this time with Dune, who was accused of being a TIE covert operative. He was also Fedaykin's 2IC, and their most actively participating HC member. Apparently Ishurue withheld information from Dune when the second hacking of the forum occurred and this caused Dune to take Fedaykin out of FIRE and into TIE.This is not meant to be an exhaustive list, but it does paint a different picture about some key events in the FIRE - TIE relationship.

So let me get this right, you are telling me that this war did not start as a ploy by Ishurue to dislodge T.I.E. from the #1 position in the rankings therefore causing Mujengan to become #1 in the rankings by using Kenzu & WR as meatshields, & Aworon & emperors to do the dirty work. But instead started due to issues that occured back during the T.I.E - WR(o) war around the first of the year? or have I completely missed something?...

Jiro wrote:There's a lot of inolved people who post in this "non-aligned" people topic. I've scanned through Vesper's post and there are some points where I think his desciption of events does not match the truth as I experienced it.
1) I am not aware of any attempts to hack TIE's forum. The TIE forum hacking story was thought up by TIE in order to discredit cabal. I am relying on Ian's words as to the veracity of this statement.
2) FIRE's forum was hacked by Vesper. This was witnessed by Hai-Shulud. The hack was not doctored by Ishurue, it was real. It is true though that Ishurue deleted the forum as we were unable to get the forum secured.
3) There was some discussion during this time with Dune, who was accused of being a TIE covert operative. He was also Fedaykin's 2IC, and their most actively participating HC member. Apparently Ishurue withheld information from Dune when the second hacking of the forum occurred and this caused Dune to take Fedaykin out of FIRE and into TIE.This is not meant to be an exhaustive list, but it does paint a different picture about some key events in the FIRE - TIE relationship.

1) There was indeed someone who tried to hack TIEs forums. It was me. I just couldn't get the hash code to write Oh well.

2) This is pretty much true

3) Bah. Me and ishurue knew Dune was a spy for quite some time actually. I wouldn't doubt that Ish withheld information from him but at the time most of our important info was put in the forums HC section. Starry was apparently just mad that ish withheld information from him and not told about the 2nd forum "attack". That is what took them out of FIRE.

What is it with people constantly trying to hack each other's private alliance forums, not to mention the the game itself? This is ridiculous.

This was before the game was hacked. A while before I think. Uni was giving away info about TIE so we thought that someone was hacking our forums because at the tiem TIE trusted all of their HC. Based off the time lapses and timestamps on the messages FIRE was recieveing we thought that someone was hacking into Haggis's account. He recently withdrew himself from the HC right before this started to happen. After speaking to haggis we started to think of other possibilities. At the time everyone in TIE including myself and Ian thought that TIE forums were hacked. Now I do not think that anyone actually managed to get through the defenses. TIE security definitely got boosted during this time.

I don't know all the politics or reasons behind this war, but I can say this,
kenzu has approached me multiply times as an alliance leader to become allied with them, offer protect (lol) i got a few friends in tie that would happily help protect me tbh (not that I need it, I maybe small but I am a warrior at heart).
Just before this war started I was approached again by someone in wr asking my alliance be allied with them (I am the only member of my alliance ATM lol) of which I declined, yes I admit Ian also asked me personally to join tie but that was after I approached him over a nap between my alliance and tie, yes I have one with fire as well (which was change so I could farm them during this war) which would help them and myself, deceiving maybe maybe not, really depends how you take that.
Yes a member of tie (not mentioning names) hired me to mass 1 wr member back before their war (hi zero ) but I have also hit around 10 people for a member of fire. Ian is a good guy and his words are very trust worthy, my mates in tie are not deceitful in anyway nor do they like it, so if tie were really that bad, they would not be there, nor would I be considering joining them when I return to this game properly.

Thought I should reveal that so it didn't come out later about either side

Korruption out

I just love reading about fedaykin! Mainly because I WAS 2IC before dune came along, yet I never get any attention! I was fedaykin's strongest(military) member, and I've never been massed. For some reasons, starryager never revealed to me why we left UUN and joined FIRE. Frankly, I never really cared. I was not what you would call "active". I just know that we switched sides a couple of times.

Now, the only old UUN(and fedaykin) members in TIE are endor and I.

I just thought I'd throw in this bit of information.