(TOC) vs (TIE)

Magnus wrote:

FarleShadow wrote:Seriously? Have you ever been outside of AW?

Seriously? I mean seriously. Seriously. SERIOUSLY?!

So that means I have to loose my manners right ? Just because everyone is doing it, right ?

its like having too much beer, you've either been drunk or you're ignorant of it.

FarleShadow wrote:

Magnus wrote:

FarleShadow wrote:Seriously? Have you ever been outside of AW?

Seriously? I mean seriously. Seriously. SERIOUSLY?!

So that means I have to loose my manners right ? Just because everyone is doing it, right ?

its like having too much beer, you've either been drunk or you're ignorant of it.

Nope not ignorant to it. Just do not feel like joining in on the ignorance and rudeness

ehm

Magnus wrote:

Spoiler:

Nope not ignorant to it. Just do not feel like joining in on the ignorance and rudeness

I think the point Farle was trying to make, is that one should not be shocked by rude or ignorant behavior on the internet. Not to mention, the proper place to discuss this is in private message. Not by derailing a thread being used for in game politics.

edit: I'm directing that last part specifically at you Magnus, but all the off topic comments the last few pages.

This topic has been derailed a couple of pages ago not by Magnus but by everyone ... seriously people ... And I agree with Magnus ... just cause others are doing it doesn't me he (or anyone else) should ... but hey I'm still just trying to be an optimist here...

How about some actual war numbers? Some kills? New impressive tactics used? New brutal assaults? Give me SOMETHING ... PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!111111oneoneone!!!!!

Seaborgium just knocked a bunch more enemy defences down a fair bit more:

Name: sandokan555 ID: 60
Before: Defensive Action: 3,045,415,760
After: Defensive Action: 1,751,092,630
Losses:
Supers: 68,512
Kuwal value: 43,710,656,000

Name: Thulkthayer ID: 303
Before: Defensive Action: 3,364,878,550
After: Defensive Action: 1,843,976,063
Losses:
Supers: 77,995
Kuwal value: 49,760,810,000

Name: R0B3RT ID: 595
Before: Defensive Action: 2,823,163,200
After: Defensive Action: 1,922,322,688
Losses:
Supers: 53,118
Kuwal value: 33,889,284,000

Total UU Killed: 199,625
Total Kuwal Value: 127,360,750,000

Nice job buddy

Ian my god man you forgot to mention what the other side did to themselfs

Curumo is the post above better now?

Very much so my friend! Good job

Magnus just reduced I0upain's defence down from 1.3billion & 96.5k defence supers to 393million defence power & 29,650 defence supers - a loss of 66,850 defence supers & IFV's - a loss of 33,358,150,000 kuwal's worth

stars wrote:I packed my things immediately to get ready to fly out to visit a beloved family members FUNERAL!

sorry to hear this man, my condolences

Longdraft had a defence of 1.258billion power - 111,642 defence supers and a combination of IFV'S/ Main Battle Tanks.

He's now down to 32,600 defence supers and a Defensive Action 367,399,305.

Thats 79,042 defence supers dead - 24,898,230,000 kuwal's worth
6,549 MBT's destroyed- 2,017,092,000 kuwal's worth
72,705 IFV's - 13,377,720,000 kuwal's worth

Total: 40,293,042,000 kuwal's worth.

I lost 42,858 attack supers + MBT's - 26,700,534,000 kuwal's worth.

UU Kill Ratio: 184.42%
Kuwal Kill Ratio: 150.90%

The below is NOT a complete list of the damage done - some extra attacks will have occurred (some which will be reported on the forum, some which won't have been).

The below listed attacks have been partially covered by previous posts on this thread - and the list contains only losses i m aware of (i.e. there will be other targets hit i don't know about):

Since 13.43 June the 29th ingame time:

Oakenbanshee had:

386,000 spies
263,000 assassins
23,000 defence supers & IFV's

He now has:

242,383 spies
59,780 assassins
0 Defence Forces.

Losses:

143,617 spies - 30,159,570,000 kuwal's worth
203,220 assassins - 42,676,200,000 kuwal's worth
23,000 supers & IFV's - 11,477,000,000 kuwal's worth.

Total: 369,837 Army Size & 84,312,770,000 kuwal's worth. Keep in mind this is AFTER his defence has already been reduced/ massed down.

Logaliff had:

150,000 defence supers & IFV's
252,000 assassins
252,000 spies.

Now he has:

95,303 defence supers & IFV's
252,000 assassins
252,000 spies.

Losses: 54,697 defence supers + IFV's - 27,293,803,000 kuwal's worth

Liquidforce had 300,000 spies. Now he has 93,412 spies.

Thats a loss of 206,588 spies - 43,383,480,000 kuwal's worth

SilverRose had:

106,000 defence supers & IFV's
189,000 assassins
154,000 spies

Now he has:

73,802 defence supers & IFV's
190,000 assassins
155,000 spies

Thats a loss of 32,198 defence supers + IFV's - 16,066,802,000 kuwal's worth

Smog had:

57,459 defence supers & IFV's/ MBT's
250,000 assassins
250,000 spies.

Now he has:

26,581 defence supers & IFV's/ MBT's
112,496 asssassins
250,000 spies.

Thats a loss of:

30,878 Defence Supers & IFV's/MBT's - 15,408,122,000 kuwal's worth (assuming all IFV's)
137,504 assassins - 28,875,840,000 kuwal's worth

I0upain had:

76,777 defence supers & IFV's
200,000 assassins
95,500 spies

Now he has:

29,517 defence supers & IFV's
200,000 assassins
95,500 spies

Thats a loss of

47,260 defence supers + IFV's - 23,582,740,000 kuwal's worth

slambot#4 had:

97,201 defence supers & IFV's
240,703 assassins
233,444 spies

Now he has:

43,859 defence supers & IFV's
240,703 assassins
233,444 spies

Thats a loss of 53,342 defence supers + IFV's - 26,617,658,000 kuwal's worth.

Longdraft had:

111,642 defence supers
172,000 assassins
182,000 spies

Now he has:

32,600 defence supers
172,000 assassins
182,000 spies

Thats a loss of 79,042 defence supers dead - 24,898,230,000 kuwal's worth.

Freethinker94 had:

31million power defence (so virtually no defence)
260,605 assassins
526,862 spies
He also had 158,000+ UU out.

He now has:

48,616 assassins
187,825 spies
24,771 UU out.

Thats a loss of:

211,989 assassins - 44,517,690,000 kuwal's worth
339,037 spies - 71,197,770,000 kuwal's worth

Total: 551,026 army size & 115,715,460,000 kuwal's worth. This isn't including the 125k+ UU stolen.

Total T.O.C losses:

319,417 defence supers & IFV's/MBT's - 159,389,083,000 kuwal's worth.
527,713 assassins - 110,819,730,000 kuwal's worth
689,242 spies - 144,740,820,000 kuwal's worth

Add in Seaborgium's hits below:

ian wrote:Seaborgium just knocked a bunch more enemy defences down a fair bit more:

Name: sandokan555 ID: 60
Before: Defensive Action: 3,045,415,760
After: Defensive Action: 1,751,092,630
Losses:
Supers: 68,512
Kuwal value: 43,710,656,000

Name: Thulkthayer ID: 303
Before: Defensive Action: 3,364,878,550
After: Defensive Action: 1,843,976,063
Losses:
Supers: 77,995
Kuwal value: 49,760,810,000

Name: R0B3RT ID: 595
Before: Defensive Action: 2,823,163,200
After: Defensive Action: 1,922,322,688
Losses:
Supers: 53,118
Kuwal value: 33,889,284,000

Total UU Killed: 199,625
Total Kuwal Value: 127,360,750,000

Nice job buddy

That brings it to:

Total T.O.C losses:

519,042 defence supers & IFV's/MBT's - 286,749,833,000 kuwal's worth.
527,713 assassins - 110,819,730,000 kuwal's worth
689,242 spies - 144,740,820,000 kuwal's worth

Total Army Size Lost: 1,735,997
Total Kuwal Value Destroyed: 542,310,383,000

Remember... this is *reported* hits done in the last 48hours alone - and does NOT include hits done before then or hits which have been conducted which I m not aware of.

The Imperium has been conducting operations like the above for a fair amount of time now - and inflicting steady losses like the above.

Many of our attacks go unreported simply because they are comparitively "small" (i.e. in comparison to the massing of TIE members, or our massing of "strong" TOC members) - but as the above clearly illustrates, you don't need to target a strong or large player for there to be extensive losses. The smaller hits simply add up.

I m also fairly confident The Coalition of Chaos's leadership (namely Kenzu) keeps telling everyone who will listen that T.O.C are winning this war and have never once failed to mention/ provide a window of insight into attacks like the above happening on a daily basis (or at least every 2 or 3 days).

I actually have my suspicions that they do not even fully understand or grasp the sheer scale of the losses they are sufferring - or the gradual erosion of their members account's over-time by various "small" but numerous attacks.

There;s no doubt the Imperium Empire is sustaining VERY heavy losses in this war. But equally there is absolutely zero doubt that T.O.C is sustaining MASSIVE losses as well.

There's also absolutely zero doubt that if the war continues The Imperium Empire will prevail - simply because long after our large accounts have fallen T.O.C will continue to be a target rich environment which we can kill so much off, while T.O.C will have to put up with The Imperium's "rebuilt" accounts to target again - something which the massings inflict far smaller losses on vs. the "original" massings.

The above was just against 12 T.O.C players - and only 3 of those had their assassins hunted & 2 of them their spies assassinated - the rest have yet to loose their remaining defences or otherwise have spies/ assassins killed.

This example should give an idea on just what T.O.C has to loose in a long-term war with The Imperium Empire. The above players are not "special" players or "different" - they are simply run of the mill T.O.C players randomly picked out of the T.O.C empire to next be targetted.

TIE has a lot to loose in a long-term war... but the sheer level of resources we stand to loose pales in comparison to T.O.C's potential losses - which TIE has clearly illustrated time and time again we are capable of inflicting....

Long Live The Imperium!

@ian
Your nice posts neglects that TOC bears no real losses from your massing of inactive members. You wasted a lot of resources for nothing. Some of your victories are what can be described with two simple words: Epic fail

Same thing with farming and raiding from inactives.

@stars
As I can see from a TOCs assault logs, your wounds healed already.

stars wrote:Although I have been told, I will be left alone for the meantime. I come online through my cellphone to bank, and all of a sudden I see I have been massed by 5+ people including CASTRAVETE himself. Enjoy for now, while I heal emotionally. I will be back and assure you the damage dealt will be remembered, during my roughest hours.

But somehow you targeted people who did nothing to you. You say one thing, do another.

stars wrote:I will promise you to not quit this game. One thing I will promise you and all your buddies for taking advantage, and DISDAINING MY EMOTIONS. As you disgrace yourself and you disgrace everyone around you. I hope you feel proud of being the biggest idiot in the world, especially since you say I was crying? I asked for some sympathy for 2 DAYS, as I am on a plane HEADING TO A FUNERAL. I guess all that doesnt mean dung to you.

stars wrote:I DO NOT CARE IF THIS WAR ENDS. THOSE WHO GAVE ME NO SYMPATHY YET TOOK ADVANTAGE, I WILL NOT LET THEM PASS! For all of those others who left me be for the short time I requested I will no longer attack you.

Interesting. There are at least 2 TOC members who you have assaulted by you on 1st July 2010, in fact, you took the most effort at massing them, compared to the other TIE members, and they have not attacked you a single time.

I guess your promises are worthless. Do you really think there is a need for fairy tales?

stars wrote:Ok let me just add this for everyone, Logging in to ADERANWARS on a mobile PHONE BLOWS HORRIBLY! Secondly the reason I could not get on protection or what not IS STRICTLY DUE TO EMERGENCY AIRPLANE PURCHASE. I packed my things immediately to get ready to fly out to visit a beloved family members FUNERAL! so if you were going to tell me all these things then well be it. I respect all of you who kept with HONOR. But surely for those who have not, will surely be dealt with and not let go. YOU CAN SEE I NEVER REBUILD ANYTHING, during the time I said I WAS GOING ON LEAVE. I DID NOT INTENSIONALLY BULLSHIT TO THE ENTIRE SERVER THAT I LEFT THE WAR. I left honorably, did not rebuild a strike or anything to HARM ANYONE during this time.

[01 Jul] 19:01 stars 3663 4931 2,328,128,233 2,320,740,791
[01 Jul] 19:01 stars 3660 5281 2,480,303,133 2,305,351,215
[01 Jul] 19:00 stars 4133 5008 2,206,989,180 2,426,945,639
...

but now you have.
These are assaults you have done on one TOC member. There were much more than three, obviously.

This means that there is no more grace period for you.

So kenzu let me get this straight... Stars asked for peace so he can attend a funeral. ToC masses him. Then, he masses them back in retaliation and then you insult him for it saying he is the dishonorable one?

I can't even comprehend what kind of childhood you must have had...

Vesper wrote:So kenzu let me get this straight... Stars asked for peace so he can attend a funeral. ToC masses him. Then, he masses them back in retaliation and then you insult him for it saying he is the dishonorable one?

I can't even comprehend what kind of childhood you must have had...

No, he didn't mass back in Retaliation.
I checked the logs and I didn't find a single person from WR hitting stars.

Retaliation is hitting someone who hit you.
Assaulting WR members, who did nothing to him, AFTER he made a promise not to hit those who didn't hit him before makes him a person of poor character. He truly has no honor.

I see it was a big mistake that I agreed not to attack him.
I will not make that mistake again.

Kenzu wrote:

Vesper wrote:So kenzu let me get this straight... Stars asked for peace so he can attend a funeral. ToC masses him. Then, he masses them back in retaliation and then you insult him for it saying he is the dishonorable one?

I can't even comprehend what kind of childhood you must have had...

No, he didn't mass back in Retaliation.
I checked the logs and I didn't find a single person from WR hitting stars.

Retaliation is hitting someone who hit you.
Assaulting WR members, who did nothing to him, AFTER he made a promise not to hit those who didn't hit him before makes him a person of poor character. He truly has no honor.

I see it was a big mistake that I agreed not to attack him.
I will not make that mistake again.

All is fair in love and war.

Nigatsu_Aka wrote:

Kenzu wrote:

Vesper wrote:So kenzu let me get this straight... Stars asked for peace so he can attend a funeral. ToC masses him. Then, he masses them back in retaliation and then you insult him for it saying he is the dishonorable one?

I can't even comprehend what kind of childhood you must have had...

No, he didn't mass back in Retaliation.
I checked the logs and I didn't find a single person from WR hitting stars.

Retaliation is hitting someone who hit you.
Assaulting WR members, who did nothing to him, AFTER he made a promise not to hit those who didn't hit him before makes him a person of poor character. He truly has no honor.

I see it was a big mistake that I agreed not to attack him.
I will not make that mistake again.

All is fair in love and war.

Yeah I know.
TIE should at least not be criticising Castravete, since they do such things too (and it's not the first time they did it).

Kenzu wrote:

Vesper wrote:So kenzu let me get this straight... Stars asked for peace so he can attend a funeral. ToC masses him. Then, he masses them back in retaliation and then you insult him for it saying he is the dishonorable one?

I can't even comprehend what kind of childhood you must have had...

No, he didn't mass back in Retaliation.
I checked the logs and I didn't find a single person from WR hitting stars.

Retaliation is hitting someone who hit you.
Assaulting WR members, who did nothing to him, AFTER he made a promise not to hit those who didn't hit him before makes him a person of poor character. He truly has no honor.

I see it was a big mistake that I agreed not to attack him.
I will not make that mistake again.

Kenzu this post pretty much summarises just how much BS you, T.O.C and World Republic is. Your a EMPIRE for god's sake. That means taking responsibility for the actions of ALL your members and associates who belong in this empire. You can't just pick and choose when you take responsibility for those actions when its convenient or not. World Republic and yourself may not have massed Stars when he was attending the funeral - but others of YOUR empire did. That means their actions are on behalf of you & WR.

How many times have you posted in this thread claiming "T.O.C massed XXX" - yet its later transpired WR was not involved in the massing at all? Seaborgium posted only a couple of pages back one such example (i think it may have been SA47's massing). You seemed happy enough to take responsibility for all the credit then - yet now when Stars masses T.O.C member's back in response to their massing him while he's at a funeral, you try to wash your & WR's hands of ALL responsibility for T.O.C's massing of him - thereby trying to make Stars look like an asshole for retaliating against WR? Lets also not even consider the distinct possibility that T.O.C massed him using funds gained from WR members... which alone is enough for WR to be massed back.

Your truly pathetic. You honestly are. Slugs wriggle and try to slime their way out of stuff less than you do - they also have more of a backbone as well.

Perhaps one day you ll learn to start taking responsibility for your actions and those of your members (whether in WR or T.O.C as a whole). Perhaps you ll one day learn that for every action there is a consequence - both good and bad & maybe, just maybe, one day you ll learn to accept those consequences - or at the very least take action to prevent a continous loop of the same consequences happening again.

In the first WR war you whined because The Imperium Empire struck WR in response to your aggression against us - namely your firing the first shots by massing me & before that your various lies and attempts to infiltrate TIE (which i ll remind you when asked of why you did it - you responded to sow discord and spread paranoia in our ranks).

In the second WR war you whined because The Imperium Empire struck you for your breaking the peace treaty via not revealing the identity of WR spies & for your contacting new players and telling them how bad and nasty TIE is (thereby PROVING you didn't grasp the whole "responsibility" concept taught from the previous war).

You ve whined repeatedly in this war because The Imperium Empire struck TOC in response to your threats, accusations, sabbing & assassinating against us - and in response to T.O.C preparing for war and telling their strike team players to get online (albeit you eventually decided NOT to attack - but unfortunately for you guys the last TIE heard from our friends in T.O.C was you were planning to attack).

You ve even now whined on 2 separate occasions when Stars has massed WR - He's in a ENEMY alliance and YOU and WR is HIS enemy - what the hell do you expect?!?!?!

I ve done many thing's morally wrong & dubious on this game. T.I.E's done many thing's wrong and morally dubious on this game - but you will NEVER once find any of us winging about the consequences of our actions - or any of us denying our responsibility for those actions and thereby accepting the consequences.

Thats what truly separates us from you - we have the necessary spine and courage to take responsibility and accept the consequences of our actions. T.O.C apparently doesn't.

On a side note... if you still have delusions about T.O.C being the "United Nations" of Aderan War's, i think your going to be gravely disappointed. You may just find many of the alliances not yet involved in this war either don't care about what happens with TIE & T.O.C, views T.O.C as being equally as "bad" as T.I.E, or feels more in favour for T.I.E. Noone other than your blind sheep who follow you is fully buying the whole "Evil TIE" story you ve been trying to sell to the server....

Kenzu wrote:

Nigatsu_Aka wrote:

Kenzu wrote:

Vesper wrote:So kenzu let me get this straight... Stars asked for peace so he can attend a funeral. ToC masses him. Then, he masses them back in retaliation and then you insult him for it saying he is the dishonorable one?

I can't even comprehend what kind of childhood you must have had...

No, he didn't mass back in Retaliation.
I checked the logs and I didn't find a single person from WR hitting stars.

Retaliation is hitting someone who hit you.
Assaulting WR members, who did nothing to him, AFTER he made a promise not to hit those who didn't hit him before makes him a person of poor character. He truly has no honor.

I see it was a big mistake that I agreed not to attack him.
I will not make that mistake again.

All is fair in love and war.

Yeah I know.
TIE should at least not be criticising Castravete, since they do such things too (and it's not the first time they did it).

Here's the difference between Castravete and Stars since your seemingly too thick to notice it.

Castravete on 2 separate occasions requested he be permitted to surrender to The Imperium and withdraw from the war. On both occassions we accepted, and on both occasions he re-entered the war WITHOUT a single shot being fired by T.I.E at him AFTER he requested withdrawal from the war.

Stars on the other hand requested to be left alone for 2 days while he attended a funeral. T.O.C went and happily massed him knowing he was at a funeral of a loved one, without his firing a single shot at T.O.C after requesting being left alone. Since T.O.C has thereby decided he's still in the war (the decision becoming apparent when you massed him), he's now continuing that war by massing T.O.C back.

How the hell are the 2 even remotely similar? On one hand you have Castravate being the aggressor (seeking war) against T.I.E - not once, but on 2 different occasions - and on the other hand T.O.C jumping at the first opportunity to mass Stars after he requested to be left alone.... and now you trying to sell to the server how "bad" and "dishonourable" Stars is for daring to strike back at T.O.C... and comparing his conduct (AFTER T.O.C massed him) with someone who on 2 seperate occasions actively went and rejoined war against T.I.E (AFTER we d agreed to peace with him).

I haven't a clue what goes on in your head.... and I agree with Vesper - you must have had one hell of a childhood if this logic and thinking is the result of that upbringing....

The fact you seemingly have no problem with trying to make Stars look like a bad and dishonourable person and attempting to publically humiliate him over his massing T.O.C back after you (T.O.C) massed him when he was at a funeral - and doing so knowing he's lost a loved one recently pretty much summarises your moral compass to be honest. This sort of thinking and willingness by T.O.C to try anything and everything - whether it be how they present "facts" and "information" to the server & their members, or their actual conduct - such as using Castravate to twice withdraw from the war to allow him to rebuild, or Lord Ishurue refusing to share (this was before the war) who in FIRE was responsible for the sabbings & assassinations against TIE is pretty much why T.I.E's gone to war in the first place... and why T.I.E will keep fighting for as long as necessary. You can't ever have an agreement with people who have less reliability and morals than a bunch of snakes...

People who write offensive posts usually lack intelligence.

Besides, BS, packaged in a nice long post, wrapped in lies and illusional thinking will still remain what it is.

Kenzu you're my friend and I have to be honest with you and ask/say: where was Ian offensive? The only person who I saw get offensive was Castravete, so you just indirectly called him a person with a low IQ, and most of us would agree. However, I ask yo how can you compare castra and stars again? Re-read please what Ian posted because I promise you it's not a ploy of some sorts - what he says about castra and stars and how it happened ... is the truth ... and I really and honestly cannot believe that you and your friends would ever support someone like him and sacrifice so much for such a person ...

I am truly at a loss here

Kenzu wrote:People who write offensive posts usually lack intelligence.

Besides, BS, packaged in a nice long post, wrapped in lies and illusional thinking will still remain what it is.

Usually your reply in a meaningful longer post, but really have no more words KENZU. I really do not. There really is nothing to say anymore. I guess this is the frame of mind you are in. Weird

Ian, castravete is not in The Order of Chaos last time I checked. I thought he was the one who attacked stars. If he is, I should probably welcome Vesper to TOC as well.

Castravete has attacked SA, Stars, and I am sure I am sure there are others.

Jiro the peace talks they keep pushing to have Castravete included as if he was in ToC. TIE keeps saying no, he left ToC and also asked for peace. and turned to the war 2 times. If not for Castravete at the time, SA def wouldn't have fallen. Had Castravete stayed in the war, he wouldn't have gotten that kind of strike and used it. Just as Aworon did. He tried to build a strike, he did get to use it just not the same as Castravete did.

Where as vesper did sab 1 time(thats all i know of as of right now).

Kenzu wrote:People who write offensive posts usually lack intelligence.

Besides, BS, packaged in a nice long post, wrapped in lies and illusional thinking will still remain what it is.

Fantastic response Kenzu... really brilliant - fair do's you ve really outdone yourself there buddy.

For everyone else: Simply saying something is BS, long and wrapped in lies and illusional thinking without pointing out just where it is supposedly this, or not contesting a single statement to support such a point does not make it actually lies, illusional thinking or BS.

To put it into another perspective if I were to say "I m a millionaire and king of Britain!" and If we then applied Kenzu's logic and reasoning above this would make me a millionaire and king of Britain... something I m clearly not.

I ll offer a counterpoint for everyone to consider: Someone who states something very vague and overarching and general without anything to refer to/ point to, to support such a statement normally resorts to it as a last resort due to being otherwise unable to counter points raised against them. Its not dissimilar to a situation where a criminal who's being accused of threatening someone with unlawful force by the prosecution, where the prosecution has made a strong argument that the defendant stated what he did and where there is numerous witnesses to the chain of events which happened - then responds back in defence with simply saying "Thats BS. Lies and illusional thinking".

On AW - I ll leave you all to decide for yourselves whether or not what i ve said is lies or delusional thinking. Each of you has (I m assuming) being following this topic as it develops, and each of you has therefore witnessed the chain of events.... your all capable of reaching your own conclusions

Edit: Incidentally Kenzu's claim about the players we massed being inactive is also not true. 1 or 2 of them *may* have been temporarily inactive, or may not have logged in for a day or 2 - but given they ALL had defences it therefore means they AREN'T inactive given if they had been for a decent amount of time they d have surely had much smaller defences than they did... Many of those players have infact appeared in TIE's logs during this war (i.e. Freethinker94) attacking us.... so they certainly can't be counted as inactive.

Again... simply saying something (in the hopes of "neutralising" the points raised by a opponent) does not simply make it true....