Nerfing Hualu (once again)

Current Bonus:
- NO Bank Fees Charged
- Weapon Advancements 3% LESS expensive
- Spy Skill Advancements 3% LESS expensive
- Assassin Skill Advancements 3% LESS expensive
- Basic Covert Technologies 3% LESS expensive
- Basic Defense Technologies 3% LESS expensive
- Basic Attack Technologies 3% LESS expensive
- Basic Assassin Technologies 3% LESS expensive
Total bonus:
15% cheaper advancements
20% cheaper technologies
0% bank fees

Proposed Bonus:
- 0.5% of Bank Deposits lost as Fees
- Weapon Advancements 2% LESS expensive
- Spy Skill Advancements 2% LESS expensive
- Assassin Skill Advancements 2% LESS expensive
- Basic Covert Technologies 2% LESS expensive
- Basic Defense Technologies 2% LESS expensive
- Basic Attack Technologies 2% LESS expensive
- Basic Assassin Technologies 2% LESS expensive
Total bonus:
12% cheaper advancements
14% cheaper technologies
0.5% bank fees

Reasoning:
Of the people who logged in, in the last 2 days:
50.5% are hualu
21% are miraya
14.3% are kyora
13.5% are daning

Considering no bank fees, is the trademark of the hualu race, for now, I left it for the most part, however there are issues with it as it is too powerful imo. So i'm kinda searching for good alternatives.

I disagree!

Instead of making Hualu weaker, make all other races stronger.

Reason: We dont want to keep weakening all races all the time depending on who has the most players, because we would end up with races having tiny bonuses.

Instead of weakening a race by from 100% to 70%
make all other races stronger by 42.85%

Difference in bonus will be the same in percentage (Math), but the absolute bonuses will have a bigger average value.

I agree that hualu is quite unbalanced compared to the others. If it didn't cost so much (And was actualy possible, my bank is too small atm) I would change to them.

-Alex

In light of what Kenzu said, maybe you could lower bank fees for the other races? It has the same effect, except it doesn't annoy people, but actually makes them happy.
Problem with banking is not that banking is costly, but that you don't have time to bank all your outstanding Kuwal and bank size is limited. So there will always be unprotected money to chase, even with no banking fees in the game.

ok i must me missing something

Code:

Total bonus:
15% cheaper advancements
20% cheaper technologies
0% bank fees

how is it 15% if there's 4 techs and you get 3% off each?

I don't really think its going to change anything. People just like the "balanced" race over the specialty races.

I would say drop the advancements and the techs, but do like Jiro said and decrease the bank fees for other races over increasing Hualu's.

I chose this race for zero bank fees. That's the only reason I changed to hualu. Considering you're changing the hualu's trademark ability, can we get a free race change?

Sandwalker wrote:I chose this race for zero bank fees. That's the only reason I changed to hualu. Considering you're changing the hualu's trademark ability, can be get a free race change?

If they are nerfed I do think it would be appropriate.

hence the idea that I'm looking for alternatives other than the no bank fees.

cos main problem is that if i remove no bank fees on their own, I'll need to change the bonuses to something like

- Weapon Advancements 7,5% LESS expensive
- Spy Skill Advancements 10% LESS expensive
- Assassin Skill Advancements 10% LESS expensive
- Basic Covert Technologies 7,5% LESS expensive
- Basic Defense Technologies 7,5% LESS expensive
- Basic Attack Technologies 7,5% LESS expensive
- Basic Assassin Technologies 7,5% LESS expensive

otherwise most people will have no reason to actually be hualu.
Then again, the bank fees is really something that's hard to balance

Edit: About the free race change, coming from you two, I'm surprised you guys actually mention it as if it wouldnt be obvious already.

Not really, not to me.

Some people like strike, some defense, some covert. Better income use(no bank fees) is the same. if your going to remove it then just remove it.

hualu bonuses should then just be greater then all other races in total. You can either be balanced or a specialty.

You might as well make it free for Hualu players to switch to a different race within the next 2 days. Other players will not be allowed to switch and amount of Hualu players will drop.

Let us do that first and then we will see if changes are needed.

Jiro wrote:In light of what Kenzu said, maybe you could lower bank fees for the other races? It has the same effect, except it doesn't annoy people, but actually makes them happy.
Problem with banking is not that banking is costly, but that you don't have time to bank all your outstanding Kuwal and bank size is limited. So there will always be unprotected money to chase, even with no banking fees in the game.

I think bank is too small. I recommend increasing basic bank size, so that it can hold 7 days of income.
Obviously if you increase bank size, you can have more kuwal, but I know that a lot of new players are unable to make the next weapon research even if they want to do only because their bank is too small and they dont know there is a posibility to increase bank size

PS: i am against removing bank fees.

There are options to increase the bank size tho, I see no need to make the limitation useless. Thats the point of a bank, you need to grow in size to increase your bank to be able to afford stuff.

Look at the other end of the spectrum, how large are the biggest banks now? if you increase them even more then how many more upgrades can they buy putting them even further ahead?

I personally never saw the need for bank fees to begin with. really, what pourpose do they serve? I dont know how many times I have withdrawn onlt to find something wrong and have to deposit again until I could fix it. Why should I lose 2% of XXXbill kewal for something like that? it makes no sense to me.

Hm. While it wounds my Hualu pride to say, most players who have experience elsewhere will pick the balanced race over any one of the specialty races. Unless they're masochistic, or 'just that good' (don't laugh, it happens).
The rest, just pick the prettiest picture. And let's have it out in the open.. Hualu's Dragon is just *the* best of the lot. *grin*

Yeah but I just really love covert, hence my race.
I would change in a heartbeat if it was a 1:1 "cost to change" <-> "what I have saved" to Hualu

-Alex

Admin wrote:
Edit: About the free race change, coming from you two, I'm surprised you guys actually mention it as if it wouldnt be obvious already.

I was just saying it to say it. On my part, I might consider changing race on my own, even if the "no bank fees" isn't changed if the difference in bonuses becomes to big.

That's pretty obvious, I mean theoretically if i offered you a daning with 50% off weapon tech costs or hualu with no banking, i think it'd be easy to pick

Although slowly i'm drifting towards the idea that I'll remove free banking for hualu altogether
I still have no clear idea how to balance them with the other races

Expecting opinions on this setup:

Admin wrote:
- Weapon Advancements 7,5% LESS expensive
- Spy Skill Advancements 10% LESS expensive
- Assassin Skill Advancements 10% LESS expensive
- Basic Covert Technologies 7,5% LESS expensive
- Basic Defense Technologies 7,5% LESS expensive
- Basic Attack Technologies 7,5% LESS expensive
- Basic Assassin Technologies 7,5% LESS expensive

I myself would go back to my kyorans. Not because they're better than daning/miraya, but because I like the name, it's funny in romanian, chiorans ... chior being a person that either has impaired vision or only has one eye left.

What you propose though is OP, I believe. And certainly an insult to kyorans, giving hualu 10% decrease in cost, as opposed to kyoran 15%. Why would anyone switch from hualu? that 5% is easily recovered through the other bonuses in atk/def.

Actually, hualu would become awesome. End of story. x2.5 increases across the board from current bonuses, with 2 bonuses being increased 3.33 times. Hell yeah, that's what I'm talking bout. Now that I think of it, I would prefer those bonuses to the 2% bank fees.

you do realize it's not 2.5x increases.

a 3% discount on weapon tech to hualu equals to 5% discount on weapon tech to other races
You have to consider that you save 2% on the bank fees.
So going from 5% to 7.5% isn't that much if you think about it

I say keep the free banking and drop teh 3% savings. Then leave it at that.

I am sure(I didn't do the math) that the 2% savings is greater then the cost of the 3% savings. up to a point

Nerfing Hualu of the bank savings would un-balance them when compared with the other races. Either consider reducing the other bonus' but keep the bank deposit bonus, or remove it and add in a bonus to income or UP. Otherwise, why would they call Hualu a "balanced" Income race?

Straight out nerfing a race doesn't automatically mean everyone will just switch races due to the nerfs. If the nerfs are too crazy, in the long run, Hualu could turn into the "dead" race. Another part of the equation would be the idea that slight nerfs could make a difference in the long run, IF more players are recruited, and the game continues to grow.

Admin wrote:you do realize it's not 2.5x increases.

a 3% discount on weapon tech to hualu equals to 5% discount on weapon tech to other races
You have to consider that you save 2% on the bank fees.
So going from 5% to 7.5% isn't that much if you think about it

then give them 7 all over.

who has ever called hualu a balanced income race, first time i hear that in here

Personally i d vote leave Huala how it is... and decrease the other races bank fee's from 2% down to 1.5% and maybe increase their race benefits - as oppossed to making Huala weaker...

I have to admit the only reason I picked Hualu was for the free banking. Currency in games I play is constantly coming out and going back in to my banks. If you do remove the free banking could you either give another way to regain the free banking ability back? I could care less if you gave a "race" option whose only bonus was free banking. If that is what it took to keep my free banking then I would take that race in a heartbeat .